Discussion Writing about suicide

[Una]

Hi,


I am trying to find the right words to start this post with but finding none. Even though words are what I turn to, I am struggling to find any.

It has been over a year since the last time I posted on here.

Most of that time, I have spent staring vacantly in the empty space in those places where they escort you to the bathroom and where access to the internet is only occasional and even then controlled. None of them made me feel any better. Only more alone. More isolated.

Eventually, I came 'home.' A place I pay to have a roof over my head to keep my memories in. Alone.

I tried writing again. It is slow going.

A few days ago, I put to words what I have experienced in the thousand days since my daughter died. What I have witnessed and learned about suicide, society's perceptions and treatment of it. The widely spread ignorance, including my own. Some of that learning came from this and a couple of other forums I discovered. I wrote about the forums without identifying them. I also wrote about the initiatives I came across that try to ban the forums from the internet. Why I cannot agree with any of them.

A little bit later, I thought to share what I have written on this forum. In recognition of what I have learned here, and to hear your views. I have enclosed the article I wrote as a PDF document. If you read it and would like to let me know your views, either positive or negative, I thank you very much. If anyone finds anything I wrote even a little bit helpful - great. I believe that anything, no matter how controversial, can be discussed respectfully.


Thank you and all the best whatever it may mean to you.



Una

 

[return2dreamland]

i have no words. your writing is magnificent. i'm sorry for your loss, and i'm sorry for what you've been through.
this article is amazing at highlighting how broken the system is for those who are struggling.
your daughter's memorial is beautiful. may she rest in peace.
wishing you the best. <3

 

[WornOutLife]

I haven't read the whole thing but it looks really awesome!
Gonna read it properly tonight, maybe.

Hugs and love,

Matt

 

[FuneralCry]

You are an amazing writer, your words are keeping your daughters memory alive. I agree that many of the help options that are available such as helplines often aren't good enough. There needs to be reduced stigma towards suicide and more openess about it in conversations. Many people on the outsider perspective will just never understand until they are faced with it themselves.

 

[Una]

i have no words. your writing is magnificent. i'm sorry for your loss, and i'm sorry for what you've been through.
this article is amazing at highlighting how broken the system is for those who are struggling.
your daughter's memorial is beautiful. may she rest in peace.
wishing you the best. <3

Hi fatelovesyou,

Thank you very much for reading and for your kind words.
You are indeed right, the system is broken and I think it has been for a long time. The erosion process probably started with the distortion of values, favouring savage individualism above all else. You know ... every man for himself. I wish I could honestly say it will get better, but I doubted.

Thank you once again.

Una

I haven't read the whole thing but it looks really awesome!
Gonna read it properly tonight, maybe.

Hugs and love,

Matt

Hi Matt,

Thank you very much,

Sending you hugs and love back.

Una

You are an amazing writer, your words are keeping your daughters memory alive. I agree that many of the help options that are available such as helplines often aren't good enough. There needs to be reduced stigma towards suicide and more openess about it in conversations. Many people on the outsider perspective will just never understand until they are faced with it themselves.

Hi FuneralCry,

Thank you very much, it means a lot to me what you said.

I can't agree more; people looking from the outside can never understand until they face it themselves. It is one of my biggest sorrows to have been one such person. My daughter was one of the most beautiful people in every way a human can be beautiful ... and yet I have failed her.

I wish you the best,
Una

 

[Apathy79]

I don't know what to say after reading that. The About Debbie section of the site made me cry. I think it was your love for her that shone through so brightly that did it.

In the letter, I'd heard that Wallace quote at least paraphrased in the context of suicide before but gee it made me think. It's a powerful metaphor.

I wasn't sure what you were trying to achieve in court and with the open letter really - it felt like accountability, although you said you meant no harm, my impression is that's how it was received, although that could easily be my misinterpretation. My thoughts were that understanding that you're being asked for help is one thing but understanding how to actually help is another. Drawing on my own experience of my best friend explaining to me in great detail a previous attempt he'd made and how what led to it hadn't changed, and then later carrying it out, I felt like I could identify somewhat with some of those people who received the messages pleading for help and just didn't know what to do.

But that aside, much of what you wrote about suicide generally and how the systems work around it was extremely well elucidated and I wish was heard more broadly. It showed a level of understanding and an ability to translate that understanding into words that is very rarely seen.

I'll send you a private message about something else that I'm not sure I should say publicly but I think you'll want to know.

 

[Una]

I don't know what to say after reading that. The About Debbie section of the site made me cry. I think it was your love for her that shone through so brightly that did it.

In the letter, I'd heard that Wallace quote at least paraphrased in the context of suicide before but gee it made me think. It's a powerful metaphor.

