Been reading a goodbye thread:

[fightingsioux]

I am surprised by all the deeply religious people on this forum. Surveys say that religion--a superstitious, unverified, illogical belief in gods and an afterlife--is rapidly declining among younger people. Those surveys must be wrong. That is so great to see!

"Have a good journey", "see you in paradise", "see you on the other side", "I wish you an afterlife of peace", "sleep well", "I hope you made it", "hope to meet someday", "I'll be joining you soon", "safe travels". It's all so sweet, so heartwarming! It makes the whole thing seem like a trip to Disneyland. No wonder people just can't wait!

Not one person saying that when you're alive you're alive, and when you're dead you're dead. Dead as in dead. You don't go anywhere, you're not happy or peaceful, you're not traveling or journeying or sailing or floating in the clouds somewhere with wings and a halo smoking a joint. You're not waiting for others to join you. You're stone cold dead. It's over, that's it. Not one person even hinting at this...wow...I am really shocked. How wonderful!

And the body itself. How wrong I've been about that! There is no stink, no blood, no bodily fluids, no shit. No one has to see a blue-black corpse covered in flies. No one has to handle it, move it, bury or burn it. There is no smell! Absolutely no smell! In reality, it's just like when they transport someone in a Star Trek movie: a blurry mass of pixels and you disappear. It's like you never existed! Amazing! That is so reassuring to know.

It really makes me feel ashamed--and rather inadequate--to say that when I die I'm merely going to be dead. Like a cow, like a dog, like a worm, like a fly, like a protozoa. All chemical and electrical processes ended, just a 175-pound sack of meat. Gosh, just saying it sounds so depressing, so final.

But then again I'm 71, ill and ready to go, no fear of death. I've seen actual dead bodies, I'm not romanticizing the whole subject, I'm not fooling around. I don't know, maybe the thought that suicide makes you dead...really dead...dead dead...is kind of scary. It might even make some people think twice ( I don't mean anyone on this forum, don't get me wrong, we're hardcore realists.)

So sorry for being such a downer and a party pooper. It's great to see that those statistics are wrong, that most young people still feel that death is simply an enchanted magical mystery ride into a rainbow afterlife. It's changed my whole attitude...why...it now sounds like fun!

(Hope I don't get banned for this, just trying to express my wonder and admiration.)

 

[Malletboy]

I'm not religious so I don't have many thoughts on the afterlife. I hope that there is some amazing place after this but I also have come to terms with the finality of ctb. I don't think there's anything wrong with life just being done. It's comforting to know that even with just death that there is one less person suffering.

 

[Hydrokhoos]

I guess I can't speak for everyone on this site, but I'm not religious. I personally don't see it as someone going to a paradise or any of the things you described. In my daily life I'm so depressed, I'm so exhausted, I'm so tired of crying, I'm so tired of getting my hopes up that something will go right and then it all falling apart, that death IS peace. Just the simple concept of death seems like paradise because I never have to feel this awful again. Maybe it is romanticizing suicide. Maybe that is problematic. But when someone uses their right to bodily autonomy and decides it's their time to go, I don't see why we shouldn't say comforting words for them to read in their final moments after a lifetime of misery.

Edit: After reading more replies, I want to add that exactly what you're posting is what I think we're all counting on. But what else are we gonna say? "k bye"?

 

[Foresight]

You're not happy when you're dead but you're surely not suffering. End of story

 

[woxihuanni]

I dont know why it all rubbed you the wrong way. I find it poignant that the bunch of atheists that we are say things like fair winds. Because what else can we do? Realism gets a little toned down when things are too serious to be utterly realistic.

 

[MeltingHeart]

but to say 'sleep well' and 'peace' doesnt always mean u r religious necessarily, many of these expressions have seeped into our common consciousness and vernacular. I know shit loads of people that will post or express R.I.P when someone dies and none of them are religious. When someone on here does a goodbye thread, they have already probs had loads of other interactions with users on here, saying are u sure?/ it is final etc. As it is pro-choice by the time it gets to the goodbye, it's nicer just to offer a nice sentiment, it might be reassuring at that time....if someone tells me they wish me peace (when the time comes)- i will take that to mean-as a contrast to the suffering i feel in life...even if after that...there is nothing..for me that is better than this 'something'...

