Discussion Antinatilism and parents

[elfgyoza]

I've seen antinatilism brought up here a few times, but has anyone ever raised it with their parents? Especially by asking why they had you?

I'm currently trying my best to avoid facetimes from my parents. I don't want them to see me visibly distressed (due to me desperately wanting to CTB soon), but I'm also feeling quite resentful towards them and I'm not great at holding back anger. I do love them, I just can't shake my hatred for them bringing me into this shitty world in the first place. I can't avoid them forever, but I don't know what to do about the anger inside of me

 

[BitterlyAlive_]

Ooh, good question. I don't really talk about antinatalism with anyone; my mental issues and shitty outlook are the reason why I personally agree with it. I definitely wouldn't talk about it with my parents lol.

I think my parents had me to fill some void. Maybe to prove to themselves that they're not their parents, maybe to try and make a (debatable) positive lasting impact on the world. I'm not too pleased that I'm here, I'm not pleased with my parents because I know their issues affected how they raised me - which affected my mental health. But...meh. It is what it is, I suppose. I used to be angry about it as well, but it's not productive. I let it go because it's just something that can't be helped, and holding onto that anger was just hurting me.

** I don't really judge people for having kids unless they're already ratchet lol. I just wouldn't want to bring life into this world, personally.

 

[KleinerWolf]

I've seen antinatilism brought up here a few times, but has anyone ever raised it with their parents? Especially by asking why they had you?

I'm currently trying my best to avoid facetimes from my parents. I don't want them to see me visibly distressed (due to me desperately wanting to CTB soon), but I'm also feeling quite resentful towards them and I'm not great at holding back anger. I do love them, I just can't shake my hatred for them bringing me into this shitty world in the first place. I can't avoid them forever, but I don't know what to do about the anger inside of me

I think the problem is that for most parents they expect things to be fine and didn’t think of the shortcomings.

Even worse, some parents are not good parents in the first place, (those who are in a unfavourable situation or have issues themselves) but decide to have kids without realising their own situation from a objective perspective.

 

[demuic]

I haven't tried to bring it up with my mom, because I know she wouldn't understand. I've already asked her why she decided to have kids and the answer was something like she always wanted them. There is already a world of difference in the way of thinking between me and anyone who decides to have kids, that imo can't be bridged.

One reason I have for resentment toward my parents is that they could have given me a good life, but didn't, due to their own unacknowledged mental health situations, and reasons I can't understand.

Most people don't understand and vilify anti-natalism, and even just being childfree, thinking that people "hate" children or whatever. It's really dumb.

 

[KleinerWolf]

I haven't tried to bring it up with my mom, because I know she wouldn't understand. I've already asked her why she decided to have kids and the answer was something like she always wanted them. There is already a world of difference in the way of thinking between me and anyone who decides to have kids, that imo can't be bridged.

One reason I have for resentment toward my parents is that they could have given me a good life, but didn't, due to their own unacknowledged mental health situations, and reasons I can't understand.

Most people don't understand and vilify anti-natalism, and even just being childfree, thinking that people "hate" children or whatever. It's really dumb.

I certainly relate where you coming from,

I find it quite bizarre that had our lives been great, we wouldn’t have been where we are today and we would probably never think of antinatalism since we wouldn’t have anything to resent it with.

what a shame..

 

[Life sucks]

The problem is how people think antinatalism is about hating parents. Instead of looking at the reality and facts, it turns into an egotistical battle with personal attacks. Antinatalism isn't about attacking person X because they are parents. Parents on the other hand think its a personal attack and never accept the reality. Antinatalism is about exposing how life and reproduction and natalism are wrong, its not about hatred for a group or something like that. Also if a parent later thinks life and reproduction are wrong, they are way better than those without children but thinking reproduction is ok and spreading the reproduction propaganda.

 

[Puffinz]