I wasn't sure what you were trying to achieve in court and with the open letter really - it felt like accountability, although you said you meant no harm, my impression is that's how it was received, although that could easily be my misinterpretation. My thoughts were that understanding that you're being asked for help is one thing but understanding how to actually help is another. Drawing on my own experience of my best friend explaining to me in great detail a previous attempt he'd made and how what led to it hadn't changed, and then later carrying it out, I felt like I could identify somewhat with some of those people who received the messages pleading for help and just didn't know what to do.

But that aside, much of what you wrote about suicide generally and how the systems work around it was extremely well elucidated and I wish was heard more broadly. It showed a level of understanding and an ability to translate that understanding into words that is very rarely seen.

I'll send you a private message about something else that I'm not sure I should say publicly but I think you'll want to know.

Hi Apathy79,

Thank you for taking the time to read and write. I appreciate it a lot.

Where I live, the law dictates that a court process (inquest) is undertaken whenever a sudden death occurs, irrespective of whether self-inflicted or accidental. It is not something anyone but the legal system has any control over. Having been made to listen and to witness it all ... I soon realised that what I was hearing were more or less elaborate stories devised to obscure what actually happened or, in some instances, plain lies. I felt that not only wrong but disrespectful. Not so much from individuals who, after all, are only fallible humans as I am, but more so from the system. The hypocrisy of it. That was/is what I tried to convey in what I have written.

I agree with you that people often do not have an understanding of what to do to help. That I believe is one of the consequences of the societies persistant refusal to address the issues adequately, in all their realities and complexities. More people understand, less likely they are to be dismissive and/or ignorant.

I am very sorry you have lost your best friend. I know it must have been very hard. Especially being told about the previous attempt. I hope you would not mind me saying this, but it does not sound your friend had explicitly asked you for help. What I am trying to say is that there is a fine but important line between someone confiding in us as to what they have gone and/or going through and being explicitly asked for specific help, which is what my daughter did. It was the evidence of it that the recipients went to some length to hide. It is that I found unacceptable.

Thank you once again, and I will check my messages now too.

U

 

[Callie Arcale]

Dear @D&D

I only just discovered this thread and your essay today. I never knew your whole story, only bits and pieces. I've been reading the esaay and some of your earlier posts all evening, going over certain passages again and again, and now I'm so tired, my eyes hurt, but I can't stop. I can't stop reading and thinking of your daughter - what she went through and what you are going through. The tragedy of her reaching out for help and not being heard, and the absurdity of the "Findings".

I'm looking at the cover photo of the memorial site, the one with the beach, the cloudy sky. Her face is turned away but the smile bursts through, in all its beauty… I feel it somehow a sin to close down the browser window. I can't imagine, Una, I can't imagine what you must feel. There is something profoundly wrong with this world where your daughter died… How does the sun still go up???? How do the stars not stop shining in the sky????

There are many more things I want to say to you, I will do that soon. I find no words right now. So I'll just try "to keep it simple and obvious" instead, as her English teacher noted in red, and say I'm sending you the biggest and warmest hug

(the warmest hug one stranger ever send to another across time and space, since the world began.)

 

[D&D]

Dear @Callie Arcale

Thank you very much for your kindness, your sincerity, your humanity ... shining through your words. Thank you.

My daughter was the most beautiful soul, in every way a human can be beautiful ... her heart was big, true and generous. I established a memorial site in her memory and kept on writing her letters. I write to her rather than about her. This is why the letters are made of my words and snippets of her life ... photos, drawings, etc. In that way - we do it together. She is with me every moment of every day. Forty months exactly tomorrow. Of solitary grief. Profound sadness. Deep introspection. Revelations. Through it all I come to understand that we all learn what we must know before we leave this world. This is why it is said that we depart in light. We do. Of blinding clarity.

I am sending you a big, warm hug back ... the kind my daughter called 'mama bear's hugs' ... she would like that. I thank you again for your kindness ... whenever someone, somewhere reads or thinks about my daughter ... she lives in those moments. My deepest sadness is for what she had lost ... the life she did not live. My humblest prayer is for slipping quietly away ... as Rumi wrote; 'This is how I would die into the love I have for you: As pieces of cloud dissolve in sunlight.'

Una

 

[Callie Arcale]

Forty months… what a terrible milestone, dear Una. Although I am suicidal myself, I am obliterated when I think of D, so full of life and such a beautiful spirit. Is that poem about the space between the fingers written by her? I loved it… that's poetry in its purest form: making the familiar unfamiliar in order to uncover something that moves us.

Tonight I have very bad palpitations, they are like knives shooting through the heart. The entire left side of my chest feels hard and heavy, I guess it's from the muscles being tensed.

One of the things I wanted to say to you yesterday was that reading D'a favourite quote from Moulin Rouge was like reading about myself when I was young, barely out of adolescence. In my case I dreamed to find the truth for which I would live and die. That truth, in my mind, could only be love, because what else is worthy of complete devotion and absolute sacrifice? Just like her I fought like a lioness. And just like her I was mangled by life.