 

[Meant2Die]

"enchanted magical mystery ride" - ha, don't we all wish it so

I agree it's all very nice, it really is, but I think all it shows is that despite people being depressed, angry, sad, grieving, suicidal (whatever each person's situation is) we are still capable of simply just having tact, which is a great thing. Kudos to our parents/society for raising compassionate human beings. Some of those statements are just culturally appropriate for the situation and I personally believe some (not all) may not even think about it that deeply when they use them. Not a bad thing, by any means. On the flip side, I've seen threads here regarding questions about the afterlife, etc. and it seems most people are atheists... some agnostic, perhaps. And I notice this bc I am one of those who is "spiritual" and deeply believes in an afterlife, but I def DID NOT grow up religious, or believe in religion at all currently. But as far as that goes, I'm in my 30's so forgive me, as I believe there is a little bit of a generational gap at work here, when it comes to considering something to be religious vs spiritual. None of those phrases actually ever made me think people were religious for example, more like just well mannered.

 

[NitriteAnatomy]

When I've told others Godspeed, it's not a religious reference. It's a term astronauts use and I'm a fan of space. I'm not very religious, myself, but one can at least offer some sense of peace, even if it falls on deaf ears.

 

[Hank]

I am surprised by all the deeply religious people on this forum. Surveys say that religion--a superstitious, unverified, illogical belief in gods and an afterlife--is rapidly declining among younger people. Those surveys must be wrong. That is so great to see!

"Have a good journey", "see you in paradise", "see you on the other side", "I wish you an afterlife of peace", "sleep well", "I hope you made it", "hope to meet someday", "I'll be joining you soon", "safe travels". It's all so sweet, so heartwarming! It makes the whole thing seem like a trip to Disneyland. No wonder people just can't wait!

Not one person saying that when you're alive you're alive, and when you're dead you're dead. Dead as in dead. You don't go anywhere, you're not happy or peaceful, you're not traveling or journeying or sailing or floating in the clouds somewhere with wings and a halo smoking a joint. You're not waiting for others to join you. You're stone cold dead. It's over, that's it. Not one person even hinting at this...wow...I am really shocked. How wonderful!

It really makes me feel ashamed--and rather inadequate--to say that when I die I'm merely going to be dead. Like a cow, like a dog, like a worm, like a fly, like a protozoa. All chemical and electrical processes ended, just a 175-pound sack of meat. Gosh, just saying it sounds so depressing, so final.

But then again I'm 71, ill and ready to go, no fear of death. I've seen actual dead bodies, I'm not romanticizing the whole subject, I'm not fooling around. I don't know, maybe the thought that suicide makes you dead...really dead...dead dead...is kind of scary. It might even make some people think twice ( I don't mean anyone on this forum, don't get me wrong, we're hardcore realists.)

So sorry for being such a downer and a party pooper. It's great to see that those statistics are wrong, that most young people still feel that death is simply an enchanted magical mystery ride into a rainbow afterlife. It's changed my whole attitude...why...it now sounds like fun!

Yeah what is logic? The reality is, we don't know anything. You are 71, so you had some time to think about this. I'm sorry to say this, but you either are forcefully trying to convince yourself of this theory, or you are rather unimaginative. I think it is the first one.

Your body is made up of cells, but a large percentage are minuscule creatures that live in and on you. We have no clue what consciousness, or the spirit, or the "I" is. It is true that you and I don't remember anything from the infinitive past, before we were born. You could then conclude that this life was a one life time event. But is that logical? Something that happens and never happens again? I think that is not possible. If time is infinite, then there is too much time that something that happens will not happen again. Since everything that happens, can happen again, or maybe slightly/hugly different.

The body, the cells, and the creatures that live on it might die, but the I, the spirit, the spirit of the cells and the creatures on the body? What happens to them? You don't know it, I don't know it, no human knows it.

And that's probably why people refer to it as a journey/other side/joining you soon, which might not be a wrong description. maybe it's a journey to become something else. Maybe it's a journey to assimilate with something else. He, I'm sorry about this answer, but you asked for it ;)

 

[WilliamKline]

This thread has been an absolute beauty so far

 

[NitriteAnatomy]

Just from the tone of the original post, I don't think anyone should take it too personal. It's a pretty good observation of the younger generation and how we all tend to cope when faced with death.

 

[MissNietzsche]

If it makes you feel any better, I agree with you, OP. Afterlife will feel the same as pre-birth: literal nothingness.

 

[mathieu]

It's just comforting to think of a wonderful peaceful rest after death, even if it's just a whole lot of nothing. Maybe it's not reality but reality fucking sucks.

 

[Jean4]

I personally wish everyone love and peace. I consider death and nothingness the ultimate peace. Oh. My cat is God. He considers himself God, and who am I to argue? And prove that he isn't. ;)

 

[Girobatol]

I have only seen few very religious persons asking that if you ctb you may go to hell. But that has been a minority over here. Very religious people avoid suicide like catholics.