I recently asked my dad why he and my mom decided to have me. He said he was pretty skeptical about it at first but that my mom really really wanted kids so he felt like he should go along with her. I haven't asked my mom yet and I'm not sure I ever will. It was just such a mundane, disappointing answer. Its like they didn't even think about it. My life was not started for any reason. I'm just here because two people decided they wanted to have a kid. It's like deciding they want a new tv so they go and buy one. A person's life is treated like an object. I think most parents will answer the question with "I wanted" or "we wanted". I have never heard anyone say they created a child for the child's sake.
Sorry for the double post but I also wanted to address anger at your own parents over having had you. When I first discovered the idea of antinatalism I was angry at my parents too. I didn't speak to them for over two months. My anger disappeared with a change of perspective though. I realized that before I discovered antinatalism I never thought twice about people having kids. In fact I even thought that if I was able to fix my problems and meet a nice woman I would have kids someday. Having children is THE most important aspect of life from an evolutionary perspective. A lot of animals biologically shut down and die as soon as they've produced offspring. Species that don't produce offspring die out. Everyone seems to forget that humans are still animals. We still have these powerful biological urges to reproduce that have evolved over billions of years. It's not easy to overcome that. I started to view people more like animals in that we still have strong biological urges and it often blocks off people's minds from reason. Once I saw this my anger towards my parents subsided. They didn't think about 100% of the implications of having a child because having a child is just what you're supposed to do as an animal. Once people have kids, most parents love them and care for them as best they can. Most parents would sacrifice their own lives just so their children can be happy. Most parents do not want to hurt their children. If your parents wronged you in any way after you're born then I would say you should be angry with them. Don't know if this change of perspective will work for you but after this change in perspective I don't feel angry, I just feel like I have no obligation to continue living for their sake anymore.

 

[foxdie]

I have no interest in re-engaging in this debate but it reminded me of a similar thread with a rather amusing title...

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/how-can-you-get-a-child.48143/

 

[elfgyoza]

The problem is how people think antinatalism is about hating parents. Instead of looking at the reality and facts, it turns into an egotistical battle with personal attacks. Antinatalism isn't about attacking person X because they are parents. Parents on the other hand think its a personal attack and never accept the reality. Antinatalism is about exposing how life and reproduction and natalism are wrong, its not about hatred for a group or something like that. Also if a parent later thinks life and reproduction are wrong, they are way better than those without children but thinking reproduction is ok and spreading the reproduction propaganda.

Yes, absolutely. I didn't mean for my post to come across as antinatilism = hate parents btw!
I've never wanted a child of my own, nor could I ever understand why people would want one. So I kinda think I'd have agreed with it even if I didn't have a shitty life, although it's probably fair to assume most antinatilists have seen the bad stuff.
I hope it becomes a little more mainstream, people don't have to agree with it, so long as more people understand that their child will become a whole new human that can be exposed to all the cruel parts of this world. It could make some think twice

 

[Life sucks]

Yes, absolutely. I didn't mean for my post to come across as antinatilism = hate parents btw!
I've never wanted a child of my own, nor could I ever understand why people would want one. So I kinda think I'd have agreed with it even if I didn't have a shitty life, although it's probably fair to assume most antinatilists have seen the bad stuff.
I hope it becomes a little more mainstream, people don't have to agree with it, so long as more people understand that their child will become a whole new human that can be exposed to all the cruel parts of this world. It could make some think twice

I understand. I noticed that some want to silence the voice of antinatalism even in this website. Which is why I always try to explain its not personal. This species is so shitty that it wants to continue reproduction as if the suffering of those who want to ctb means nothing.

 

[k75]

I don't like debating this issue, and I think everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. But I do wish more people understood it's not always black and white. Nobody just thinks, "Hey, I'm going to maliciously force a person to be alive today!" And sometimes pregnancy happens despite all precautions or intentions. It's not like you can just wish or decide a fetus out of existence, but abortions are often expensive or not an option. Shit's complicated.

 

[Captive of Mind]

I've seen antinatilism brought up here a few times, but has anyone ever raised it with their parents? Especially by asking why they had you?

I'm currently trying my best to avoid facetimes from my parents. I don't want them to see me visibly distressed (due to me desperately wanting to CTB soon), but I'm also feeling quite resentful towards them and I'm not great at holding back anger. I do love them, I just can't shake my hatred for them bringing me into this shitty world in the first place. I can't avoid them forever, but I don't know what to do about the anger inside of me

I haven't brought up antinatalism to them, but it's totally understandable why you have resentment towards them about this. It seems obvious that they would be partially to blame for your suffering since they brought you here. And a lot of the reasons for having children are completely selfish.

It's a moral dilemma to bring someone into the world without their consent. To me, it depends on how high the risk is of the child having suffering that outweighs the well being. I can't blame my parents though because they are as clueless as everyone else who's stumbling through life trying to figure how this whole thing works.

I have no interest in re-engaging in this debate but it reminded me of a similar thread with a rather amusing title...

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/how-can-you-get-a-child.48143/

Rofl! That thread had such a misleading title.. and it attracted a ton of discussion!

