Ok that I found to be rather strange to include as part of the article. Society just does not want to get down to the issues that cause people to think about ctb for years until it's too late but then will turn around and blame it all the forums like this.
ringo99
Arcanist
- Apr 18, 2023
- 404
"No age or other restrictions are in place to prevent access to children, vulnerable teenagers and vulnerable adults."
Is this their first day accessing the internet? The site isn't even indexed by major search engines so you can't find it unless you get the direct link from another source. There's no better way to hide a website from the general public unless they move it to the dark web. Hardcore BDSM sites can be stumbled upon by kids way more easily than SaSu yet somehow this is the devil's playground itself.
"No prominent signposting is in place to organisations from whom help is available to prevent suicide."
How do these idiots even call themselves journalists? Their research skills are so shitty that they missed an entire Recovery forum one the front page dedicated to helping those who don't want to ctb anymore?
The article is a disgusting piece of yellow journalism full of pathetic emotional manipulation like putting up a childhood photo as if to say SaSu murdered a kid. I'm surprised they didn't show her playing with a labrador or helping out at a soup kitchen for maximum pandering.
Is this their first day accessing the internet? The site isn't even indexed by major search engines so you can't find it unless you get the direct link from another source. There's no better way to hide a website from the general public unless they move it to the dark web. Hardcore BDSM sites can be stumbled upon by kids way more easily than SaSu yet somehow this is the devil's playground itself.
"No prominent signposting is in place to organisations from whom help is available to prevent suicide."
How do these idiots even call themselves journalists? Their research skills are so shitty that they missed an entire Recovery forum one the front page dedicated to helping those who don't want to ctb anymore?
The article is a disgusting piece of yellow journalism full of pathetic emotional manipulation like putting up a childhood photo as if to say SaSu murdered a kid. I'm surprised they didn't show her playing with a labrador or helping out at a soup kitchen for maximum pandering.
iusedtobehappy
Experienced
- Dec 2, 2023
- 211
Exactly. The childhood pics were over the top. Totally manipulative. No site killed that poor woman. Something else did long before she ever found the site.
BlazingBob
I'm still here b/c of my dogs
- Oct 28, 2021
- 600
Very well put. I've come to the same conclusion about the effort simply isn't worth it, especially now just to survive. When I was in my 20s back in the 90s it was definitely not this difficult. I have an incurable neurological disease that only gets worse with age. It's torturing me now. I can't imagine what it would be like in 10 or 20 years. I already can't work because of it. Am I supposed to just rot in the gutter? I think my decision is completely rational yet if I get caught trying I'll be put in a cage and reeducated and shown the error of my ways. God forbid you not love life and want to be a good little tax paying wage slave consumer. That's all it all boils down to really.
new2blue
Student
- Dec 11, 2023
- 115
I think the pressumption that those with mental illnesses can not make informed decisions about their life is incredibly shallow minded. I have been on multiple drugs, been in therapy since a little boy, have given life my best shot, and so what else am I to do? I can't even open up to anyone outside this site as I will be carted off to a prison which will make me even more miserable. This site is a tool, how people use it is their choice. My illness is not killing me, it's the suffering it causes. Just as MAID allows those facing unbearable physical suffering to die, we should also allow those with unbearable mental and emotional suffering to die also.
Dot
Info abt typng styl on prfle.
- Sep 26, 2021
- 2,833
Commnts on tht artcle r filtrd- a sasu membr attmptd t/ leav a commnt whch ws subsquntly rejctd/deletd
asian.neet
Specialist
- Oct 13, 2023
- 307
Whelp this is fun.
Woman took her own life with poison she bought online, inquest hears
Chloe Macdermott, 43, took her own life using an unnamed 'product' ordered from the United States in 2021 after she joined an online forum that 'encouraged' suicide.www.dailymail.co.uk
Fun = getting negative attention from the press and the UK trying to hammer this site out of existence
Best wishes for the girl who died, hope you found peace finally
Most likely on purpose to be honest.
I think because it's seen as relatively, a more peaceful method. It's arguable isn't it really? If those people didn't research SN- not just here- anywhere... If they didn't have access to it- would they have gone through with say- hanging or jumping or train? Potentially- anyone of us here could try those methods today if we wanted to- but- lots of people are put off by those methods. It's kind of debatable whether the more peaceful methods enable suicide. Plus- most of the time, it's youngsters the media covers the most because I imagine- parents are scared of their children ordering lethal substances off the internet.
