Discussion Antinatilism and parents

[Lupgevif]

They may have the capacity, but it doesn't mean they necessarily use it. And if you add alcohol to the mix... we might as well be classed with all other animals, or worse tbh.

Drinking alcohol is also a choice.

 

[PrettyMoose]

Yeah I've brought it up before to my mom and it is never a very satisfying discussion. I don't think she wants to believe that I really feel this way. I'm her only child and she has always wanted grandchildren. She doesn't like that I keep confirming to her that she will never be a grandmother. She seems to think that I am only temporarily depressed and that I will change eventually or something. I'll sometimes be told the usual stuff like life is beautiful and all of that. I take pro-choice positions on abortion and suicide, and mom is a pro-birth person who may somewhat agree with assisted dying but only in the case of terminal illness. So we are very different on many issues which I recognize but I get the feeling that she does not recognize our differences or at least she tries to lie to herself about it. I think she wishes that I wasn't like this. But well, here I am anyway.

 

[signifying nothing]

Drinking alcohol is also a choice.

Perhaps, but it surely doesn't follow that you choose to drink or not based primarily on the fear that you might procreate from it.

 

[Lupgevif]

Perhaps, but it surely doesn't follow that you choose to drink or not based primarily on the fear that you might procreate from it.

It follows that you choose to drink or not based on how much you can intoxicate yourself before you lose your decision making capacities. The effects of alcohol are well know by those who consume it, it is no excuse to act like an animal, since the decision of taking it was rational in the first place.

 

[life-eternal]

Yes, me. I raised it up with my parents and got into a very big argument. I told them it was their fault i'm here and it is my right to end my life. Their response was simply "Well we didn't ask to be here either". Completely ridiculous statement. The difference is THEY decided to have kids, not me. My conscience is clean, i've seen what this life has to offer, and i won't be bringing anyone into this fucking world. They did it because they were bored or something, i have no idea.

To a MUCH lesser degree, their response was the response of a person who was raped and THEN became a rapist would give "Well i didn't ask to be raped either, but that's life". Fuck off! I resent my parents for it a lot, even though i still love them because they always tried their best with me, and sometimes i wish they didn't because it would make CTB much easier.

I am not sure what the response to the question is, as i have the same dilemma. I fucking hate them for it, yet to CTB makes me think how much it will hurt them and it makes it so hard.

I come from a close-knit family, and they are all very happy with life and think it is a miracle. In my mind when I hear them say that i think of famous cases of kids being raped, or kidnapped, or people who have suffered really fucking evil things in life (like the girl that was kidnapped for like 20 and kept in a basement). Go tell them life is beautiful. Statements like those need to hold in absolute situations, and it doesn't hold. Life isn't beautiful, it is a fucking disaster.

So even if i don't know what to do, i still feel a lot of hatred for my parents for doing this to me. Maybe you feel similar to me?

 

[MrBlue]

In my case, it's very obvious why my parents chose to have kids. My mum adores children, and spent most of her life looking after kids with terminal illnesses and complex disorders. She's still the person anyone will give a baby/toddler to instantly stop it crying. I think having her own kids was a no brainer for her.
I think my dad was just happy that my mum was happy tbh, though as a very introverted, private guy I think he sometimes likes having other people besides his wife to interact with.

Even if I don't end up ctb, I won't ever be at a point where I have to contemplate having kids so I don't really think about whether I would if I could.

 

[signifying nothing]

It follows that you choose to drink or not based on how much you can intoxicate yourself before you lose your decision making capacities. The effects of alcohol are well know by those who consume it, it is no excuse to act like an animal, since the decision of taking it was rational in the first place.

That might be how it works in your mind, but you cannot expect it to be the case for others who might not be (and/or might not want to be) that rationally driven in their actions.

 

[Lupgevif]

That might be how it works in your mind, but you cannot expect it to be the case for others who might not be (and/or might not want to be) that rationally driven in their actions.

Judging by being of the same species, one that requires collaboration from all of its members in order to function properly in its community, I do can expect them to act as rationally as I do. Since my actions may lead to problems for others, and I act in order to avoid that, others should do the same.

 

[Green Destiny]

I've actually adopted the Antinatilist mindset since I discovered it a while ago. Honestly I want to ask my dad how high or drunk he was when he met my mom and how he thought having children with this woman was such a good idea. Not only that but they had 2 kids before I was born, I wasn't even planned but when they found out that my mom was pregnant they went ahead and had me just for the fuck of it. My mom is loving and caring but she's the most toxic person in my life bar none and my dad is also loving and caring but he's in his own world especially since him and my mom are divorced. One things for certain is that I'm never having kids if I live past 30.

 

[signifying nothing]

I do can expect them to act as rationally as I do. Since my actions may lead to problems for others, and I act in order to avoid that, others should do the same.

But to expect that is itself irrational.

 

[hʚll]

i try my best to understand that they just didn't know better when they had me.
i tried many times to explain antinatalism to them. but no matter how many times i bring it up, they think i'm mentally ill or ungrateful.
it makes me so sad that after knowing that i'm suffering everyday because they chose to bring me here, they still would rather see me suffer the worst pains, then to have me free and in peace.
if i fail my suicide and end up not being able to kill myself another time, they would just look at the miserable me, waiting for their god to take me, no matter how much pain i'm in. it's so evil, it makes me hate them.

 

[loopylou]

I asked my mum why. I didn't get much of an answer.
I'm the product of a affair. My mum was sleeping with a married man. She was an alcoholic. My auntie told my mum that's it's probably not a good idea to carry on with the pregnancy but she did anyway.
she then gave up drinking when I hit 32.
she died at 66. From alcoholism. I have BpD , depression, anxiety and social agoraphobia.
she shouldn't of brought me into this world .

 

[Jbones]

I'm guilty. I have a had child. Have passed on some shitty genes. Shouldn't have done it. Love her. Hate what I am and what I've passed on. Feel so gulity.

 

[FuneralCry]

I know my parents thought they were doing a good thing by having a child. I do wish I was never born, as I was born into a world with unlimited potential for suffering. It sounds ideal to never have to exist. I think personally I have more a problem with the lack of a right to die, as having that could make up for being forced into this world with no choice, in a way.

 

[nopointreally]

"A coin is examined, and only after careful deliberation, given to a beggar, whereas a child is flung out into the cosmic brutality without hesitation." - Peter Wessel Zapffe

 

[Pluto]

Not-so-fun fact: Osama Bin Laden reportedly had as many as 26 children.
David Koresh had as many as 16, though he did later kill most (all?) of them.
In regions where women are denied a quality education, such as sub-Saharan Africa, the average woman has nearly 5 children.
It is common for drug-addicts to have several children to perpetuate their dysfunction.

At the opposite end of the spectrum, many educated, thoughtful, caring people have zero children. And maybe this has something to do with the low quality of human behaviour in this world, including their attitudes towards themselves, each other, animals and the ecosystem. Note: this is not an argument against antinatalism. But I don't think a day ever passes when the tragedy of the situation fails to disgust me.