Discussion Bad Parenting and Having Children.

[OhWellDerp321]

Curious to know what everyone's view on having children is.

I am divided on it. I don't completely agree with the antinatalism viewpoint where having kids is immoral.
However, I also don't believe that everyone should have kids just because it makes you happy.

In fact, the way I see it, a lot of parents that have kids for the reason that "it brings them joy", those are the parents that are the worse.
Having kids should be about making the kid happy. Not you.

Some parents also think they can raise their kids to have a better life than them, and hope the kids don't make the same mistakes they did. This rarely works out because if you as the parent couldn't navigate through life, how will you teach your kid to be successful? It's extremely selfish to put pressure on your kids to succeed because you didn't.

Needless to say, there are also moms who truly know they don't want kids, but along the way friends, family members, their partner convinced them that having kids would be happy. But that's selfish also. Raising children takes effort and children can be brats. If deep inside you never wanted children in the first place, you won't have the patience to raise them.

In my experience, the good parents are the ones that were successful in achieving their own goals (career goals, spiritual goals, etc...). Those parents want to have kids not just to make themselves happy, but to make the kid happy and show them the way to be successful.

So in my opinion, I think you should only have kids if you want kids because you want to make them happy, not to make you happy.

But still curious to see what you guys think.

 

[Aim]

Curious to know what everyone's view on having children is.

I am divided on it. I don't completely agree with the antinatalism viewpoint where having kids is immoral.
However, I also don't believe that everyone should have kids just because it makes you happy.

In fact, the way I see it, a lot of parents that have kids for the reason that "it brings them joy", those are the parents that are the worse.
Having kids should be about making the kid happy. Not you.

Some parents also think they can raise their kids to have a better life than them, and hope they don't make the same mistakes they did. This rarely works out because if you as the parent couldn't navigate through life, how will you teach your kid to be successful? It's extremely selfish to put pressure on your kids to succeed because you didn't.

Needless to say, there are also moms who truly know they don't want kids, but along the way friends, family members, their partner convinced them that having kids would be happy. But that's selfish also. Raising children takes effort and children can be brats. If deep inside you never wanted children in the first place, you won't have the patience to raise them.

In my experience, the good parents are the ones that were successful in achieving their own goals (career goals, spiritual goals, etc...). Those parents want to have kids not just to make themselves happy, but to make the kid happy and show them the way to be successful.

So in my opinion, I think you should only have kids if you want kids because you want to make them happy, not to make you happy.

But still curious to see what you guys think.

Absolutely! Thinking about getting children only for your own sake of happiness! Is nothing more then cruel and disturbing. Thinking also that your children owe you. Because you gave them life. Is also very disturbing!

 

[OhWellDerp321]

Absolutely! Thinking about getting children only for your own sake of happiness! Is nothing more then cruel and disturbing. Thinking also that your children owe you. Because you gave them life. Is also very disturbing!

True. I bet if you asked parents: "Why did you choose to have kids?", a lot of them would probably give you that answer.

 

[Aim]

True. I bet if you asked parents: "Why did you choose to have kids?", a lot of them would probably give you that answer.

Off course! Or at least a healthy soulfully individual would!

 

[darkenmydoorstep]

Curious to know what everyone's view on having children is.

I am divided on it. I don't completely agree with the antinatalism viewpoint where having kids is immoral.
However, I also don't believe that everyone should have kids just because it makes you happy.

In fact, the way I see it, a lot of parents that have kids for the reason that "it brings them joy", those are the parents that are the worse.
Having kids should be about making the kid happy. Not you.

Some parents also think they can raise their kids to have a better life than them, and hope the kids don't make the same mistakes they did. This rarely works out because if you as the parent couldn't navigate through life, how will you teach your kid to be successful? It's extremely selfish to put pressure on your kids to succeed because you didn't.

Needless to say, there are also moms who truly know they don't want kids, but along the way friends, family members, their partner convinced them that having kids would be happy. But that's selfish also. Raising children takes effort and children can be brats. If deep inside you never wanted children in the first place, you won't have the patience to raise them.

