Discussion A balanced view on this website

[BipolarGuy]

I make no apologies for being a rational thinker who rejects intellectual inexactitude, "fuzzy logic", and arguments based only on emotion.

I am a straight talker, and what you see is what you get.
I don't play politics or childish games.

Now I've got that out of the way, allow me to give you my balanced opinion on this site.
The reason I've decided to make this post is because I've read other recent threads about how this website has been removed from search results in Germany, how there is another site (fixthe26) that was set up to challenge this one, and I've seen posts which have concerned me.

Firstly, the positive:

There are some awesome people on here who, like me, stumbled upon this website because we are feeling hopelessly depressed.
These people have empathy and understanding that you don't usually find elsewhere: least of all on other depression chatrooms that are so heavily moderated that you literally cannot even discuss how you're feeling through fear of 'triggering' others.

So in short, a website is needed on which emotional and practical issues may be discussed in a largely uninhibited manner.


But then there's the not so good part:

As an active member on this forum, I'm not going to pretend for one second that there are not people on here who seem to encourage suicide.
And when I say encourage, please don't come back at me with the argument that other users are just providing information and are not encouraging anything, because while this may be true for the vast majority of members, I do believe that some members do in fact encourage it.

There was a guy the other day who started a thread about taking a chemical to end his life with.
He was in the process of doing this.
He was hesitant, so I made a few comments along the lines of
"If you don't want to do it, there is no shame in choosing not to".
I then had another user have a go at me, because in their view I "should not encourage them NOT to go ahead with it"!
Luckily other members could clearly see my intentions, and this user ended up making a complete fool of himself.

There have been a number of comments I've seen in various threads that make me question some of the undercurrents on this site, from a minority of members.

While the official website position may be that this is a peer to peer support forum that doesn't encourage anybody either way, we as members must act to protect ourselves from predators who will seek to take advantage of vulnerable people.

I'm obviously not blaming this website for the behaviour of these people, but as members we should not defend the website by pretending that unsavoury behaviour does not happen on occasion.

 

[dundyfundy]

You are not wrong, there are few who might more than support the person, encourage them, though it's ok to support them by addressing their fear about going ahead with the ctb.

But I don't think there should be an increased policing and moderation of comments. It's more of keeping a common sense as members, and if we see someone is strongly encouranging someone rather than just supporting their ctb decision, we should call it out as a group. WIth your example, if there are people who are talking about doubting about CTB, we can and should talk about it with the person. And it's ok to tell them not to. They might've

 

[fat feet]

I make no apologies for being a rational thinker who rejects intellectual inexactitude, "fuzzy logic", and arguments based only on emotion.

I am a straight talker, and what you see is what you get.
I don't play politics or childish games.

Now I've got that out of the way, allow me to give you my balanced opinion on this site.
The reason I've decided to make this post is because I've read other recent threads about how this website has been removed from search results in Germany, how there is another site (fixthe26) that was set up to challenge this one, and I've seen posts which have concerned me.

Firstly, the positive:

There are some awesome people on here who, like me, stumbled upon this website because we are feeling hopelessly depressed.
These people have empathy and understanding that you don't usually find elsewhere: least of all on other depression chatrooms that are so heavily moderated that you literally cannot even discuss how you're feeling through fear of 'triggering' others.

So in short, a website is needed on which emotional and practical issues may be discussed in a largely uninhibited manner.


But then there's the not so good part:

As an active member on this forum, I'm not going to pretend for one second that there are not people on here who seem to encourage suicide.
And when I say encourage, please don't come back at me with the argument that other users are just providing information and are not encouraging anything, because while this may be true for the vast majority of members, I do believe that some members do in fact encourage it.

There was a guy the other day who started a thread about taking a chemical to end his life with.
He was in the process of doing this.
He was hesitant, so I made a few comments along the lines of
"If you don't want to do it, there is no shame in choosing not to".
I then had another user have a go at me, because in their view I "should not encourage them NOT to go ahead with it"!
Luckily other members could clearly see my intentions, and this user ended up making a complete fool of himself.

