Are you pro-choice when it comes to pregnancy?

[noname223]

If this topic is not allowed plz delete it.
Yesterday I read an article about anti-abortion people in the US. I simply cannot understand it. Many aspects of religion are so dumb. I am so glad I do not live in the US. I am very much pro-choice when it comes to abortion. Many women get raped and then they are pregnant. No kid wants to be procreated by rape. Many people (like my parents) should not be allowed to have kids. Without abortion there will be many unloved children whose misery could have been easily prevented.

 

[motel rooms]

Yes, I'm pro-choice, but I'd be very sad if my husband chose not to have our baby.

 

[lostundead]

Yes I am. Religious people still believe there is such a thing as 'the soul', formed at conception, so they equate abortion with murder. I don't know nearly enough about this subject to judge when a person becomes a person but certainly not before any relevant brain activity.

However it still disgusts me when some liberals glorify abortion as some sort of 'rebellion against the patriarchy', while ignoring the fact that it can be a traumatizing experience for the woman and is also a waste of medical recources.

 

[Bleak]

Yes. I agree that the US is pretty backwards and I wish I didn't live in this culture. Yes, we are materially more well off than most of the world, but there is so much frenzied insanity in this country and a major lack of empathy.

 

[charlottewilts]

there are tons of people who are pro-choice for abortion, but not for suicide. however, i would find it hard to believe someone could be pro-choice for suicide but not for abortion...

 

[CFLoser]

No I'm not. I want other people to experience the same pain and loneliness I do. I want the mothers who try to kill their kids to suffer and the kids themselves too.

 

[Pluto]

I'm anti-choice with specific reference to my own parents. They should have been forced to have abortions.

 

[ClownMe]

I'm pro choice, I wish I was aborted.

 

[stellabelle]

My father wanted me but my mother wasn't a good mother. She insisted that children were a mistake and tormented me rather than being halfway decent.

I feel like people should always have a choice when it comes to abortion. It's better than struggling in the society we live in.

 

[Brick In The Wall]

I'm pro choice in every aspect. Making my own decisions can be exhausting enough without trying to micro-manage the lives of others.

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

Yes, it should always be a woman's choice. The ramifications of having a child are so immense. It's probably the biggest thing the average person could do in their lives. So the circumstances have to be right.

 

[Siegfrida]

Definitely pro-choice. People who would take this choice from women are just cruel and want to exert their control. And they call that a religion :P.

 

[CFLoser]

Definitely pro-choice. People who would take this choice from women are just cruel and want to exert their control. And they call that a religion :P.

No people who want to take this choice from women want more babies to exist. It's not about control because the powers that be already have control over everything we do.

Also reminder that most abortion clinics are set up in low income black areas to target black children aka Genocide.

 

[Siegfrida]

No people who want to take this choice from women want more babies to exist. It's not about control because the powers that be already have control over everything we do.

Also reminder that most abortion clinics are set up in low income black areas to target black children aka Genocide.

And what good does it do if more babies exist if they can't have a good life and they are not wanted? Our civilization is always trying to "save lives", but doesn't care much about real quality of life. Regarding abortion clinics in low income black areas - I don't know the situation in US, it may well be so, but US is just one part of the world, not the whole world. I am quite sure that for example women in Poland would welcome some of those abortion clinics. Do you consider it genocide too if those women and babies are white?

 

[Meretlein]

Yes. The right to control your own body is sacrosanct.

 

[CatLove56]

I'm pro abortion

 

[Grav]

I'm pro-choice but that comes with stings (which may get people p.o'd). I know this doesn't apply to all situations but for some people they need to put a few more brain cells together before deciding to have sex. Instead of having an abortion try not screwing or at least take some kind of measures (again I know not all are 100% effective, etc).

 

[lostundead]

Only in the case of rape and if the pregnancy may be unavoidably dangerous.
Modern infatuations like on abortion and transsexualism only spring the word "Satanic" to mind, ive asked non-religious people and they agree with me aswell.

If you don't want unnecessary pregnancy don't go on a cock carousel.
I understand this mostly happens to certain socio-economic populations, for example in the US, but there seems to be a rising number of middle class white or Jewish middleage women who are very keen on abortions. They are extremely hateful, sad miserable people.
I've never seen so much neuroticism, mental illness, amorality and stupidity as in the white and Jewish North American population.

I may not agree with you but I respect your ability to say such an unpopular opinion, just like that.

 

[CFLoser]

Do you consider it genocide too if those women and babies are white?

Yes, it doesn't really fit the definition though. In the end you are killing a baby. If you think that is morally just then idk.

 

[Futile]

I'm pro-choice in everything: abortion, suicide, vaccines...

 

[deflationary]

Why would someone be so keen on killing unborn children? Why are "they" focused on destroying everything human and beautiful and degrading the masses?

Because it's better for everyone involved to not bring unwanted kids into this world. Pretty hilarious that you're presenting yourself as some courageous free-thinker for adopting a position that only the most regressive religious argumentation can support.

