A Conversation about Mental Health

[sufferingalways]

In our society, I believe there needs to be more conversation about mental health. It is obvious that our current mental health system fails everyone it touches and it shows. Those with mental illness or problems are often looked down upon, treated as outcasts, or even excluded from society entirely. Not only that, but the current "solutions" are obviously not working. Therapy is a joke in general, although it does help some. Psychiatrists only seek to medicate you so you can "feel" better. None of these things is treating the underlying problems, only the symptoms. Modern medicine is set up only to treat the symptoms, not address the underlying problems. This is what I believe is the crux of the problem: Too many medical professionals just simply don't care about the people that they treat, in my opinion. You can't talk about these problems with close friends or family, or you'll be labelled "crazy" and treated poorly for it. There is a stigma associated with talking about mental illness in general and even more of a stigma associated with talking about suicide. This community exists to let people talk about these things judgement-free and anonymously.

I want to open up a wider conversation about how we can improve the failed mental health system because the current approach isn't working.

What do you think could be done?

Forego things that call themselves regulators such as "Ombudsman " because from reviews and conversations there is overwhelming bias. Many working in ombudsman offices are in league with the various departments their business claims to "regulate."

Get rid of the rogue regulators who do no such thing (easier said than done) and have some independent body or new business (there are new campaign groups springing up) hold the dishonest, abusive, in denial narcissistic "professionals" to account.
For this to be possible with individual cases this would depend on complainants having paperwork for their complaints not just phone calls.

Quickest way to get shot down or invalidated is if the ones who you have complaint about can easily dismiss you with "no evidence" rebuttal.
This applies to various sectors but for this discussion the first step is essential that people put their grievances in writing.

I've always done this, social landlords, NHS, (pick any bureaucratic service ..) lie so much it teaches you to do it and I *hope* one of my grievances can go to court for resolution. That's if I ever find a lawyer for this category.

Always persist, never argue minutiae if they deviate, and always let anger subside before replying. Abusers are everywhere.

I agree completely, as a community we should rally against the institutions that keep this practice in place. Let's pick one nation and start campaigning IMO. I recently located the chief psychiatrist in my country and am going to try and make a compelling case to them that this system does more harm then good.

What type of person would you be dealing with?
Eg, Are they closed to emotional appeal? If so and some at the top have seemed colder than ice .. my chief executive experience anyway, you'll need a different perspective to gain their interest. Who here has sales experience? Use the AIDA model ?
First gain their Attention then Interest .. Desire .. Action.

 

[Meretlein]

I agree completely, as a community we should rally against the institutions that keep this practice in place. Let's pick one nation and start campaigning IMO. I recently located the chief psychiatrist in my country and am going to try and make a compelling case to them that this system does more harm then good.

One thing to remember about psychiatrists and all medical professionals who participate in involuntary commitment, is that criticizing involuntary commitment is an indictment on their profession and character. The medical profession would be force to knowledge the trauma they have inflicted and the system of fear they perpetuated in which the people they claimed to help lied to them due to fear of violence. This will make them extremely resistant to changing their view, more so than regular people.

As a side note, I truly hate the term "involuntary" commitment. It is euphemistic language to assuage the guilt of medical professionals. The word "involuntary" hints at something passively happening against a person's wishes, such as involuntary celibacy. No one is violently tying the person down and forcing them to remain celibate, people are are simply rejecting them. The word "involuntary" is also used to describe something one has no conscious over such as involuntary muscle movements. It is not used to describe consciously choosing to force another human being to do something against their will. The more accurate word is "force" and if we are speaking of forcibly taking someone away and confining them then the word "kidnapping" is most accurate.

 

[sufferingalways]

One thing to remember about psychiatrists and all medical professionals who participate in involuntary commitment, is that criticizing involuntary commitment is an indictment on their profession and character. The medical profession would be force to knowledge the trauma they have inflicted and the system of fear they perpetuated in which the people they claimed to help lied to them due to fear of violence. This will make them extremely resistant to changing their view, more so than regular people.

As a side note, I truly hate the term "involuntary" commitment. It is euphemistic language to assuage the guilt of medical professionals. The word "involuntary" hints at something passively happening against a person's wishes, such as involuntary celibacy. No one is violently tying the person down and forcing them to remain celibate, people are are simply rejecting them. The word "involuntary" is also used to describe something one has no conscious over such as involuntary muscle movements. It is not used to describe consciously choosing to force another human being to do something against their will. The more accurate word is "force" and if we are speaking of forcibly taking someone away and confining them then the word "kidnapping" is most accurate.