In my experience, the good parents are the ones that were successful in achieving their own goals (career goals, spiritual goals, etc...). Those parents want to have kids not just to make themselves happy, but to make the kid happy and show them the way to be successful.

So in my opinion, I think you should only have kids if you want kids because you want to make them happy, not to make you happy.

But still curious to see what you guys think.

The thing about having kids is it's just like any other family relationship in the sense that you might end up being related to a person you don't gel with/is not a good fit. We see this so often with parents and siblings so why we assume it may be different with a child I don't know.
It's a complete lucky dip
Friends and partners are the only ones we get to choose and try and ensure fit us well.

 

[Aim]

The thing about having kids is it's just like any other family relationship in the sense that you might end up being related to a person you don't gel with/is not a good fit. We see this so often with parents and siblings so why we assume it may be different with a child I don't know.
It's a complete lucky dip
Friends and partners are the only ones we get to choose and try and ensure fit us well.

That's true also, but to be abused because your parents

The thing about having kids is it's just like any other family relationship in the sense that you might end up being related to a person you don't gel with/is not a good fit. We see this so often with parents and siblings so why we assume it may be different with a child I don't know.
It's a complete lucky dip
Friends and partners are the only ones we get to choose and try and ensure fit us well.

That's very true also, but until the child is at least 18. Or grown up ti understand right from wrong. I think it's the parents job to guide and be a healthy parent to their child!

 

[FuneralCry]

I find it disgusting and criminal to procreate under any circumstance, the compassionate thing would be to leave the non-existent alone in peace and not burden them with the ability to suffer endlessly in this existence in which there was never a need for in the first place.

If all humans were capable of rational thinking this species would have went extinct a long time ago, procreation is so tragic as existence itself is the ultimate cause of all suffering and harm.

It's a tragedy forcing someone out of the ideal state of non-existence just to trap them in a decaying flesh prison that they are slaves to and cannot easily free themselves from. Nobody can be harmed by not-existing yet there is no limit as to how much one can suffer in this evil, hellish world. Only never existing at all is perfection.

 

[Faith_No_more]

All i know is my parents shouldn't have been parents. I think for certain people, reproduction is a product of narcism. They think they are so great, the world needs to be blessed with thier genes. But I don't think it's true for all people. Some people want to materialise love with a partner. Those with good intentions I can't fault. just my two cents (which doesn't count for much.)

 

[Lost Magic]

Seeing the world that I grew up in as a kid in the (80s and 90s) wasn't great back then but I believe things to be much worse now. What with over-population, dwindling resources, threats of Nuclear Annihilation, Global Warming, AI, greater surveillance, pandemics, cost of living problems, wars, and on and on. I think I am now a complete antinatalist. And don't even get me started on so many shitty parents out there who should never have been parents in the first place.

 

[darkenmydoorstep]

That's true also, but to be abused because your parents

That's very true also, but until the child is at least 18. Or grown up ti understand right from wrong. I think it's the parents job to guide and be a healthy parent to their child!

Absolutely and part of being an adult is reasoning and accepting that. My point I suppose, was that it's an aspect I don't think many consider. They think they are getting a mini me or agreeable blank slate.

 

[Aim]

That's true also, but to be abused because your parents

That's very true also, but until the child is at least 18. Or grown up ti understand right from wrong. I think it's the parents job to guide and be a healthy parent to their child!

Absolutely and part of being an adult is reasoning and accepting that. My point I suppose, was that it's an aspect I don't think many consider. They think they are getting a mini me or agreeable blank slate.

Yeps! Which means I believe is thinking about the child first. Helping the child to become secure in their own person. And not being narcissist.

 

[OhWellDerp321]

That's true also, but to be abused because your parents

That's very true also, but until the child is at least 18. Or grown up ti understand right from wrong. I think it's the parents job to guide and be a healthy parent to their child!