There is something so raw about losing someone as caring, full of life and inspirational as your young daughter. There are simply no words to talk about it. But silence is not an option either, because, it's as you say: she lives as long as she is remembered.

What "normal" people fail to realize is that there wouldn't be so many of us suffering and dying in silence, if only we were permitted to take suicide out of the dark closet where it lives, and bring it into the light.

Sending you a warm hug, dear @D&D

 

[wait-for-the-bus]

Hi,


I am trying to find the right words to start this post with but finding none. Even though words are what I turn to, I am struggling to find any.

It has been over a year since the last time I posted on here.

Most of that time, I have spent staring vacantly in the empty space in those places where they escort you to the bathroom and where access to the internet is only occasional and even then controlled. None of them made me feel any better. Only more alone. More isolated.

Eventually, I came 'home.' A place I pay to have a roof over my head to keep my memories in. Alone.

I tried writing again. It is slow going.

A few days ago, I put to words what I have experienced in the thousand days since my daughter died. What I have witnessed and learned about suicide, society's perceptions and treatment of it. The widely spread ignorance, including my own. Some of that learning came from this and a couple of other forums I discovered. I wrote about the forums without identifying them. I also wrote about the initiatives I came across that try to ban the forums from the internet. Why I cannot agree with any of them.

A little bit later, I thought to share what I have written on this forum. In recognition of what I have learned here, and to hear your views. I have enclosed the article I wrote as a PDF document. If you read it and would like to let me know your views, either positive or negative, I thank you very much. If anyone finds anything I wrote even a little bit helpful - great. I believe that anything, no matter how controversial, can be discussed respectfully.


Thank you and all the best whatever it may mean to you.



Una

Please keep writing - I want to hear your thoughts

 

[chocolatebar]

While reading your text, I was quickly struck by something about the young ones, "those under 25" and reading it was enough to hit me deeply in my wounds, but, even so, I've read it until the end, because I wanted to understand you, your ideas and feelings.

I can see part of myself in your words. The way I lived and the way my family treated me all my life has led me to this point. They denied me from everything, leaving me to the emptiness and now, that I'm desperate, they tell me that I could have done everything the whole time and didn't do just because I didn't want to. This enrages me so much! and they still prevents me from living at all costs.

My mind is so confused and I don't know if any of this makes any sense or is related to your message, but I'm following the suggestion in your avatar and "writing something".

 

[little helpers]

I want to say a heartfelt thank you. you deserve great respect and love. the writing, it touches on me so hard. on such a visceral level. being in the place of your daughter. if only someone cared. if only my screams were not in vain. I'm too damaged to convince myself that humanity really exists, somewhere, the way they claim it does. but, if only someone stepped in and showed me that "love" doesn't have to mean hurt, "trust" doesn't always turn into abuse, and "safety" is here, in life, my life, and I don't have to find it solely in death.

sometimes I think I been compelled to choose suicide. it's not free will when I have no option to live. it becomes what I have to do. like a drug habit, "that's just what I have to do."

there comes a point when things get pushed out of equilibrium. when the person is just done. totally done. with life. I don't want nothing else becuz - becuz I don't even have the capacity to take it in. I've lost the capacity to be human. lost the capacity to trust. and I no longer wish to put in the efforts to be human again, cuz I know from my whole life that it's mission impossible.

the way police officers treated you (I would not hesitate to say that it's just absuive), it angers me. you've opened me up to the reality that disabled, suicidal people, BIPOC folks, addicts etc, are not the only victims of their human sacrifice schemes. we mean nothing to them.
but even then we mean something to each other. we mean a lot. and however faint each of our individual glimmers are, we're bright as a nuclear explosion when we be and act together.

"help is on the way"….nah. YOUR words have helped me more than anything else.

at least to live through this hour.

thank you, so very much.

 

[D&D]

Forty months… what a terrible milestone, dear Una. Although I am suicidal myself, I am obliterated when I think of D, so full of life and such a beautiful spirit. Is that poem about the space between the fingers written by her? I loved it… that's poetry in its purest form: making the familiar unfamiliar in order to uncover something that moves us.

Tonight I have very bad palpitations, they are like knives shooting through the heart. The entire left side of my chest feels hard and heavy, I guess it's from the muscles being tensed.

One of the things I wanted to say to you yesterday was that reading D'a favourite quote from Moulin Rouge was like reading about myself when I was young, barely out of adolescence. In my case I dreamed to find the truth for which I would live and die. That truth, in my mind, could only be love, because what else is worthy of complete devotion and absolute sacrifice? Just like her I fought like a lioness. And just like her I was mangled by life.

There is something so raw about losing someone as caring, full of life and inspirational as your young daughter. There are simply no words to talk about it. But silence is not an option either, because, it's as you say: she lives as long as she is remembered.