There have been a number of comments I've seen in various threads that make me question some of the undercurrents on this site, from a minority of members.

While the official website position may be that this is a peer to peer support forum that doesn't encourage anybody either way, we as members must act to protect ourselves from predators who will seek to take advantage of vulnerable people.

I'm obviously not blaming this website for the behaviour of these people, but as members we should not defend the website by pretending that unsavoury behaviour does happen on occasion.

Being on line and discussing anything is going to be touchy, even more so here. I think what you did was admirable and for the most part I have seen great respect from the majority of posters. We are all trying to make it through the day if we can.
There are going to be those people. It is good we have people like you that are looking out for the other guy.

 

[Deleted member 18655]

 

[esse_est_percipi]

I sometimes want to ask people if they are sure they want to ctb, if there isn't something they haven't thought of to improve their situation, and that maybe there is still some hope for them etc, but then I check myself because I'm afraid that my comments will be perceived as being too 'pro-life', or that they might even be seen as insulting the intelligence of those who they are aimed at (I mean, do I really think that member x hasn't thought of absolutely everything to improve their situation before coming here, or that they may not really be sure of themselves? Who am I to question them or to sow any seeds of doubt?)

Ideally, I wish that everyone here could get better, improve their situation and enjoy life again and find some renewed hope and meaning.
Everything just makes me so sad.
I'm glad this site exists, but I also wish I hadn't ended up here. I'm so depressed.

 

[BipolarGuy]

View attachment 44816

Hmm, I'm not sure how to interpret that. The guy in the video looks almost as though he's being sarcastic.

Sorry if I've taken it the wrong way.

 

[Deleted member 18655]

Hmm, I'm not sure how to interpret that. The guy in the video looks almost as though he's being sarcastic.

Sorry if I've taken it the wrong way.

Argh! No! It's meant as a complement. I have a(nother) migraine and thought the picture would speak the thousand words... apparently not lol. I'm usually in the minority with where I stand on almost anything so I don't usually express my opinions. I respect what you've been posting lately.

 

[BipolarGuy]

I sometimes want to ask people if they are sure they want to ctb, if there isn't something they haven't thought of to improve their situation, and that maybe there is still some hope for them etc, but then I check myself because I'm afraid that my comments will be perceived as being too 'pro-life', or that they might even be seen as insulting the intelligence of those who they are aimed at (I mean, do I really think that member x hasn't thought of absolutely everything to improve their situation before coming here, or that they may not really be sure of themselves? Who am I to question them or to sow any seeds of doubt?)

Ideally, I wish that everyone here could get better, improve their situation and enjoy life again and find some renewed hope and meaning.
Everything just makes me so sad.
I'm glad this site exists, but I also wish I hadn't ended up here. I'm so depressed.

I do think that the meaning of "pro-life" on this site is a bit corrupted, and has been politicised.

Most people's understanding of being pro-life is that someone is against abortion (in all circumstances) and against euthanasia etc.
But I have witnessed on a small number of occasions when a member has tried talking to another member about whether they're sure that they're making the right decision, or that there is no shame in backing out if they don't want to go ahead with their plan, and as a result they have gone on to be accused of being "pro-life", "anti-choice" and even (in my case) of trying to talk someone out of a decision they have made.

I feel that things are often framed as a battle between "pro-life" and "pro-choice", and I do not feel that this is healthy or even logical.

 

[rt1989526]

Misery loves company. As someone who's given up and decided to CTB, when someone announces they've decided to keep living it makes me feel guilty as fuck. I can admit that.

I definitely try to encourage those that are on the fence to stay though. Especially young folks. My main thing here is trying to make people aware of how bad certain medications are, since they are what destroyed my life. The doctors don't make it clear enough.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

I feel that things are often framed as a battle between "pro-life" and "pro-choice", and I do not feel that this is healthy or even logical.

