Amazon sued by dozen families for selling SN “suicide kits” to <21 yos

[MBG]

Grieving families suing Amazon for selling 'suicide kits' to teens

At least a dozen families are suing Amazon over the sale of Sodium Nitrite, a household solvent which is deadly at high potency and has become a more popular means of suicide.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[DreamEnd]

families-suing-amazon-cheap-sodium-nitrate-suicide-kits

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13029579/amp/families-suing-amazon-cheap-sodium-nitrate-suicide-kits.html What do you think? Should Amazon be held liable?

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[MiMif]

I didn't know they sold that...but like the people bought it knowing what would happen and probably on purpose so can that even be a lawsuit? It's not like they killed them.

 

[uzuf86]

I thought Amazon stopped selling SN at least a year ago, I'm confused now..!?>!

 

[DreamEnd]

I thought Amazon stopped selling SN at least a year ago, I'm confused now..!?>!

they stopped but the lawsuits keep coming lol

 

[sanction]

I think won't be easy to sue Amazon, because SN is made for preserving meat in the end. Its kind of like selling kitchen knives, ropes, or barbeque charcoal. People can use knives to stab themselves, rope to hang themselves, or charcoal to kill themselves with the barbeque charcoal method

Or they could even sue high rise buildings, for not adding fence around the edges, leading to people jumping off buildings to suicide

I think the families need to instead ask themselves, why they weren't able to raise or take care of their children in a better way, leading to them not wanting to live, instead of trying to find other sources to blame

Of course I understand the family's frustration. But now we are living in the internet age. So kids aren't so innocent anymore. They have access to unlimited amount of different resources via the internet

It definitely sucks. I guess its just the harsh reality we all need to start accepting. The world has indeed changed. So if still want to bring kids into this new world, during the age of internet and artificial intelligence, where everything changes and moves super fast (and complicated), then also be ready for certain unpredictable outcomes

 

[Thanksforeverything]

Is amazon going to be sued over selling rope next? Like I can definitely understand the grief that can come as a by-product of losing your loved one, but you're kind of putting the cart before the horse in this case.

 

[0000000000000]

With that logic they use, they should then sue themselves for bringing a person into this world, because at the end of the day, being born into this world was what allowed this result in the first place.

Maybe somewhat insensitive from my part but, by bringing someone into this world parents accepted the possibility (without the consent of the person they brought) that a person could suffer to such an extent that the person would decide not to continue with his/her life. Why are they victimizing themselves if they were the ones who allowed this outcome in the first place?

It is a very reductionist view to use a method like a scapegoat for outcomes such as suicide. Why not make this world a warmer and more welcoming place instead of continuing to take away (even more) people's control of their own lives?

The loss of control over your own life is something that can increase anxiety and stress, the less control someone has, the more stress and anxiety they will have. I mean, if someone doesn't have financial stability, then they have less control over their own life and therefore more stress or also when someone loses their vision or at least it is greatly reduced (that is also losing control). Removing options for a relatively peaceful death also reduces control. I think that in part results such as suicide are due to loss of control over your own life.

Removing options only reduces people's autonomy and does not improve their situation nor well-being. It can make them feel trapped and without a way out, thus increasing the likelihood of impulsive attempts that result in ending up in worse outcomes such as surviving in a vegetative state.

Of course, a dignified death should also be accompanied by a dignified life, but unfortunately in this world there is neither for most people.

Also, don't they ever wonder why people prefer to plan their suicide in silence? Or why someone prefers places like this forum instead of asking for the so-called "help" that is offered today? Do they believe that the world is an utopia and that suicide is solely the product of the "evil" forum and "evil" methods?

---

-You say this forum and suicides are a symptom of a world populated by war, inequality, discrimination, abuse, excessive competition, pollution, labor exploitation, insecurity, lack of basic needs and many other problems that affect the mind and body?

-Nah, i don't think so, let's focus and spend resources on taking more agency away from people. That will surely make them value life more.

-Improve people's lives and the world to the point where people choose to continue to live by own choice instead of living because they have no choice?

-No, no, no, you are not entilted to demand that. Why don't you value what you have? Do you even think about the pain you will leave to others? You are so selfish.

 

[throneofdispair03]

i think it's stupid to sue given that sodium nitrate is more commonly used to preserve meats and poultry. with the same dumb logic, they should start sueing all knife companies, sky scraper constructors, rope manufacturers and anything else that someone might try to CTB with, even if it wasn't the product's intended purpose. smh.

