You'll probably never receive the help you want

[Ludivinicus]

This post aims to be a critique of all the advice that people try to give to individuals with suicidal ideation
You will hear the following things from people who really don't care about you:

- "Seek help"

It's very easy to tell someone to seek help, the reality is that many times that 'seek help' is said because they don't want to help you, they don't want to get involved with you in your lowest moments, they don't really care about you that much, and they want to get rid of you as soon as possible to continue with their lives and this is an easy way to get rid of you as quickly as possible and not be interested in getting involved with you.
Usually, if you confront someone and ask them why they don't want to help, they will excuse themselves with phrases like 'I'm not a psychologist' or similar. The reality is that you don't need to be a therapist to be able to help someone who is feeling down, you need to be a good person and make the effort to genuinely care and show interest in the other person
Furthermore, in most cases, no one is asking you to solve anyone's problem, just to be a real source of support.

-"You need therapy"

Why psychotherapy is an open-label placebo and open-label placebos are psychotherapy

AbstractIn recent years, placebos have undergone a rapid development from methodological chaff to therapeutic wheat. Hereby, the role of placebos as a dece

academic.oup.com

Therapy is nothing more than a placebo where a therapist tries to convince you of their own axioms that often don't even make sense. Personally, I have been through more than ten therapists in my life and you realize that all they do is try to convince you of the axioms of their own life. The 'psychotherapy' they often carry out is completely unscientific and comparable to your grandmother trying to convince you that her philosophy of life is the right one

- "Better times will come."

Just because you have convinced yourself of this nonsense doesn't mean it's real. Better times may or may not come, life doesn't provide guarantees in any case, and that's why there are people who will suffer from the moment they are born until they die. Are you going to tell a poor person living in Bangladesh that better times will come? They will likely live and die in suffering, and the only relief they will have is the ignorance of how bad their situation is.

-"You need to work on yourself"

This nonsense comes from the default bias people have to believe that the world is a fair place and that, therefore, if you work on yourself, all the good things will come to you... No, not at all. At most, it can increase your chances of something good happening to you, but there are no guarantees. The world is not a fair place, and even if you work on yourself more than anyone else, you may still die unhappy

As personal advice, each one of you knows your personal situation better than anyone else. Analyze the situation you are in, the problem you have, and the hypothetical future that may await you based on your personal context. If you find yourself in a problem that may accompany you until you die, causing you a lot of physical or psychological pain, and overall, considering your personal situation, it doesn't seem like you will have a much better future or encounter things or people that compensate for your pain... Feel free to take control of your own life

One final note, many of you who are here probably should never commit suicide because you are facing temporary problems and it is likely that in the future you will find some peace. However, that is not the case for everyone. There are people who will only find peace in death, and that is completely respectable

Stay safe and stay away from those who say phrases like the ones I mentioned

 

[darkenmydoorstep]

The last bit about temporary problems Whilst I agree, temporary can last a long time. My son is my problem, he physically abuses me but I can't leave the family unit til he is 18 and that's another 6 years. Feels like ages.

 

[donewithlife1]

This post aims to be a critique of all the advice that people try to give to individuals with suicidal ideation
You will hear the following things from people who really don't care about you:

- "Seek help"

It's very easy to tell someone to seek help, the reality is that many times that 'seek help' is said because they don't want to help you, they don't want to get involved with you in your lowest moments, they don't really care about you that much, and they want to get rid of you as soon as possible to continue with their lives and this is an easy way to get rid of you as quickly as possible and not be interested in getting involved with you.
Usually, if you confront someone and ask them why they don't want to help, they will excuse themselves with phrases like 'I'm not a psychologist' or similar. The reality is that you don't need to be a therapist to be able to help someone who is feeling down, you need to be a good person and make the effort to genuinely care and show interest in the other person
Furthermore, in most cases, no one is asking you to solve anyone's problem, just to be a real source of support.

-"You need therapy"

Why psychotherapy is an open-label placebo and open-label placebos are psychotherapy

AbstractIn recent years, placebos have undergone a rapid development from methodological chaff to therapeutic wheat. Hereby, the role of placebos as a dece

academic.oup.com

Therapy is nothing more than a placebo where a therapist tries to convince you of their own axioms that often don't even make sense. Personally, I have been through more than ten therapists in my life and you realize that all they do is try to convince you of the axioms of their own life. The 'psychotherapy' they often carry out is completely unscientific and comparable to your grandmother trying to convince you that her philosophy of life is the right one

- "Better times will come."