There even seems to be a tendency (just a tendency on occasion) to interpret 'pro choice' sentiments as pro-life ones, and then to oppose them with more of a de facto 'pro-death' stance. So, saying "If you don't want to do it, there is no shame in choosing not to", is interpreted as being pro-life (even though it's pro-choice), and any sentiment which is in exact accordance (or doesn't contradict in any conceivable way) with someone who is ctb'ing is said to be 'pro-choice', even though it is technically pro-death (which I don't have a problem with as long as there is no active encouragement or goading to do anything).

Before I heard of this site, I also only understood 'pro life' as applying to anti-abortionists, and 'pro-choice' as women's right to choose, so I've only had a short exposure to all the talk and rhetoric around pro-life/pro choice as it's specifically used here.

So from my understanding, 'pro-life' here seems to mean being opposed to suicide as a matter of ideology or principle, and not respecting an individual's basic right over their own lives to either continue existing or not according to their will. In that case, I am definitely not 'pro life'.

tl;dr : there seems to be an occasional lack of clarity/lack of consistency/ambiguity/weaponizing, in some of the terminology used here, specifically around pro-life, pro-choice

 

[BipolarGuy]

Misery loves company. As someone who's given up and decided to CTB, when someone announces they've decided to keep living it makes me feel guilty as fuck. I can admit that.

I definitely try to encourage those that are on the fence to stay though. Especially young folks. My main thing here is trying to make people aware of how bad certain medications are, since they are what destroyed my life. The doctors don't make it clear enough.

I think you're definitely right about the medication thing.
I think you already know that I was put on old style (tricyclic) anti-depressants when I was only 8/9 years old!
I don't know if being on psychoactive medication at such a young age had a lasting impact on me in any way, but even medical professionals have since told me that they would not have put me on medication while I was that young.

I also think there is the widely recognised problem of doctors handing out meds like smarties while not referring for practical psychotherapy from a trained psychiatrist or psychologist.

Just my personal experience.

 

[tidalwxves]

I make no apologies for being a rational thinker who rejects intellectual inexactitude, "fuzzy logic", and arguments based only on emotion.

I am a straight talker, and what you see is what you get.
I don't play politics or childish games.

Now I've got that out of the way, allow me to give you my balanced opinion on this site.
The reason I've decided to make this post is because I've read other recent threads about how this website has been removed from search results in Germany, how there is another site (fixthe26) that was set up to challenge this one, and I've seen posts which have concerned me.

Firstly, the positive:

There are some awesome people on here who, like me, stumbled upon this website because we are feeling hopelessly depressed.
These people have empathy and understanding that you don't usually find elsewhere: least of all on other depression chatrooms that are so heavily moderated that you literally cannot even discuss how you're feeling through fear of 'triggering' others.

So in short, a website is needed on which emotional and practical issues may be discussed in a largely uninhibited manner.


But then there's the not so good part:

As an active member on this forum, I'm not going to pretend for one second that there are not people on here who seem to encourage suicide.
And when I say encourage, please don't come back at me with the argument that other users are just providing information and are not encouraging anything, because while this may be true for the vast majority of members, I do believe that some members do in fact encourage it.

There was a guy the other day who started a thread about taking a chemical to end his life with.
He was in the process of doing this.
He was hesitant, so I made a few comments along the lines of
"If you don't want to do it, there is no shame in choosing not to".
I then had another user have a go at me, because in their view I "should not encourage them NOT to go ahead with it"!
Luckily other members could clearly see my intentions, and this user ended up making a complete fool of himself.

There have been a number of comments I've seen in various threads that make me question some of the undercurrents on this site, from a minority of members.

While the official website position may be that this is a peer to peer support forum that doesn't encourage anybody either way, we as members must act to protect ourselves from predators who will seek to take advantage of vulnerable people.

I'm obviously not blaming this website for the behaviour of these people, but as members we should not defend the website by pretending that unsavoury behaviour does not happen on occasion.

I absolutely agree, when someone is not only hesitating but is scared enough to reach out we owe it to them to remind them its not their only option. I don't like when people try to make people push through with their CTB plans, I don't feel like thats our place.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I think that pro-life with regard to abortion is the right to live. Some consider abortion to be murder.

