are you afraid of the uncertainty or the "what if"?

[divinemistress36]

Yes I was floating as energy and I wouldn't remember it because it wouldn't make sense for us to remember something like this. It would ruin the purpose of playing the game if we already knew we played it. We would get tired of it.

Your mind, your body is simply an information processing machine. That information exists independently of you, you are simply the receiver of information, like a brand new tv set. To be able to function; our mind filters some of that information so that we can live functional lives. When you take psychedelics, your mind suddenly starts absorbing all the other frequencies of information that your sober mind does not have access to. When you die, I believe you go back to the source and all of the information you have absorbed throughout different incarnations becomes available to you and you can plan your next journey. This is similar to what indigenous tribes believed for thousands of years.

The reason why we don't remember any of this has to do with how our brain receives information. It's very limiting but it has a function, to make us survive and function.

This is what I believe too

 

[Arachno]

Yes, I'm pretty terrified of the possibility of an afterlife, I really hope that there is nothing after death. As for your second "what if", I try not to really worry about that one, I feel like my life won't be getting much better anytime soon.

 

[mtoro998]

Admittedly, I am afraid of the uncertainty but I might be even more afraid of living my existense here for much longer.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Yes I was floating as energy and I wouldn't remember it because it wouldn't make sense for us to remember something like this.

How come?

When you take psychedelics......................

Now, I understand........... lol

 

[DreamEnd]

How come?


Now, I understand........... lol

Lol everything is energy always

 

[locked*n*loaded]

That information exists independently of you

I don't believe in a fourth dimension. Sorry. It is conceivable that you could gather no information during your "stay" here on earth. All that would take is for outside intervention to place you into a comatose state for the entirety of your life and feed you intravenously to keep you alive. You would still age and die at some point. My point is that information isn't some separate entity existing alongside all of us. It just is. We make information. Nature makes information. Life isn't some game. For life to be a game, it would have to have been conceived by some other unknown "party" in the universe, a god, or God to many, and that I do not believe. You start as nothing. You're around for a while. You go back to nothing. Your identity only comes about because you came into being through actions of others here in THIS reality. You did not exist in any way, shape, or form, before creation, or should I say procreation. The energy within you is created by the actions of your cells and bodily chemicals. Of course, again, you're free to believe whatever it is you want, or need, to believe.

Lol everything is energy always

Not as a separate entity of identity.

 

[Proxycake]

They come in sudden flashes, sometimes I will fear the instance of me dying and there being nothing--but most of the time, I don't care.

 

[DreamEnd]

I don't believe in a fourth dimension. Sorry. It is conceivable that you could gather no information during your "stay" here on earth. All that would take is for outside intervention to place you into a comatose state for the entirety of your life and feed you intravenously to keep you alive

That would be like a broken tv. Just because your tv is broken doesn't mean the information doesn't exist independently. It only means that because of your incapacity you aren't able to access that information but it's still there. Again psychedelic experiences show that there are levels to the information that can be received and the reality is much stranger and larger than a sober mind can perceive.

. You would still age and die at some point. My point is that information isn't some separate entity existing alongside all of us. It just is. We make information. Nature makes information.

Again the brain is just a receiver. You are simply receiving information. Like a tv set.

Life isn't some game. For life to be a game, it would have to have been conceived by some other unknown "party" in the universe, a god, or God to many, and that I do not believe.

It could very well be that the soul of the person designs the plan for a reincarnation. Or it could be something else like a higher power but you are part of everything anyways. You only feel the disconnection while you are alive.

You start as nothing. You're around for a while. You go back to nothing. Your identity only comes about because you came into being through actions of others here in THIS reality. You did not exist in any way, shape, or form, before creation, or should I say procreation. The energy within you is created by the actions of your cells and bodily chemicals. Of course, again, you're free to believe whatever it is you want, or need, to believe.

Fair enough that is the scientific view point. I strongly believe though that parts of your personality are what makes up your soul and that goes beyond the flesh and into the eternity of being and nonbeing.

Not as a separate entity of identity.

Einstein said, "Everything is energy and that's all there is to it. Match the frequency of the reality you want and you cannot help but get that reality. It can be no other way. This is not philosophy. This is physics."

