Anybody else think corona is a scam?

[Soul]

Restarting America Means People Will Die. So When Do We Do It? (Published 2020)

Five thinkers weigh moral choices in a crisis.

www.nytimes.com

Long but interesting.

 

[BlackPoppet]

I don't think its a scam I think its a real problem but I do think that The U.S.A is going to use this ordeal to slowly strip our rights away and condition us to be subconsciously okay with it.

Yes people will beg their "Daddy Government " to keep them safe and secure. Like scared sheep.... not realising that the Shepard is the wolf!
Well as the saying goes " Those who trade in their liberty and freedom for a modicum of security, deserve neither "
The people will beg for freedom to be taken away, just as long as the government is there to protect them. Tragic!!

 

[Halnas]

There is nothing to stop people leaving their phones at home.

Yet.
If they already implement all the tracking and health app surveillance — and nearly everyone has their phone with them all the time anyway — there is nothing stopping them to force you by law to carry it with you. Just like you are forced to carry a driving license when driving a car or an ID card at demonstrations, etc.

Just wait for autumn when the next wave hits. We will see more nonsense laws and it again won't be serious enough to crash the system. It's such a perfect opportunity for governments all around the world to make you their cattle. And of course there will be those globalism worshiping retards using it to force their agenda even more. Even thought that globalism is the reason why coronavirus could spread all over the world in the first place.

 

[BlackPoppet]

I don't really see how they can force people to carry their phones through force of law. People should throw their phones away. If that's a possibility. Like a mass throwing away of phones. I know that stupid laws and bills are passed at the moment. They are abusing their power forcing free people to bend to their will.
what about people who don't have mobile phones?
Driving licences are a necessity. Carrying a multi media device around isn't. But yeah I do see your point. I wouldn't put anything past these megalomaniac.

Yet.
If they already implement all the tracking and health app surveillance — and nearly everyone has their phone with them all the time anyway — there is nothing stopping them to force you by law to carry it with you. Just like you are forced to carry a driving license when driving a car or an ID card at demonstrations, etc.

Just wait for autumn when the next wave hits. We will see more nonsense laws and it again won't be serious enough to crash the system. It's such a perfect opportunity for governments all around the world to make you their cattle. And of course there will be those globalism worshiping retards using it to force their agenda even more. Even thought that globalism is the reason why coronavirus could spread all over the world in the first place.

I cannot stand Globalisation! Trust me. Thanks to Count Coudenhove Kalergi! Globalism is up and running! It was his dream to have a globalised world. Angela Merkel excepted a Kalergi award a couple of years ago. Although they call it something else now. All of our leaders have sold us out! They need to remember that they serve us, not the other way round. If we acquiesce to this, then we are accessories by proxy, to this insanity. But you are right.

 

[Now_And_Then]

It has been proven or at least inquired by health ministers that the media and even the medics are putting up the numbers by falsely writing off a lot of deaths as being FROM the Coronavirus , instead of writing them.off as actually dying from a pre existing ill ness and just having strains of the Coronavirus

 

[BlackPoppet]

It has been proven or at least inquired by health ministers that the media and even the medics are putting up the numbers by falsely writing off a lot of deaths as being FROM the Coronavirus , instead of writing them.off as actually dying from a pre existing ill ness and just having strains of the Coronavirus

Yes exactly!!

 

[Halnas]

I don't really see how they can force people to carry their phones through force of law. People should throw their phones away.

Do you know eCall? When your car makes an automated emergency call in case of an accident? It is mandatory for every new manufactured car since 2018 in the EU. Every single car is therefor connected with the mobile phone network and able to be tracked. It just needs one law made at some convenient time and you can track every car in your country. All the technology is already there and implemented and ready to go. There is no way for you to opt-out. You buy a car that's newer than 2018? You got it, no way to turn it off.

Another thing is money. Remember when every bank note was redeemable in gold? That was the case for hundreds of years. Currencies were baked by actual assets. Then they dropped that, so it was just worthless paper based on trust now, rather than a real value. Now we are in the middle of dropping even that, and instead of paper, which is at least physical and you can keep it at home, it's a number in a computer. Won't take long and paper money is gone. This whole thing was a very slow progress over 80 years.