In this context, I think that pro-life is surviving at all costs, that death is bad, and life is the supreme good. I've experienced folks who called themselves pro-life in relation to suicide, and reject all consideration of suicide as even a rational option for themselves and, most importantly, for autonomous others over whom they have no control or say. The option is considered evil.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

pro-life is surviving at all costs, that death is bad, and life is the supreme good. I've experienced folks who called themselves pro-life in relation to suicide, and reject all consideration of suicide as even a rational option for themselves and, most importantly, for autonomous others over whom they have no control or say. The option is considered evil.

That's quite extreme.
I think such folk would probably score very low on emotional intelligence tests or blade runner-style voight-kampff empathy tests.
Unless they have just been indoctrinated by religious dogmas.

Would you say that such pro-life people are invariably religious, or not necessarily?

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Would you say that such pro-life people are invariably religious, or not necessarily?

I have no way of knowing.

 

[BipolarGuy]

That's quite extreme.
I think such folk would probably score very low on emotional intelligence tests or blade runner-style voight-kampff empathy tests.
Unless they have just been indoctrinated by religious dogmas.

Would you say that such pro-life people are invariably religious, or not necessarily?

I agree.

Relatively few people have opinions that are that black and white.

Even some people who are strongly opposed to anyone suffering with any mental health condition being 'allowed' to end their lives may in fact understand why somebody suffering with a physical health condition (e.g. terminal cancer) would want to end their life.

As I said in a previous comment, I find it unhealthy and illogical how sometimes on this site situations are framed as "pro-choice" vs "pro-life", because this invariably pitches one extreme against another when in fact the vast majority of people do not hold an extreme view either way.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

As I said in a previous comment, I find it unhealthy and illogical how sometimes on this site situations are framed as "pro-choice" vs "pro-life", because this invariably pitches one extreme against another when in fact the vast majority of people do not hold an extreme view either way.

Can you describe how pro-choice is an extreme view, both in theory and in practice?

 

[BipolarGuy]

Can you describe how pro-choice is an extreme view, both in theory and in practice?

It's not that being pro-choice, or indeed pro-life, is in itself extreme, but rather if the individual holding such a view ceases to allow for any nuance in their view it can then take on an extreme perspective.

You've already described how pro-life views can be taken to the extreme:

"pro-life is surviving at all costs, that death is bad, and life is the supreme good. I've experienced folks who called themselves pro-life in relation to suicide, and reject all consideration of suicide as even a rational option for themselves and, most importantly, for autonomous others over whom they have no control or say. The option is considered evil".

Equally, a pro-choice view may be taken to the extreme if an individual believes, for instance, that any and all effort to prevent suicide is immoral!

I had a member on here say to me that if mental health problems were curable, then people wouldn't get them in the first place (obviously wrong, because you treat conditions AFTER they've been diagnosed, not before!).
This person then went on to reason that because, in his view, recovery isn't possible, any attempt to prevent suicide is essentially an attempt to prolong suffering.

Luckily, the vast majority of people have a broader perspective and have views that are based in reality.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Equally, a pro-choice view may be taken to the extreme if an individual believes, for instance, that any and all effort to prevent suicide is immoral!

Ah, the word that catches me up here is "prevent" because that automatically nullifies acceptance or awareness of choice.

To me, pro-choice includes presenting other options than suicide for the person to make an informed choice. To try to prevent their choice is a negation of their autonomy.

I think in goodbye threads, it's a really touchy time to ask of someone has considered other options -- not necessarily wrong, just touchy. But the person is also responsible for how they set the tone and for setting any boundaries they want. Some folks want to be asked then if they're sure, some make it clear they're not sure, and others make it very clear they're sure. (Personally, if I do a goodbye thread, I'll set boundaries in bold type. If someone decides to try to change my mind or question my choice anyway, after I've made clear what is or is not acceptable, then I might exit this life with a little of their skin under my nails! )

 

[TimeToBiteTheDust]

I've been for almost a year on this forum and never seen someone telling "Do it" or "Kill yourself". I haven't seen any encouragement yet.