Holy f.. smokes .. I have been sectioned before (not related to any suicide attempt) but your post hits a few home truths. gladly so.

Taking your view into consideration regards the indictment part, how would you approach the subject with a view to a change? As we are aware the secrecy and bureaucracy are hard to penetrate let alone change so what are your ideas for where to begin?

 

[tlsnih]

I'm going to respond to this post properly later but, before I forget, @Marquis can I please suggest the addition of a 'Mental Health' forum alongside the 'Suicide Discussion', 'Recovery' and 'Offtopic' ones currently in place?

EDIT: or perhaps it could be 'Mental Illness and Health' – just a place to discuss various mental illnesses, treatments, personal experiences with them etc. without it being contextualised as being related to either suicide/recovery

I've made a suggestion thread for this – please go and upvote if you agree

 

[torimandy]

The problem with therapy as I see it, is that it's geared to do nothing but attempt to make people accept their shitty existence is all the better it's ever going to get. They don't really listen to the physical, emotional or financial needs of anyone they see because they have no tools to fix any of those issues. I think more social programs need to be available that allow people to get a stronger education that will lead to human connections in a new workplace that fosters success and creative aspects of a person instead of mindless repetitive tasks. Then require every layer to give 30% of their total hours as non billable pro bono hours to work with people who have been wronged by others and the system and also help make their lives better.

Social workers get into their job with and idea they are going to help and make a difference. Within a year they find they can barley help those in severe need and for the most part spend the majority of their time telling people there is nothing they can do. They hate their jobs and become very bitter and rude and soon stop even trying and just tell people no they can't help.

There are many things that could be done, but the powers that be think it's better for people like the Waltons, Bezos and Musk to be able to ammass more money than they could possibly spent in 100 lifetimes while the only cure for those without massive wealth is to teach them that acceptance of their station in life is all they deserve or will get so take a pill to numb it out and get fat and learn how to roll in shit with a smile on your face telling everyone how great it all is.

 

[Meretlein]

Holy f.. smokes .. I have been sectioned before (not related to any suicide attempt) but your post hits a few home truths. gladly so.

Taking your view into consideration regards the indictment part, how would you approach the subject with a view to a change? As we are aware the secrecy and bureaucracy are hard to penetrate let alone change so what are your ideas for where to begin?

Getting rid of forced psychiatry in the context of suicide will be difficult as the desire to live is deeply programmed into all living beings and manifests itself in our beliefs, actions, and psychology. However I think there are some things we could do that will at least make people reluctant to get their hands dirty and participate in forced psychiatry.

Medical professionals should made more aware of the trauma that forced psychiatry causes, they also need to be made aware of the fact that people will not be straightforward with someone who can and will forcible confine them. In addition to this we need to stop sanitizing the language used in the context of forced psychiatry. The medical profession needs to face what they do to suicidal people instead of hiding behind euphemisms. This will force them to evaluated whether it is worth sacrificing many people to trauma and abuse on the chance that a few of them will be grateful for the intervention. The choice between the having the trust of their patients and having the power to forcibly detain their patients needs to be made clear.

 

[torimandy]

Getting rid of forced psychiatry in the context of suicide will be difficult as the desire to live is deeply programmed into all living beings and manifests itself in our beliefs, actions, and psychology. However I think there are some things we could do that will at least make people reluctant to get their hands dirty and participate in forced psychiatry.

Medical professionals should made more aware of the trauma that forced psychiatry causes, they also need to be made aware of the fact that people will not be straightforward with someone who can and will forcible confine them. In addition to this we need to stop sanitizing the language used in the context of forced psychiatry. The medical profession needs to face what they do to suicidal people instead of hiding behind euphemisms. This will force them to evaluated whether it is worth sacrificing many people to trauma and abuse on the chance that a few of them will be grateful for the intervention. The choice between the having the trust of their patients and having the power to forcibly detain their patients needs to be made clear.

The trauma created is by design and is used as a warning that suicidal behavior will be rewarded with incarceration. They know this and use it as a tool. They don't care as nobody cares.

 

[MrAsclepius]

The "mental health" institutes that are regulated will never change. We are seen as delusional or unable to make proper choices due to our "illness", so its not like we could bring about change. Imagine if a suicidal protest happened...the media would'nt bat an eye, other to say "poor sick minded people.." . And once again, we are the only audience that people can legally deal heavy and addictive drugs to. So, yea.