Its very hard if the parent themselves are emotionally unstable. In my experience, those parents try to teach their kids to be emotionally stable by telling the kid what how to respond to emotions. But it never works because kids don't respond to what they hear, they respond to what they see. And if the parent lashes out all the time, but tells the kid to maintain his composure, that's very conflicting.

 

[SpiritualDeath]

Even if you want your kids to be happy, it doesn't mean that the kids will actually be happy after you bring them here, and it's extremely arrogant to think that you *can* make your kids happy. There's too many ways for them to suffer in this existence and whether you admit it or not, most of them are out of your control. Procreation is non-consensual in nature, and the existent have desires while the non-existent don't. In a sense after you force those desires onto your kids (by bringing them into existence) it's guaranteed that they'll suffer (and/or make other people suffer) at some point in the future. I don't like the currently most mainstream definition of morality so I wouldn't defend my point by solely accusing parents to be immoral, but it's very likely that by procreating you're producing (a huge number of) problems that could have been avoided in the first place.

 

[Aim]

Its very hard if the parent themselves are emotionally unstable. In my experience, those parents try to teach their kids to be emotionally stable by telling the kid what how to respond to emotions. But it never works because kids don't respond to what they hear, they respond to what they see. And if the parent lashes out all the time, but tells the kid to maintain his composure, that's very conflicting.

This is very true. And it's just very sad.

 

[OhWellDerp321]

Even if you want your kids to be happy, it doesn't mean that the kids will actually be happy after you bring them here, and it's extremely arrogant to think that you *can* make your kids happy. There's too many ways for them to suffer in this existence and whether you admit it or not, most of them are out of your control. Procreation is non-consensual in nature, and the existent have desires while the non-existent don't. In a sense after you force those desires onto your kids (by bringing them into existence) it's guaranteed that they'll suffer (and/or make other people suffer) at some point in the future. I don't like the currently most mainstream definition of morality so I wouldn't defend my point by solely accusing parents to be immoral, but it's very likely that by procreating you're producing (a huge number of) problems that could have been avoided in the first place.

I do agree with your viewpoint that "Even if you want your kids to be happy, it doesn't mean that the kids will actually be happy". There are too many factors you can't predict. However, I would say that if the parents are financially stable, emotionally stable. and actually want kids to make the kid happy, then at least there is more of a chance that the kid might feel loved by their parents. But a lot parents don't check any of those boxes. And those kids are more likely to be unhappy.

 

[SpiritualDeath]

I do agree with your viewpoint that "Even if you want your kids to be happy, it doesn't mean that the kids will actually be happy". There are too many factors you can't predict. However, I would say that if the parents are financially stable, emotionally stable. and actually want kids to make the kid happy, then at least there is more of a chance that the kid might feel loved by their parents. But a lot parents don't check any of those boxes. And those kids are more likely to be unhappy.

I wouldn't force my ideas on others. I would say it's your choice at the end of the day. You own your body, so if you want to give birth who am I to interfere. However what I think *needs* to be done is that parents should be able to realize and admit that they are to be blamed for every problem related to their kids in the future (I do mean every single one, no matter big or small). In reality most parents live in full denial of this fact, and through this they're creating and perpetuating even more problems and suffering.

 

[OhWellDerp321]

I wouldn't force my ideas on others. I would say it's your choice at the end of the day. You own your body, so if you want to give birth who am I to interfere. However what I think *needs* to be done is that parents should be able to realize and admit that they are to be blamed for every problem related to their kids in the future (I do mean every single one, no matter big or small). In reality most parents live in full denial of this fact, and through this they're creating and perpetuating even more problems and suffering.

I agree with you there. It's funny how society often views a kid's success as the result of good parenting. But if the kid turns out to be a bum when he is an adult, then it's his/her fault and not the parent's fault.

 

[sserafim]

Curious to know what everyone's view on having children is.

I am divided on it. I don't completely agree with the antinatalism viewpoint where having kids is immoral.
However, I also don't believe that everyone should have kids just because it makes you happy.