 

[wagner2029]

but what a mess.
When the discussion moves from materiality to the field of imagination, the conversation loses meaning, everyone says what they believe and it's over,
The fact is that there is no proof, anything that is said about life after death is mere speculation.

 

[Passersby]

Yeah, theres nowhere left to go with this topic because it's all personal opinions etc and no way to know for sure until we get there. Then if there is nothing and no consciousness we won't even have the ability to know we made it and that theres nothing. I still think about it a lot and speculate since I have a " ctb brain " that allows me to obsess about what's on the other side even though it can also be torture sometimes.

 

[wagner2029]

I still think about it a lot and speculate since I have a " ctb brain " that allows me to obsess about what's on the other side even though it can also be torture sometimes.

The same thing happens to me, I found myself thinking about what will happen after I die, and then I think: that doesn't make any sense.

 

[sserafim]

Yeah, I'm really scared about what happens after death. My Friend has gotten all religious on me (I liked him better when he wasn't religious) He's making me scared of Hell.

Hell doesn't exist, it's actually this world. Hell is other people

There is no writing anywhere that says your ctb is going to cause mental or physical disability in the next life. I don't think you need to worry about it. Even though I'm still worried about it too being reborn with a mental disability just because I ended my life too soon. Although I haven't seen any writing that suggests that that's the case.

Why do you think people were born with one in this life?

 

[Ulrich]

Again psychedelic experiences show that there are levels to the information that can be received and the reality is much stranger and larger than a sober mind can perceive.

How can you prove this claim? Genuinely curious.

 

[DreamEnd]

How can you prove this claim? Genuinely curious.

Well if you really wanna know you can listen to some Terrence McKenna lectures on it. He was a true psychedelic adventurer and you would be better off going straight to him. I can pm you some good videos of him talking about it. But I think it's something one can experience on large doses of mushrooms or lsd. You can't prove it like scientifically of course since it is only in the realm of one's psychological and spiritual experience

 

[Ulrich]

Well if you really wanna know you can listen to some Terrence McKenna lectures on it. He was a true psychedelic adventurer and you would be better off going straight to him. I can pm you some good videos of him talking about it. But I think it's something one can experience on large doses of mushrooms or lsd. You can't prove it like scientifically of course since it is only in the realm of one's psychological and spiritual experience

Okay. But if it can't be proven scientifically, how can we establish the claim to be true if it is based on psychology or spiritual experience, something which is, by your definition, outside of the scope of empirical observation. How can we hold such a claim to a rational standard without rejecting it outright? Without determining this, can we really say that there are spiritual 'truths'?

 

[DreamEnd]

Okay. But if it can't be proven scientifically, how can we establish the claim to be true if it is based on psychology or spiritual experience, something which is, by your definition, outside of the scope of empirical observation. How can we hold such a claim to a rational standard without rejecting it outright? Without determining this, can we really say that there are spiritual 'truths'?

You can't but if a million people take these hallucinogens and 80% tell you the same thing about the "truth" (im exaggerating) as well as multiple accounts of spiritual phenomenon by indigenous tribes I think it's fairly easy to say what the consensus is there. For instance you have legitimate evidence that something like 70% of lsd users become religious after their experience. I think there is something to the experience and the multitude of it that we can take into account when we discuss the reality of this world we are in.

For instance, in shamanic traditions whos lineage is hundreds if not thousands year old it's not even a question that spiritual world exists. The shamans who drink ayahuasca connect with it and to them it's 100% real.

 

[Ulrich]

You can't but if a million people take these hallucinogens and 80% tell you the same thing about the "truth" (im exaggerating) as well as multiple accounts of spiritual phenomenon by indigenous tribes I think it's fairly easy to say what the consensus is there.

It could be a property of the drug/reaction to the drug. True, it is interesting that people report the same experiences and 'revelations', but it's still quite an epistemic leap of faith to claim that because X number of accounts in a certain population report the same revelation, that it is then true, or at least highly probable.

For instance, in shamanic traditions whos lineage is hundreds if not thousands year old it's not even a question that spiritual world exists. The shamans who drink ayahuasca connect with it and to them it's 100% real.