 

[Life_and_Death]

as someone with anxiety i also think that signs/maps would be helpful. i find one of the biggest things is the unknown. i dont know where im going. i dont know how to handle this. can be 2 of the biggest triggers and clear signs or directions would be nice.

a good example is calling in to have my booze delivered. i get hubby to do it because i panic. if they would answer with something a little more explanatory that would be nice, like "what are you looking for" or something. (this ones a little more difficult because its a taxi delivery company so one could be calling about anything)

 

[wordsonscreen]

Great ideas here already. I will just add that a framework of liberation psychology (look it up) is needed. We need to treat people as points in a system and not stand alone islands that develop illness without any precursors. Systems need to change- changing individual biologies is not enough.
And 2, more collaboration between mental health workers and the government. States need to respond better and change systems to respond to mental health issues instead of just pushing drugs.
3- stronger destigmatization efforts. Not just for community but especially for MH workers and primary care docs.
4- low cost or free accessible medical care
5- decriminalizing suicide
6- reduced censorship ffs- it clearly does more harm than good
7- every country having some form of euthanasia
8- more access to resources such as SS

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

Any serious approach with the mass surveillance "always online and being watched whether you like it or not" is going to be hard to implement. You can't opt out of social media because there are always doofuses all over the place recording everything. So imagine you try to talk about it seriously with a boss or friend and they record you and get you fired.
It's a great excuse to fire someone

 

[CyanideSoup]

I haven't read the full thread yet, so this has probably all be said. Just my view.

Most mental health services are designed to focus on the here and now, getting people through the system as quickly as possible. Somebody comes in showing signs of depression so they shove some pills in their hand and send them on their way. It may work in the short term but it doesn't deal with the underlying issues. The services just aren't cut out for more severe or longterm mental illnesses. In countries with free healthcare there just isn't enough funding and the staff are underpaid. So people who need the help are left with little to no support, and often from people who are spread so thinly between their patients that they don't care about you or their job. And the countries without free healthcare, having to pay for longterm treatment and medications just isn't financially possible for most, and even if it is, the service quality isn't much better.

Those with severe/longterm mental illness are often pushed from one person to another, asked the same questions over and over again, put on some new pills and shoved on never ending waiting lists for support that is needed now, not in 3 years time. There also seems to be a stigma that when you've been in the mental health system for a long time with no improvement then you must be doing it all for attention. When in reality you just haven't recieved suitable treatment.

In all honesty I don't know how you would fix a system like this without throwing it out and starting over. All mental health services should be well funded, affordable and accessible. Mental health issues can effect everyone and your payslip shouldnt determine whether you get help for that.

Suicide also needs to be more openly talked about. I think that therapists should make it clear that a discussion about suicide isn't going to get you thrown in a psych ward. Alot of people bottle up these feelings because they're terrified about being locked away, and one day it all gets too much and that's exactly what happens. In reality if we could talk openly about our feelings around suicide without the fear of involuntary admission, it would be alot easier to get early intervention and there would be less psychward admissions over all. When incidents do happen, a mentally ill person shouldn't feel like they are being punished. Being suicidal is often a symptom, it's not a choice to feel this way. You wouldn't make somebody with a broken leg feel guilty because they're in pain. We are no different.

Crisis staff need proper training on how to deal with vulnerable people. They like to guilt trip you into staying safe instead of giving you resources to manage. Telling us all the reasons why we have 'so much to live for' only makes us feel worse. Yes I know I have people who love me, but it doesn't take away from my suicidal feelings. That guilt may be effective for a few days, but it fixes nothing and the cycle starts over. It's a neverending loop.

Preventative care for children and adults should also be put in place. You shouldn't have to tick a thousand boxes before you're declared officially unwell enough to receive help. It should be offered to those who ask for it in the early stages before it reaches that point. I came into the mental health system as a child and I've watched as my younger siblings are going through the same process. It's only gotten worse. The feelings of the child are never taken into account. It's all based off of teachers and doctors opinions, and sometimes parents, but only if they're in agreement with those teachers or doctors. Signs of severe illnesses can be slapping them in the face and they won't offer treatment because you don't officially tick enough boxes. It's a messed up system that only ever steps in when it's too late.