 

[checkouttime]

Just as the person has mixed up the SN and is about to put the glass to their lips to drink it, out in the woods where they are sure they cannot be found, I consider that inappropriate.

Valid point, It will certainly make things a lot harder for some people. which n turn could cause discomfort. which is the last thing we want to be doing to someone, trying to find a peaceful way out of here.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

In a goodbye thread we are there to wish them well. That's all.

I agree in principle.
I also think that if someone is making a goodbye thread, they should specify that they don't want anyone to try to make them doubt the wisdom of their decision.
They should say something like: 'only comment to wish me well or similar sentiments, but don't comment for any other purpose'.

 

[checkouttime]

I agree in principle.
I also think that if someone is making a goodbye thread, they should specify that they don't want anyone to try to make them doubt the wisdom of their decision.
They should say something like: 'only comment to wish me well or similar sentiments, but don't comment for any other purpose'.

The problem we have, is sometimes the urge to want to help others. I personally hardly ever comment, i just don't know what to say(i might have done , but can't remember!). Its not easy to read the stuff and know what's going on. we all want to help. but maybe trying to help sometimes, isn't really helping at all.

I never really thought about it like that before, I would never wish to make someone more anxious or un-comfortable if they had made their decision. but then you can get cries for help, which in turn cause another 'problem',what do you do just ignore them people?

 

[muffin222]

I've never seen anyone encouraging anyone to commit suicide on here. I only see people trying to be objective and support other people's autonomy.

Ideally, people will exercise every alternative avenue available before they decide to ctb. But, life isn't always ideal and sometimes people use their free will to make difficult decisions that we find challenging to fathom or accept. In those times, I believe the kindest thing we can offer people on here is empathy, understanding, and validation of their pain.

For some people, that empathy and validation may be enough to make them pause and reconsider life. For others, it may not, but at least those people exit this cruel world receiving understanding and compassion from people who get it, rather than pro-life platitudes and pleas to try again when they very well may have already tried numerous times before.

If life has brought them to such a point of despair that suicide feels like a reasonable choice, I would imagine that they have considered other options at some point and have endured the pain for long enough (and what constitutes "long enough" will be different for everyone) to feel that these other options aren't worth it. If that's the case, who are we to try to save and rescue these people?

Call me naive, but I think that when people are at the point where they're on a suicide forum, researching and meticulously planning death, they no longer WANT to be saved. But, if they do, then they're free to post here to ask for help, advice, and alternate perspectives on their situation. In those cases, I'm sure many members will happily help, myself included.

But, I see no need to run around trying to save and rescue people who don't want to be saved...better to channel that energy into empathizing with and validating people's sorrow. That alone could make all the difference for someone

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

@muffin222's comment reminds me that many of the outside criticisms of this site are that when someone posts a goodbye thread, no one suggests they get help, and that we cheer them on and "it's sick."

The first criticism is cherry picking information for their narrative. It is a total omission of all the conversations that go on every single day here about how help has failed them, and for some, even abused them. Shawn Shatto's mother, for instance, argues that they were getting help for Shawn, but it failed Shawn and she didn't want to participate in it anymore. She chose to exit life, and her family doesn't accept that was her choice. But Shawn's posts about that have been deleted, so I acknowledge I may be incorrectly speaking for her.