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

I can't ask my parents since one of them is dead and the other ran for the hills, but I was told by one of my grandparents that my birth was a mistake/unplanned (abortion is taboo and illegal where I was born) and that I only ended up being born because my mother thought a baby would fix her problems. She ended up just passing them on. I really despise my parents because they knew their offspring would have a life of suffering and didn't care, their own potential hedonism was more important to them it seems. My mother has the same illness I do (chronic fatigue) and continued to pop out children she could not care for, abandoning them and placing the burden on others. It's hard for me not to be an anti-natalist when I know that most people breed without thinking and seem to believe suffering is basal to the human condition and just an obstacle one must overcome to reach "the good parts" of life. I've wanted to CTB since I was a child, so perhaps they should consider the fact that some people never get to experience this mythical state of happiness!

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

I have no interest in re-engaging in this debate but it reminded me of a similar thread with a rather amusing title...

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/how-can-you-get-a-child.48143/

I love that thread and I miss the OP.

 

[Raminiki]

Yes, with my mother. She said that genetic mental health conditions weren't really understood back then, she didn't know. Yet her sister suicided and her mother was apparently unsound, and her grandmother died in a mental hospital with manic depression. She had plenty of evidence and was still careless. And I'm paying for it and she's ridiculing me for being ill, as if it was my choice and she has zero accountability. My father is also blamed as I inherited autism from him, and he was and remains unaware that he's autistic.

There were a lot of environmental factors that contributed to my illness too. I was raised in deprived, impoverished and abusive conditions. Having children into such conditions is inexcusable. Some of my siblings came out resilient and less genetically handicapped, but not me.

 

[Nymph]

I asked my mom why she had me and she says it’s because she really wanted a child and that she was ready to have one and was really happy when I was born blah blah blah...I didn’t straight up tell her about antinatalism but I did ask stuff and talk about not wanting to be born and stuff
I asked her why she had a child with someone who she knew clearly had a lot of mental issues and that it also runs in their family and she didn’t say much. She just said that even tho he has the mental issues he is still very capable of doing stuff etc which is good for HIM but I’m not like that, my mind is fucked up and I don’t have motivation to suffer this life.
Basically they were selfish and wanted a fucking baby so let’s just poop one out even tho there’s already so many children that don’t have homes. Also everytime I talk about birth she starts talking about how long and painful it was for me to be born but thats not my fault, she didn’t have to have a baby-it was a decision. And she’s kind of manipulating me by-“I suffered so much giving birth to you and now you just want to ctb” kind of thing. YEAH, BECAUSE I DIDNT ASK TO BE BORN

 

[Nexuno]

I talked about this many times with my mother (she died this year). She was sincerely heartbroken about this issue because, basically, she was "anti-life" like me. Me and my sister get born simply because, you know, sometimes life seems ok and you forget what this hell is all about, so a person could decide to do something "good", think positive, have a family, some babies... That's it. But my mother "knew" and firmly believed that life is totally useless, a waste of time, that we are destined to suffering and death. She said to me that she asked the same question several times to his mother as well, and every time we talked about this she was sincerely sorry for putting the weight of existence/suffering/death on my shoulders.

We are just human beings; our parents are just scared children who expect to be forgiven, like everyone else. Be gentle with them.

 

[Ghost2211]

This has remained weirdly civil. I don’t think its a taboo topic, or one that should be avoided at all. It generally is a fact that discontinuing reproduction would eliminate human suffering, but some people are very happy to exist. Reproduction should be each person‘s choice, and ideally nobody should be shamed or attacked for either viewpoint. I respect those that choose to end the cycle of suffering, and I respect those that want to share the better aspects of life with offspring.

 

[MyStateKilledMe]

I'm childfree, which is almost the same as antinatalist. But the answer is dead-simple: it's what you do. Occam's Razor. Society dictates that the social norms is to have kids. And most people are glorified sheep. So if "Society" tells them to do a horizontal dance without a condom, and pop out a kid 9 months later, they obey. Society says "jump!", they say "how high?". Not unlike how liberal states are doing masks and social distancing. Then when the kids are born, the parents find a way to make it work after the fact, rather than really thinking about whether or not the want a kid.

 

[Latios]

I'm childfree, which is almost the same as antinatalist. But the answer is dead-simple: it's what you do. Occam's Razor. Society dictates that the social norms is to have kids. And most people are glorified sheep. So if "Society" tells them to do a horizontal dance without a condom, and pop out a kid 9 months later, they obey. Society says "jump!", they say "how high?". Not unlike how liberal states are doing masks and social distancing. Then when the kids are born, the parents find a way to make it work after the fact, rather than really thinking about whether or not the want a kid.