Now we have smartphones. Everybody is carrying one. The government tracks it and gives you an app to make them able to track your health.
They won't make carrying a smartphone mandatory from one day to another. It will be a slow transition to it. On the second coronawave it will be optional, but you will get some goodies if you let them track you and might be able to visit more places. At some point later they will make their App mandatory and installed by default, like AMBER system is in the USA.

It has been proven or at least inquired by health ministers that the media and even the medics are putting up the numbers by falsely writing off a lot of deaths as being FROM the Coronavirus , instead of writing them.off as actually dying from a pre existing ill ness and just having strains of the Coronavirus

If someone dies while being infected with CoVid, he is counted as coronavirus death. Even if he died because of an accident (seriously, yes, thats the case at least in the UK).
And i do not trust any of those experts and health ministers, because they first downplayed it during the months when it spread in Asia, then downplayed it while it was arriving in Europe and hit Italy really hard, and then they totally overreacted when it finally arrived in our country.
If that wasn't planned, i don't know what. Such an awful coincidence of total incompetence (didn't even close borders to italy when they spreaded it around) and suddenly they care super much, so much that they have to pass laws that would never pass during ordinary times.

 

[BlackPoppet]

Do you know eCall? When your car makes an automated emergency call in case of an accident? It is mandatory for every new manufactured car since 2018 in the EU. Every single car is therefor connected with the mobile phone network and able to be tracked. It just needs one law made at some convenient time and you can track every car in your country. All the technology is already there and implemented and ready to go. There is no way for you to opt-out. You buy a car that's newer than 2018? You got it, no way to turn it off.

Another thing is money. Remember when every bank note was redeemable in gold? That was the case for hundreds of years. Currencies were baked by actual assets. Then they dropped that, so it was just worthless paper based on trust now, rather than a real value. Now we are in the middle of dropping even that, and instead of paper, which is at least physical and you can keep it at home, it's a number in a computer. Won't take long and paper money is gone. This whole thing was a very slow progress over 80 years.

Now we have smartphones. Everybody is carrying one. The government tracks it and gives you an app to make them able to track your health.
They won't make carrying a smartphone mandatory from one day to another. It will be a slow transition to it. On the second coronawave it will be optional, but you will get some goodies if you let them track you and might be able to visit more places. At some point later they will make their App mandatory and installed by default, like AMBER system is in the USA.


If someone dies while being infected with CoVid, he is counted as coronavirus death. Even if he died because of an accident (seriously, yes, thats the case at least in the UK).
And i do not trust any of those experts and health ministers, because they first downplayed it during the months when it spread in Asia, then downplayed it while it was arriving in Europe and hit Italy really hard, and then they totally overreacted when it finally arrived in our country.
If that wasn't planned, i don't know what. Such an awful coincidence of total incompetence (didn't even close borders to italy when they spreaded it around) and suddenly they care super much, so much that they have to pass laws that would never pass during ordinary times.

They will drop paper money and contactless payment with phone is already here. ( holdables) then it's wearables.... actually on the skin. One has been designed already. Then it's the microchip. Everything will be on the chip apparently. Health records, opening your front door, cash etc. The chip will track your every move allegedly and can allegedly modify behaviour too. This is what this is building up to!! Totalitarianism!
Dropping money is because they will say that it carries germs. And covid 19 will be transmitted around again. Great excuse for them eh? So what perfect way to introduce the chip. By the way, prototype for the chip is already here. Google has one in capsule form that is to be taken every day.
apparently if you don't take the chip, you won't be able to buy, sell or trade! I've known about this for the last 8 years. This has contributed to my mental health issues.
comlete and total control of the human cattle.
just talking about it upsets me.
No I've not heard of ecall but thank you for telling me. I love to learn. To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
I wonder if the vaccine for this corona virus will contain a chip! Hmm?! I wonder!

 

[Mrs.O'Leary'sCow]

Sounds like it might be time for the well-regulated militia to step up to the plate and blast the rot out of our public institutions.

Ammon Bundy: ‘I Want the Virus Now’

The “patriot movement” leader is pursuing his anti-government worldview into organized defiance of Idaho’s social-isolation orders.

nymag.com

 

[BlackPoppet]

Sounds like it might be time for the well-regulated militia to step up to the plate and blast the rot out of our public institutions.

