Discussion A permanent solution to a temporary problem?

[The Burning Fool]

I've read this a thousand times and I've never understood how such a stupid argument can be made. I have a temporary problem, let's say my earphones are broken. I find a permanent solution, I get a pair of unbreakable earphones. The solution being permanent is generally a good thing, isn't it? How does this saying make any sense from a pro-life standpoint? I've always seen it as an argument for ctb.

 

[lita-lassi]

technically someone who has ctb isnt there to experience the solution for themselves

e: im not pro-life i just understand that there will always be a contention on the word "solution" surrounding death

 

[FuneralCry]

I find it hard to take pro-lifers who repeat that phrase seriously, the fact that death is permanent is exactly why it appeals to me, and anyway I see the true problem as existence itself which only death can solve for me.

 

[hevlalab]

It is said by people who don't understand depression or suicidal tendencies. They refuse to understand that emotional and mental illness can be permanent, or that it can be painful enough to want a permanent solution. Not all people who commit suicide were depressed, sometimes it's people in crisis. This saying is meant for them. But all in all, it is a very ignorant thing to say when it comes down to depression.

 

[The Burning Fool]

technically someone who has ctb isnt there to experience the solution for themselves

Does a solution necessitate someone being conscious of it? I don't believe so. The cessation of a problem is a solution in its own right.

It is said by people who don't understand depression or suicidal tendencies. They refuse to understand that emotional and mental illness can be permanent, or that it can be painful enough to want a permanent solution. Not all people who commit suicide were depressed, sometimes it's people in crisis. This saying is meant for them. But all in all, it is a very ignorant thing to say when it comes down to depression.

I'm afraid I didn't get my point across. Even if a problem is temporary, it is generally desired of the solution to be permanent, isn't it? Even if my cancer is curable and temporary, I want a permanent treatment that makes it never come back again ideally. Not just a temporary one that only lasts for some time. That's how the argument falls flat on its face.

 

[lita-lassi]

Does a solution necessitate someone being conscious of it? I don't believe so. The cessation of a problem is a solution in its own right.

i agree, cessation is definitely a solution in its own right. its extremely hard for humans around someone whos ctb to view just that part without contextualizing anothers entire existence and coming to the conclusion of "there were other options" despite not possessing that particular brain themselves. there are almost always (technically) other options but no one else can face those options for you and understand your particular set of solutions from your perspective. its a fear response built into our si and rarely anyone knows how to respond calmly in the face of fear. it may be viewed as selfish to state such a thing but its important to recognize those that say it are more scared and feel out of options themselves (hence turning to vague platitudes in desperation). its easy to resent others, its even harder to step back and try to grasp their interpretation or feelings

 

[darknesscomesquick]

This saying is as old as time…and I will admit to being able to see what they are saying when I was younger. However, I've been trying to plug along trudging though trauma work and having to deal with even more trauma pile up. I've been through all sorts of treatments for depression and anxiety from meds to TMS and have even considered ECT for a bit. Let me be the first to tell you THIS IS NOT A TEMPORARY PROBLEM!!! This life and faulty brain of mine is definitely more of a permanent problem that requires a permanent solution.

Yes, I'm sure those I leave behind will have issues to work through. I have had pro-lifers say how selfish I am to think this way. Would they say that to a person with Alzheimer's or any other form of dementia? Would they say it to someone diagnosed with a terminal physical illness? What makes this line of thinking ok to use against someone with a terminal mental illness?

 

[The Burning Fool]

Would they say that to a person with Alzheimer's or any other form of dementia? Would they say it to someone diagnosed with a terminal physical illness?

It's just that they're brainwashed by the illusion of free will. Ultimately it doesn't matter if an axe murderer, a drunk driver, a lightning strike, cancer or suicide kills someone. Humans aren't independent decision making agents, we just pretend to be, but we're fully bound by the known and unknown aspects of our physical environment.

 

[Darkover]

I really hate this saying. You can't guarantee that things will become better. You know why? Because every person is different, experiencing different circumstances.. Even a problem that you view as being minor can affect someone else so traumatically.. because people are different

 

[sserafim]

I've read this a thousand times and I've never understood how such a stupid argument can be made. I have a temporary problem, let's say my earphones are broken. I find a permanent solution, I get a pair of unbreakable earphones. The solution being permanent is generally a good thing, isn't it? How does this saying make any sense from a pro-life standpoint? I've always seen it as an argument for ctb.

In my case, my life and having to live is the permanent problem due to multiple conditions and issues that can't be solved. My neurodivergence will never just magically go away one day, it's life-long and makes my life miserable.

I guess pro-lifers see suicide as a drastic and irreversible way out of something that could've been fixed. They think the problem would've passed eventually, therefore it was only temporary, but suicide and the act of taking your own life is permanent.

I really hate this saying. You can't guarantee that things will become better. You know why? Because every person is different, experiencing different circumstances.. Even a problem that you view as being minor can affect someone else so traumatically.. because people are different

Same! No one can guarantee that things will get better. In my case things are only getting worse. I hate how people have toxic positivity and optimism about the future, they just have blind faith that things will improve

 

[The Burning Fool]

I guess pro-lifers see suicide as a drastic and irreversible way out of something that could've been fixed.