The second criticism, that we cheer on attempts in progress, is also a manipulation of facts to suit a false narrative. Most people find comfort in the image of dying surrounded by family, being sent off from life with love, comfort and well wishes. That is provided here, and it's especially poignant when suicide is so shamed in Western culture, and has been since at least as long as the Catholic Church first started denying rites and burials in sacred ground to those who suicided. I think of how many people die in accidents, and their loved ones suffer while wondering if they suffered their last moments alone. It's in our cultural psyche, and perhaps the psyche of the social animal, to not want to die alone. On this site, people have the opportunity to ensure that when they die, they are supported, wished well, comforted, and know in their final moments they are respected and cared about. The detractors are calling this sick. They're not putting themselves in the shoes of those who die, how hard it is to act on such a choice. Instead, they deny the choice, and try to make sacrilegious such compassionate moments. They don't know how many of us grieve. I acknowledge there are people who likely watch the forum to watch these moments like a dystopian soap opera and get their jollies, which is one reason why I wish the forum were viewable only by members, because it is indeed profane. And I acknowledge that there are some members who are not compassionate, and are here for profane motives, but at least some of the negativity would be removed if we had some privacy. The resources and the wiki could be kept updated and remain public, while the rest of us could share our hearts with a modicum of privacy and emotional safety. I think there are people who get off on reading this site, and predators can easily watch for members who seem vulnerable to their style of abuse.

There is evidence that in the earlier days of the site, goodbye threads were not as they are now. There was a lot of insensitivity to the gravity of the moment. Many people cared more about the method than the person experiencing it. I'm not sure how much of this insensitivity was on Shawn's goodbye thread, nor how much compassionate support she received, if any. Because I try to view all angles critically and with as little personal bias as possible, I will say that I'm troubled that the site owners deleted her goodbye thread and most of her posts. It only makes it look as if there is something to hide or be ashamed of, and feeds the righteous flames of the detractors. It nothing was done that is wrong, then stand proud and leave the posts up. I find it just as ethically bothersome as Shawn's mother posting videos of Shawn's going sister visiting her grave. Both Shawn and her sister seem to me to be used for others' agendas. I wish Shawn's voice and the contexts in which it was spoken were returned to the forum.

I appreciate your post, @muffin222, and I hope anyone who reads this post will read it alongside yours.

 

[BipolarGuy]

I've just briefly logged in as I've had a really disturbed sleep pattern recently and I can't stay asleep :(

Will reply to some of the comments when I wake up properly.

 

[Life_and_Death]

I haven't seen anyone coming out and saying "kill yourself" but I have definitely seen less then helpful comments that would make a situation worse.

 

[nitroautnz]

The border between being supportive and pushing can be very thin

 

[BipolarGuy]

I wish I would get a better sleep.
I'm going to bed late, struggling to fall asleep despite being tired, then waking up early having only been asleep for a few hours :(

Anyway...

Ah, the word that catches me up here is "prevent" because that automatically nullifies acceptance or awareness of choice.

To me, pro-choice includes presenting other options than suicide for the person to make an informed choice. To try to prevent their choice is a negation of their autonomy.

I think in goodbye threads, it's a really touchy time to ask of someone has considered other options -- not necessarily wrong, just touchy. But the person is also responsible for how they set the tone and for setting any boundaries they want. Some folks want to be asked then if they're sure, some make it clear they're not sure, and others make it very clear they're sure. (Personally, if I do a goodbye thread, I'll set boundaries in bold type. If someone decides to try to change my mind or question my choice anyway, after I've made clear what is or is not acceptable, then I might exit this life with a little of their skin under my nails! )

You asked me to describe how a pro-choice viewpoint can be taken to the extreme, just as you had previously described how a pro-life viewpoint can be taken to the extreme (post #13).
I described this in post #18. I've quoted this below....

It's not that being pro-choice, or indeed pro-life, is in itself extreme, but rather if the individual holding such a view ceases to allow for any nuance in their view it can then take on an extreme perspective.

You've already described how pro-life views can be taken to the extreme:

"pro-life is surviving at all costs, that death is bad, and life is the supreme good. I've experienced folks who called themselves pro-life in relation to suicide, and reject all consideration of suicide as even a rational option for themselves and, most importantly, for autonomous others over whom they have no control or say. The option is considered evil".

Equally, a pro-choice view may be taken to the extreme if an individual believes, for instance, that any and all effort to prevent suicide is immoral!

I had a member on here say to me that if mental health problems were curable, then people wouldn't get them in the first place (obviously wrong, because you treat conditions AFTER they've been diagnosed, not before!).
This person then went on to reason that because, in his view, recovery isn't possible, any attempt to prevent suicide is essentially an attempt to prolong suffering.