Just because you have convinced yourself of this nonsense doesn't mean it's real. Better times may or may not come, life doesn't provide guarantees in any case, and that's why there are people who will suffer from the moment they are born until they die. Are you going to tell a poor person living in Bangladesh that better times will come? They will likely live and die in suffering, and the only relief they will have is the ignorance of how bad their situation is.

-"You need to work on yourself"

This nonsense comes from the default bias people have to believe that the world is a fair place and that, therefore, if you work on yourself, all the good things will come to you... No, not at all. At most, it can increase your chances of something good happening to you, but there are no guarantees. The world is not a fair place, and even if you work on yourself more than anyone else, you may still die unhappy

As personal advice, each one of you knows your personal situation better than anyone else. Analyze the situation you are in, the problem you have, and the hypothetical future that may await you based on your personal context. If you find yourself in a problem that may accompany you until you die, causing you a lot of physical or psychological pain, and overall, considering your personal situation, it doesn't seem like you will have a much better future or encounter things or people that compensate for your pain... Feel free to take control of your own life

One final note, many of you who are here probably should never commit suicide because you are facing temporary problems and it is likely that in the future you will find some peace. However, that is not the case for everyone. There are people who will only find peace in death, and that is completely respectable

Stay safe and stay away from those who say phrases like the ones I mentioned

How this makes up your statement "people who don't care about you" I think people care when they don't want you to die!? And yes some problems are temporary nothing is wrong not so ever with all the given advises.. in the end if you want to kill yourself, you will regardless. And I think some people don't want to die they just motivate others to do so for some psychotic reasons

 

[Rher]

I completely agree with you on what you have said. I have lived the entirety of my life believing people are just inherently selfish; many individuals are caught up in their own life which is only natural. What you have said of the reality on seeking professional help is completely true however. I can say the same about myself I were to speak the truth, but the selfishness gives me a reason to thrive and to move forward in a sense without a sense of wrongdoing; something like embracing the reality of humanity. I myself will probably commit suicide in the next decade, I am simply holding onto life because I want to die without regrets, but its kinda too late for that; a mostly perfect suicide in other words. I have always had trouble trusting other people. Almost every day of my life, I am constantly wondering on how genuine others really are. I question to myself whether this person truly means what they say because actions do speak louder than words in some scenarios. Most people only really care about themselves and the people around them, its hard to love someone they hardly know from across the globe and especially with how society and others demoralize a person and can slowly turn them insane. However, I do think whether seeking help or not differs on the person and whether it helps them or not, I can for sure say that seeking help from therapist and hotlines aren't the best source compared to someone you trust and love, especially if its from someone after your money and is deceiving you. Regardless, we have no choice to deal with the lies and fallacies of others and we can only watch as others do these hurtful things. I hope you are feeling better and have found someone you can talk to.

 

[Ludivinicus]

The last bit about temporary problems Whilst I agree, temporary can last a long time. My son is my problem, he physically abuses me but I can't leave the family unit til he is 18 and that's another 6 years. Feels like ages.

If this is the case and there are no other alternatives, I would recommend consulting with a lawyer on how to get rid of him since adolescence will probably be much worse

 

[Forever Sleep]

One final note, many of you who are here probably should never commit suicide because you are facing temporary problems and it is likely that in the future you will find some peace. However, that is not the case for everyone. There are people who will only find peace in death, and that is completely respectable

I agreed with so many points in your thread but- this one stands alone more as a typical pro-life sentiment- the whole: 'Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem'. I'm not saying it's not the case in some situations- probably. But- how is that person or outsiders to ascertain this? Obviously not by going to a therapist or seeking help. We've just established that's a load of crap.

I'm not refuting it by the way. I think quite often, people get nervous when youngsters in particular want to kill themselves over a break up or- they failed an exam. The first time we encounter problems in life can feel like the end of the world. Like our whole future is now ruined. Still- who are any of us to say it isn't? What if that person feels sure they won't be able to get a job? They have no apptitude to study. No desire even to work in the first place? I'm not saying they should kill themselves. I'm just saying- I can understand why they might want to.

I really doubt that many people become suicidal over a minor problem in life. I doubt many just wake up one day with it. I think it more likely that this feeling has been building up and it's the minor problem that becomes the straw that breaks the camels back.