I could write my opinions and ideas for days but the likelihood is that nothing will change because the system is corrupt and nobody truly cares about mental illness. Out of site out of mind.

 

[torimandy]

I haven't read the full thread yet, so this has probably all be said. Just my view.

Most mental health services are designed to focus on the here and now, getting people through the system as quickly as possible. Somebody comes in showing signs of depression so they shove some pills in their hand and send them on their way. It may work in the short term but it doesn't deal with the underlying issues. The services just aren't cut out for more severe or longterm mental illnesses. In countries with free healthcare there just isn't enough funding and the staff are underpaid. So people who need the help are left with little to no support, and often from people who are spread so thinly between their patients that they don't care about you or their job. And the countries without free healthcare, having to pay for longterm treatment and medications just isn't financially possible for most, and even if it is, the service quality isn't much better.

Those with severe/longterm mental illness are often pushed from one person to another, asked the same questions over and over again, put on some new pills and shoved on never ending waiting lists for support that is needed now, not in 3 years time. There also seems to be a stigma that when you've been in the mental health system for a long time with no improvement then you must be doing it all for attention. When in reality you just haven't recieved suitable treatment.

In all honesty I don't know how you would fix a system like this without throwing it out and starting over. All mental health services should be well funded, affordable and accessible. Mental health issues can effect everyone and your payslip shouldnt determine whether you get help for that.

Suicide also needs to be more openly talked about. I think that therapists should make it clear that a discussion about suicide isn't going to get you thrown in a psych ward. Alot of people bottle up these feelings because they're terrified about being locked away, and one day it all gets too much and that's exactly what happens. In reality if we could talk openly about our feelings around suicide without the fear of involuntary admission, it would be alot easier to get early intervention and there would be less psychward admissions over all. When incidents do happen, a mentally ill person shouldn't feel like they are being punished. Being suicidal is often a symptom, it's not a choice to feel this way. You wouldn't make somebody with a broken leg feel guilty because they're in pain. We are no different.

Crisis staff need proper training on how to deal with vulnerable people. They like to guilt trip you into staying safe instead of giving you resources to manage. Telling us all the reasons why we have 'so much to live for' only makes us feel worse. Yes I know I have people who love me, but it doesn't take away from my suicidal feelings. That guilt may be effective for a few days, but it fixes nothing and the cycle starts over. It's a neverending loop.

Preventative care for children and adults should also be put in place. You shouldn't have to tick a thousand boxes before you're declared officially unwell enough to receive help. It should be offered to those who ask for it in the early stages before it reaches that point. I came into the mental health system as a child and I've watched as my younger siblings are going through the same process. It's only gotten worse. The feelings of the child are never taken into account. It's all based off of teachers and doctors opinions, and sometimes parents, but only if they're in agreement with those teachers or doctors. Signs of severe illnesses can be slapping them in the face and they won't offer treatment because you don't officially tick enough boxes. It's a messed up system that only ever steps in when it's too late.

I could write my opinions and ideas for days but the likelihood is that nothing will change because the system is corrupt and nobody truly cares about mental illness. Out of site out of mind.

The question theyh never ask or care about is,"What, exactly would it take to make you no longer feel suicidal". They don't care and will do nothing to actually address this.

 

[sufferingalways]

The "mental health" institutes that are regulated will never change. We are seen as delusional or unable to make proper choices due to our "illness", so its not like we could bring about change. Imagine if a suicidal protest happened...the media would'nt bat an eye, other to say "poor sick minded people.." . And once again, we are the only audience that people can legally deal heavy and addictive drugs to. So, yea.

I have ideas from what you said here. I have made a short film about mental health and from how people in this region are treated both relating to suicidal issues and otherwise, there needs to be some wake up calls to any organisation that abuses their power. I would like to (when I'm well..) put together either a film or podcast about this type of issue and let people share it far and wide. Maybe discussion in this way would be a neutral place to start?

 

[wordsonscreen]

I have ideas from what you said here. I have made a short film about mental health and from how people in this region are treated both relating to suicidal issues and otherwise, there needs to be some wake up calls to any organisation that abuses their power. I would like to (when I'm well..) put together either a film or podcast about this type of issue and let people share it far and wide. Maybe discussion in this way would be a neutral place to start?

Tell me more! I am interested! How can I help?

 

[sufferingalways]

I haven't read the full thread yet, so this has probably all be said. Just my view.