Luckily, the vast majority of people have a broader perspective and have views that are based in reality.

I quite agree with you regarding the word "prevent", but I'm describing an extreme view, which I have seen on this website on occasion. That's what we were talking about earlier in the thread.

I've been for almost a year on this forum and never seen someone telling "Do it" or "Kill yourself". I haven't seen any encouragement yet.

Simply, encouragement doesn't have to be as blatant as telling someone to "kill themselves" outright, nor would I expect anybody to express such encouragement so overtly.
That's not how manipulation or predators typically work.
Having said that, some very unhelpful things have been said quite overtly!

Manipulators and predators do not tend to behave in such a brazen manner very often, and tend to only do so when surrounded exclusively by individuals who they feel accept them or who will not reject what they say or do.

Rather, more subtle things tend to be said or occur.
Examples discussed earlier in the thread (posts #8 and #10) include corrupting and misusing common terms to the point that these terms take on a whole new meaning, and attempting to shut down people who express a view or behave in a way that seems to go against the intention of the manipulator/predator
(for instance if a person is hesitant and you tell them "If you don't feel like doing it, there is no shame in not going ahead", then a person who seeks to encourage the act would not take kindly to this, even though this person may not come out and blatantly say "Kill yourself", see post #1).

 

[SipSop]

I make no apologies for being a rational thinker who rejects intellectual inexactitude, "fuzzy logic", and arguments based only on emotion.

I am a straight talker, and what you see is what you get.
I don't play politics or childish games.

Now I've got that out of the way, allow me to give you my balanced opinion on this site.
The reason I've decided to make this post is because I've read other recent threads about how this website has been removed from search results in Germany, how there is another site (fixthe26) that was set up to challenge this one, and I've seen posts which have concerned me.

Firstly, the positive:

There are some awesome people on here who, like me, stumbled upon this website because we are feeling hopelessly depressed.
These people have empathy and understanding that you don't usually find elsewhere: least of all on other depression chatrooms that are so heavily moderated that you literally cannot even discuss how you're feeling through fear of 'triggering' others.

So in short, a website is needed on which emotional and practical issues may be discussed in a largely uninhibited manner.


But then there's the not so good part:

As an active member on this forum, I'm not going to pretend for one second that there are not people on here who seem to encourage suicide.
And when I say encourage, please don't come back at me with the argument that other users are just providing information and are not encouraging anything, because while this may be true for the vast majority of members, I do believe that some members do in fact encourage it.

There was a guy the other day who started a thread about taking a chemical to end his life with.
He was in the process of doing this.
He was hesitant, so I made a few comments along the lines of
"If you don't want to do it, there is no shame in choosing not to".
I then had another user have a go at me, because in their view I "should not encourage them NOT to go ahead with it"!
Luckily other members could clearly see my intentions, and this user ended up making a complete fool of himself.

There have been a number of comments I've seen in various threads that make me question some of the undercurrents on this site, from a minority of members.

While the official website position may be that this is a peer to peer support forum that doesn't encourage anybody either way, we as members must act to protect ourselves from predators who will seek to take advantage of vulnerable people.

I'm obviously not blaming this website for the behaviour of these people, but as members we should not defend the website by pretending that unsavoury behaviour does not happen on occasion.

I had read your thread earlier and I kept thinking about it.
I really do not know what do youe xpect form this place.
People come here because they want to die. So what is your point?

You will not find a community who will understand you better than this one.
Most people say: if you want to die is fine, if you want to live is fine also.

So what do you actually want?
What is your point here?
People come here mainly because they want to die.
Of course there is alot of venting going on, including from myself, but this is what we feel.
People are in a suicidal state. Thinking about dying, wanting to die and preparing physically and mentally to pull the trigger.

People cannot read your mind when your moods swing. Of course they will encourage you to die when this is the purpose of this website. Wanting to escape misery ans suffering of our personal lives.
So tell me, what is your point criticising this community?