With that logic they use, they should then sue themselves for bringing a person into this world, because at the end of the day, being born into this world was what allowed this result.

also this ^

 

[sanction]

i think it's stupid to sue given that sodium nitrate is more commonly used to preserve meats and poultry. with the same dumb logic, they should start sueing all knife companies, sky scraper constructors, rope manufacturers and anything else that someone might try to CTB with, even if it wasn't the product's intended purpose. smh.

also this ^

Exactly. At that point, literally anything can be considered dangerous. You can even use a computer or mobile phone to smash it on your head until you die, or drive a car to crash it into a wall at full speed, or buy some gasoline and drink it until you die (or light yourself on fire), etc.

I'm pretty sure Amazon has some long ass terms & conditions on their site, where you clicked "accept" upon signing up. But there is a small chance if these parents keep pushing it and give Amazon bad publicity, maybe they will do a one time deal to settle it, since they are loaded with money. But even if that happens, it doesn't change much in the long-term

Kids will continue to CTB either way. There are endless other places online they can still gather all sorts of different things and ideas to CTB. It is unstoppable. Just stop having kids is the best solution

Humans in general, just need to reset their brains towards a new and different logic. Not everyone wants to come to this world to go to school, work for decades to stress about paying bills, just to eventually witness their parents die, before themselves later also aging and declining, just to also die. Its really that simple

This is not going on vacation, and asking your friend to tag along so you can have fun together. This is LIFE. Which is like a forced jail sentence for most people

 

[betternever2havbeen]

Didn't they already throw their lawsuit out? At least the comments on that daily mail article were mostly on Amazon's side, which is a welcome surprise. Is there anyone parents won't try and blame for anything and everything these days. Remember when kids were a parents responsibility until age 18? Depressed to the point of suicide and you didn't even have a clue? Jesus christ. Guess if they can "win" their lawsuit they can carry on living in denial. Article calls it an "agonising" death as well

 

[rozeske]

Those are the absolute lucky ones who took advantage of the situation back when SN was easily available on Amazon. I think the family is suing because there never was some kind of warning about the danger of SN on the page. I bet those people were very much aware of the dangers of ingesting sn. Do they really believe someone who learnt about a peaceful way to die and had decided to search for it is going to back down from buying because they read that sn is dangers. This is just an attempt in hopes of wining money from the lawsuit.

Article calls it an "agonising" death as well

This is just laughable

 

[Sid19]

It's really a grim future for people who are looking for ctb in the future. I see sn slowly becoming one of the most regulated chemicals soon and will be hard to get one. I also read in the article saying Amazon sold kits where sometimes it had methods to ctb as well as antimetics? It seems like hoax to me.

 

[Thanksforeverything]

It's really a grim future for people who are looking for ctb in the future. I see sn slowly becoming one of the most regulated chemicals soon and will be hard to get one. I also read in the article saying Amazon sold kits where sometimes it had methods to ctb as well as antimetics? It seems like hoax to me.

This. Considering how popular SN in becoming, particularly in places like Korea, a few years from now it's going to be very heavily regulated. But I'm pretty sure someone's probably just going to find some kind of alternative that would serve the same purpose.

But considering SN could have a shelf life of almost 5 years if sealed properly, I didn't hesitate to buy it the first chance I got.

 

[Sid19]

This. Considering how popular SN in becoming, particularly in places like Korea, a few years from now it's going to be very heavily regulated. But I'm pretty sure someone's probably just going to find some kind of alternative that would serve the same purpose.

But considering SN could have a shelf life of almost 5 years if sealed properly, I didn't hesitate to buy it the first chance I got.

Is it proven scientifically that sn has a shelf life for 5 years if stored correctly?

Also how do one store it so it stays intact and as pure as it is in the present time?

 

[Linda]

i think it's stupid to sue given that sodium nitrate is more commonly used to preserve meats and poultry. with the same dumb logic, they should start sueing all knife companies, sky scraper constructors, rope manufacturers and anything else that someone might try to CTB with, even if it wasn't the product's intended purpose. smh.

also this ^

You mean sodium nitrite,chemical formula NaNO2, Sodium nitrate is NaNO3, and it won't harm you. (Won't preserve meat either.)

 

[trashhologram]

So Amazon should quit selling things like rope, bleach, knives, razors etc. too because they can be used to kill a person? I almost chuckled when there was a quote in the article that was something like "if they hadn't gotten SN they would still be alive". Probably not. That kid most likely would have used another method. I do understand and know the pain of the families affected by suicide but we can't ban everything that can be used as a suicide method.

 

[silent.desperation]

It's just like the Daily Mail to post an image of a bottle of Sodium Nitrate...