Most mental health services are designed to focus on the here and now, getting people through the system as quickly as possible. Somebody comes in showing signs of depression so they shove some pills in their hand and send them on their way. It may work in the short term but it doesn't deal with the underlying issues. The services just aren't cut out for more severe or longterm mental illnesses. In countries with free healthcare there just isn't enough funding and the staff are underpaid. So people who need the help are left with little to no support, and often from people who are spread so thinly between their patients that they don't care about you or their job. And the countries without free healthcare, having to pay for longterm treatment and medications just isn't financially possible for most, and even if it is, the service quality isn't much better.

Those with severe/longterm mental illness are often pushed from one person to another, asked the same questions over and over again, put on some new pills and shoved on never ending waiting lists for support that is needed now, not in 3 years time. There also seems to be a stigma that when you've been in the mental health system for a long time with no improvement then you must be doing it all for attention. When in reality you just haven't recieved suitable treatment.

In all honesty I don't know how you would fix a system like this without throwing it out and starting over. All mental health services should be well funded, affordable and accessible. Mental health issues can effect everyone and your payslip shouldnt determine whether you get help for that.

Suicide also needs to be more openly talked about. I think that therapists should make it clear that a discussion about suicide isn't going to get you thrown in a psych ward. Alot of people bottle up these feelings because they're terrified about being locked away, and one day it all gets too much and that's exactly what happens. In reality if we could talk openly about our feelings around suicide without the fear of involuntary admission, it would be alot easier to get early intervention and there would be less psychward admissions over all. When incidents do happen, a mentally ill person shouldn't feel like they are being punished. Being suicidal is often a symptom, it's not a choice to feel this way. You wouldn't make somebody with a broken leg feel guilty because they're in pain. We are no different.

Crisis staff need proper training on how to deal with vulnerable people. They like to guilt trip you into staying safe instead of giving you resources to manage. Telling us all the reasons why we have 'so much to live for' only makes us feel worse. Yes I know I have people who love me, but it doesn't take away from my suicidal feelings. That guilt may be effective for a few days, but it fixes nothing and the cycle starts over. It's a neverending loop.

Preventative care for children and adults should also be put in place. You shouldn't have to tick a thousand boxes before you're declared officially unwell enough to receive help. It should be offered to those who ask for it in the early stages before it reaches that point. I came into the mental health system as a child and I've watched as my younger siblings are going through the same process. It's only gotten worse. The feelings of the child are never taken into account. It's all based off of teachers and doctors opinions, and sometimes parents, but only if they're in agreement with those teachers or doctors. Signs of severe illnesses can be slapping them in the face and they won't offer treatment because you don't officially tick enough boxes. It's a messed up system that only ever steps in when it's too late.

I could write my opinions and ideas for days but the likelihood is that nothing will change because the system is corrupt and nobody truly cares about mental illness. Out of site out of mind.

So much that I agree with that I could be here for ages but for now I'll quote one part that's ringing true for me too;

"Crisis staff need proper training on how to deal with vulnerable people.
They like to guilt trip you into staying safe instead of giving you resources to manage.
HELL YES

Telling us all the reasons why we have 'so much to live for' only makes us feel worse. Yes I know I have people who love me, but it doesn't take away from my suicidal feelings. That guilt may be effective for a few days, but it fixes nothing and the cycle starts over. It's a neverending loop."

 

[wordsonscreen]

So much that I agree with that I could be here for ages but for now I'll quote one part that's ringing true for me too;

"Crisis staff need proper training on how to deal with vulnerable people.
They like to guilt trip you into staying safe instead of giving you resources to manage.
HELL YES

Telling us all the reasons why we have 'so much to live for' only makes us feel worse. Yes I know I have people who love me, but it doesn't take away from my suicidal feelings. That guilt may be effective for a few days, but it fixes nothing and the cycle starts over. It's a neverending loop."

Guilting someone to stay..... smells of abuse, no? :p

 

[sufferingalways]

Tell me more! I am interested! How can I help?

I have written a script and made it into film (I'm a writer) and this is a seed of idea at this stage for another project.

When I get a lawyer to help me with landlord housing problem I'll be in a position to plan it properly. Sleep isn't easy to achieve right now but I will share bit more later for anyone interested in (anonymous) involvement.

 

[wordsonscreen]

I have written a script and made it into film (I'm a writer) and this is a seed of idea at this stage for another project.

When I get a lawyer to help me with landlord housing problem I'll be in a position to plan it properly. Sleep isn't easy to achieve right now but I will share bit more later for anyone interested in (anonymous) involvement.