I feel like this (having babies) can also be a case of Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice what can be explained b stupidity.

 

[Worthless_nobody]

....Please let's continue to keep this thread civil and no one put down comments and call all parents evil. I saw that in one of the last antinatalist threads....

I had a breakdown one day and I asked my mom. She said I wasn't really planned but she never knew things would ever get as bad as they did for me. She also said she chose not to have any more children because of how my dad didn't pay me attention and was cold, emotionally distant and verbally mean.
I feel like I ruined my mom's life...she was stuck with my dad and a worthless daughter like me...
My mom is the only person in the world who has fought for me, tried so hard to help me and been there. I love her and she is the ONLY reason I'm still alive.

I don't want children because I know I would be a terrible parent and there is unknown suffering the person might endure but I don't hate parents. There are lots of great parents. Some are terrible and should have never had kids. But not all parents are bad they just viewed the world differently (like my mom) than a suicidal person so having kids didn't seem bad to them.

 

[profoundexperience]

I think most parents will answer the question with "I wanted" or "we wanted". I have never heard anyone say they created a child for the child's sake.

No "benefits" can apply to a nonexistent being.

Therefore all the benefits to conceiving a child (from mere sex to fulfillment of an actual plan) can only apply to the parents... and this always tracks back to "I want". Sure, once in existence, the child can be bestowed benefits.

But, it's a logical impossibility to "create a child for the child's sake": it just can't happen.

 

[MyStateKilledMe]

I don't want children because I know I would be a terrible parent and there is unknown suffering the person might endure but I don't hate parents. There are lots of great parents. Some are terrible and should have never had kids. But not all parents are bad they just viewed the world differently (like my mom) than a suicidal person so having kids didn't seem bad to them.

I don't want kids because of the hellhole this world turned into: violence, cruelty, Democrat-sponsored looting, media lies, unstable families, crappy jobs, and the Covid scamdemic created to ramp up government control. I have it bad enough, but I can smoke cigarettes, drink liquor, take Effexor, and engage in harmful activities that take my mind off the misery. A kid doesn't have any of these things, just their own mind, cartoons on TV, and useless crap like "deep breathing".

I had thoughts of suicide since I was 6 or 7. Maybe I was too smart for my own good as a kid, and could see the world for the hellhole it really is, rather than a happy place my family and the media made it out to be. What if my kid is smart too? If I had to have a kid, and had no choice, I'd want him/her to be as dumb and average as possible, because intelligence = misery.

 

[Worthless_nobody]

intelligence = misery.

Knowledge and wisdom is the killer of happiness

 

[WornOutLife]

Lately, I remind my parents that my parents are their fault because none of this would be happining if they had use condoms that night.

Still, gotta admit that most of my problems are my fault (apart from my suicidal genes).

 

[Manford]

I don't have children and don't plan on having any but you shouldn't be mad at your parents for conceiving you. Most organisms have an instinctive drive to procreate. Humans also have a cultural influence pushing them.

 

[x~Sophia~x]

I just can't shake my hatred for them bringing me into this shitty world in the first place. I can't avoid them forever, but I don't know what to do about the anger inside of me

Why are you angry with your parents? Did you have a shitty upbringing Did your parents abuse you or allow others to abuse you?
I'm sorry for all the questions, but why do you hate your parents Are they the reason why you feel your only option is to CTB

 

[Frauw]

Have openly conveyed to my parents that I despise them for making me exist, especially after my mother saw how fucked up things can go wrong with the human body after having my severely mentally/physically disabled brother.

 

[Lupgevif]

I don't think I've ever asked them why they had me, but the told me plenty of times they had me willingly. In fact, is was born from in vitro fertilisation, which means I was plenty planned. Knowing this, I can't help but just feel resentful, specially since they have been both mentally ill before I was even born.

I don't have children and don't plan on having any but you shouldn't be mad at your parents for conceiving you. Most organisms have an instinctive drive to procreate. Humans also have a cultural influence pushing them.

Humans also have the capacity to think rationally over their instincts. We are not animals that mount on top of each other at any place, any time to copulate whenever there are pheromones in the air.

 

[signifying nothing]

Humans also have the capacity to think rationally over their instincts. We are not animals that mount on top of each other at any place, any time to copulate whenever there are pheromones in the air.

They may have the capacity, but it doesn't mean they necessarily use it. And if you add alcohol to the mix... we might as well be classed with all other animals, or worse tbh.