Are we too harsh to people who have procreated in this forum?

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

Here are some. I don't agree on some but you have asked for it.
Antinatalism makes people depressed. It focuses too much on the negative side of life. Having this pessimistic view of life could make your depression worse. This argument has flaws. But it is true that the vast majority of people are glad that they live. And they are glad that they were born. They are thankful that their parents procreated. Another one is life has inherent value. Being conscious can be either a blessing or a huge pain. Antinatalism as a philosophy comes especially from people who are in a lot of pain. Maybe these people cannot judge whether life in general has this inherent value because they are too biased by their negative experiences. The pain of these people might be neglectable. They still can kill themselves if they don't like life. Why denying happy people the possibility of existing when the unhappy still can ctb?

Yeah I can imagine this point of view is not very popular in a suicide forum. I emphasize this is not my opinion I just repeat some arguments which I have thought about or read.

The thing that I have heard a lot in arguments against antinatalism is that those who simply hate life can kill ourselves rather than ruin everyone else's fun by delving into pessimistic philosophies.

Suicide is obscufated in illegality, and even in most countries where it is decriminalised, good samaratin laws force bystanders, law enforcement, medical staff, etc to prevent the act. Regulations and laws ensconse matters of suicidality in such a way that self-harming individuals can lose their autonomy and human rights after a failed attempt, or a confession of the intent to die. Therefore, I don't believe it's a very compelling argument to suggest that unhappy people should just ctb.

As we all know, it is very difficult to actually kill yourself even if we ignore all the beurocratic red tape and legal loopholes enabling the detainment of suicidal people by police and hospital staff, as the act of terminating one's existence goes against every innate survival instincts.

The argument would hold more salt and tenability if a single governing body or human settlement existed who ever allowed someone to kill themselves for the sole reason of unhappiness. As it stands, most countries won't even allow those who are already dying the privledge of a peaceful ending if they seek it.

Even then, the argument has several other holes that can be poked through. Rather than acknowledging the issues that can make some lives miserable and perturb the human mind and body on a systemic scale, they purport that it is an individual problem, and the solution to that problem is for the individual to die rather than any of their concerns being properly addressed. This rash conclusion isn't very ethical or logical especially when one has painted every human who dabbles in antintalist philosophy with one brush stroke.

 

[noname223]

The thing that I have heard a lot in arguments against antinatalism is that those who simply hate life can kill ourselves rather than ruin everyone else's fun by delving into pessimistic philosophies.

Suicide is obscufated in illegality, and even in most countries where it is decriminalised, good samaratin laws force bystanders, law enforcement, medical staff, etc to prevent the act. Regulations and laws ensconse matters of suicidality in such a way that self-harming individuals can lose their autonomy and human rights after a failed attempt, or a confession of the intent to die. Therefore, I don't believe it's a very compelling argument to suggest that unhappy people should just ctb.

As we all know, it is very difficult to actually kill yourself even if we ignore all the beurocratic red tape and legal loopholes enabling the detainment of suicidal people by police and hospital staff, as the act of terminating one's existence goes against every innate survival instincts.

The argument would hold more salt and tenability if a single governing body or human settlement existed who ever allowed someone to kill themselves for the sole reason of unhappiness. As it stands, most countries won't even allow those who are already dying the privledge of a peaceful ending if they seek it.

Even then, the argument has several other holes that can be poked through. Rather than acknowledging the issues that can make some lives miserable and perturb the human mind and body on a systemic scale, they purport that it is an individual problem, and the solution to that problem is for the individual to die rather than any of their concerns being properly addressed. This rash conclusion isn't very ethical or logical especially when one has painted every human who dabbles in antintalist philosophy with one brush stroke.

I agree a lot. This would be also my main criticism. If they say unhappy people still can kill themselves then they must also enabling liberal assisted suicide laws. Otherwise this argument is very hypocrtitical.

 

[user_name_here]

That's the equivalent to me being suicidal because I'll never be a billionaire, rock star, or professional athlete.

nothing alike, but ok.

 

[summers]

nothing alike, but ok.

Why are the things I want any less valid than someone wanting a child? Because I'm not killing myself over my own failures?

 

[orange]

Why are the things I want any less valid than someone wanting a child? Because I'm not killing myself over my own failures?

then what are you killing yourself over

 

[summers]

then what are you killing yourself over

Getting older.

 

[Grey-zoner]

failure to cope with a normal ass thing that happens

Naw, I think it's pretty reasonable. Cancer is also normal, and old age is like a slowly encroaching cancer. We weren't meant to live so long the way we age so poorly.

 

[summers]

failure to cope with a normal ass thing that happens

I never said I wasn't a failure.

 

[orange]

Naw, I think it's pretty reasonable. Cancer is also normal, and old age is like a slowly encroaching cancer. We weren't meant to live so long the way we age so poorly.

I'm not judging, my point is that he is

I never said I wasn't a failure.

u did tho

 

[user_name_here]

Why are the things I want any less valid than someone wanting a child? Because I'm not killing myself over my own failures?

nobody is saying your desire isn't valid. but the 2 things are just not the same.

Your desire to be a millionaire and somebody's desire to reproduce and bring life into the world are vastly different by the very nature and in what they entail.

 

[summers]

u did tho

Literally quoted from my post "Because I'm not killing myself over my own failures?"

 

[summers]

but ur killing yourself over getting old and unability to cope with life is a failure

You're talking in circles. I said I was a failure. I'm not a million/billionaire, not a musician, not an athlete/racer, I'm getting old to the point I don't want to live anymore. Sorry we can't all be the superstar you are in life.

 

[orange]

You're talking in circles. I said I was a failure. I'm not a million/billionaire, not a musician, not an athlete/racer, I'm getting old to the point I don't want to live anymore. Sorry we can't all be the superstar you are in life.

you're forgiven king