Ammon Bundy: ‘I Want the Virus Now’

The “patriot movement” leader is pursuing his anti-government worldview into organized defiance of Idaho’s social-isolation orders.

nymag.com

For sure.
The future is apparently Technocratic! Everything will be run by engineers and tech giants and scientists. We will be ushered into cities, forced to live in shoebox micro apartments on smart grids, our diet will be designed to make us weak and docile and not permitted to go out in nature, we will only see nature through V R headsets.
Funny how we're not allowed to really go out in nature at the moment isn't it..... does anyone see a precedent being set here?

 

[Notwinnernotawin]

No. I think it's a move between the economic and military potentials to control the world population. The U.S., China and Russia are in it, that's for sure.

 

[BlackPoppet]

No. I think it's a move between the economic and military potentials to control the world population. The U.S., China and Russia are in it, that's for sure.

Yes I think there is a plan to control the population. Alongside reducing the population.

 

[ExitStageLeft]

Corona is real, but not as severe as is being reported. The American government engineered it at the former biological warfare laboratory at Fort Detrick, Virginia, and sent it along with operatives to China to compete in the Military World Games just outside Wuhan last October. The agent most immediately responsible for the outbreak in Wuhan is an American soldier named Maatje Benassi, whose cousin Matthew Benassi worked at the aforementioned bioweapons laboratory before the CDC shut it down in the interest of "national security" last August. Benassi was sent to the Games but apparently did not compete in them for some unknown reason.

The "failures" of the American response to corona is a product of the Federal government's pandemic wargaming scenario, "Crimson Contagion", which was conducted starting in January '19.

The "vaping sickness" of last year, which was centered within a few hundred miles of Fort Detrick, was an early outbreak of the virus - it struck primarily in nursing homes where approximately none of the residents vaped - though I do not know whether it was a planned release or an accidental outbreak.

The proximal cause for this "plandemic" is a recession which has been known to be in the works since at least last August, when long-term bond yields inverted (a phenomenon which has predicted 49 of the past 50 recessions), coupled to a declining rate of profit and the need of the capitalist system to spur some "creative destruction" in order to create investment opportunities (historical example: the Marshall Plan). We would currently be in a massive Depression even without the coronavirus. The economies of both the United States and the People's Republic were groaning well before COVID.

What is wanted is not the elimination of money as a totality, but the elimination of cash money and the increase in dependency on credit. What is desired is not the abolition of work, but the abolition of manual labor to as great an extent as possible, which entails social costs far in excess of the profits reaped by it (the burning of excess fossil fuels needed to commute to work, living arrangements dictated by the commute, etc.). With these things eliminated, growth will resume.

The end aimed at is a limited, contained, permanent proxy war with the People's Republic of China, which is also basically "in on it" (though in no sense do I think the entire structure of government in both countries is "in on it" in a conscious way). A perpetual proxy war is seen as the way to prop up the declining rates of profit in both capitalist nations (and, despite the Communist label attached to it, China is no less subject to commodity productionn for exchange than the United States). The closest historical analogy possible is the Bay of Pigs invasion, which was planned by mid-level CIA bureaucrats under John Foster Dulles during the last year of the Eisenhower Administration and then executed in the first year of the Kennedy Administration without either being entirely aware of what was happening. This does not correspond to Trump's "Deep State", because he knows enough to be implicated in it and would not have acted to prevent it if he was innocent of it, just as Kennedy would have signed off on Bay of Pigs had he been aware; both Kennedy's threat to smash the CIA into dust and Trump's tirades against the "Deep State" are impotent. Both had/have material interests bound up with the perpetuation of that State, which has an interest in the perpetuation of the prevailing mode of social organization and production.

Not ancient aliens. Not the Georgia Guidestones. Not, even, a plan mastermined by evildoers like Donald Trump or Xi Jingping. Rather, a natural response by the mechanisms of global capitalism, done half-consciously, to clear the way to new growth. Along the way, new combinations of worldviews like eco-fascism, 'National Bolshevism", etc. will be mobilized in support of the newly emergent capitalist order. This is a pruning.

