Discussion Anyone else suicidal because of low energy/unrefreshing sleep?

[whatevs]

When I strip down my desperate situation to the bare minimum I always find that being exhausted and haggard every day is the actual cause of friendlessness, sexlessness, loss of ability to pursue monetizable interests, and lack of personal autonomy (living with parents).

Been like this for 10 years now. It never goes away. Slow death, visible decay. You are alive but you aren't. Years pass and not much is accomplished. Every day is a struggle just to make life bearable, while others are not burdened and struggle with what is intended, competition and professions. But if I feel like shit every day, I couldn't care less about such things, let's get real.

I honestly think external victories are not worth a sweat compared with just feeling well, as Chester Bennington proved, among many others. That shit doesn't matter in the slightest when you know how it feels to be chronically ill.

 

[lifehalffull]

I think so.
I was diagnosed with sleep apnea last year, and I ended up getting surgery to improve my response to CPAP treatment. After we discussed my history, the surgeon told me it's likely my sleep apnea began as a child. Personally, I began noticing issues with sleep around the onset of puberty, and that's also when I began to experience unexplained depressive bouts and withdrew from things that used to interest me, like piano, studying, and team sports. Several years later, age 18, I often woke up with my bedsheets violently torn off the bed, I dropped out of college for the first time, and I began reading ASH/ASM late at night.

After a few months successfully using CPAP (actually, BiPAP), I'm starting to feel pretty good. I've stopped punching and slapping myself, I feel smarter and more alert, and I feel a lot more calm when I'm in public. I'm pretty sure my fight or flight instincts were chronically activated most of the time for about 20 years, contributing to a mostly withdrawn lifestyle.

I'm certain that if my jaws had formed just a little better when I was developing, or if diagnostic screening didn't miss 80% of sleep apnea (that's an estimated 23+ million people, according to the American Academy of Sleep Medicine), my life, and a lot of people's lives, would be much different today. In "The Association Between Sleep Apnea and Suicidal Thought and Behavior: An Analysis of National Survey Data", Bishop and team found that suicide ideation and planning were roughly twice as common among survey respondents who purported to have sleep apnea. Considering how many undiagnosed people there are, and how more than half of people who have sleep apnea fail to use their machines, I think the impact of sleep apnea and bad sleep in general on unpleasant life circumstances and suicide risk is severely underestimated.

 

[whatevs]

I'm actually trying the respiratory therapy route, unfortunately it seems for me it isn't related with apnea, since the pulse oximeter isn't showing that much of a problem in that regard in the night recordings. The 3D scan shows that my nasal passages are narrow, and my throat is tiny due to an underdeveloped jaw making the tongue block it, but apparently I have NO apnea at night...

So I'm fucked. I have the chronic fight and fight response you describe, etc, but I don't know why and can't treat it.

 

[lifehalffull]

Sorry you're going through that.
Did your sleep test score RERAs (respiratory effort related arousal)? It's possible that you could have UARS, upper airway resistance syndrome. UARS patients may not meet the diagnostic threshold of apnea and hypopnea events to be diagnosed for sleep apnea under traditional criteria, but still experience many RERAs, which have a similar undesirable influence on sleep architecture. Unfortunately, a lot of sleep clinics don't look for those when they review your polysomnogram.
One of the things that noticeably improved my sleep quality before I had better luck with my machine were internal nasal dilators that prop the nostrils open. With a reduced nasal airway like I had, you might benefit too. And actually, I notice even today that the PAP pressures I needed are significantly lower when I use a nasal dilator.

For a syndrome that affects tens of millions in the US alone, it's crazy that treatment isn't better in this area. Affordable home testing, machines available without prescription, etc.

 

[whatevs]

Sorry you're going through that.
Did your sleep test score RERAs (respiratory effort related arousal)? It's possible that you could have UARS, upper airway resistance syndrome. UARS patients may not meet the diagnostic threshold of apnea and hypopnea events to be diagnosed for sleep apnea under traditional criteria, but still experience many RERAs, which have a similar undesirable influence on sleep architecture. Unfortunately, a lot of sleep clinics don't look for those when they review your polysomnogram.
One of the things that noticeably improved my sleep quality before I had better luck with my machine were internal nasal dilators that prop the nostrils open. With a reduced nasal airway like I had, you might benefit too. And actually, I notice even today that the PAP pressures I needed are significantly lower when I use a nasal dilator.

For a syndrome that affects tens of millions in the US alone, it's crazy that treatment isn't better in this area. Affordable home testing, machines available without prescription, etc.

I'd definitely bring this up in my next appointment and ask for a final and thorough sleep study.

 

[Sunset Limited]

Drug or alcohol abuse can also significantly reduce deep sleep quality. Sleep is integral to a fulfilling life. Many factors such as inactivity, sexual dissatisfaction, and asociality affect sleep. The downside is that if you can't sleep, you lose the power to fix your life. I think the human body is too problematic. Still no instructions for use.

 

[myopybyproxy]

yes, about 50% of the reason.

what you said in the OP made me realise - low energy is at the root of all my personal problems. gender dysphoria, eating disorder, self harm, substance misuse - all because I haven't the energy to make constructive changes to my life. self sabotage is the path of least resistance.

same with lack of hobbies or direction / purpose - anything I might possibly consider I immediately reject because it takes too much effort - and I'm too lazy to put in the effort.

and of course interacting with other people and building meaningful connections is a joke when you're so tired your eyes hurt and there is a parasite gnawing away at your brain and breathing takes effort. (no, I do not have asthma.)

can't do much about society. but maybe if I had more energy I would change society in some small way that would make it worth living.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

When I strip down my desperate situation to the bare minimum I always find that being exhausted and haggard every day is the actual cause of friendlessness, sexlessness, loss of ability to pursue monetizable interests, and lack of personal autonomy (living with parents).