I'm just very wary of it as a statement because- it's usually imposed by pro-lifers on us. Under any circumstances too. How do they know how long that person has been struggling? Plus- it's not up to them to decide. It's actually the same as the whole: 'Things will get better.' How do you know that person's problem is temporary? What if the underlying reason they have the problem carries on? What if it can't be fixed? Or- the 'fix' isn't a good enough solution for that person? If they do manage to overcome it- will it then be rainbows there on out? You don't know. No one does. That's the problem. So- while that statement could be true- really, it's not that much better than the: 'things will get better' one. The truth is- no one actually knows.

And ultimately- it's not up to us to decide. It's down to the individual. They are the ones who are going to have to live that life- or, not. Not to say they shouldn't be given help if they choose to seek it but- it has to be their choice. You may think their reasoning wasn't sound or justifiable enough. You may think their future could have turned around quite easily. It's all going to be academic if they chose to end it. Otherwise though, I loved your thread.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

I really doubt that many people become suicidal over a minor problem in life. I doubt many just wake up one day with it. I think it more likely that this feeling has been building up and it's the minor problem that becomes the straw that breaks the camels back.

This sums it up quite nicely, it just builds over time only for the smallest thing to be the breaking point.

Just because you have convinced yourself of this nonsense doesn't mean it's real. Better times may or may not come, life doesn't provide guarantees in any case, and that's why there are people who will suffer from the moment they are born until they die. Are you going to tell a poor person living in Bangladesh that better times will come? They will likely live and die in suffering, and the only relief they will have is the ignorance of how bad their situation is.

Agreed, my mom's keeps saying that things will turn around after all the things that have happened but who said so? It fucking irritates me that she has to say it but I get it, who doesn't want to hold onto such a mechanism.

it's not like there's a universal law that keeps tab on all the bad things that have happened and will pay you back with good things when the time comes, who says it'll ever get better for anyone ever even if you let enough time pass, things can get worse incrementally or in big leaps.

 

[Ludivinicus]

I agreed with so many points in your thread but- this one stands alone more as a typical pro-life sentiment- the whole: 'Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem'. I'm not saying it's not the case in some situations- probably. But- how is that person or outsiders to ascertain this? Obviously not by going to a therapist or seeking help. We've just established that's a load of crap.

I'm not refuting it by the way. I think quite often, people get nervous when youngsters in particular want to kill themselves over a break up or- they failed an exam. The first time we encounter problems in life can feel like the end of the world. Like our whole future is now ruined. Still- who are any of us to say it isn't? What if that person feels sure they won't be able to get a job? They have no apptitude to study. No desire even to work in the first place? I'm not saying they should kill themselves. I'm just saying- I can understand why they might want to.

I really doubt that many people become suicidal over a minor problem in life. I doubt many just wake up one day with it. I think it more likely that this feeling has been building up and it's the minor problem that becomes the straw that breaks the camels back.

I'm just very wary of it as a statement because- it's usually imposed by pro-lifers on us. Under any circumstances too. How do they know how long that person has been struggling? Plus- it's not up to them to decide. It's actually the same as the whole: 'Things will get better.' How do you know that person's problem is temporary? What if the underlying reason they have the problem carries on? What if it can't be fixed? Or- the 'fix' isn't a good enough solution for that person? If they do manage to overcome it- will it then be rainbows there on out? You don't know. No one does. That's the problem. So- while that statement could be true- really, it's not that much better than the: 'things will get better' one. The truth is- no one actually knows.

And ultimately- it's not up to us to decide. It's down to the individual. They are the ones who are going to have to live that life- or, not. Not to say they shouldn't be given help if they choose to seek it but- it has to be their choice. You may think their reasoning wasn't sound or justifiable enough. You may think their future could have turned around quite easily. It's all going to be academic if they chose to end it. Otherwise though, I loved your thread.

You can't give advice that fits everyone. The point is simply that each person must evaluate their own problems. Obviously, you can do a much more complex analysis, for example, of cases like abuse, rape, and similar situations. An ignorant person may suggest that once the abuse stops, the problem is over, but it's not true. The problem of abuse ends once you have overcome all the consequences it has left you with, and that... can last a lifetime, depending on many factors. It reminds me of a quote from a war journalist, the war doesn't end when the battles are over but when the country has overcome all the effects of the war... It's the same with all these types of situations

But there are much less complex situations that are due to a person's lack of experience. If you're 16 years old and you break up with your partner and sink into a depression that makes you want to commit suicide, I'm really sorry, but committing suicide is the stupidest thing you can do because it's a relatively simple problem and all you need is to learn how to manage and control your emotions in the most cases.