 

[CFLoser]

Because it's better for everyone involved to not bring unwanted kids into this world. Pretty hilarious that you're presenting yourself as some courageous free-thinker for adopting a position that only the most regressive religious argumentation can support.

Why must you attack his character?

Let's focus on the arguments at hand and present reasoning for statements. Like why do you think it's better for everyone involved to not bring "unwanted" (needs explaining too) kids into the world?

Who says the mother get to the decide an entire being and it's future is "unwanted" by the world?

 

[$nowLeopard]

Pretty hilarious that you're presenting yourself as some courageous free-thinker for adopting a position that only the most regressive

Because the future is not transhumanism and atheism. Look at secular Western and Central European countries. They are gradually becoming weaker and weaker.

I went from religious due to atheism being a taboo in my country, to atheism after discovering the internet, to Eastern Ortho Christianity. Modern secularism and its implications is just utter shit

Edit: nothing wrong with being Atheist if you are moral. My mother, grandmother, grandfather and brother are all pretty much atheists. They are extremely wonderful people.
But militant atheism is a cancer. None of them have a special opinion about religion, or think it's too particularly bad. They are from a different generation where religion wasn't demonised, which is extremely ironic because they grew up in the Soviet Union, they grew up in a place where religion is taught in schools as being bad in some way and unscientific, and they STILL don't view religion badly. Even post-Soviet people don't view religion as badly as modern day "intellectual" North Americans.

 

[deflationary]

Why must you attack his character?

Let's focus on the arguments at hand and present reasoning for statements. Like why do you think it's better for everyone involved to not bring "unwanted" (needs explaining too) kids into the world?

Who says the mother get to the decide an entire being and it's future is "unwanted" by the world?

Because he went on and on about what a free-thinker he is and it was jarring.

 

[noname223]

This discussion gets very heated. I find it interesting even though I have a very determined opinion on it. I think the staff might close this thread very soon.

 

[Wojaczek]

I dont give a shit

 

[seaweaves]

I'm considered pro choice but I would suggest more directly that I'm also pro abortion: for the allowance of providing therapeutic and voluntary induced abortions, and for the right or option to seek out abortion (whether medical or surgical).

I'd add the free nuance that pro choice and pro life are not necessarily opposites (you can think life is best and still think choice overrules that). The language we use around these debates is slippery enough that it glosses over some valuable distinctions and makes productive debate that much harder.

 

[deflationary]

Because the future is not transhumanism and atheism. Look at secular Western and Central European countries. They are gradually becoming weaker and weaker.

I went from religious due to atheism being a taboo in my country, to atheism after discovering the internet, to Eastern Ortho Christianity. Modern secularism and its implications is just utter shit

I'm sure Eastern Orthodox Christianity is the wave of the future :)

Modern secularism and its implications are indeed utter shit. But only because they track reality and it's utter shit.

Even post-Soviet people don't view religion as badly as modern day "intellectual" North Americans.

I'm from a post-Soviet country and I view it badly. It doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks, but no one I know here takes it seriously enough to think anything about it. It plays zero role in anyone's life, so there's no reason to hate it.

But this thread isn't about militant atheism. No matter how militant or non-militant you are, abortion opposition makes zero sense if you don't assume that some sort of a soul exists. It's one of those areas where you can't just say that everyone's entitled to their own opinions. Since religious people want to turn their primitive beliefs into policy that will also affect people who don't share their beliefs, it can't be just shrugged off. Pro-choice on abortion is the only rational position.

 

[$nowLeopard]

But this thread isn't about militant atheism. No matter how militant or non-militant you are, abortion opposition makes zero sense if you don't assume that some sort of a soul exists. It's one of those areas where you can't just say that everyone's entitled to their own opinions. Since religious people want to turn their primitive beliefs into policy that will also affect people who don't share their beliefs, it can't be just shrugged off. Pro-choice on abortion is the only rational position.

There are things which shouldn't BECOME allowed, because they aren't allowed in the first place for a reason. In what large and successful civilisation was there something like abortion? Homosexuality? Paedophilia? I know people like to give ancient Greece as an example but the evidence was not fully concrete.

The Western world is built on Greek philosophy and Christianity. If it didn't work, it wouldn't be as it is. You understand? You think moral principles just came to be without a reason? And you think they didn't change for no reason aswell?

primitive beliefs

I'm willing to bet you live in a country which proliferated most during its Christian Autocratic times. How primitive can it really be?

 

[lostundead]

@$nowLeopard

European civilization flourished whenever christianity was moved into the backround: Renessaince, Enlightenment, Rationalism. Christiany held back scientific progress for centuries.

I agree that morality isn't something given to us by nature, so if this is reall a gift of christianity that'd be a big achievement, but I just don't see that to be the case in light of all the cruelties commited under christian rule.

Moral principles come into place when larger groups of people start living together. You mentioned greek philosophy yourself so I don't understand why you see christianity as essential.