Even if it real to them, it does not equate to a material fact.

 

[DreamEnd]

It could be a property of the drug/reaction to the drug. True, it is interesting that people report the same experiences and 'revelations', but it's still quite an epistemic leap of faith to claim that because X number of accounts in a certain population report the same revelation, that it is then true, or at least highly probable.

Its not something that can be rationally explained, its something one has to feel, ego death, being a part of everything

Even if it real to them, it does not equate to a material fact.

Well, the material fact is that they utilize that which they see in the spiritual world to deal with what they have in the physical world. In the context of an ayahuasca ceremony, they keep the space, keep bad spirits away, and bad spirits can really mess with people, you can see it a lot in ayahuasca ceremonies, What can look like a psychotic episode may just be an interference of negative energies that are not seen with a sober mind yet they do exist and it is a role of a shaman to expell them. So, while someone cries and goes into rage in the physical world, what is happening to them on the level that a shaman sees them is quite different but one affects the other so to say

Edit: There are good shamans and bad shamans(brujos). The drug can be the same but if you sit near either of them you will clearly feel the difference in their intention. This is a reflection of how the spiritual world interacts with the physical

 

[Ulrich]

Its not something that can be rationally explained, its something one has to feel, ego death, being a part of everything

So if a claim cannot be rationally justified, can't it also be discarded on a rational basis?

 

[DreamEnd]

So if a claim cannot be rationally justified, can't it also be discarded on a rational basis?

there is nothing rational or logical about a mythical experience. It is a mythical experience for a reason, it defies logic and goes beyond our ordinary perception. These experiences cannot be logicall or rationally justified because it would limit them greatly

 

[MatrixPrisoner]

Not even in the least bit. But I still plan to leave a cremation request in the rare chance that the brain can still use electric signals to register internal consciousness after death. I would hate to have to lay there, being able to do nothing, and having wait for my brain to fully decompose.

But as for any kind of spiritual afterlife, I don't believe in it whatsoever. I am convinced that ceasing to exist is just pure nothingness. Just like before we were born.

 

[Lost Magic]

I see death as an adventure. I am going to die one day anyway, so why worry? Death is just a part of living.

 

[Ulrich]

there is nothing rational or logical about a mythical experience. It is a mythical experience for a reason, it defies logic and goes beyond our ordinary perception. These experiences cannot be logicall or rationally justified because it would limit them greatly

In other words, you need to be part of the in-group of recreational drug users to understand. Again, it is a far stretch to claim that such and such is the case because it cannot be rationally enumerated. This is the essence of religious miracles. We try to develop self-contained theories which cannot be contradicted, and hence use terms which lack semantic weight.

 

[DreamEnd]

In other words, you need to be part of the in-group of recreational drug users to understand.

How else are you going to understand something that requires you to actually experience it to understand it? Do you rely on other peoples explanations to understand what sex is? No you feel it

Again, it is a far stretch to claim that such and such is the case because it cannot be rationally enumerated.

Just because something can't be explained rationally doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Rationality isn't the end all be all of all possible explanations

This is the essence of religious miracles

No. Religious miracles are stupid. Someone claiming they were healed because they went to church is different from someone going to an ayahuasca retreat and healing their childhood trauma

. We try to develop self-contained theories which cannot be contradicted, and hence use terms which lack semantic weight.

I mean you are free to believe what you believe. I used to be an atheist too until I realized how limiting the worldview is. And those indigenous people who have studied the spiritual world for hundreds of years and have traditions dating back thousands of years perfectly know with the usage of hallucinogens that there is way more to this reality than just what we can perceive since our perception is purely made for functioning. And when you raise the veil you see the world for how it truly is. This isn't scientific but it's the truth. I mean ayahuasca is literally translated to the vine of death. You have people experience connecting with deceased ones under the influence of Atahuasca. If they didn't believe in the afterlife existence before they certainly did after

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10758466/

Our results indicate that APDs occur to more than half of those participating in ayahuasca ceremonies, typically manifest as strong and transformative experiences, and are associated with an increased sense of transcending death (study 1), as well as the certainty in the continuation of consciousness after death (study 2).