In fact, the way I see it, a lot of parents that have kids for the reason that "it brings them joy", those are the parents that are the worse.
Having kids should be about making the kid happy. Not you.

Some parents also think they can raise their kids to have a better life than them, and hope the kids don't make the same mistakes they did. This rarely works out because if you as the parent couldn't navigate through life, how will you teach your kid to be successful? It's extremely selfish to put pressure on your kids to succeed because you didn't.

Needless to say, there are also moms who truly know they don't want kids, but along the way friends, family members, their partner convinced them that having kids would be happy. But that's selfish also. Raising children takes effort and children can be brats. If deep inside you never wanted children in the first place, you won't have the patience to raise them.

In my experience, the good parents are the ones that were successful in achieving their own goals (career goals, spiritual goals, etc...). Those parents want to have kids not just to make themselves happy, but to make the kid happy and show them the way to be successful.

So in my opinion, I think you should only have kids if you want kids because you want to make them happy, not to make you happy.

But still curious to see what you guys think.

There's also the societal expectation to have children. Society thinks that to be successful you need to have a good career, get married, and have a family. I think that some couples have children because society and their parents expect them to, when in reality they don't have the emotional capacity to raise or care for children. Instead, they're just ticking off boxes of what it means to be successful in our society. It's kind of like people are just fulfilling a checklist that society has made for them.

Personally, I won't have children because I'm aroace and I don't like kids. I don't see a need for having a partner, children, or family, they don't tie into my life goals. I just don't want or desire these things.

I don't care if other people have children, but I think it should be considered if you really want children or if you're just having them because society expects you to.

 

[exteriorizes]

Curious to know what everyone's view on having children is.

I am divided on it. I don't completely agree with the antinatalism viewpoint where having kids is immoral.
However, I also don't believe that everyone should have kids just because it makes you happy.

In fact, the way I see it, a lot of parents that have kids for the reason that "it brings them joy", those are the parents that are the worse.
Having kids should be about making the kid happy. Not you.

Some parents also think they can raise their kids to have a better life than them, and hope the kids don't make the same mistakes they did. This rarely works out because if you as the parent couldn't navigate through life, how will you teach your kid to be successful? It's extremely selfish to put pressure on your kids to succeed because you didn't.

Needless to say, there are also moms who truly know they don't want kids, but along the way friends, family members, their partner convinced them that having kids would be happy. But that's selfish also. Raising children takes effort and children can be brats. If deep inside you never wanted children in the first place, you won't have the patience to raise them.

In my experience, the good parents are the ones that were successful in achieving their own goals (career goals, spiritual goals, etc...). Those parents want to have kids not just to make themselves happy, but to make the kid happy and show them the way to be successful.

So in my opinion, I think you should only have kids if you want kids because you want to make them happy, not to make you happy.

But still curious to see what you guys think.

Yeah no. Having children just to boost your happiness or whatever is just fucked. Like I want kids one day because I want to have my own family one day. Not to just make me extra happy or anything.

 

[silentcicada]

I'm torn on my opinion but mostly agree with you. I believe you should be mentally and financially prepared to have a child. Do genetic testing to see if your kid is at risk for anything, move to an affordable state/country so your child has a chance at success, have a backup plan if your child is born with a disability, etc. Too many people have children "just because they can" then treat them like accessories and have the internet raise them.

At the end of the day it's your body, but I can't in good conscience bring a new life into this world.

 

[carnivalforone]

my parents weren't ready to have a kid. they were struggling to fare for themselves and they decided to bring me into the mix?! i was unfortunate enough that they didnt think of the consequences, my would have been older brother was taken away from me and i was left with baseless figures with no real guidance. I hate it i despise it i abhor it i wish theyd learned things themselves before they decided to have me. I know if i were ever to have a kid i would make them the happiest kid alive id teach them lessons but id make sure they never had to worry or stress or go through anything i went through. How ignorant of my parents to be suffering and bring me into the mix, now i have to suffer for their decisions and stress daily because id never wish for anyone to have to go through the same thing.