EDIT: When I say "the end aimed at" etc., I do not mean anyone sat around and planned any of this out in a word processor. What I mean is that, unlike traditional conspiracy theories, I hold that world systems act independently of any operator or group of operators. Benasse thinks she's doing her duty she's trained for all her life, her handlers think they're crippling the ChiCom enemy, the ChiComs think they're cementing Party control and preventing China from sliding into civil war, Trump thinks he's winning election for the good of the country, etc. All the actors believe they are acting in good faith, and to a very real extent are. But the total, whole social gestalt takes place within a system of universal production for exchange, and human consciousness emerges into this framework in a deterministic fashion, and cannot but function in accordance with the needs of that system. And what that system needs at this moment is a reduction in the surplus population and a stabilizing war. Human consciousness in contingent upon social consciousness, and is a product thereof.

 

[ExitStageLeft]

We have not had capitalism in the US in many decades. I've heard a term called crony capitalism, which is not the same as free market capitalism. Basically the government controls the market to a large degree so healthcare is outrageously expensive as a result is one example. It would not be if we had a free market.

There's no difference between these two things.

To begin with, American capitalism, and capitalism in general, have always been heavily regulated, subsidized, etc. Alexander Hamilton's American System of subsidies, public works projects, etc. began this process two centuries ago. For example, Hamilton wanted to give legal protections to large grain distillers. The end result was the crushing of Shaye's Rebellion and the virtual elimination of petty alcohol production in New England.

Capitalism - which can be objectively defined, not as "free markets" but as generalized, universal commodity production for exchange - requires interventions to kickstart the process of primary accumulation. Capitalism - Money-Commodity-Money - requires some initial impetus to begin the process of accumulating money.

Money has existed for several thousand years. Wage labor has only emerged as the primary - almost the only - form of making a living in roughly the last two hundred. Prior to this, while there were wage laborers, they never formed an absolute majority of society; barter, slavery, subsistence farming, etc. vastly outweighed the process of proletarianization. And this process itself required the destruction of earlier modes of production, like those of small craftsmen.

Capitalism only becomes capitalism when wage labor and exchange for money become universal or near-universal. And money itself has always been issued by governments - contrary to what BitCoin entrepreneurs claim, there has never been a time when privately issued coin dominated centrally issued currency. Never will be, either. Even after Jackson's war on the Second Bank, the overwhelming majority of currency was issued by State governments, and this only until the 1840s.

Again, capitalism is not just when money or wage labor exists. It is when money becomes the dominant form of social exchange in society, and when wage labor becomes the universal or near-universal form of living in society. This process entails the virtual removal of the means of production from the hands of the laborers at large and the conversion of society into dependence on Capital.

 

[waived]

idk maybe coronavirus is a scam is a scam?

 

[Lefty]

I don't think the corona is a scam per se. However from what I've read and heard about it, it doesn't sound like a virus that would be found in the wild. This corona virus was obviously genetically created in a lab. I've also read that there is a bio-lab not far from Wuhan, China, which is where the virus orginates from. I don't see why America or really any country would wanna destroy its economy. That seems a little far-fetched. Having a wrecked economy would also hurt the rich/elite people, not as much, but it would still do damage to them if the economy completely collapsed.

Maybe the virus was going to be used as some sorta warfare agent, but it got out of hand? Also, there's a lot of misinformation going around, so its hard to tell. There's more I'd like to say, but my mind is wandering right now. Hopefully I can come back to this, after my mind stops wandering.

 

[ExitStageLeft]

I don't see why America or really any country would wanna destroy its economy. That seems a little far-fetched. Having a wrecked economy would also hurt the rich/elite people, not as much, but it would still do damage to them if the economy completely collapsed. ​

​

Not true, actually. Capitalism requires crises as part of its mechanism to deal with declining rates of profit. Take the aftermath of World War II, which is what pulled capitalism out of the gutter, for an example: so much had been destroyed in the process that the reconstruction effort propelled the post-war "Golden Age" until it became self-propelling for awhile.

Crises - extended crises - are good for the system in the long run, though it devours rich and poor alike. And it is the system, as a totality, which must be considered, not the motives of this or that social group, not even the richest of the bourgeois, who themselves control very little.

