are you afraid of the uncertainty or the "what if"?

[DreamEnd]

Just because something is not false does not mean it is necessarily true. It can also be meaningless. I'm not sure how you could corroborate an epistemic claim with feeling alone.

All I'm saying is to know something you have to feel it yourself. You can't explain how pizza tastes unless you let somebody eat it.

I don't consider that a science. Just as psychotherapy is not a science, even if it helps people.

Psychotherapy isn't what those shamans do. And it is science to them and it is as equally valid as western science. Ayahuasca to them is a medicine that has been studied by them and the knowledge of it goes from generation to generation.

Even if evidence fits your preconception of reality, it does not mean it is empirically valid. If you take this evidence at face value, then of course it seems that they know a lot more than we do. If you reject the initial premise, however, it can simply be rejected as unsound.

Again. Scientific point of view is very limiting. It does not consider things it can't measure or test real. You can discount ndes, psychedelic experiences and what those shamans do as unsound ok but that doesn't make it true at all given the large amount of experiences we have regarding those things

Someone going to a pastor and saying they are healed is a lot different from someone going through a psychedelic experience and experiencing afterlife phenomenon. We know for instance that these drugs activate more parts of your brain than is normally activate it. So you see and feel more than tbere is to the reality of the sober mind.

Are we to claim that spiritual healers and pastors know more than doctors because their patients have a higher recovery rate?

Again spiritual healers and pastors is not what those shamans do. There is a big difference between the two. There is a whole science to the spiritual world that the shamans have been using for hundreds if not thousands of years and their knowledge is reflected in the reality of what the ayahuasca consumers feel and understand.

 

[The Schizoid]

God, devil, heaven, hell = 0 evidence exists to back up any of this shit.

Case closed. You've been sold a lie to keep you enslaved.

Peasants would kill themselves more often to escape their oppressors if they weren't afraid of afterlife.

 

[Ulrich]

All I'm saying is to know something you have to feel it yourself. You can't explain how pizza tastes unless you let somebody eat it.

Psychotherapy isn't what those shamans do. And it is science to them and it is as equally valid as western science. Ayahuasca to them is a medicine that has been studied by them and the knowledge of it goes from generation to generation.

Again. Scientific point of view is very limiting. It does not consider things it can't measure or test real. You can discount ndes, psychedelic experiences and what those shamans do as unsound ok but that doesn't make it true at all given the large amount of experiences we have regarding those things

Someone going to a pastor and saying they are healed is a lot different from someone going through a psychedelic experience and experiencing afterlife phenomenon. We know for instance that these drugs activate more parts of your brain than is normally activate it. So you see and feel more than tbere is to the reality of the sober mind.

Again spiritual healers and pastors is not what those shamans do. There is a big difference between the two. There is a whole science to the spiritual world that the shamans have been using for hundreds if not thousands of years and their knowledge is reflected in the reality of what the ayahuasca consumers feel and understand.

Will give more detailed reply after I get home from work.

 

[DreamEnd]

Will give more detailed reply after I get home from work.

I mean at this point you are better pming me cuz we are just derailing the thread lol

 

[AshersGirl]

I'm not afraid of what happens after.
I have my beliefs, which do not align with traditional concepts of "god", "religion", "heaven", "hell".

I accept that if there is nothing, well, I'll be none the wiser.

But if your personal beliefs (and believing there is nothing after death is still a belief) bring some small comfort in a world full of pain and suffering, who are any of us negate each other?

Believe what serves you.

Im afraid of the process of dying a long, drawn out, painful death full of suffering (although that's basically what life is - eh, get me in existential crisis ).

 

[Ampsvx123]

There is that one light that shines even in the deepest of all hells - of all abysses. It shines compassionately with no end. It suprises me how i failed to notice it for so long, it shines unto all in the best and the worse. That one light that never ceases. It is not from any earthy religions, these will all end for they were conceived by creatures of dust.

The light on the other hand, it will not stop, it cannot be stopped. All is well, the light will always be. Anyone that seeks it, will find it. In it, Just and unjust are rendered to eternal rest.

 

[DreamEnd]

There is that one light that shines even in the deepest of all hells - of all abysses. It shines compassionately with no end. It suprises me how i failed to notice it for so long, it shines unto all in the best and the worse. That one light that never ceases. It is not from any earthy religions, these will all end for they were conceived by creatures of dust.

The light on the other hand, it will not stop, it cannot be stopped. All is well, the light will always be. Anyone that seeks it, will find it. In it, Just and unjust are rendered to eternal rest.

Very well put. That's what I have heard too

 

[cranberrys]

I used to be like this. I've mostly gotten over the fear of what comes after. If there is a God and if you do go to hell for minor things, I'd much rather be in hell than in heaven with stuck up self righteous assholes. If there is nothing and it's an eternity of emptiness, so be it.
The one thing keeping me from offing myself is the "what if". Especially when it comes to my family, friends, and pets. What if my little brother won't be able to fend for himself, what if my parents don't take care of my cats after I die, what if my parents can't handle another one of their kids dying, etc. What if I get better and I finally am able to have a normal life and have a career?

 

[Olisop21.]

No as I believe death to simply be the absence of everything, nothing more than an eternal, dreamless sleep where all is finally forgotten about and I find comfort in the thought of this. I don't have any interest in suffering in this undesirable existence, no matter what I'd prefer to not exist.

I really hope what you say is true. I feel I've been such a bad person, I deserve to rot in hell and by staying alive I'm just prolonging the agony. I just want peace and I can't have it here. Maybe it is a better place we go to. Unfortunately I'm so negative. I just need to say, f it and do it.

 

[Passersby]

Sure, I'm still here. There's no way to know for sure. It's all speculation. If there is a light I'm thinking I won't go into it because it might be a trap. Again this is speculation as well. I guess we will all find out one day whether we ctb or not.