I'd like to be involved maybe! I'm sorry to hear about the sleep. Is there anything we can help you with on SS? Where are you located?

 

[sufferingalways]

Guilting someone to stay..... smells of abuse, no? :p

Absolutely. People have choices and their own minds, and m h professionals don't consider this. It's insulting to a persons intelligence and abusive to guilt trip them for any reason.

I'd like to be involved maybe! I'm sorry to hear about the sleep. Is there anything we can help you with on SS? Where are you located?

Thank you for kind offer but once we email the local lawyer I think it will be in hand.
Plus a neighbour today told my housemate she is also troubled by the same problem so we will ask her if she wants to sign our last letter to the council landlord chief executive.. as a last chance before the lawyer..
in case the chief is swayed by another resident's involvement.

(It can happen and if it saves us ££'s it's worth a last resort try.). Hoping! Thank you again for your kindness it's much appreciated ;-)

 

[wordsonscreen]

Absolutely. People have choices and their own minds, and m h professionals don't consider this. It's insulting to a persons intelligence and abusive to guilt trip them for any reason.

100%. It is very degrading.

Thank you for kind offer but once we email the local lawyer I think it will be in hand.
Plus a neighbour today told my housemate she is also troubled by the same problem so we will ask her if she wants to sign our last letter to the council landlord chief executive.. as a last chance before the lawyer..
in case the chief is swayed by another resident's involvement.

(It can happen and if it saves us ££'s it's worth a last resort try.). Hoping! Thank you again for your kindness it's much appreciated ;-)

This is good news! :)

 

[TStorm]

I did skim over the thread, but I'm having difficulty concentrating, so I'll go over my own thoughts, hopefully nothing too repetitive.

I started seeing a therapist when I was in elementary school. It didn't help me at all. I eventually quit, despite my mom wanting me to go back, because it felt pointless. I have my own issues with self worth but the reasons I want to die have nothing to do with that. I find very little hope in a world that has given me nothing to hope for.

I want more standard health care (I'm in the USA). I did have health care last year through work, but this year I don't. (The company who owns us changed) I find applying online for those programs extremely difficult due to my ADHD and dyslexia, which makes filling out paperwork forms hard. My anxiety makes it hard because I don't want to mess it up. Who is there to help me? No one? And no one cares!

I feel like those of us with anxiety or extreme depression have very little options anyway. I was feeling like dying, but I couldn't go to the hospital and miss work. Who would support my family? I can't get a day off from work unless I request it months in advance, and sometimes not even then. Which is a different point, but my main point is sometimes I am so exhausted but I have to keep going on. I wish there was a way to get help when I was feeling my lowest that didn't involve locking me up in a hospital. I can't afford that!

I just wish that the world could see that not everyone's brains work the same. Some people need extra help when others find said task easy. I might be flawed, but I'm still human. I want help but I can't get it without risking my family. I don't want my mom to go hungry because my brain is misbehaving.

I just spend so much time scared. Scared of messing up, of not doing things the right way. The world feels so difficult to me. I just desperately want help, but the help available isn't actually helpful to me. In a way that makes it worse, makes my anxiety and self esteem issues worse. It's like yes, I am the one human being alive who doesn't deserve to live! I should fling myself off the nearest bridge!

What I really need is a livable wage and support from the government. Is the short of it.

 

[AnnonyBox]

Society needs to prioritize empathy and compassion on a grand scale if it wants to address mental health issues. Mental illness needs to stop being shunned. Parents to be need to have some sort of preparation for parenthood, and need to be evaluated as strictly as adopting parents. Bullying needs to be addressed with some form of therapy, although what and how I don't know, for both the bully and the victim. On a whole we need to encourage people to be more altruistic, and some aspects of society need to have monetary interests completely taken out of consideration, specifically in mental and physical health, food availability, and housing.

 

[Life sucks]

I'll write later but I'll say this. Mental problems are always there, everywhere and everytime. Its not a country or era thing at all. People are just more aware about it now in developed countries and the cases are reported specially with the access to information. Animals also can suffer from mental illnesses and depression so please don't fall into this trap and justify a current human model in any country, all of them are really crap and none is really happy.

 

[Life sucks]

I'm not going to talk about the whole inherent wrongs of life here but will focus on a part of that which is practically the reason for why some mental health problems exists and why some other problems worsens.