What "normal" people fail to realize is that there wouldn't be so many of us suffering and dying in silence, if only we were permitted to take suicide out of the dark closet where it lives, and bring it into the light.

Sending you a warm hug, dear @D&D

Hi Callie,

Thank you once again for your kind and thoughtful comment. Yes she wrote that poem ... thank you.

I am very sorry to hear about your bad palpitations ... I have experienced stabbing, heart-crushing pain on more than few occasions in those last forty months and I am so sorry you feel that pain. It is devastating .... sending you all the love and care I can.

I can well relate to your thoughts about Moulin Rouge ... I felt like that when younger and so did my beautiful girl. Her heart was brimming with love and courage. I often quote Rumi, but he really described it best when he wrote; "Love so needs to love that it will endure almost anything, even abuse, just to flicker for a moment. But the sky's mouth is kind,
its song will never hurt you, for I sing those words."

I am sending you a warm hug too.

Please keep writing - I want to hear your thoughts

You have been very kind ... Thank you.

While reading your text, I was quickly struck by something about the young ones, "those under 25" and reading it was enough to hit me deeply in my wounds, but, even so, I've read it until the end, because I wanted to understand you, your ideas and feelings.

I can see part of myself in your words. The way I lived and the way my family treated me all my life has led me to this point. They denied me from everything, leaving me to the emptiness and now, that I'm desperate, they tell me that I could have done everything the whole time and didn't do just because I didn't want to. This enrages me so much! and they still prevents me from living at all costs.

My mind is so confused and I don't know if any of this makes any sense or is related to your message, but I'm following the suggestion in your avatar and "writing something".

Thank you very much for reading and for commenting.

Whenever a written word reflects to its reader their own experiences, experience they can relate to - it had achieved its purpose.

What you wrote makes sense ... writing is a process of transforming our thoughts into symbols (letters) decipherable to others. Through it we, our lives, our experiences, in whichever form, become visible to others. We become visible. This is why someone said that 'stories are human currency of humanity.'

I am deeply sorry to read about the emptiness you are experiencing as a result of the way your family treated you. Unfortunately, families are often 'blind' to what is really going on until the trauma of loss shatters the 'blindness' into million piercingly sharp pieces. I wish there is some way that can be changed. I wish there is a way to make people realize that loving someone is measured not by how much love they feel in their hearts, but rather how much the person they claim to love feel in theirs. It is, in my view, the hardest of all human lessons. I too have learned it too late. Such is my sin.

I am sending you warm wishes.

I want to say a heartfelt thank you. you deserve great respect and love. the writing, it touches on me so hard. on such a visceral level. being in the place of your daughter. if only someone cared. if only my screams were not in vain. I'm too damaged to convince myself that humanity really exists, somewhere, the way they claim it does. but, if only someone stepped in and showed me that "love" doesn't have to mean hurt, "trust" doesn't always turn into abuse, and "safety" is here, in life, my life, and I don't have to find it solely in death.

sometimes I think I been compelled to choose suicide. it's not free will when I have no option to live. it becomes what I have to do. like a drug habit, "that's just what I have to do."

there comes a point when things get pushed out of equilibrium. when the person is just done. totally done. with life. I don't want nothing else becuz - becuz I don't even have the capacity to take it in. I've lost the capacity to be human. lost the capacity to trust. and I no longer wish to put in the efforts to be human again, cuz I know from my whole life that it's mission impossible.

the way police officers treated you (I would not hesitate to say that it's just absuive), it angers me. you've opened me up to the reality that disabled, suicidal people, BIPOC folks, addicts etc, are not the only victims of their human sacrifice schemes. we mean nothing to them.
but even then we mean something to each other. we mean a lot. and however faint each of our individual glimmers are, we're bright as a nuclear explosion when we be and act together.

"help is on the way"….nah. YOUR words have helped me more than anything else.

at least to live through this hour.

thank you, so very much.

What you wrote touched me deeply and brought me to tears ... thank YOU.

I wish there is something I can say, some words I can write that can transform harshness of the reality you described as yours. Wanting to put a life aside is one thing, feeling compelled to is another. Humanity is made of fallible human beings ... shielding their own fragilities, insecurities and fears behind the armors of disregards, cruelty and arrogance.

I too feel as if I am no longer human ... and yet what you wrote, what I am writing now - it shows we are humans ... broken, sad, alone, hurt, but still human. When you wrote ' ... we mean something to each other ... ' - your human heart showed itself as tender and true.

I found that Viktor Frankl who himself was a concertation camp survivor expressed it best when he wrote: "Man is that being who invented the gas chambers of Auschwitz; however, he is also that being who entered those chambers upright, with the Lord's Prayer or the Shema Yisrael on his lips."

Sending you kindness.