Afterlife proof?

[Lisa]

Sorry if i answered late, but i'm using tor so i log-in rarely.
Well, i think that those cases weren't studied with modern medicine techniques, since they happened in the 19/20th century. The causes of the deaths weren't specified. Who knows what chemicals reactions happened in their brains? Ok, but let's assume that this TL is truly something of really spiritual. Then why those TL happened to such a small group of people with dementia? I think that this is just another case where something of apparently inexplicable by science is getting targeted as magic.

There are tons of modern cases. Just visit a hospice or do a google search. I can't do all the research for you. I guess I could but I won't.

It's simple. Either the spirit is becoming less encumbered by the malfunctioning brain (in favor of an afterlife), or some biochemical change offsets the diseased brain in some way (not in favor of afterlife). Although, if it's a biological effect, it seems odd that it might occur in both schizophrenia and in Alzheimer's patients, as those are biologically very different problems, which points to an afterlife.

The point is no one knows if an afterlife exists or not.

But Thoughts95 said something of import. His desire to not impact anyone's ideas on death. I definitely don't want to do that either. I hope all my posts make it clear that I don't know for certain either way. I hope that others posts who claim they do know don't effect people negatively either. The reason people defend their beliefs so strongly is because it's often linked to their desire and or ability/ inability to exit. So I hope that everyone sees that. Swaying someone in one direction or other can make them more or less likely to ctb. So please be careful not to say you know or 100 percent or things of that nature, as such statements are false and irresponsible.

 

[Malice1]

But Thoughts95 said something of import. His desire to not impact anyone's ideas on death. I definitely don't want to do that either. I hope all my posts make it clear that I don't know for certain either way. I hope that others posts who claim they do know don't effect people negatively either. The reason people defend their beliefs so strongly is because it's often linked to their desire and or ability to exit. So I hope that everyone sees that. Swaying someone in one direction or other can make them more or less likely to ctb. So please be careful not to say you know or 100 percent or things of that nature, as such statements are false and irresponsible.

Last paragraph is true. I'd advise people to read this topic at their own risk as it might stop them from ctbing, but i guess its alittle too late for that now (this post is 200 posts in). It was going to be difficult for me regardless but the 100% material atheist aren't really helping (not to be bias, i'm kind of worried about an afterlife too). Best to prepare for both outcomes (non-existence and afterlife) just in case.

 

[dangier_to_myself]

Last paragraph is true. I'd advise people to read this topic at their own risk as it might stop them from ctbing, but i guess its alittle too late for that now (this post is 200 posts in). It was going to be difficult for me regardless but the 100% material atheist aren't really helping (not to be bias, i'm kind of worried about an afterlife too). Best to prepare for both outcomes (non-existence and afterlife) just in case.

"The end of man is knowledge, but there is one thing he can't know. He can't know whether knowledge will save him or kill him. He will be killed, all right, but he can't know whether he is killed because of the knowledge which he has got or because of the knowledge which he hasn't got and which if he had it, would save him. There's a cold in your stomach, but you open the envelope, you have to open the envelope, for the end of man is to know."
-Robert Penn Warren

 

[Malice1]

User interface hides the implementation. Even evolution does this. I can't help but feel like if there is an afterlife then its existence was intentionally hidden from us for the same reason implementation is hidden although i could be wrong. Think about how many people would kill themselves (or try to) if they "knew" there was an afterlife.

 

[Lisa]

User interface hides the implementation. Even evolution does this. I can't help but feel like if there is an afterlife then its existence was intentionally hidden from us for the same reason implementation is hidden although i could be wrong. Think about how many people would kill themselves (or try to) if they "knew" there was an afterlife.

I totally agree.

 

[Tiredman]

It'll remain one of life's biggest mysteries until science can somehow prove it. They still haven't proven how life began or why the big bang happened so science still has a long way to go...

 

[tMartin]

There are tons of modern cases.

It happens only in the 5-10% of the deaths caused by alzehimer. It's not something of common,i think that if this was something of spiritual/magic it would happen to a bigger group of people, since everyone should have a spirit.

So please be careful not to say you know or 100 percent or things of that nature, as such statements are false and irresponsible.

Before all of my statements I add "i think", because obvioulsy I'm only expressing my opinion. Nobody should take our post seriously, since we are just strangers without any professional proof about what we are saying.