Plus, most people I imagine know about hanging and jumping and train before they go looking for other alternatives.
Yeah I suppose because it's seen a viable alternative to the more extreme methods that it's got this much attention from the media. Also, SN isn't the first method to come to mind for most people, its still such a unexpected method for people to come across, after the likes of the more common hanging or jumping.
LaVieEnRose
Angelic
- Jul 23, 2022
- 4,174
A better word would be to "facilitate". We can't deny that this site does make it easier to kill yourself. Denying that isn't in our interest. I can see why that is unpalatable to the average person. But they paint an extreme situation beyond that of a cult where we pressure and cheer each other on and such. Well, extremes are never desirable but is their extreme alternative better? Whereby suicide is completely inaccessible and people who truly and with good reason want to die are barred and left to interminably suffer? How can that be considered desirable?
I feel mortified for the woman in the article, to have her agency minimized and her suicide reduced go some political posturing. They put out a list of "recommendations for death prevention" but I guarantee that the things that might have actually made a difference were not taken into consideration.
They blast the open accessibility of this forum but the public nature of inquests and other proceedings makes them a treasure trove for information and information.
According to Google, in 2019 in the UK, tobacco caused an estimated 125,000 deaths.
In 2021, deaths attributed to excessive weight and obesity totalled around 31,000.
In 2021, there were 7,556 alcohol-specific deaths.
What do the coroner's have to say about that lot?!! When is the government going to start banning alcohol, tobacco, fast food? Oh yeah- it won't because it gets tax from them. Oh- and it's a reasonable life choice to kill yourself slowly and die in your 40's but- choose to do it with one product and that has to be stopped. I'm not saying nembutal should start appearing in vending machines, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy.
I wish they'd at least be honest about it. They don't care about people dying young. If they did- they wouldn't allow all of the above! What is mentally sound about someone chain smoking, binge eating or drinking heavily? What makes them think those are 'rational' choices when we know all that stuff is killing us?
In 2021, deaths attributed to excessive weight and obesity totalled around 31,000.
In 2021, there were 7,556 alcohol-specific deaths.
What do the coroner's have to say about that lot?!! When is the government going to start banning alcohol, tobacco, fast food? Oh yeah- it won't because it gets tax from them. Oh- and it's a reasonable life choice to kill yourself slowly and die in your 40's but- choose to do it with one product and that has to be stopped. I'm not saying nembutal should start appearing in vending machines, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy.
I wish they'd at least be honest about it. They don't care about people dying young. If they did- they wouldn't allow all of the above! What is mentally sound about someone chain smoking, binge eating or drinking heavily? What makes them think those are 'rational' choices when we know all that stuff is killing us?
Well, I guess as long as the tobacco and alcohol companies get their money, no one cares or bats an eyelid. It's also crazy how those numbers you've put up are way, way, way more than SN-related ctb.
Dot
Info abt typng styl on prfle.
- Sep 26, 2021
- 2,833
BrainShower
Tiny storm
- Nov 7, 2023
- 251
Yeah, if they could make SN cost $100,000 and force you to make payments on it for 30 years before you could get it, it would probably be legal and encouraged.
They don't want you getting off too easy, that's all.
It isn't prohibited though. I guess my argument is- they tend to go on and on about 'vulnerable' children and adults when it comes to suicide. Yet- an alcoholic can freely but alcohol so long as they don't appear intoxicated. Someone with lung disease can buy cigarettes. Someone morbidly obese can order 10 portions of french fries. Why are these people considered to be of sound mind anymore than we are? They are quite often us in fact! Plenty of people on here will be struggling with addiction. All of those things are crutches- coping mechanisms to an extent- not always but sometimes and- especially in excess. Still- we get the choice on whether we want to risk killing ourselves with them.
I just find it interesting I suppose. The balance between giving people the freedom to choose and- making choices for them- or- forcing them towards a choice at least. A lot of our confectionary has shrunk to reduce the sugar, fat and salt we get per portion. Of course, it just means the more greedy of us eat two!
Also- what is the UK phasing tobacco out with? Vaping? I watched a documentary about vaping in America. Basically arguing that children are now getting hooked on nicotine because of it and- the UK tends to follow the US in trends. Plus, I'm not convinced that vaping will turn out to be harmless in the long run anyway. I doubt they put it through rigorous testing before releasing it on the public.
