Help Best anti emetic regimen

[gingerplum]

Depends imo, l always thought PN's 60mg was a bit OTT when you consider possible side effects. Drinking N requires a steady hand, you can live without muscle spasms kicking in, so going too far above and beyond the recommended could be problematic for some.

That's fair. 60mg seems insane; I see no value added to taking such a huge dose. Overall though, meto is a pretty benign drug, and as far as I know, muscle spasms are a more unusual side effect. Then again, I can't speak to the risks of that high of a dose.

Edit: What I meant by "excessive" was the combined protocols of round the clock dosing *plus* a stat dose. But 60 mg in one dose? I wouldn't endorse that.

 

[Chinaski]

I tested meto and was definitely twitching, in fact my eye twitched routinely for days afterwards. Not a huge barrier to N ingestion obviously, but l wouldn't fancy spasming my way to death due to meto overkill.

 

[gingerplum]

I tested meto and was definitely twitching, in fact my eye twitched routinely for days afterwards. Not a huge barrier to N ingestion obviously, but l wouldn't fancy spasming my way to death due to meto overkill.

Good to know, and duly noted. I think most of the patients I've seen on meto are also on opiates for pain relief, and that probably mitigates any twitching/spasming.

 

[Arak]

I'm very sensitive to meto's 'neurological' effects.

Thinking of a combo of meto and domperidone.

 

[gingerplum]

I'm very sensitive to meto's 'neurological' effects.

Thinking of a combo of meto and domperidone.

I wonder if a benzo like Valium would help? It's used for muscle spasms

 

[TiredHorse]

I wonder if a benzo like Valium would help?

Would benzos interfere with N?

The more complex the cocktail, the more uncertain success becomes.

 

[gingerplum]

Would benzos interfere with N?

The more complex the cocktail, the more uncertain success becomes.

Well, I'm not sure if they actually potentiate each other, but remember, benzos were introduced as the "safer" version of barbiturates. They're both CNS depressants, and they typically shouldn't be mixed out of concern for respiratory failure.

On this forum, it's just a bonus ;)

 

[TiredHorse]

So long as the benzos don't restrict uptake of the more effective barbituate, great, but if they interfere with the N, that's not a bonus at all. I'd be worried about the benzos binding to the same receptors and negating rather than potentiating.

 

[gingerplum]

So long as the benzos don't restrict uptake of the more effective barbituate, great, but if they interfere with the N, that's not a bonus at all. I'd be worried about the benzos binding to the same receptors and negating rather than potentiating.

I don't think that's the case. Man alive, you are making me think ;)

So this article-- which appears to be written by PhD neurologists
for PhD neurologists-- suggests they potentiate each other.

Ok, granted, it's in rats, but human brains and rat brains have more parallels than you think.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8396370/

 

[Justanotherconsumer]

I just dont see any upside to taking benzos, after drinking something that makes you fall asleep in five minutes flat. Though i guess i could be helpfull in dealing with the stress of impending death.

I think the idea with the regimine is 2 fold, seeing how meto effects you as it may cause nausea as a side effect, And blocking the receptors in the digestive tract, though i believe most euthanasia clinics use the stat dose in liquid form, if your taking pills allow another 1/2 hour so they can dissolve and digest. We never get to see the whole process of "n" as all the videos stop when the person falls asleep, the pph does say a small percentage can take up to 24 hrs. To die.

 

[gingerplum]

I just dont see any upside to taking benzos, after drinking something that makes you fall asleep in five minutes flat. Though i guess i could be helpfull in dealing with the stress of impending death.

I think the idea with the regimine is 2 fold, seeing how meto effects you as it may cause nausea as a side effect, And blocking the receptors in the digestive tract, though i believe most euthanasia clinics use the stat dose in liquid form, if your taking pills allow another 1/2 hour so they can dissolve and digest. We never get to see the whole process of "n" as all the videos stop when the person falls asleep, the pph does say a small percentage can take up to 24 hrs. To die.

The benzo reference was just kind of an aside in response to potential muscle spasms secondary to metoclopramide.

I was overthinking it.

 

[Idorus]

The rat study confirms:

Wozz (see link @Jupiter) ; What we do know is that no one has ever woken up after taking 6 grams of a barbiturate provided no life-saving treatment had been started. If the intention of the combination was to speed up death, the committee would recommend either to take more than 6 grams of barbiturates or to add 300 mg of a long-acting benzodiazepines (Chapter 2.2.7).

I asked A about his anti-emetic regime compared to my 25-h one and he confirmed mine would be even better (so he didn't give his' much thought obviously)

 

[gingerplum]

The rat study confirms:

Wozz (see link @Jupiter) ; What we do know is that no one has ever woken up after taking 6 grams of a barbiturate provided no life-saving treatment had been started. If the intention of the combination was to speed up death, the committee would recommend either to take more than 6 grams of barbiturates or to add 300 mg of a long-acting benzodiazepines (Chapter 2.2.7).

I asked A about his anti-emetic regime compared to my 25-h one and he confirmed mine would be even better (so he didn't give his' much thought obviously)

Who knows. There seem to be conflicting reports about who A is and what he actually does. I dunno. Everyone should definitely do their own research for sure.

 

[Jupiter]

I asked A about his anti-emetic regime compared to my 25-h one and he confirmed mine would be even better (so he didn't give his' much thought obviously)

Thank you for that. But keep in mind that A might have never been present at a euthanasia of a human being. And it seems (to me) that A says a lot of things just to calm people down. I can imagine he is bombarded with dozens of emails on a daily basis. The same questions over and over again. And maybe he just gave up giving lengthy answers. But I'm still very thankful that A exists. He is the only reliable source in the whole world at the moment.

