An open letter: From a virgin man to incels and adjacents.

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

First of all, thank you for your interest. I'm not very good with words and I tend to get emotional on large spiels but I hope I'll be able to communicate my thoughts. I am a man, around 30 years old, bissexual, and a virgin, grown on "family values" (mainly Christian) but not really tied to them or to the religion they come from (I'm Agnostic tending towards Ignosticism). I'm saying this so that you can where I'm coming from and to give a bit of context to why and how I think.

What I know of incels and adjacents is that they are mostly heterosexual men grown on traditional (most likely patriarchal) values, either in a cultural sense or a literal sense. More or less, they are grown on a patriarchal bubble, particularly regarding sexuality and gender roles, and when that bubble pops and they are shown the diversity of reality, they panic and wish to either impose or adapt their ways, frustrating themselves when they can't do it. Basically, they are fish out of water because they've grown in water that is toxic to most people (And probably are to themselves, though they are used to it).

I'm saying this because incels are humans. They didn't become what they are just because. They've been raised in a harmful place and it has permeated them deeply. What they believe is mostly due to how deeply seated this toxicity has become, and the longer they stay in it, the harder it is to take them out of this mess.

But regardless of how hard it is, I think it's important we communicate to them what we think, even if they think we're wrong or if it's hard for them to believe. So I've prepared a few things I think should be told towards incels.

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STOP USING "INCEL"

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Seriously, what's wrong with calling yourself a "virgin"? The word "incel" is loaded with negative connotations. Even if it is an acronym for "INvoluntary CELibate", its meaning has transcended that. It means men who have a strong sexist stance towards others, specially women. Changing the word won't change who you are, but it sure changes how others initially view you, and that by itself may help you get out of the stigma that has permeated you.

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BEAUTY IS RELATIVE

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"It's in the eye of the beholder", and we're not talking just DnD here. While evolutionary biology identifies cross-cultural, universal markers of physical attractiveness linked to health and genetic fitness (such as facial symmetry and waist-to-hip ratio), Individual variation is significant. Capitalism tries to converge them into unity to more easily sell beauty products and garments, but like everything capitalism does, it's driven by profit and almost all of it is artificial and harmful to actual humans.

Disregarding capitalism, while cultural norms also coalesce towards standards, they are far more flexible and variable, and it just becomes even more variable when at an individual level. It doesn't matter how ugly you think you are, there are people who find you beautiful in a way or another. You may not find them right now, but they exist.

Also, beauty goes beyond the physical realm. You might find beauty on things like voice, or text, or actions. Really, beauty is such a flexible and variable concept that I find surprising how rigid it becomes within the incel community, as if anything outside of that very restrictive apex is nothing short of disgusting. Perhaps part of it is self inflicted by the toxicity within the group, but that's speculation on my part.

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"GAME" IS ABUSIVE

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As the main grievance of the incel community is being a virgin, no wonder scammers created a whole concept to scam them wholesale. "Game" doesn't exist outside the very people that profit with it. It's as real as Cure-all.

The "Alpha" wolf theory was disproved for wild wolves (it was based on captive, unrelated wolves forming unnatural dominance hierarchies). While primatologists do observe alpha/beta/omega hierarchies in primates like chimpanzees, attempting to map these animal behaviors onto human dating dynamics is scientifically baseless. Trying to apply this disproven theory into picking up women is honestly so illogical, I wonder how it even caught on.

Actually, I know how it caught on. It's desperation. It's the toxicity the community pushes, that you are a failure because you are not an "Alpha", that you are lesser, that you are unwanted, that you MUST have sex, because otherwise you lose the "Game". That's what the scammer tells you, and you believe because you want to win. You are a victim, my friend, a victim of a grifter, and I tell you this not as an insult, but as a way for you to understand they took advantage of your vulnerability, and should not be trusted anymore by you or anyone else.

So overall, "Game" is abusive towards others and towards you as well. The whole incel community are being scammed to be taught how to be abusive and manipulative towards others, mostly women, thinking that's how the world works, but in reality, they're just being a pawn of toxicity. Would you like someone to lie and manipulate you into sex? Some of you may like it as a fetish, but believe me, real world doesn't work like fantasies.

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So, in conclusion, you cannot be loved for being good at some "Game" grifters invented to profit out of you, or for being an "Alpha" based on chimp behavior, or because you conform to a beauty standard. You can only be loved for who you are, not for what a community that values lies and scams tells you should be.

I'm open to questions, but understand that I'm not the master of the truth. All of this has been an opinion, with a bit of research to back part of it. You are welcome to disagree, but please, BE CIVIL! I intend here to be a place not of clash, but of exchange of ideas. Everyone here is human and flawed, so let's treat everyone as such, okay?