Been like this for 10 years now. It never goes away. Slow death, visible decay. You are alive but you aren't. Years pass and not much is accomplished. Every day is a struggle just to make life bearable, while others are not burdened and struggle with what is intended, competition and professions. But if I feel like shit every day, I couldn't care less about such things, let's get real.

I honestly think external victories are not worth a sweat compared with just feeling well, as Chester Bennington proved, among many others. That shit doesn't matter in the slightest when you know how it feels to be chronically ill.

Feeling well is what is most important. There is one place in the world I can go where I feel at peace and if I could stay there forever ♾ the odds of me to CTB would be low.

I cannot go there no way no how due to Covid no way no now.

 

[Ethereal Knight]

Sorry you're going through that.
Did your sleep test score RERAs (respiratory effort related arousal)? It's possible that you could have UARS, upper airway resistance syndrome. UARS patients may not meet the diagnostic threshold of apnea and hypopnea events to be diagnosed for sleep apnea under traditional criteria, but still experience many RERAs, which have a similar undesirable influence on sleep architecture. Unfortunately, a lot of sleep clinics don't look for those when they review your polysomnogram.
One of the things that noticeably improved my sleep quality before I had better luck with my machine were internal nasal dilators that prop the nostrils open. With a reduced nasal airway like I had, you might benefit too. And actually, I notice even today that the PAP pressures I needed are significantly lower when I use a nasal dilator.

For a syndrome that affects tens of millions in the US alone, it's crazy that treatment isn't better in this area. Affordable home testing, machines available without prescription, etc.

very informative. thank you for that.

I wish I had enough money to afford a sleep test.

 

[☆AwaitingEntropy☆]

Yes. When I really think about it, low energy is a main source. I'm always tired, and it's been this way since I was a teen.

It doesn't matter if I get 4 hours of sleep or 8, if I'm depressed or in a good mental place, if I'm overweight and struggling with my diet, or eating healthier and exercising. I'm always so tired.

I don't have any extra energy to socialize, or achieve my goals, or improve my health. So I just sit here, stagnant and rotting.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

I had low energy and fatigue for decades… Poisons everything
Unfortunately I think I felt like I was just a lazy person and blamed myself and still do… Longing for everlasting sleep

 

[IKnowIt'sOver]

Hey @whatevs, I found you on another thread. I just felt compelled to say that your experience is similar to mine and that chronic fatigue along with, in my case, chronic pain and digestive problems, of an unknown cause are why I want to die.

In addition to seeing many doctors I've also done a couple sleep studies and used a mouthpiece for my very mild sleep apnea (it didn't do anything). The only things that have helped are Amitriptlyine and, for the pain, acupuncture. Though I may need to get off of Amitryptyline since I suspect it is contributing to my digestive problems which have reached a boiling point, and so I thank @lifehalffull for his/her suggestions of alternatives.

You mention you have social anxiety. I also was an abnormally anxious child, and had bad social and generalized anxiety that started in earnest in high school. At least part of that anxiety likely comes from experience with bullying when I was young. One of my current theories to explain my maladies is that they come from chronically being in a fearful, aroused, "fight-or-flight" state, which is what anxiety is. The body and brain become habituated to that level of anxiety and activation, and lose the ability to calibrate their energy level. I was very resistant to non-physical explanations of my illness at first, and am not 100% convinced of this theory, but I thought it was worth mentioning because you said you had experience with anxiety problems.

 

[TooConscious]

I am similar.

Despite health problems and being on heavy sedative medications , it was the way they chose to torture me.

I was always a anxious kid so probably didn't sleep 8 hours a night being forced up for school at 7 am and I remember some.nights laying awake of the worry of school the next day.

It's downright evil this society and this is why I had to stop coming here because it reminds to much of what life we were.forced into.

So with not sleeping 8 hours a night over my 3 decades I am just wanting to catch up but can't because of work and tending to needs to survive and even wasted many years helping ungrateful emotionally manipulative older relatives.

Society doesn't leave you room to sleep or even rest well if you're cursed with empathy.

The masses are scum for allowing this. I no longer have any compassion for a human being.
Like most people here despite being in a better situation than many others... They have supportive parents and a stable home.bur the.stability has actually made them 'bored' to put it simply so they attention seek any and every way they can.

If I'd have just had 8 hours sleep none of the damage. It could've been prevented
As I notice after a good night's sleep with no night terror I'm ok and have a productive day and even help others.

But for example having two hours tonight I can only focus on the truth , the truth that nearly every human being is horrible vile and cowardly and pathetic. And I'm sick of having empathy in a world without it.
So sleep is a drug I guess when it gives you a distorted view that the world isn't so bad.

 

[whatevs]

@IKnowIt'sOver Hah! I just left my first proper job after measly 10 months because of that! I'm trying to recover but if I don't, the last years shouldn't be wasted stressed and fearful. Yeah, I concur, it seems logical that being in intense worry and fear most of the time could have caused nervous/neurological damage. Currently I'm doing conscious breathing every day on top of avoiding social contact to reset a bit after a somewhat negative experience at work where I was either way stressing excessively (I know it was 70% my fault, some people were vile and the job itself was excessive but I know I worry and stress even in neutral contexts).

So, meditation, conscious breathing. I also am going to therapists for my painful dick and a new age healer for the chronic fatigue. So far the breathing and physio seem beneficial.