 

[Lefty]

Not true, actually. Capitalism requires crises as part of its mechanism to deal with declining rates of profit. Take the aftermath of World War II, which is what pulled capitalism out of the gutter, for an example: so much had been destroyed in the process that the reconstruction effort propelled the post-war "Golden Age" until it became self-propelling for awhile.

Crises - extended crises - are good for the system in the long run, though it devours rich and poor alike. And it is the system, as a totality, which must be considered, not the motives of this or that social group, not even the richest of the bourgeois, who themselves control very little.

Crony capitalism may need crises. However in a true free market economy, a crisis wouldn't be needed.

 

[ExitStageLeft]

Crony capitalism may need crises. However in a true free market economy, a crisis wouldn't be needed.

Again, this distinction is an artificial one.

A.) There has never been a "true free market economy". Even Ayn Rand understood this when she subtitled her book Capitalism as The Unknown Idea.

From the very beginning of capitalism - which again, is not synonymous with money and markets in isolation, but refers to a generalized social system displacing other modes of transportation - the State has been intimately involved in building and protecting Capital. From the days of English Enclosure, when the proto-bourgeois began parceling out communal grazing land to themselves and cutting peasants off from their sources of sustenance, through State-sponsored colonialism (e.g. the Dutch East India Company), through to the American System of protective tariffs, subsidies and rebates, up to the greenback policy of the American Civil War and the New Deal... a "true free market" has not existed. Even chattel slavery in the Americas was State-sanctioned and State-subsidized - the Fugitive Slave Laws etc.

B.) There will never be a "true free market economy" precisely because the market intrinsically requires crises to pave the way to new profits. The profit motive, in itself, leads to the conditions that create crises, not because of "greed" but because of the need for Capital to constantly reproduce itself. These crises in turn means that a central co-ordinating body is required, which means either a government or an amalgamation of businesses which effectively function as cartels. There will never not be a regulatory apparatus within capitalism.


Again, this is the distinction:

Most labor in Greece, Egypt, Rome, China, Persia, etc. was not renumerated based on an hourly wage. Where money was recompensed for work, that money was typically (though not always) paid in advance, as a salary; far more common was direct labor for goods and services, slavery, etc. Money, the market, etc. existed, but the whole of social life and labor were not oriented towards the market. This change occurred only after the fifteenth century in Europe, with the decline of the guild system, the gradual erosion of vassalage and serfdom, etc.

What, I think, is typically referred to as "true free market capitalism" really means something like artisanal small proprietorship, which... isn't really capitalism at all, having a social basis other than wage labor. There was never a time, contrary to Little House On The Prairie, where a bunch of tiny smallholders lived in self-sufficient units and produced surplus for sale as a majority of the society.

 

[Halnas]

when people refer to free market capitalism or libertarianism they usually refer to the first century of the USA as being the closest. Before the federation started to heavily substitute and regulate. Which according to your own posting happened more than a hundred years after the decleration of independence.

The term capitalism showed up when the opposing system communism spread in Europe (which do btw. not just oppose money as a concept but also basic bartering). The term changed its definition over time and it depends on who is using it. If a communist is using the term, he is using it in the meaning of "a system that has rich dudes ruling with capital over others" but then proceeds to apply that term to countries that do not fit into that description. Also note that the term Bourgeois that you and socialists use, is not "just a rich ruling class". Everybody with relevant land ownership is Bourgeois too. A farmer is part of the Bourgeois according to socialists, because he owns land where he plants and needs to be disowned (they did that, millions starved, known story).

If you want to talk about the definition of the term Capitalism, do not take it from Communists or Socialists. Just like you wouldn't take the definition of the word Socialism from a Capitalist (pro-tip: they equal socialism to communism just like socialists equal capitalism with aristocracy).

Also that has totally nothing to do with corona is a scam, so lets move that to somewhere else.

 

[HadEnough1974]

And the World Trade Center was an inside job and Hillary runs a pedophile ring through a pizzeria, sound about right?

 

[BlackPoppet]

And the World Trade Center was an inside job and Hillary runs a pedophile ring through a pizzeria, sound about right?

That was John Podesta.