This part that causes the most damage is humans. Most of the suffering is made or increased by other humans. Of course humans suck and I will state explicitly the whole process.

First, the main problem is how mental issues are hidden and not visible which causes people to underestimate it. But actually its not only underestimating but completely toxic way of dealing with it. Humans are bad also with visible and bodily problems but thats another story.
So the recognition of the inside of others and how they have hidden sides that might hurt them is important.

We have also the toxicity of humans toward each other. Many just think its strength or something cool to hurt each other which is wrong. Mental health problems worsens most of the time with negative interactions with other humans. Even a random word here or there from a toxic person could ruin the day or even the life of mental health sufferers. Negativity is sometimes unintended but most of the time it comes with the intent of hurt and damage in any form. Let's not underestimate the cruelty of those people and the species in general, they are capable of hurting anyone and even being the reason for the mental issues. Solving or reducing the whole thing is way bigger than this topic but preventing toxicity and offensive behavior specially the ones that tries to challenge, make joke or attack the person and their problems should be done. There is much personal attacks and toxicity specially in social media and in particular the anonymous ones like Reddit.

Unfortunately, harm is not only simple words but there are tons of other problems like bullying or any form of abuse. Stopping this should be a priority because many mental problems and traumas starts with this type of damage.

Now lets talk about the main problem. The main problem is humans herd mentality. Humans as species don't care about suffering let alone mental health problems.

Mental health problems are always there throughout the history but the difference now is the progression and understanding how humans are individuals who might suffer from any problem including mental health problems. More humans realize they are actually independent and could analyze life objectively. They are not tools or slaves for the species anymore.

The species herd mentality is based on oppression and reducing the mental awareness of oneself in order to keep reproduction and natalism, this problem isn't seperable from mental health problems. For the herd mentality, everyone is just replaceable and should reproduce, they have no value or anything. Tens of thousands of years or more of oppression and the remnants are still there today. If we look at the atrocious past of humans, its clear why we didn't hear about mental problems.

Look at the superficiality again. Because mental illnesses aren't visible, they will force or pressure the mentally ill to reproduce and increase their problems. They won't care or help. This, of course is a trap and comes with multiple traps like financial debt. Its clear that when they don't care about one's inside, they don't care about others also. If a new person came to this life and became depressed, its just another person to the herd mentality and they will try to force them into reproducing one or more depressed people.

Whats important is people are actually autonomous. Everyone has their own feelings and sexuality and lacking love and connection is one big cause of mental health problems. In order to reduce this problem, safe sex should be easier and guaranteed and people shouldn't be attacked because of their sexuality. Natalist states would oppose that even implicitly because it will reduce the reproduction that gives them new slaves for the government and the corporations. So its actually a conflict between actually helping people and the herd mentality.


This is not everything but reducing the toxicity and giving people real freedom is a big help.

 

[hatelife]

yes its a damn joke,. lets be real, there doesnt really seem to be any point to life and if there is a God out there, where he at? huh? look at the world

 

[Disappointered]

even if you find someone who brightens your day...they will just kill themselves in the near future as only suicidal people can relate to other suicidals. so there is no hope really. we don't fit into this world and society will never truly, radically alter itself to accommodate our various needs.

 

[Symbiote]

This morning I went to see what resources that the current suicidal prevention organizations are touting to people who are suicidal or survived an attempt. The belief that all suicidal persons have loads of resources like supporting family and friends as the #1 goto source for healing. #2 is seeing a therapist and medication. This is only in hindsight that the suicidal even has a support group or money/time to see a therapist. Correlating with Reddit /r/Suicidewatch posters and people in this community, we all lack a support system and our mental health system in any country is poor.

Their list of how to talk to people who are suicidal:

1. Talk to them in private
2. Listen to their story
3. Tell them you care about them
4. Ask directly if they are thinking about suicide
5. Encourage them to seek treatment or contact their doctor or therapist
6. Avoid debating the value of life, minimizing their problems or giving advice

Talking in private is great, I think that would be a good step, but not many people are equipped with the knowledge or awareness of speaking with a suicidal person without triggering a number of platitudes that the suicidal has already endured. Talking in private for this community has been great for others and has helped a lot, moreso than these suicide awareness organizations

Listening is great as well, but sadly, many people are not active listeners or practice listening skills. They're quick to interject, tune out, or at worse scoff. Normal people and even therapists do not have the skills to handle suicidal people. But others who have been in a suicidal position before would know.