There are stupid reasons to want to die, I don't think this is something debatable

 

[Meditation guide]

The last bit about temporary problems Whilst I agree, temporary can last a long time. My son is my problem, he physically abuses me but I can't leave the family unit til he is 18 and that's another 6 years. Feels like ages.

Hi, I'm concerned about you. If you want to chat you can message me. No one should be getting physically abused and there must be a solution.

 

[IWishToDie]

increase your chances of something good happening to you, but there are no guarantees.

I disagree with your post, I can see where you are coming from. Hear me out. I am physically disabled for all intents and purposes and am now at a point where improving will not make any difference. My pain is only escapable through death. There are people on this website though, a sizable minority who would certainly change their outlook on life AND circumstances if they just decided to put more effort into the right places.

There was a man who wanted to die because his job was too stressful. Dude was working nights (messing his endocrine system up) not using his body physically like god/evolution intended and most likely malnourished on a SAD diet. You can't tell me that working is the problem ergo he must die. Circumstances that can easily be changed need to be changed. I would want to kill myself in those shoes too but you know what? He can always try on another pair. I cant.

Many users here can't change shoes either but telling them to ignore all advice that would help them even slightly improve things is totally disingenuous.

You want to die over a broken heart? Give me a break. Come talk to me when your wife of 10 years dies of cancer, then we'll talk. You can always get a different job, you can't get a different body. Do you see?

Don't be such a doomer/blackpiller.

Seek help? I agree with you there -- there is no help, not for grown men. It's up to you alone.

Therapy? I'm half and half. It's bullsh*t for most people, although people with OCD for example really do benefit from behaviour/exposure therapy. Don't just completely write off therapy. Psychology is mostly hogwash, therapy itself is not useless for a lot of folks. Don't conflate the two.

Better times will come -- this is entirely situational as well. It is up to you to create good times and this is only done through struggle. That's life. It's not about how hard you can hit, it's about how hard you can get hit, then get up. That's how winning is done. For some, the struggle is never productive and if it's really too much to tolerate well then sure, go ahead and CTB. I respect your choice if your mind is 100% sure and you've assessed every single outcome.

I don't like this idea where you have to be either completely pro-choice or completely pro-life, it's really the same as political parties -- it's nonsense. Life is not a convenient packaged box, there are no sides that's simply illusion. Kill yourself if you must, you should be free to do so but you know what? Unless you're truly at rock bottom, I don't want to hear about it. This goes out to about 1 in 8 users on this website, you shouldn't be here.

Leave, be grateful you still have a body that works and you can turn things around. If you're 19 years old, unless you've been genuinely abused or crippled I don't want to hear about your """depression""", when you're not even trying a damn thing to help yourself. I've been there, it's just pathetic. I've been fat, made excuses for years. It was my own damn fault.

Use your heads.

 

[Ludivinicus]

I disagree with your post, I can see where you are coming from. Hear me out. I am physically disabled for all intents and purposes and am now at a point where improving will not make any difference. My pain is only escapable through death. There are people on this website though, a sizable minority who would certainly change their outlook on life AND circumstances if they just decided to put more effort into the right places.

There was a man who wanted to die because his job was too stressful. Dude was working nights (messing his endocrine system up) not using his body physically like god/evolution intended and most likely malnourished on a SAD diet. You can't tell me that working is the problem ergo he must die. Circumstances that can easily be changed need to be changed. I would want to kill myself in those shoes too but you know what? He can always try on another pair. I cant.

Many users here can't change shoes either but telling them to ignore all advice that would help them even slightly improve things is totally disingenuous.

You want to die over a broken heart? Give me a break. Come talk to me when your wife of 10 years dies of cancer, then we'll talk. You can always get a different job, you can't get a different body. Do you see?

Don't be such a doomer/blackpiller.

Seek help? I agree with you there -- there is no help, not for grown men. It's up to you alone.

Therapy? I'm half and half. It's bullsh*t for most people, although people with OCD for example really do benefit from behaviour/exposure therapy. Don't just completely write off therapy. Psychology is mostly hogwash, therapy itself is not useless for a lot of folks. Don't conflate the two.

Better times will come -- this is entirely situational as well. It is up to you to create good times and this is only done through struggle. That's life. It's not about how hard you can hit, it's about how hard you can get hit, then get up. That's how winning is done. For some, the struggle is never productive and if it's really too much to tolerate well then sure, go ahead and CTB. I respect your choice if your mind is 100% sure and you've assessed every single outcome.

