AA and Twelve Steppers

[OldDrummer]

Just curious to know the thoughts and options of fellow SS'ers on AA and the 12 Step Programme?

Tried it myself a number of years ago, was really nervous going in, but they're nice people on the whole.

What I couldn't buy was the reliance on the "Higher Power". I'm an atheist and it didn't work for me, even though you can attribute the higher power to something other than God.

But in terms of vibe, there was much more laughter than tears going on in the rooms.

Every time someone mentioned the wisdom of Bill W. and the 'Big Book' I immediately thought it was like a Scientologist eulogising L.Ron Hubbard and Dianetics.

The more I tried to get into it, the more 'culty' I saw it to be. Don't get me wrong, in terms of cults, it's a pretty benign one and helps a lot of people.

 

[Oblivion Access]

Peer support is an excellent modality imo, but the "i am an addict, i am powerless" mentality and the insistence on a higher power are both a huge turn-off and compromise it's utility - I'd say in order to leave addiction behind one should form an identity as removed from using as possible. Afaik success rates are something abyssmal like 15% but don't quote me on that, can't recall where I read it.

 

[Life_and_Death]

There's a non religious 12 steps, just so you know.

 

[OldDrummer]

Afaik success rates are something abyssmal like 15% but don't quote me on that, can't recall where I read it.

I was originally going to mention that in my OP, but like you, I couldn't remember the source.

I listened to an old Joe Rogan podcast with Steve-O today who successfully stayed sober using the programme.

He hit the nail on the head when he said it only works for the really f*cked up and the more f*cked up you are, the better it works.

I don't think it works for "functioning" alcoholics, or those who haven't bottomed out badly.

Still, 15% is better than 0%.

The other issue I had with it was the constant reminder of alcohol. Let's say you're addicted to Chocolate Cake, and yet you have to attend a meeting every day where people talk about nothing other than Chocolate Cake. What's going to be on your mind all day? It ain't gonna be salad, that's for sure.

There's a non religious 12 steps, just so you know.

Yeah, in my case they suggested that God could be an acronym for "Good Orderly Direction". One guy told about another AA'er who attributed his higher power to a particular bus that drove past his house every day.

For me, egoist that I am, I just couldn't get over the higher power concept. I like to own my sh*t.

 

[Oblivion Access]

Yeah ofc, it's gr8 that it works for the people it does work for. But it feeds into the rather underhanded rehab industry and gets lauded as one of the only possible solutions, with ppl getting court mandated meetings and such which is a waste of everyone's time. The biggest problem with AA and rehab imo is it takes resources away from working on methods that are more effective/innovative.

 

[OldDrummer]

with ppl getting court mandated meetings and such which is a waste of everyone's time.

Another issue I was going to mention in my OP. What a disgrace that is, and thankfully only happens in the USA.

 

[Life_and_Death]

Yeah, in my case they suggested that God could be an acronym for "Good Orderly Direction". One guy told about another AA'er who attributed his higher power to a particular bus that drove past his house every day.

For me, egoist that I am, I just couldn't get over the higher power concept. I like to own my sh*t.

I actually believe I'm my own god. I believe everyone is their own god. I'm the one that makes my own choices and at least I can prove I'm real.

 

[Forever Dead]

After drinking 4 bottles of wine a day for several weeks at the height of my alcoholism, a 6 foot chicken with a cowboy hat on crawled out from under my bed and said " Yo bitch how ya doin ". This was when I realised that I really must stop dtinking and seek help. I went to several AA meetings and found it to be benificial despite the big bearded asshole in the sky bullshit.

 

[myopybyproxy]

in order to leave addiction behind one should form an identity as removed from using as possible.

This.

How the hell are you ever supposed to overcome addiction if you don't take ownership of your actions? Their very first Step directly contradicts that. And the idea of a random object being one's Higher Power is laughable. They just can't admit that they're religious. They were founded in a church. There's nothing wrong with being religious but it's just false advertising to claim the 12 Steps are not.

Also, the fact that their success rate is not only so low, but that they brush off their failure to help as being the fault of those who seek their help - 'it works if you work it', 'keep coming back', etc etc all those other bullshit aphorisms they drill into you - reminds me of psychiatry. Let's not go there.