 

[Lisa]

It happens only in the 5-10% of the deaths caused by alzehimer. It's not something of common,i think that if this was something of spiritual/magic it would happen to a bigger group of people, since everyone should have a spirit.



Before all of my statements I add "i think", because obvioulsy I'm only expressing my opinion. Nobody should take our post seriously, since we are just strangers without any professional proof about what we are saying.

"You think" blah blah blah

That's the point buddy

You don't know

No one does

And it's doesnt matter what you think
Or what I think
Etc

It will be what it will be

 

[tMartin]

I agree that no one knows, but at least instead of creating spirits I'm rationally trying to understand why things happen. And i've just shown you that Terminal Lucidity is not something of magic. Bye.

 

[Lisa]

I agree that no one knows, but at least instead of creating spirits I'm rationally trying to understand why things happen. And i've just shown you that Terminal Lucidity is not something of magic. Bye.

You've shown nothing

How exactly have you shown that?

You haven't explained why it occurs, you've shown exactly nothing.

But that's ok because scientists and doctors etc haven't been able to say for certain how this happens either.

You're exemplifying the obvious.

There's no proven explanation.

Not for TL and not for what happens after death.

Sorry dear

 

[tMartin]

It happens only in the 5-10% of the deaths caused by alzehimer. It's not something of common,i think that if this was something of spiritual/magic it would happen to a bigger group of people, since everyone should have a spirit.

It's called logic.
>You are assuming that every human has a spirit, so every person suffering from dementia should have one
>But only a small group of them had a Terminal Lucidity experience before death

 

[Lisa]

It's called logic.
>You are assuming that every human has a spirit, so every person suffering from dementia should have one
>But only a small group of them had a Terminal Lucidity experience before death

Assume nothing

 

[tMartin]

Check this out
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...case-collection.pdf?origin=publication_detail
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...case-collection.pdf?origin=publication_detail

The interesting part:

At present, we think that it is not possible to formulate definitive mechanisms for terminal lucidity. Indeed, terminal lucidity in differing mental disorders might result from different processes, depending on the etiology of the diseases. For example, cachexia in chronically ill patients might conceivably cause shrinking of brain tissue, relieving the pressure exerted by space-occupying intracranial lesions and permitting fleeting return of some brain function.As early as 1826, two distinct ways were described in which terminal lucidity can manifest (Burdach, 1826). First, the degree of mental derangement can decrease slowly in conjunction with the decline of bodily vitality. The cases of schizophrenia and other cases of the older literature belong to this category. Second, full mental clarity can emerge suddenly just before dying. The presented cases involving brain tumors and Alzheimer's disease belong to this second category. These observations suggest that there may be no unitary mechanism behind terminal lucidity.

 

[Kfoe!12]

Of course, our most active thread is debating theology, thankfully it's rather civil, productive and informative.

 

[Lisa]

Check this out
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...case-collection.pdf?origin=publication_detail

The interesting part:

At present, we think that it is not possible to formulate definitive mechanisms for terminal lucidity. Indeed, terminal lucidity in differing mental disorders might result from different processes, depending on the etiology of the diseases. For example, cachexia in chronically ill patients might conceivably cause shrinking of brain tissue, relieving the pressure exerted by space-occupying intracranial lesions and permitting fleeting return of some brain function.As early as 1826, two distinct ways were described in which terminal lucidity can manifest (Burdach, 1826). First, the degree of mental derangement can decrease slowly in conjunction with the decline of bodily vitality. The cases of schizophrenia and other cases of the older literature belong to this category. Second, full mental clarity can emerge suddenly just before dying. The presented cases involving brain tumors and Alzheimer's disease belong to this second category. These observations suggest that there may be no unitary mechanism behind terminal lucidity.

Lots of "We think," "Might," "Possibly," etc

Wake up mate

You're not dead

You don't know

Get over it

You said Bye

Why are you still messaging about this

 

[tMartin]

Lots of "We think," "Might," "Possibly," etc

I don't think that you know how scientific method works

Wake up mate

Well so you want to give your money to a medium and you say that i need to wake up? hahahahahah

I'm messaging about this because i want to share my opinion (are you the only one that can do it?).
Get informed about the human brain and you'll understand that there are no spirits.