 

[Emily123]

I really want to overcome my fears and write a good bye topic one day . I have SN and I am waiting for other medicines to come . Someone asked me today again if I was a boy or girl? he made me one step closer to suicide because I am really sick of people asking me this question . Unfortunately I could not find N and I don't know how much I will suffer if I use SN . But I will use it sometime soon . Maybe when I received my medicines

 

[NitriteAnatomy]

I have only seen few very religious persons asking that if you ctb you may go to hell. But that has been a minority over here. Very religious people avoid suicide like catholics.

Yes, but being a cat holic is nothing to cough a furball at. On a more serious note, agreed, haven't seen very many truly religious posts, other than the ones questioning about hell/afterlife. It's understandable, though. I mean, humanity has long been fascinated by the topic of death, after all.

 

[oopswronglife]

You're not happy when you're dead but you're surely not suffering. End of story

You cannot possibly know this and I find the "end of story", "period", "full stop" sort of things after an opinion to be as arrogant and annoying as I do peple who preach Jesus saves etc. Nobody knows what is after if anything. Not one of us. We will simply find out or we won't. The only reasonable answer is "I don't know" when asked this question. I apologize if I misread your intent...but it seems its always militant, smug atheists declaring their "truth" or religious zealots doing the same. I see very little reasonable response to this issue in life.

 

[TowerUpright]

As someone else alluded to..

I don't remember anything about my time before my life. Is there a reason I should see / experience/ remember things after my life?

 

[Emily123]

I don't beielive that God exists because I can see the awful situation in myself . God does not exist or he does not have any relationship with us . As a transgender I don't really know what God was really thinking when he made me like this ?!!! When I was a teenager my dad were beating me everyday (I can not remember even one day that he did not beato me ) . I was raped a number of times in school , street and ... . I spent all my life in a room because I did not want anybody to see me . My transition was so painful and unsuccessful . Where is really god in my life?

 

[NitriteAnatomy]

I don't beielive that God exists because I can see the awful situation in myself . God does not exist or he does not have any relationship with us . As a transgender I don't really know what God was really thinking when he made me like this ?!!! When I was a teenager my dad were beating me everyday (I can not remember even one day that he did not beato me ) . I was raped a number of times in school , street and ... . I spent all my life in a room because I did not want anybody to see me . My transition was so painful and unsuccessful . Where is really god in my life?

The way I see it, if all the fanatical religious people insist everyone is made in God's own image, then there should be 0 problems with you being who you are. Boy, girl, attack helicopter, dragon. Be YOU. I also believe, personally and from a more science viewpoint, that someone that feels they were born in the wrong body is not something they just made up in their heads. As long as they are old enough to make the informed decision to who they really are, to hell with anyone that finds fault with the choice. Regardless of a floating man/woman on a cloud, you're still you.

But, I digress, you are correct that, if there was a God (who's supposed to be all loving.....right) then there is NO reason anyone should have to suffer and I am truly sorry you went through all that you have that has brought you to this point.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I'm hell right now.

For 13.7 billion years i didn't exist . And that was ok with me because then i didn't have any pain, problems nor worries.. I believe it will be the same after i die, non-existence. And i'm happy about me dying because it will get me out of this hell i'm in right now.

I don't believe in a hell nor afterlife.

The universe began 13.7 billion years ago in the big bang. https://www.space.com/25126-big-bang-theory.html

 

[toomuchgrief]

THANK YOU OP. If I can rep you 100x times I would Sir.

Dead is the end to me too, exactly like when you got put under anesthesia. Eternal unconscious.

Every.day. I have to live with the grief of my son death. Only when I die I can be free of these daily pain and grief.

Death is good to me. Soon. soon.

If there is something after we die, all I hope for is I can see my son again. But I know I won't. Once I enter death, it just eternal nothingness.

 

[crea_the_hopeless]

Idk the tone of this post sounds very smug and judgmental. It kinda irritates me. Like what would you rather people say to those that are about to experience death? "When you're dead, you're dead. You won't have any peace. There is no light at the end of the tunnel. Your pain on earth and the peace you are seeking doesn't matter because when you die you will have nothing to look forward to. Also let me remind you how terrible your corpse will look. You're gonna stink and be gross. Goodbye!" ???????

I'd rather offer warm sentiments than negativity to someone that may be feeling very nervous, overwhelmed, pained, isolated or alone. Religious beliefs or not, the fact is when we die we will no longer be among the living. Whether we're in the ground or in outer space, we won't be here, alive anymore. That suggests distance between life and death. So if they're traveling that distance it would be nice to at least hope it's peaceful for them and to wish them well. Not get hung up on beliefs and nice sayings.