 

[Trakehner]

Reproducing for any reason cannot be justified. People have children because of several biological and social factors. However, it cannot be understated the damage that is caused by forcing life into this world. Suffering is guaranteed to some capacity throughout a person's existence. A lot of it is unpredictable and unavoidable. The catalyst of all of life's problems out of one's control. No one chooses to be born at all and has no control over the situation they are forced into.

Even if all suffering were to theoretically disappear, there would still be no reason for life to exist or be prolonged.

 

[Done_Surviving]

I love kids, and have a huge maternal instinct. I always wanted to be a mom, but I have come to the conclusion that I shouldn't do it. Not only am I genetically fuck up with several mental and chronic illnesses, but it would be hurtful and traumatizing for both me and the kid. No child deserves a mom that just cries herself to sleep every night and has no energy or motivation to play with them.

 

[Blue Elephant]

until the child is at least 18. Or grown up ti understand right from wrong. I think it's the parents job to guide and be a healthy parent to their child!

@smilytree Kids can make the difference between right or wrong starting from a very small age if you know how to explain it to them. And this is a relative concept, it's different from situation to situation, from time to time. Right isn't always right and wrong isn't always wrong. I wonder how many people mention this to their children!?

And yes children should be guided, they only need ONE intelligent being to teach and take care of them. So many don't have even that much. : (

Some people want to materialise love with a partner. Those with good intentions I can't fault.

@Faith_No_more and yet they are at fault. There an many variables when considering if children should be had, considering being the first one. Just good intentions are never enough.

Seeing the world that I grew up in as a kid in the (80s and 90s) wasn't great back then but I believe things to be much worse now. What with over-population, dwindling resources, threats of Nuclear Annihilation, Global Warming, AI, greater surveillance, pandemics, cost of living problems, wars, and on and on. I think I am now a complete antinatalist.

@Lost Magic And this is just what we see, what we are shown, there are probably a lot more things which are hidden from us. I am antinatalist as well.

They think they are getting a mini me or agreeable blank slate.

@darkenmydoorstep Eh! These people shouldn't be allowed to own even a Tamagochi.

I wouldn't force my ideas on others. I would say it's your choice at the end of the day. You own your body, so if you want to give birth who am I to interfere. However what I think *needs* to be done is that parents should be able to realize and admit that they are to be blamed for every problem related to their kids in the future (I do mean every single one, no matter big or small). In reality most parents live in full denial of this fact, and through this they're creating and perpetuating even more problems and suffering.

I agree with you there. It's funny how society often views a kid's success as the result of good parenting. But if the kid turns out to be a bum when he is an adult, then it's his/her fault and not the parent's fault.

@SeraphimDeath and @OhWellDerp321 Nail on the head!!

@SeraphimDeath It's their choice but their choice affects us as well. All beings live in this ecosystem and everything is connected. We pay when others steal and destroy around us. We pay when there are 8 billion and there's less food and less water and less resources. We pay for some idiots to have new toys to play with (because what else will they do with their lives) and inssurance for when they are old and finally we pay for these workers for the system to keep working.

I love kids, and have a huge maternal instinct. I always wanted to be a mom, but I have come to the conclusion that I shouldn't do it. Not only am I genetically fuck up with several mental and chronic illnesses, but it would be hurtful and traumatizing for both me and the kid. No child deserves a mom that just cries herself to sleep every night and has no energy or motivation to play with them.

And yet (because of your awareness) under different circumstances you would be one of the very very few good mothers.

 

[OhWellDerp321]

I love kids, and have a huge maternal instinct. I always wanted to be a mom, but I have come to the conclusion that I shouldn't do it. Not only am I genetically fuck up with several mental and chronic illnesses, but it would be hurtful and traumatizing for both me and the kid. No child deserves a mom that just cries herself to sleep every night and has no energy or motivation to play with them.

That's good that you have that awareness. Not a lot of parents do though. They say they care about the child first. But then why do they have children when they are well aware that they have many existing problems.