 

[Tiredman]

In my opinion if there is an after life it has to be something universal and not restricted to one religion's interpretation. The Sentinelese tribe in the Indian Ocean is a community that has never had contact with outsiders. I refuse to believe that they are all doomed to hell because they dont believe in Jesus. That would be absurd because they have no concept of Christianity.

 

[Lisa]

In my opinion if there is an after life it has to be something universal and not restricted to one religion's interpretation. The Sentinelese tribe in the Indian Ocean is a community that has never had contact with outsiders. I refuse to believe that they are all doomed to hell because they dont believe in Jesus. That would be absurd because they have no concept of Christianity.

I totally agree and many people who have NDE's say that is their experience during the NDE.

 

[InAust.]

Explain the Mandela effect please...?

And if you believe it or it is real, what implications does that have for this topic of conversation... I started an exclusive thread on it in off topic area.

 

[Tiredman]

Explain the Mandela effect please...?

And if you believe it or it is real, what implications does that have for this topic of conversation... I started an exclusive thread on it in off topic area.

Its a phenomenon where large groups of people often have similar memories of things that didn't happen in our timeline but theoretically could have happened in an alternate history or parallel universe. Some believers in this theory say its evidence for time travel. For example a lot of people remember Nelson Mandela dying in the 80s whereas in our timeline he didn't actually die until 2013. I dont really know if it relates to the possibility of an afterlife too much.

 

[InAust.]

Its a phenomenon where large groups of people often have similar memories of things that didn't happen in our timeline but theoretically could have happened in an alternate history or parallel universe. Some believers in this theory say its evidence for time travel. For example a lot of people remember Nelson Mandela dying in the 80s whereas in our timeline he didn't actually die until 2013. I dont really know if it relates to the possibility of an afterlife too much.

It sure does relate to the afterlife...

The assumption is that we don't just die...

 

[Tiredman]

It sure does relate to the afterlife...

The assumption is that we don't just die...

I could see how the alternate reality / parallel universe part of it could tie into it I guess. Like Assuming that we live on through those places? Idk what you mean exactly.

 

[Lucas]

I refuse to believe that they are all doomed to hell because they dont believe in Jesus. That would be absurd because they have no concept of Christianity.

I'm not here to downplay anybody's religion, if you have faith, good for you.

I don't personally believe in the bible though just for the reason that if we cannot even get accurate information with social media and phones in today's world without it being a game of broken telephone, how can we expect that any information and stories in the bible would have made it today unscathed? Same goes with all the religions.

 

[El Topo]

I totally agree and many people who have NDE's say that is their experience during the NDE.

I listen to a podcast called Rune Soup, and one of the episodes was an interview with a nurse who researches NDE's. You might find it interesting:

https://runesoup.com/2016/09/talking-near-death-experiences-with-dr-penny-sartori/

 

[Lisa]

I listen to a podcast called Rune Soup, and one of the episodes was an interview with a nurse who researches NDE's. You might find it interesting:

https://runesoup.com/2016/09/talking-near-death-experiences-with-dr-penny-sartori/

Wow thank you El Topo I'll check it out and report back

I'm editing this to add that I just watched it
It was good thanks for sending buddy

 

[Tiredman]

Interesting video on near death experiences

 

[Lisa]

Interesting video on near death experiences

Oh thank you Tiredman I'll watch it now

Edit: it was very good I liked it tyty

 

[shattered dreams]

I tend to believe in an afterlife. Right before my mom died, she said she saw her mother who passed 9 years earlier. Since I know my time is up I have been extensively studying nde's. This guy has been the best resource for me.

http://www.nderf.org/

Here is an excellent interview of him.

 

[Lisa]

I tend to believe in an afterlife. Right before my mom died, she said she saw her mother who passed 9 years earlier. Since I know my time is up I have been extensively studying nde's. This guy has been the best resource for me.

http://www.nderf.org/

Here is an excellent interview of him.

Thank You I'll watch it now

I have been reading about his studies and watching his YouTube videos too

Very informative

Maybe someday they can prove the afterlife like in the Netflix movie called The Discovery with Robert Redford

 

[whingebag]

There is no proof of an afterlife,any theories are pure speculation.