 

[Final Escape]

There's no difference between these two things.

To begin with, American capitalism, and capitalism in general, have always been heavily regulated, subsidized, etc. Alexander Hamilton's American System of subsidies, public works projects, etc. began this process two centuries ago. For example, Hamilton wanted to give legal protections to large grain distillers. The end result was the crushing of Shaye's Rebellion and the virtual elimination of petty alcohol production in New England.

Capitalism - which can be objectively defined, not as "free markets" but as generalized, universal commodity production for exchange - requires interventions to kickstart the process of primary accumulation. Capitalism - Money-Commodity-Money - requires some initial impetus to begin the process of accumulating money.

Money has existed for several thousand years. Wage labor has only emerged as the primary - almost the only - form of making a living in roughly the last two hundred. Prior to this, while there were wage laborers, they never formed an absolute majority of society; barter, slavery, subsistence farming, etc. vastly outweighed the process of proletarianization. And this process itself required the destruction of earlier modes of production, like those of small craftsmen.

Capitalism only becomes capitalism when wage labor and exchange for money become universal or near-universal. And money itself has always been issued by governments - contrary to what BitCoin entrepreneurs claim, there has never been a time when privately issued coin dominated centrally issued currency. Never will be, either. Even after Jackson's war on the Second Bank, the overwhelming majority of currency was issued by State governments, and this only until the 1840s.

Again, capitalism is not just when money or wage labor exists. It is when money becomes the dominant form of social exchange in society, and when wage labor becomes the universal or near-universal form of living in society. This process entails the virtual removal of the means of production from the hands of the laborers at large and the conversion of society into dependence on Capital.

No, capitalism has not always been so heavily regulated. This is why America had such a high standard of living decades ago especially. What we have been living under is called facism or crony capitalism, the gov gives special favors to politically connected friends and family, it's why Walmart remains open while smaller businesses had to shut down. When u have few barriers to entry into jobs and starting businesses, no taxation, this is why people were able to move into the middle class much easier decades ago. Now the overlords behind government have devalued the currency so bad that it doesn't go very far, too many dollars chasing too few goods. The taxation is really out of control. Anything u tax u get less of, anything u subsidize u get more of. This is why subsidizing poverty through the welfare state increases the amount of poor people. Back in the day there was no welfare state, they had privatized forms of charity to help the people who needed it. The welfare state is forced redistribution of income, not voluntary charity. This is why people see it as an entitlement not as something they are greatful to receive. We have been living under socialism for a long time actually, it's just that it's difficult for people to see because for a little while u can pull off the living at the expense of others scheme.

 

[terry_a_davis]

In answer to thread title, no.

 

[netrezven]

Will be quite short with this: the virus is real, leaked by accident, but it's not that dangerous. 99% percent from statiscts in my country are people died from insult or other serious illneses, who got the corona in the hospital. Those people die from other illneses or because of medication missuse from doctors/most with heart problems die not from the virus but from the medicine/. And they are liyng to their relatives. I wonder why they still don't pull corona virus infection as reason for car crashes.
Keeping people at home can only give hospitals some time. What do you think will happen when we all go out again? All the people will be cured and this virus won't exists at all to spread again? It's pointless in terms of people's security.
The main affect all of this will have is going to be end of demcrasy as we call it now. No more "fake news", no more free speach or thinking on social media. And i'm not even pointing the new economical balance in the world. But in short - forget about posting what governments don't like anymore. This is going to happen. It's all about more control over the global population.

 

[ExitStageLeft]

No, capitalism has not always been so heavily regulated. This is why America had such a high standard of living decades ago especially. What we have been living under is called facism or crony capitalism, the gov gives special favors to politically connected friends and family,

This, again, has always been the case. I gave you the example of the Whiskey Rebellion, in which smallholder liquor producers unsuccessfully tried to go to war against the Federal government, which had adopted Hamilton's plan for Federal subsidy and regulation for large agricultural interests.

it's why Walmart remains open while smaller businesses had to shut down.

That's called an economy of scale. Has relatively little to do with nepotism.

When u have few barriers to entry into jobs and starting businesses, no taxation, this is why people were able to move into the middle class much easier decades ago.