 

[Kta1994]

More people are going to know about SN because of this

 

[throneofdispair03]

You mean sodium nitrite,chemical formula NaNO2, Sodium nitrate is NaNO3, and it won't harm you. (Won't preserve meat either.)

oops, just saw that error. my bad

 

[dysthymia]

I think it shouldn't be a big deal if SN get controlled as long as its precursors are available. It can be synthesised. and I'm sure some people will sell it illegally

 

[dggtscccvfd]

I think it shouldn't be a big deal if SN get controlled as long as its precursors are available. It can be synthesised. and I'm sure some people will sell it illegally

A few illegal sellers will never be able to match the availability SN had when it was available on EBay and Amazon for 20 bucks. The glory days of SN suicide are long gone: it'll now be a niche method for those with access to it (lab workers, those working in food manufacturing, education workers). It's sad but suicide has always had trends: going back 50 years it was popular to stick your head in the oven and turn on the gas as ovens used town gas which contained CO. Going back 30 years, it was popular to run a car in a garage and kill yourself with the fumes, which contained CO. SN suicide is just another trend that has passed over the last 5 years or so. They'll be new methods in time.

 

[dysthymia]

A few illegal sellers will never be able to match the availability SN had when it was available on EBay and Amazon for 20 bucks. The glory days of SN suicide are long gone: it'll now be a niche method for those with access to it (lab workers, those working in food manufacturing, education workers).

SN is still widely available in my (developing) country, I can buy it for cheap. Sad it's not the case for developed countries

 

[dggtscccvfd]

SN is still widely available in my (developing) country, I can buy it for cheap. Sad it's not the case for developed countries

It's strange that developing countries have been slower to restrict SN than developed countries, but restrictions will come eventually.

 

[UKscotty]

The media loves to over hype stuff, I bet there are less than a couple of hundred deaths related to SN. The reality is that whilst it is supposedly peaceful it is very slow and a lot of people will be filled with regret and call for help anyway. Its not some miracle substance for people to kill themselves.

How about they ban ropes, barbecues or sulfide products which are significantly more lethal.

They can't possibly expect every seller to delist SN whilst it is widely used in the food industry.

If the media really cared, they would instead attack the government for doing almost nothing for suicide prevention or help for those suffering. Instead they attack Amazon, who ironically are probably paying their advertising revenue and hosting their sites. The media is a total joke.

 

[dggtscccvfd]

The media loves to over hype stuff, I bet there are less than a couple of hundred deaths related to SN. The reality is that whilst it is supposedly peaceful it is very slow and a lot of people will be filled with regret and call for help anyway. Its not some miracle substance for people to kill themselves.

How about they ban ropes, barbecues or sulfide products which are significantly more lethal.

They can't possibly expect every seller to delist SN whilst it is widely used in the food industry.

If the media really cared, they would instead attack the government for doing almost nothing for suicide prevention or help for those suffering. Instead they attack Amazon, who ironically are probably paying their advertising revenue and hosting their sites. The media is a total joke.

That seems to be part of the problem. There have been cases where a person ingested SN, regretted it and called for help, and still died. That is quite tragic and you do wonder why it happens. Nevertheless, stories like that encourage the anti-SN brigade. 'Oh it's an evil poison that kills even those who don't want to die'.

 

[AnHeroTransGirl]

Remind me again why this family is suing when they simply could just monitor their kids like normal parents? And if their kid was suicidal to begin with then clearly they weren't bothering to help him recover mentally. The fact that blaming the company and not themselves for making their kid kill themselves was their first thought shows that they don't give a shit and that they just want lawsuit money for being the "little guys punching up".

 

[wait.what]

Remember when kids were a parents responsibility until age 18?

No. When I was a kid in the 1980's, there was some stupid scare about how heavy metal records caused kids to commit suicide by sending subliminal messages in secret lyrics you could only hear if you played the record backwards. Which was apparently something we were all doing.

People have always liked simple answers and scapegoats.

I've never understood why nobody ever makes a peep about Philip Nitschke and his book, the print version of which is easy to find & purchase. Not because I wish him ill, but because that is where we get most of our non-obvious information, including info about SN. Do people think we just wander through industrial laboratories, swallowing random things until we find one that kills us?

Whatever. Nitschke probably has no money to speak of, while Amazon has lots. So go sue them instead.

 

[betternever2havbeen]

@wait.what yeah that's true, some parents have always blamed others for their kids actions. It's so much easier to be like "they were manipulated into this by evil outside forces" than accept the truth. That must be a hard pill to swallow. I just wish they weren't so indulged, and never questioned by anyone because "grieving parents" so we can't ask them any difficult questions. I wonder if they ever get therapy? Because they need it.

I don't know too much about Philip Nitschke but it seems he has been careful to tailor his products to the over-50s and been MUCH smarter about it than KL so far. There has been the odd case of younger people getting onto his site and getting hold of N through it though (back when it was available) and CTB. So there are definitely some parents after him as well he's just not such an easy target.