 

[Hunter]

I wonder if a benzo like Valium would help? It's used for muscle spasms

If I had motor movement side effects I'd opt for Domperidone and test it against a liquid that would typically make me vomit. I would also add in additional Ondansetron to compensate for it being slightly weaker. I did this once when I was too scared to take Meto and it worked well.

 

[Jupiter]

I tested meto and was definitely twitching, in fact my eye twitched routinely for days afterwards. Not a huge barrier to N ingestion obviously, but l wouldn't fancy spasming my way to death due to meto overkill.

What I don't understand is how metos calm down the stomach but cause twitching/spasms at the same time. Seems contradictory to me.

 

[Chinaski]

What I don't understand is how metos calm down the stomach but cause twitching/spasms at the same time. Seems contradictory to me.

Just standard side effects of drugs l guess, has different affect on different people, in the same way diazepam is supposed to relax you but has a not uncommon side effect of brain zaps and night terrors.

 

[gingerplum]

Just standard side effects of drugs l guess, has different affect on different people, in the same way diazepam is supposed to relax you but has a not uncommon side effect of brain zaps and night terrors.

Well, meto affects GI contractility, so the muscle spasms make sense. But the Valium... maybe the guys at La Roche just thought the irony would be hilarious. Those scamps.

 

[Arak]

Any place for Zofran or similar drugs ? Dignitas doesn´t use those.

 

[gingerplum]

Any place for Zofran or similar drugs ? Dignitas doesn´t use those.

Zofran works in a different way, on different neural receptors. Antiemetics aren't always interchangeable; stick with Dignitas' recs.

 

[Chinaski]

Well, meto affects GI contractility, so the muscle spasms make sense. But the Valium... maybe the guys at La Roche just thought the irony would be hilarious. Those scamps.

Apparently some folk have suffered vomiting as a side effect of meto too, which is why it should be tested on a dry run first.

 

[gingerplum]

Apparently some folk have suffered vomiting as a side effect of meto too, which is why it should be tested on a dry run first.

Wow. I don't even know what the recommended intervention is for nausea & vomiting caused by an antiemetic.

 

[Tidus]

Apparently some folk have suffered vomiting as a side effect of meto too, which is why it should be tested on a dry run first.

There I think the 24/25h before regimen makes sense

 

[Goldie]

Wow thanks for all this information, it is all very helpful. In the country I am in Primperan (meto) should be available over-the-counter. I am nervous about what to say as why I need it. I had read elsewhere here that simply saying I get sea-sick should be OK. Is meto the right type of anti E for being sea-sick? May the pharmacist decide to give me Zofran instead which is perhaps not as strong?

What are some good things to say to a pharmacist as to why anti E / meto are needed?

EDIT: From looking at Chinaski's link I an see that travel sickness is not the same as drug-induced vomiting and this would not work at all.

 

[Jupiter]

What are some good things to say to a pharmacist as to why anti E / meto are needed.

I would say that you are going on a long distance flight to xy. And from experience you get nausea and already tried Primperan and that it worked well. Be careful, Primperan may have a different name in your country. If the pharmacist is reluctant tell him you tried different stuff and it didn't work (get slightly angry when saying that but not too much). But you have to make sure that you don't need a prescription in your country. The pharmacist won't give you Primperan no matter how determined you are.
But why not order it from eBay? It's very easy.

 

[ddutch]

Dr. Admiral's best option Take 10 mg Metoclopramide every 8 hours, i.e. 3 times per day, starting at least 36 hours in advance. Take the last dose of Metoclopramide 45 min before the drug ingestion.

That is what i prefer also with a big scoop of honey before drinking the N. Just to Cover the mouth to get it in and make sure i dont have to much taste of N.

 

[Stoner]

I found some more conflicting info. I'm trying to decide between stat dose and 2 day regimen too. For the 2 day routine the wiki link says: "Do not exceed the suggested amount and do not cut down the suggested interval under any circumstances, since this may increase risk of EPS or failure." But the pph says with this routine you don't have to sync the doses to the tee. It says every 8 hours though. So what about taking it before you go to bed and if you sleep over 8 hours?

I was going to do the 2 day plan, because I rationalized that taking more anti emetics over a longer period of time would provide more reassurance against barfing, but I don't know that for sure.

And the wiki link says to take honey and pepto bismol before N. What do you think of that?

 

[Tidus]

And the wiki link says to take honey and pepto bismol before N. What do you think of that?

Honey should cover Your mouth for the bitter taste of N. Maybe thats really a good idea, to eat one teaspoon of honey, before drinking the N.

Ah DDutch already answered the honey-question in the post above yours. Appreciate your information as always DDutch.

 

[Stoner]

Honey should cover Your mouth for the bitter taste of N. Maybe thats really a good idea, to eat one teaspoon of honey, before drinking the N.

Ah DDutch already answered the honey-question in the post above yours. Appreciate your information as always DDutch.

I saw that a few people have said they will eat honey before. I guess I was asking more about the pepto bismol. The wiki says have it with the honey. But I haven't heard anyone else say they will have pepto bismol before N.

 

[Crash]

I just received my anti emetics yesterday but reading this topic this is the first time i've heard of effects like twitching or vomiting caused by the anti-e and it scares me a little. I have only 20 pills of 10mg (so 200mg), I don't know how to plan the pre-drinking N, can anyone shed some light on it for me ?