 

[BlueWidow]

OP, what is the alternative to " safe journey " and all other sentiments expressed in goodbye threads? What would you suggest we say?

Not asking to be obstinate, just wondering what you would have us say to comfort a person who is most likely frightened and anxious, even though exercising their right to choose their own exit.

 

[Hydrokhoos]

Idk the tone of this post sounds very smug and judgmental. It kinda irritates me. Like what would you rather people say to those that are about to experience death? "When you're dead, you're dead. You won't have any peace. There is no light at the end of the tunnel. Your pain on earth and the peace you are seeking doesn't matter because when you die you will have nothing to look forward to. Also let me remind you how terrible your corpse will look. You're gonna stink and be gross. Goodbye!" ???????

Yeah the tone of this post really annoyed me. Honestly kinda sounds like a troll and someone taking things way too literally.

 

[angele]

What do you suggest we say then? Later skater! LOL

 

[AnnaJaspers]

I am a staunch atheist, and I totally understand that my death will be OBLIVION, which is what I am seeking.

However, I too have used sentiments such as "safe travels, I hope you find your peace" or "see you on the dark side of the moon" to express comfort to those departing us because, quite literally, the journey from here to "there" is an actual journey--and a quite scary one for many. Who is to say how fast our consciousness is switched off--seconds could feel like hours at the end, and even though the end is oblivion, it's getting from point A to point B which is difficult, especially as a suicide, and especially alone.

Standing in a middle of a room I pull a trigger, or take the SN, or pull the bag over my head. In-between the in-between between life and death there is a bridge so wishing someone safe travels over that metaphorical bridge does not imply that someone is deeply religious, nor does it encourage someone to take the final step because of some glorified hereafter.

Most people undertaking this journey to death are seeking a kind of peace, and as tragic as suicide is, sometimes it really is the lesser of two evils. Wishing someone peace in their final moments on this planet, and their destination isn't wrong, it's compassionate.

 

[Stan]

I tend to look at goodbye threads and the posts placed there with a different viewpoint. The vent itself is so huge. The person saying goodbye is reaching out, maybe for their own reasons. Possibly they want someone to know they are going or maybe in a life of loneliness they want some last minute company. The responses from members can reflect their own personal belief. I don't necessarily see it as projecting a belief. It's more about 'what do you say to a person in their last moments?' So there is a degree of awkwardness because what can you really say at a time like that? Is it too much? Is it too little? Will it belittle the event or in someway upset a person who already is probably in high anxiety? For me, if the post is supportive, kind and personal to the poster, then it delivered in the right way regardless of the words or phraseology.

 

[Jean Améry]

You cannot possibly know this and I find the "end of story", "period", "full stop" sort of things after an opinion to be as arrogant and annoying as I do peple who preach Jesus saves etc. Nobody knows what is after if anything. Not one of us. We will simply find out or we won't. The only reasonable answer is "I don't know" when asked this question. I apologize if I misread your intent...but it seems its always militant, smug atheists declaring their "truth" or religious zealots doing the same. I see very little reasonable response to this issue in life.

That opinion (consciousness ceases at death) is entirely reasonable as it it congruent with what we actually know about reality. Neuroscience has made it clear the brain is intimately tied to consciousness and both mental and physical functioning. Destroy certain parts of the brain and the correlated functions will cease. Destroy the brain itself and all functioning ceases: that's the very definition of death, medically speaking (brain death). Unless neuroscience is wrong a working brain seems to be a conditio sine qua non for consciousness and life itself. At least for us.

This makes it highly unlikely our consciousness will survive our death as death necessarily and by definition involves the destruction of the brain.

To posit that this simply doesn't matter, that an entirely different set of rules applies after death and that there is an immaterial substance which humanity has droned on about since the very beginning but which has never been shown to exist is wishful thinking.

Strictly speaking it's not a verified fact that life ceases at death (no corpse has ever risen though nor has anyone been able to verify the existence of souls, ghosts... or anything that would point in the direction of life after death) but to equate the fantasy of religion (for which there is not single shred of scientific evidence) with a sceptical position based on the available evidence is quite frankly unreasonable.

There's a lot we simply don't know in life yet we can't build our lives on 'I don't know'. If we must possess perfect knowledge before we act we will likely not act at all. We make assumptions and rational people make reasonable assumptions based on what is known. With the knowledge that we might be wrong as human knowledge is by definition imperfect.

As to the phrase 'end of story': for the OP it clearly is the case. You have every right to disagree just as I have the right to disagree with your opinion. I do understand your taking issue with the OP's phrasing but I would categorise this under freedom of speech and I'd advise you to not take offense at what strangers think or write. That's easier said than done though. For me as well.