 

[Aknu132]

I loved your text, you seem like a really nice person to be around. In life, even bad people suffer; the incel community is horrible to others, but at the same time, they also suffer a lot. Life itself is suffering for almost everyone, and yet people continue to perpetuate life. It would be so much better if life had no chance of existing in the universe so that no one would suffer in any way.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

Sometimes I think like that too. Suffering sucks, and while life allows suffering, it also allows us to mitigate part of it, either for ourselves or for others. If we can't end suffering outright, we should at least try to decrease it where we can.

I made the post because while I see some outright psychopathic incels, I also see incels who are just lonely and want love. The community itself is terrible, but there are genuinely good people that could be taken off that toxic pit to allow them to recover. That is my way of decreasing suffering. And I hope at least one person suffers less because of me.

Also, thanks for the compliment. Mama bear is always available for everyone if they need someone, sweetie.

 

[Aknu132]

Sometimes I think like that too. Suffering sucks, and while life allows suffering, it also allows us to mitigate part of it, either for ourselves or for others. If we can't end suffering outright, we should at least try to decrease it where we can.

Yes, we should spread as much love as possible, at least to make someone's day better, to lessen a little the suffering that people go through.

I made the post because while I see some outright psychopathic incels, I also see incels who are just lonely and want love. The community itself is terrible, but there are genuinely good people that could be taken off that toxic pit to allow them to recover. That is my way of decreasing suffering. And I hope at least one person suffers less because of me.

There are things that some incels say about women that reach an absurd level of cruelty. Sometimes I wonder if they will actually do what they say, and I really hope not. But yes, there are some incels who, despite being pulled into that sick community, can still be saved and change their mindset of blaming women for everything.

Also, thanks for the compliment. Mama bear is always available for everyone if they need someone, sweetie.

You're so sweet, i love how lovely you are, you makes the day brighter, especially in this world with so many empty people.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

There are things that some incels say about women that reach an absurd level of cruelty. Sometimes I wonder if they will actually do what they say, and I really hope not. But yes, there are some incels who, despite being pulled into that sick community, can still be saved and change their mindset of blaming women for everything.

The community itself is a magnet to all kinds of nasty people. Some are nasty in what they say, others in what they do, and a few are both. Sometimes I wonder if some of the denizens believe it's just a big fantasy like the Omegaverse (NSFW, just in case you look it up) or if they truly believe the world is like that, either by assimilation, delusion or purpose.

In any case, I personally believe people can get out and get clean, if they're not one of the aforementioned nasty people that do it on purpose. Having a community doesn't have to cost you your respect towards others or yourself. If you are in a community that does that, you should get out into another, better community.

You're so sweet, i love how lovely you are, you makes the day brighter, especially in this world with so many empty people.

You make mama blush, sweetheart. I'm here to make people feel better and loved, even if just a little. Mama bear always has room for another cub in her warm heart.

 

[klantedklaw]

Thanks for posting this thread. A lot of Neurodivergent people and/or those with mental illnesses/ trauma struggle to form connections and make friends, let alone have healthy romantic relationships/ have sex. As you said, "Incel" just means involuntarily celibate - just because the term has been appropriated by misogynists and toxic extremeists doesn't automatically mean you identify or resonate with any of their beliefs, that's such an absurd assumption. It's an offensive stereotype based on one characteristic, its no different to stereotyping a blonde german person as being a Nazi or a black person as being a criminal.

The assumption people make about Incels demonizes and outcasts them even more - many of these people are traumatized and/or inflicted with mental illnesses and haven't done anything wrong. Would you call a rape victim an Incel if they're traumatized and can't have sex? What about someone with crippling social anxiety with no friends? or someone with severe depression and depersonalisation?

Many vulnerable people are already struggling with mental issues; getting hate for a downstream effect of their mental struggles and being demonized for being a virgin makes their pain even worse. The cultural and social value of sex, especially for men in the form of arbitrary notions of masculinity & "alpha culture", means society see's those as unable to have sex as inferior, pathetic and worthless. That culture extends to online spaces too, where even on places like Sasu, a place literally filled to the brim with chronically lonely and mentally unwell people, many of who don't even have any real connections, you still have people making offensive assumptions and hating on people unable to have sex.

I think that mysgonists and extremists should get hate for spouting their ideas and lots of people do hate on them, however the angry mob needs to distinguish between Incels and the memebers of "Incel culture" and not make judgements about others just because they're a virgin. I've met plenty of Incels, none of which harbor any hatred towards women - they're just broken people unable to have sex, thats it.

The dictionary and social definitions of "Incel" are completely different and just because someone can't have sex doesn't mean you can project an entire ideology on them. Don't let anyone define your worth, let alone because of something so surface level like sex.

 

[violetforever]

one of the best threads ive ever read on here! <3 and you're excellent with words.