 

[OldDrummer]

Also, the fact that their success rate is not only so low, but that they brush off their failure to help as being the fault of those who seek their help

Totally agree, but even if they help 15%, it's better than 0%.

 

[myopybyproxy]

Totally agree, but even if they help 15%, it's better than 0%.

It's better for those 15%, but not the other 85% who have been invalidated to the point of being gaslit and abused. There needs to be acknowledgement that there are many paths to a healthier life and there is no one Right Way to do it. 12 Step is convinced that their way is the Right Way and no one could possibly ever get sober on their own; if they do they were considered to 'not really have a problem in the first place'. (Psychiatrists much? Lmao.)

 

[OldDrummer]

It's better for those 15%, but not the other 85% who have been invalidated to the point of being gaslit and abused. There needs to be acknowledgement that there are many paths to a healthier life and there is no one Right Way to do it. 12 Step is convinced that their way is the Right Way and no one could possibly ever get sober on their own; if they do they were considered to 'not really have a problem in the first place'. (Psychiatrists much? Lmao.)

True, but I'm a glass-half-full type of dude. Plus I saw plenty of 13th stepping going on, if you know, you know.

 

[AnestheticVoid]

Bill W chain smoked cigarettes to the point of dying from it and then asked for alcohol on his deathbed.

 

[KimKevorkian]

I actually believe I'm my own god. I believe everyone is their own god. I'm the one that makes my own choices and at least I can prove I'm real.

Well. I have nothing to say to you. You screwed me over when I was five and wanted that red fire truck. Yeah, you sent one. But did you have to burn down my goddamn house?

True, but I'm a glass-half-full type of dude. Plus I saw plenty of 13th stepping going on, if you know, you know.

I'm definitely down with a glass half full. Sadly, I never was able to drink, even having bartended for years. But coffee? I can drink Mrs. Olsen under the table--and work there--any day of the week!

 

[Sherri]

I went to a few NA meetings honesty I feel the greatest respect to all of you that AA helps. To me I went to 2 sessions and said that's not for me. Cold dark environment. Barely no one talks or welcomes anyone. Maybe I chose the wrong place. Didn't do it for me.

 

[OldDrummer]

I went to a few NA meetings honesty I feel the greatest respect to all of you that AA helps. To me I went to 2 sessions and said that's not for me. Cold dark environment. Barely no one talks or welcomes anyone. Maybe I chose the wrong place. Didn't do it for me.

Wow...maybe try a different group? Not sure where you're from, but in Ireland there's hundreds of groups, more than I ever expected.

I knew a few from my old AA group who were more druggers than drinkers, but it didn't matter because it's all about sobriety at the end of the day.

 

[Life_and_Death]

Well. I have nothing to say to you. You screwed me over when I was five and wanted that red fire truck. Yeah, you sent one. But did you have to burn down my goddamn house

I'm hopeful you're joking (and I think you are) because honestly it wouldn't be the first time someone randomly spouted lies about me that didn't even make sense lol

 

[Sherri]

Wow...maybe try a different group? Not sure where you're from, but in Ireland there's hundreds of groups, more than I ever expected.

I knew a few from my old AA group who were more druggers than drinkers, but it didn't matter because it's all about sobriety at the end of the day.

I wanted to talk and say how great drugs made me feel good, my colleague next to me said it was forbidden to praise drugs I wasn't going to praise drugs just tell my story. I'm in Portugal. I don't plan to go again. Even the drug hotline they all seem to be bored to be on the help lines.

 

[OldDrummer]

I wanted to talk and say how great drugs made me feel good, my colleague next to me said it was forbidden to praise drugs I wasn't going to praise drugs just tell my story. I'm in Portugal. I don't plan to go again. Even the drug hotline they all seem to be bored to be on the help lines.

Although I wasn't ever told what, or what not to say when sharing, I was really careful and never said how good drinking makes me feel as I didn't want to trigger the other members, so I self-censored a lot and eventually gave up sharing at meetings, then eventually gave up on the meetings altogether.

 

[Cathy Ames]

Although I wasn't ever told what, or what not to say when sharing, I was really careful and never said how good drinking makes me feel as I didn't want to trigger the other members, so I self-censored a lot and eventually gave up sharing at meetings, then eventually gave up on the meetings altogether.

The self-censoring is a real bear.