Lol- I thought that too! Put some extortionate tax on nembutal. I wonder if they'd consider it then...
Dot
Info abt typng styl on prfle.
- Sep 26, 2021
- 2,833
Thy r wantng t/ mke smokng illegl ovr lng-trm
Smoking age should rise from 18, by one year every year - Rishi Sunak
Measure aims to ensure children of today would not be able to buy cigarettes in future.
www.bbc.co.uk
Am nt dismssng th/ rst of ur argmnt & commnt etc - jst clarfynf on tht specfc itm
RichardFirst
Specialist
- Jan 16, 2021
- 383
Are you a lawyer? :D
Jokes aside, I have never heard anyone here tell someone "You should absolutely kill yourself!" in nearly three years of being here. Some people are a bit extreme in what they do say regarding suicide prevention, but I don't think that a lack of discouragement constitutes encouragement.
No, I'm not a lawyer. I just think it's hard to argue that this website doesn't make people more likely to take their own lives (the definition of 'encouragement'). It provides people with the means to do so: the SN method, descriptions of how to hang yourself and shoot yourself etc.
Someone like Chloe was suicidal for years before her suicide: presumably she'd tried less effective methods, once the SN method was explained to her she was able to exit the world. Without that knowledge she might still be alive.
Hanging yourself is hard, swallowing SN is also hard but less hard. Therefore, the presence of the method makes people more inclined to take their own lives. The knowledge of that method being a crucial link in the chain.
The question for me is whether that is a bad thing: Chloe had been struggling for years; presumably she'd thought long and hard about suicide. If she had treatment-resistant depression you can understand why she took the decision she took. Surely, the whole purpose of this website is to provide people like Chloe with the knowledge to take their own lives? Since knowledge = encouragement, this website does encourage suicide. The question is whether that is a bad thing.
iusedtobehappy
Experienced
- Dec 2, 2023
- 211
A non-suicidal person could come to this site and all the methods in the world wouldn't make them suicidal. People only come here after the fact to see if there are any other methods other than the standard awful ones that scare the hell out of them, but also to know they are not alone. I think in all honesty, this site might, in some cases, save some lives. The sadness of feeling hopeless alone is one of the main reasons ppl become suicidal IMO and talking to others who feel the same way is a form of comfort.
I suppose each method is easier to execute for some than others hence why some people prefer sn to hanging and vice-versa. I'll admit it though, this method makes it easier to go through it but that also depends on how bad the individual wants to go through with it.
It definitely has, there are people who've already mentioned how much this website does for them.
I agree. This forum does have info, and I mean detailed info on how these methods work, its a method that requires a lot of thought and effort into it. With regards to sn, I still find myself quite surprised how much info there is after I've accumulated much of it for myself but I'm still here but for how long is another question,
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TAW122
Emissary of the right to die.
- Aug 30, 2018
- 6,703
Well said @RainAndSadness, the news article is full of lies and misinformation. I thank you for taking the time and effort to rebut their points.
Also, I am relieved to hear that the 43-year woman has finally found peace from life's horrors and future potential suffering as (future) sentience is always a gamble for potential horrors that may arise, some of which out of one's control even.
Also, I am relieved to hear that the 43-year woman has finally found peace from life's horrors and future potential suffering as (future) sentience is always a gamble for potential horrors that may arise, some of which out of one's control even.
BlazingBob
I'm still here b/c of my dogs
- Oct 28, 2021
- 600
So very true. I never thought in a million years my life could get this bad, and will get much worse if I don't put a stop to it (going broke, homelessness, worsening physical health, etc)
PinkyStat
It’s killing me
- Jun 4, 2023
- 143
RainAndSadness
Administrator
- Jun 12, 2018
- 2,132
I don't think that's true. It's all about choice. This website provides information which is supposed to help you make an informed choice, that's basically what the ressources are about. Nothing else. It doesn't tell you what to do and it doesn't encourage you to make a certain choice, it just helps you to make informed choice, right.
Let's compare it with abortion - because honestly, the right to die and abortion are both highly controversial subjects that are essentially about individual autonomy, about your right to make a decision concerning your own life and body but(!) they're treated very differently in the public discourse.