I don't like this idea where you have to be either completely pro-choice or completely pro-life, it's really the same as political parties -- it's nonsense. Life is not a convenient packaged box, there are no sides that's simply illusion. Kill yourself if you must, you should be free to do so but you know what? Unless you're truly at rock bottom, I don't want to hear about it. This goes out to about 1 in 8 users on this website, you shouldn't be here.

Leave, be grateful you still have a body that works and you can turn things around. If you're 19 years old, unless you've been genuinely abused or crippled I don't want to hear about your """depression""", when you're not even trying a damn thing to help yourself. I've been there, it's just pathetic. I've been fat, made excuses for years. It was my own damn fault.

Use your heads.

I also completely disagree with your post. I partially wanted to die because no one ever finds me attractive enough and no one has ever been in love with me. I've been to +10 therapists, I'm pretty muscular, I try to display confidence, I try to do everything that is on the books and still fail miserably, people think that life is fair and if you do X or Y you'll end up living a happy life but LIFE IS NOT FAIR.

 

[Abyssal]

The help I want doesn't exist.

 

[SecretDissociation]

'think this is one of the things to be stuck in a limbo by. It is mighty hard getting the right help. And even if you do there is no chance that it will be permanent, like you said. Modern MH recovery is all about trials and tribulations. If this works for X then this will work for Y. But it won't. Sometimes the help you want doesn't exist like Abyssal ^^ said.

Currently, I do feel like the help I want will never come to me. Because I will need a lot of it. I'll need a lot of therapy, I will probably have to trial more medications too. Even if I input my opinions into my recovery, e.g I asked to be put back on sertraline, who knows how long it will last. So sometimes you get the help you want, but the help you want doesn't work and is temporary. Sorry if all this doesn't make sense haha I'm so off at the moment x

 

[divinemistress36]

I have a brain injury and treatment resistant depression and have tried every help available for it and some of it just made me worse. Some people just can't be helped

 

[Notwinnernotawin]

There are many impossible to be solved cases. Like mine. Includes constant stalking, death threats, gossiping... and of course a great dose of lies and a bitch of a mother to stop me from living.

 

[divinemistress36]

I disagree with your post, I can see where you are coming from. Hear me out. I am physically disabled for all intents and purposes and am now at a point where improving will not make any difference. My pain is only escapable through death. There are people on this website though, a sizable minority who would certainly change their outlook on life AND circumstances if they just decided to put more effort into the right places.

There was a man who wanted to die because his job was too stressful. Dude was working nights (messing his endocrine system up) not using his body physically like god/evolution intended and most likely malnourished on a SAD diet. You can't tell me that working is the problem ergo he must die. Circumstances that can easily be changed need to be changed. I would want to kill myself in those shoes too but you know what? He can always try on another pair. I cant.

Many users here can't change shoes either but telling them to ignore all advice that would help them even slightly improve things is totally disingenuous.

You want to die over a broken heart? Give me a break. Come talk to me when your wife of 10 years dies of cancer, then we'll talk. You can always get a different job, you can't get a different body. Do you see?

Don't be such a doomer/blackpiller.

Seek help? I agree with you there -- there is no help, not for grown men. It's up to you alone.

Therapy? I'm half and half. It's bullsh*t for most people, although people with OCD for example really do benefit from behaviour/exposure therapy. Don't just completely write off therapy. Psychology is mostly hogwash, therapy itself is not useless for a lot of folks. Don't conflate the two.

Better times will come -- this is entirely situational as well. It is up to you to create good times and this is only done through struggle. That's life. It's not about how hard you can hit, it's about how hard you can get hit, then get up. That's how winning is done. For some, the struggle is never productive and if it's really too much to tolerate well then sure, go ahead and CTB. I respect your choice if your mind is 100% sure and you've assessed every single outcome.

I don't like this idea where you have to be either completely pro-choice or completely pro-life, it's really the same as political parties -- it's nonsense. Life is not a convenient packaged box, there are no sides that's simply illusion. Kill yourself if you must, you should be free to do so but you know what? Unless you're truly at rock bottom, I don't want to hear about it. This goes out to about 1 in 8 users on this website, you shouldn't be here.

Leave, be grateful you still have a body that works and you can turn things around. If you're 19 years old, unless you've been genuinely abused or crippled I don't want to hear about your """depression""", when you're not even trying a damn thing to help yourself. I've been there, it's just pathetic. I've been fat, made excuses for years. It was my own damn fault.

Use your heads.

Well said

 

[vitbar]

No therapist has ever offered me guarantees. In fact a lot of my therapy has been around learning to accept uncertainty.