Most Americans who became middle-class did so after the New Deal in the 1950s and 1960s, when taxes, regulation, etc. were proportionally higher than today.

Now the overlords behind government have devalued the currency so bad that it doesn't go very far, too many dollars chasing too few goods. The taxation is really out of control. Anything u tax u get less of, anything u subsidize u get more of. This is why subsidizing poverty through the welfare state increases the amount of poor people.

And not subsidizing them would be tantamount to murder.

Back in the day there was no welfare state, they had privatized forms of charity to help the people who needed it.

Federal welfare is older than you think, stretching back to the Harding Administration's implementation of the Sheppard-Towner Act of 1921, providing Federal funding for maternity care. State-based welfare stretches back into the late 1870s.

And this is only in America. In England, for instance, poor relief (of dubious quality) has existed since the 1500s.

This is why people see it as an entitlement not as something they are greatful to receive. We have been living under socialism for a long time actually, it's just that it's difficult for people to see because for a little while u can pull off the living at the expense of others scheme.

Socialism is the abolition of commodity production for exchange and the implementation of production for use. Welfare capitalism - welfare presupposes money, a State (and thereby class society) etc. - is just welfare capitalism.

You have a prelapsarian vision of a free market economy which never existed. Railroads built in the nineteenth century, for example, were overwhelmingly built using Federal funds on granted Federal lands.

Land Grants | History of Railroads and Maps | Articles and Essays | Railroad Maps, 1828-1900 | Digital Collections | Library of Congress

The second half of the nineteenth century was the era of railroad land grants. Between 1850 and 1872 extensive cessions of public lands were made to states and to railroad companies to promote railroad construction.[18] Usually the companies received from the federal government, in twenty- or...

www.loc.gov

The second half of the nineteenth century was the era of railroad land grants. Between 1850 and 1872 extensive cessions of public lands were made to states and to railroad companies to promote railroad construction.
[18]

Usually the companies received from the federal government, in twenty- or fifty-mile strips, alternate sections of public land for each mile of track that was built. Responsibility for surveying and mapping the grants fell to the U.S. General Land Office, now the Bureau of Land Management. Numerous maps of the United States and individual states and counties were made which clearly indicated the sections of the granted land and the railroad rights-of-way.

Were railroad industrialists of the mid-nineteenth century "socialists"? Was every businessman who ever turned a dollar with the benefit of these Federally subsidized railroads a socialist? No. Because socialism is not When The Gubmint Does It. When The Gubmint Does It, what is always aimed at is the preservation and extension of capitalist relations, even in ostensibly "socialist" societies1.

1.

While the revolution in Germany is still slow in "coming forth", our task is to study the state capitalism of the Germans, to spare no effort in copying it and not shrink from adopting dictatorial methods to hasten the copying of Western culture by barbarian Russia, without hesitating to use barbarous methods in fighting barbarism.

- Vladimir Lenin, "The Tax In Kind"https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1921/apr/21.htm

Even the earliest American colonies were private-public partnerships.

Definition of CORPORATE COLONY

a charter colony (as Connecticut or Rhode Island) having a royal charter granted to the inhabitants as a corporate body… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Definition of corporate colony

: a charter colony (as Connecticut or Rhode Island) having a royal charter granted to the inhabitants as a corporate body

Libertarians, generally, have to greatly simplify the complex history of the State in order to justify their narrative. This is why for example the war against Big Gub'Mint Socialism begins for them with the foundation of the Federal Reserve in 1913 and not the comparable establishment of the First Bank of the United States in 1791; why the gold standard is hailed as something existing from time memorial (even though the U.S. had a bimetallic system until 1821, in which silver was the more common backing of currency, and that before then various European currencies were typically fiat based), etc.

I'm not even a fan of welfare capitalism, or the State, or money. I'm infinitely further "to the Left" than Bernie Sanders etc. I simply enjoy pointing out that this shit has been inextricably bound up with capitalism since its earliest emergence. Because libertarians are annoying falsifiers of history.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

This is really interesting. I'm not sure how I feel about some of it but it's worth watching to the end.

 

[Halnas]

If you check out foreign press, it looks like every country thinks that they are doing the best and they try to spread the story that others are much worse.