Now, back in 2022 the US overturned Roe vs Wade. That means people who lived in red states suddenly lost access to their reproductive rights. So when I educate a pregnant person about ways to get an abortion because they live in a state where they can't get one and they decide to get an abortion as a result of my advice in another state, did I encourage an abortion there because I'm the one that educated them truthfully about their options? Am I responsible for the death of that fetus? No, I don't think so. I might be responsible for someone making an informed decision but it was an independant decision. I didn't influence it by truthfully laying out options, right. What they do with that information is up to them, that's the point of autonomy and agency. And before anyone suggests that's an entirely different scenario, no it's not - after Roe vs Wade has been overturned, people flocked to the internet to obtain information regarding abortions (and how to regain access) as a result of a legal crackdown.
Visitors to online abortion forum double as fears of Roe overturn rise
Privacy advocates have warned that online activity is not necessarily private even if a person does not publicly reveal their information.
www.nbcnews.com
These people were seeking out ressources that helped them make an informed decision concerning issues regarding their own welfare, issues that affected their individual and bodily autonomy - the same thing you can find in this forum. How is that any different on principle than what's happening in this forum given both the right to die and abortion are now strongly stigmatized and there has been an attempt to make your ability to exercise your rights more difficult?
Oh and look at that, when people mobilized and gathered online to discuss important needs in protest of oppressive legislation, what happened? Exactly, there was an attempt to silence and censor these conversations.
And that's exactly what happened to us too, right. There was a bill not too long ago with the intention to criminalize this forum. This is literally identical, the only difference here is that the media claims we encourage suicide while people who are pro-choice in the context of reproductive rights are ususally portrayed in a positive light.
Even the media told people how to avoid prosecution for committing a crime in their own state.
So again, I don't think this forum makes people commits suicide but the information on this forum might have played a role in the method someone picked. As I said in the past, this forum doesn't influence suicide numbers, it might influence methodology. But that doesn't mean we encourage use of a certain method. That decision is something you make alone, based on the available information that's out there. And we stick to the facts of the PPH when we discuss that method in this forum and that includes the negative side of SN as well, like there are studies that point to some discomfort when you use that method. We don't censor that information and I think that speaks against the claim that we 'encourage' the use of SN. For that same reason I find it absurd to claim that we 'promote' SN as a method, when we do nothing but discuss the available information on that method. I find it very weird to claim that giving someone accurate information encourages a specific action. Like, I don't think that's how it's seen legally and I personally do not find that very compelling either, using basic logic. You would have a case if we actually told members to use SN and if we intentionally censored criticial information about that method but we don't tell members what to do in this forum and we have regular evidence-based discussions about that method in this forum.
So yeah, strong disagreement here. And honestly, if someone ends their life because they have access to information on how to exercise their right to die, I think that tells us more about the state of this world than this forum, don't you think? Like if we can't make people choose life voluntarily(!) and we have to censor information instead and lock them up in psych wards to prevent them from exercising said freedom, maybe life isn't very convincing as it is right now, what do you think? Maybe the problems lie out there, in the way we tackle issues that cause suicides (or rather how we ignore it) and not in a forum that simply educates people on peaceful methods, right? I think it's concerning that for some people death is more attractive than life and it should make us think and introspect if the current strategy is working but there is no sign right now that anyone is interested to change the status quo. Nobody. Again, instead of discussing why people are in this forum, instead of giving suicidal people a voice to talk about their problems, instead of opening a discourse about suicide and if life is worth living when you're alone with your problems in a society that doesn't care, the entire media landscape is more interested in slandering us, calling us pro-suicide and essentially brushing the real issues under the rug, they're conflating the symptom for the cause and that's a huge problem - as I've outlined in my response to the BBC. And as long as we don't understand that and pretend this forum is what makes people commit suicide and not the actual real-life problems that they're exposed to every single day, we will never tackle suicide in a meaningful way.
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Fktw0rld
An end with suffering > Suffering without an end
- Aug 29, 2022
- 404
Agreed. Nobody outright promotes SN at all unless the popularity of the method is confused for being encouraged when it's still not. Even I, someone who has regularly commented on SN, does not ever encourage anyone to use it because I don't have a say in what decisions one will make if they choose to use it to ctb or not.
whitefeather
Thank the gods for Death
- Apr 23, 2020
- 516
Thanks for posting.Woman took her own life with poison she bought online, inquest hears
Chloe Macdermott, 43, took her own life using an unnamed 'product' ordered from the United States in 2021 after she joined an online forum that 'encouraged' suicide.www.dailymail.co.uk
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