Ctb fixes everything though, doesn't it? Won't ever get thirsty, hungry, lonely or even bored again. I see no downsides for the person that's already dead.

 

[sserafim]

Ctb fixes everything though, doesn't it? Won't ever get thirsty, hungry, lonely or even bored again. I see no downsides for the person that's already dead.

Yeah I guess so but I guess pro-lifers have blind faith and optimism that things would've improved and your situation would've gotten better. Also most people are scared of the idea of death and dying so they don't want you to die because they'll have to confront their own mortality and the fact that they'll die someday as well.

Idk why pro-lifers want people to survive at all costs, but they do. They'd rather us be here suffering and slaving away under the capitalist machine than let us have the freedom to check out.

This saying is as old as time…and I will admit to being able to see what they are saying when I was younger. However, I've been trying to plug along trudging though trauma work and having to deal with even more trauma pile up. I've been through all sorts of treatments for depression and anxiety from meds to TMS and have even considered ECT for a bit. Let me be the first to tell you THIS IS NOT A TEMPORARY PROBLEM!!! This life and faulty brain of mine is definitely more of a permanent problem that requires a permanent solution.

Yes, I'm sure those I leave behind will have issues to work through. I have had pro-lifers say how selfish I am to think this way. Would they say that to a person with Alzheimer's or any other form of dementia? Would they say it to someone diagnosed with a terminal physical illness? What makes this line of thinking ok to use against someone with a terminal mental illness?

Ikr, I hate how they're not understanding of people with terminal mental illnesses. I wish the world was more understanding of neurodivergence and mental illness. However I guess that just because mental illness doesn't manifest physically makes people think it's invisible and doesn't exist, and that it's "all in your head" and you have to "change your mindset"

 

[samsara_96]

This sounds like an extremely flawed argument. I'd assume that pro-life people who use this argument do not believe in an after life because otherwise they would not have used the phrase "permanent solution" considering that many religions argue that people who commit suicide will also suffer in after life. But then they need to argue against suicide without referring to a metaphysical entity not allowing it. Hence, the argument "permanent solution to temporary problem" would fail. Thus, neither people who believe in an after-life nor those who don't can use this argument unless the latter one comes up with a morally convincing argument against people willingly ending their
non-temporary-with-respect-to-the-duration-of-a-human-life suffering.

 

[The Burning Fool]

Idk why pro-lifers want people to survive at all costs, but they do. They'd rather us be here suffering and slaving away under the capitalist machine than let us have the freedom to check out.

Pro-life is more like pro-suffering and pro-slavery. The happy few need the miserable many for the hierarchy to function.

 

[lwlaiet8887]

It's just a platitude like most pro-life talking points.

 

[sserafim]

Pro-life is more like pro-suffering and pro-slavery. The happy few need the miserable many for the hierarchy to function.

Yes that's true. I hate the fact that our society is hierarchical and power (and wealth) is concentrated in the hands of so few, and the ones at the top get rich off of the labor and exploitation of the poor/masses.

I will literally ctb because I don't want to be a part of this capitalist wage slavery system. Fuck capitalism it's modern day slavery and I refuse to buy into this pyramid scheme

 

[suicidepanda]

I've read this a thousand times and I've never understood how such a stupid argument can be made. I have a temporary problem, let's say my earphones are broken. I find a permanent solution, I get a pair of unbreakable earphones. The solution being permanent is generally a good thing, isn't it? How does this saying make any sense from a pro-life standpoint? I've always seen it as an argument for ctb.

Its a stupid phrase. Like, yeah, I want my solution to be permanent so I never have this temporary problem again.

 

[The Burning Fool]

Yes that's true. I hate the fact that our society is hierarchical and power (and wealth) is concentrated in the hands of so few.

I will literally ctb because I don't want to be a part of this capitalist wage slavery system. Fuck capitalism it's modern day slavery and I refuse to buy into this pyramid scheme

Religion is also a big part of why I will ctb. Like people believing that women should shut the fuck up and Jews should die because some black dude flew on a donkey some millennia ago is beyond crazy. All that while not giving an F about the human race ruining the entire ecosphere for the newest generation.

 

[Old Friend]

Well it is a permanent solution. There's no going back. That's why you need to weigh it up properly. Is your problem temporary? Is it fixible? You should consider those two questions and factor your findings into any decision you make. Suicide is not a decision one should take lightly.

 

[The Burning Fool]

Well it is a permanent solution. There's no going back. That's why you need to weigh it up properly. Is your problem temporary? Is it fixible? You should consider those two questions and factor your findings into any decision you make. Suicide is not a decision one should take lightly.

Why though? A permanent solution is superior to a temporary one even if my problem is temporary. Not ctb only makes sense to me if I care about not ruining some other people's lives which is the reason I'm delaying it.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

I certainly prefer my solutions to last.