" My brain is only a receiver, in the Universe there is a core from which we obtain knowledge, strength and inspiration. I have not penetrated into the secrets of this core, but I know that it exists."- tesla

 

[Ulrich]

How else are you going to understand something that requires you to actually experience it to understand it?

A highschooler could probably come to understand basic quantum mechanics, even if he isn't a physicist.

Just because something can't be explained rationally doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Rationality isn't the end all be all of all possible explanations.

Devil's proof. So if rationality fails, we are to rely on something which defies all forms of logical enumeration?

No. Religious miracles are stupid. Someone claiming they were healed because they went to church is different from someone going to an ayahuasca retreat and healing their childhood trauma

I don't really see how.

 

[DreamEnd]

A highschooler could probably come to understand basic quantum mechanics, even if he isn't a physicist.

But not with an example of sex. So you admit that some things can be understood while others you have to feel them?

Devil's proof. So if rationality fails, we are to rely on something which defies all forms of logical enumeration?

I mean thats what it is by definition. Something that defies all logic. Science has gone so far as to define all phenomenon it cannot understand or describe as "coincidences" for instance when in reality tbere is much more going on in a metaphysical level that is causing them.

Synchronicity: An Acausal Connecting Principle – International Association of Analytical Psychology – IAAP

iaap.org

"
key signature concept in Jung's vision of the world, synchronicity was defined by Jung as an acausal connecting principle, whereby internal, psychological events are linked to external world events by meaningful coincidences rather than causal chains. While of profound theoretical significance, anecdotal clinical evidence served as primary descriptive examples in Jung's writing. Perhaps the most well-known case involved a patient's dream of being given a piece of gold jewelry in the shape of a scarab beetle being told as a knocking on Jung's consulting room window drew his attention to a scarabaeid beetle (a rose-chafer) seeking entry. Jung caught the beetle, handed it to the patient which had a positive, transformative impact on the case, as it broke through her defensive rationalism according to Jung (1960, 2"

The connection of internal to external suggests a principle that cannot be confirmed or explained through scientific understanding and yet it still exists.

I don't really see how.

Well. If you care to read about it they have their science. The western world has one type of science and they have their science that involves combining the spiritual body of a human to that of one in the physical realm. And they are quite good at it. In fact there is about 70% rehab success rate at one of the rehab centers that serves ayahuasca. Let alone the studies we have showing its effect on depression etc. way better outcomes than our modern science has done with anti depressants. So if you look purely outcomes than those shamans seem to be knowing the world better than we do and it shows.

 

[traintracks.mp3]

I personally am not. I feel like anything to drag me out of this monotony would be welcomed. Even if it was the fiery pits of hell, I would be fine with it.

 

[Ulrich]

But not with an example of sex. So you admit that some things can be understood while others you have to feel them?

Just because something is not false does not mean it is necessarily true. It can also be meaningless. I'm not sure how you could corroborate an epistemic claim with feeling alone.

Well. If you care to read about it they have their science. The western world has one type of science and they have their science that involves combining the spiritual body of a human to that of one in the physical realm. And they are quite good at it. In fact there is about 70% rehab success rate at one of the rehab centers that serves ayahuasca.

I don't consider that a science. Just as psychotherapy is not a science, even if it helps people.

So if you look purely outcomes than those shamans seem to be knowing the world better than we do and it shows.

Even if evidence fits your preconception of reality, it does not mean it is empirically valid. If you take this evidence at face value, then of course it seems that they know a lot more than we do. If you reject the initial premise, however, it can simply be rejected as unsound. Are we to claim that spiritual healers and pastors know more than doctors because their patients have a higher recovery rate?

 

[passivethought121]

The only "what if" I fear is life. That being "What if I fuck up and survive"

 

[Let Me Go]

I am …… not afraid of what happens after death at all. I really look forward to the afterlife actually. There's no uncertainty on my part. Zero. None. Nada. Zilch. Nope. I just wish I had more energy to ctb so that I can return to source once again, much much sooner.

I think because I'm so sure of it, this is why I'm so un-afraid. It seems to make all the what if questions… matter …. less.