Telling suicidal people you care for them is equivalent to a drunk stranger telling a hot girl that she's cute. It doesn't work, it's a platitude, it could also be used as a guilt-tripping mechanism. Personally, my red flag bullshit-o-meter goes off when someone tells me they care about me and I'm like, "dude you've only known me for one day." Doesn't mean you have to say, "naw I don't give a fuck about you, I'm just virtue signalling." I think keeping it unbiased as to not guilt trip or trigger the suicidal would work.

Asking directly if they are thinking about suicide doesn't work as intended because we all know we tend to lie about that part in order to avoid having the cops called on us immediately or sent to the hospital. With this community we know that all of us are in different timelines when it comes to suicide, but eventually we'll either recover or die. When a person asked me directly if I was gonna die, or even question whether I'm going to attempt, it feels aggressive. I just told my entire story and now you're only going to focus on if I'm going to attempt or not, and whatever story I told you has disappeared from your conscious. Yeah, never gonna tell you again because you're going to instantly forget and try to do a life intervention instead.

Encourage to seek treatment. Yes we tried, did you know there's a 4-6 month backlog of appointments to see a doctor or therapist? Did you know our mental health system in the US or EU are so overwhelmed that they outright reject us unless we have already attempted, then they would have no choice? It's also prevalent in the US that a lot of therapists are not accepting insurance anymore because of the paperwork overhead and lower payments. Better to charge 180-320 dollars USD for a 45 min session.

You can still discuss life, their problems, and giving advice in a non-platitude way. You can relate to the problem, you could actively talk about their suicide problems or what's going on in their minds. If we're more accepting and forthcoming with how we handle suicide, instead of reacting and trying to lock them up, maybe more will not commit and delay their actions. The more we talk about suicide, suicide attempts, and our thought processes, it's more helpful that way. This community provides that outlet.

 

[mr.smileysad]

I think destigmatizing suicide talk is a good start on maybe improving therapists. There were too many times where I felt unable to tell my therapist what was wrong with me because I just wanted to kill myself and refused to see any other form of reason. I also tend to get very stubborn when I'm set on something and I just feel like the only thing that can actually help me is if someone can actually meet my logic head on and tackle it instead of just trying to disarm it like so many therapists do.

There have also been too many times where they actually gave me some decent advice but I either lied about being willing to take it because I didn't want to hurt their feelings or I simply forgot after the session was over (btw sessions only being an hour long isn't always enough).

Often times, even when a therapy session goes well I can't help but feel like it only feels good in the moment while somebody is listening to me but once that's over and I have to wait days, weeks, or months until the next appointment it doesn't help improve my situation at all.

I don't know, I have so many other reasons/excuses as to why I feel like I'm therapy/treatment-proof. Anytime someone gives me some good advice I feel like I eventually use my bs logic to get around it. If only I could actually be challenged within the confines of my own logic.

One thing that has helped more than therapy though not completely is to simply see media that portrays circumstances similar to what I've lived through. No media really does it perfectly in my case though. I guess I'm just waiting for someone to create a fictional world that somehow serves more as a complete walkthrough tailored to me and how to live my own life and shoots down every possible protest I could have...

Feel free to d.m. me if you want someone to talk to

 

[Lifeiskillingme]

In our society, I believe there needs to be more conversation about mental health. It is obvious that our current mental health system fails everyone it touches and it shows. Those with mental illness or problems are often looked down upon, treated as outcasts, or even excluded from society entirely. Not only that, but the current "solutions" are obviously not working. Therapy is a joke in general, although it does help some. Psychiatrists only seek to medicate you so you can "feel" better. None of these things is treating the underlying problems, only the symptoms. Modern medicine is set up only to treat the symptoms, not address the underlying problems. This is what I believe is the crux of the problem: Too many medical professionals just simply don't care about the people that they treat, in my opinion. You can't talk about these problems with close friends or family, or you'll be labelled "crazy" and treated poorly for it. There is a stigma associated with talking about mental illness in general and even more of a stigma associated with talking about suicide. This community exists to let people talk about these things judgement-free and anonymously.

I want to open up a wider conversation about how we can improve the failed mental health system because the current approach isn't working.

What do you think could be done?

I went to the psych ward after a man assaulted me while I was sleeping... I woke up feeling him on top of me feeling like I was dying.... the psychiatrist told me it was my fault I got raped. So supportive.