If you check out the Swedish media, they say that they are doing the best and are the only ones with a good strategy.
You check out the Austrian media, they tell you that Sweden is doing horrible and that Austria is doing awesome.
If you check out the German media, they all report how bad the USA, China and the UK do. You check out the statistics and Germany has the same number per million people as the USA and the UK has way less. And China is far away underneath.
You check out the media in the UK, they say that they are doing awesome and others doing bad.
The US media paused their 4-year sperg out about Trump to report how bad China is.

You get drilled to heil your leaders. Nobody questions it, if you don't want new George Orwell style laws, you are wanting people to die.
It might not be a scam, but they really love to milk it and use it as much as possible.
The funny thing is that in all countries the infection rates are going down, doesn't matter if they did lots of measures or not, because with spring and the end of the flue season, CoVid has a hard time to spread as well.

At the current stage, CoVid is in my opinion at the worst possible level.
It is major enough to cause damage over decades for people and economy, but it is not major enough for a total quick crash of the system.
Sometimes it is better to rebuild from scratch than to try to put patches again and again on a broken system.

 

[a.h]

I still have not met anyone with it or even heard of friends or friends of friends. Ok one friend told me the doctor said her already dying elderly grandmother has it and they should just assume they have it too if they live together lol! The grandma is like really old and before the corona scam, she was already in her last days. They keep showing videos of hospitals on Twitter with the staff dancing around and there appears to be no patients. If corona was a serious as they say the staff should be busy and there should be tons of dying people all over the place in the hospital. The staff should look pretty exhausted and stressed. That doesn't appear to be the case though. I'm sure corona exists but it's just much more mild that what they claim and most people are dying of suicides, and other issues related to the lockdown of the economy. I heard they are counting deaths unrelated to corona as deaths from corona. Pretty evil shit.

It's real for sure. But it seems it's just bad for the elderly or to very sick people. In my country very little amount of old and sick has died to it just like to other flus.
I personally think that just risk groups should be isolated, most businesses should be allowed to be open and others should be careful of it. Many cities have under 20 cases. Few big cities have almost all Corona cases and almost all immigrants.

I just read from newspaper 2 days ago my countries policy about Corona testing and care. It said that people should only go to hospital (where all health care is) if they have so serious acute corona symptoms that they need hospital care (40 celcius fever or trouble breathing usually need hospital care) or if they have strong Corona symptoms and have traveled to other country during the outbrake or has been in contact with person with confirmed Corona virus.

Before that people (adults) were told to go to doctor if they had flu for one week or if they felt really sick since there are antibiotics to most flus that came from bacterias and viral meds to some virus infections. But if person has clear Corona symptoms then better not go to doctor unless you are so sick you need hospital care. It makes sense since there is no treatment for Corona so why bother (if symptoms are clearly Corona symptoms) but the stats of my country are so not real. Every mild or average Corona infection goes unnoticed without any testing or visits to doctor except in case of children, risk groups or people who work in health care or care for risk groups. So of course it seems more deadly than other flus if only critical cases gets counted. Some countries representatives have criticized my countries ways in public media. But my country use money to other things than testing and pointless doctor's visit.

It's treated as stomach flu when people are adviced to not go to doctor to spread it and try manage it at home unless they really need IV. Also nurses and doctors can then write notice to employees for paid sick leave without seeing the patient and after just chatting by phone.

 

[ManWithNoName]

I don't think its a scam I think its a real problem but I do think that The U.S.A is going to use this ordeal to slowly strip our rights away and condition us to be subconsciously okay with it.

You nailed it, sir!

The COVID-19 (aka Corona Virus) crisis is real, but the severity is being overly played out by our politicians, and one might argue the governments are doing so to see just what they can get away with in terms our basic rights and freedoms.

The danger factor is put more in rational sense by this article: https://thehill.com/opinion/healthc...in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation

And do not get me going on the mainstream media - assholes who will do anything to keep a viewing audience. Look how CNN presented the stats:

This is really interesting. I'm not sure how I feel about some of it but it's worth watching to the end.

I caught your post but too late before YT police removed it. Apparently it violated yt terms of service i.e. presentating something that deviates from the Oligarch approved narrative.