Suicide doesn't solve anything anyways. Eliminating problems isn't tantamount to solving them.

 

[sserafim]

Its a stupid phrase. Like, yeah, I want my solution to be permanent so I never have this temporary problem again.

Same! And the issue is that my problems aren't even temporary, they're permanent

Yeah I guess so but I guess pro-lifers have blind faith and optimism that things would've improved and your situation would've gotten better. Also most people are scared of the idea of death and dying so they don't want you to die because they'll have to confront their own mortality and the fact that they'll die someday as well.

Idk why pro-lifers want people to survive at all costs, but they do. They'd rather us be here suffering and slaving away under the capitalist machine than let us have the freedom to check out.

Ikr, I hate how they're not understanding of people with terminal mental illnesses. I wish the world was more understanding of neurodivergence and mental illness. However I guess that just because mental illness doesn't manifest physically makes people think it's invisible and doesn't exist, and that it's "all in your head" and you have to "change your mindset"

Oh also, they'll have to confront the fact that nothing in life is permanent, and that things can change in an instant. Someone can be here one day and gone the next. Pro-lifers don't want to confront the fact that things are always changing, and the impermanence of everything. They don't want to confront the fact that life is impermanent as well, and that nothing lasts forever. They don't want to think about the fact that even they will die one day. I guess pro-lifers are terrified of death and the unknown.

Most pro-lifers just have the problem of not understanding that other people are unhappy and suffering. They think that just because they're happy, everyone else should be. They can't understand the fact that some people are suffering and not happy with their lives. I guess prolifers have an empathy problem, they can't put themselves in someone else's shoes and understand the depth of their suffering

 

[The Burning Fool]

Eliminating problems isn't tantamount to solving them.

Wrong.

I am thirsty -> I drink water -> I am not thirsty anymore

I eliminated the problem through the solution and thereby solved it.

 

[denix66]

Lo dicen personas que no entienden de depresión o tendencias suicidas. Se niegan a comprender que las enfermedades emocionales y mentales pueden ser permanentes o que pueden ser lo suficientemente dolorosas como para querer una solución permanente. No todas las personas que se suicidan estaban deprimidas, a veces son personas en crisis. Este dicho está destinado a ellos. Pero en general, es muy ignorante decirlo cuando se trata de depresión.

No...... Hay muchas personas mayores que quieren una muerte pacífica no por depresión u otras historias..... Simplemente saben con certeza el futuro que les espera..... Y deciden ctb en una manera meditada y evaluada durante mucho tiempo..... Es una decisión que nadie debería legislar para una persona de 70 años.... Quien no es nadie para decidir sobre la propiedad de mi cuerpo físico. ..... Hace años regenté un bar...... Y un cliente de unos 70/72 años.... Muy simpático y con mucha experiencia en varios campos... Una persona inteligente en mi opinión... Un día mientras le servía café (era un cliente habitual de mi bar).... Me dijo que había decidido dejar de vivir.... Bueno, él preferiría esto. opción.... ya que sabía perfectamente lo que le esperaba. ... Apestosos asilos de ancianos gestionados por Fondos Buitre... Etc, etc... A la mañana siguiente cuando fui a abrir el bar... me enteré de la noticia. ..... Simplemente se había colgado con una cuerda en la valla del parque de enfrente......

 

[sserafim]

Wrong.

I am thirsty -> I drink water -> I am not thirsty anymore

I eliminated the problem through the solution and thereby solved it.

Yeah true, eliminating the problem can count as solving it.

 

[Old Friend]

Why though? A permanent solution is superior to a temporary one even if my problem is temporary. Not ctb only makes sense to me if I care about not ruining some other people's lives which is the reason I'm delaying it.

Well you're mind is pretty made up then and not likely to change, which is fine. I'm probably done too at this point but suicide is a big decision and there's no going back. That is all I'm saying.

 

[The Burning Fool]

I guess prolifers have an empathy problem, they can't put themselves in someone else's shoes and understand the depth of their suffering

Sometimes I wonder if I have a stronger sense of empathy only because I've suffered so much. That's most likely the reason. I also wonder if all pro-life people could live long enough, would all of them get fed up with it at some point? Like over billions of years. I think all of them would like to be dead sometime, no matter what they say now from their point of ignorance.

Well you're mind is pretty made up then and not likely to change, which is fine. I'm probably done too at this point but suicide is a big decision and there's no going back. That is all I'm saying.

If there were any going back I wouldn't even want to ctb... Imagine a world where you could just save your progress and go back anytime. Have the best few minutes of your life and relive it forever. You'd never get bored of it because you'd be in it, and in it you weren't bored.

Yeah true, eliminating the problem can count as solving it.

It's the very definition if you ask me.

 

[Lookoutbelow]

I like to think of it as a permanent solution to a temporal problem.

 

[The Burning Fool]

I like to think of it as a permanent solution to a temporal problem.

Same, brings me comfort.

 

[sserafim]

It's the very definition if you ask me.

And sometimes when the problem can't be solved, eliminating it is the only option (like in my case)