Discussion Would you still want to ctb even if death wasn't inevitable?

[ijustwishtodie]

I see the argument from many people here to justify ctb that, since death is inevitable, they're just merely speeding up the process to something that's going to happen anyway

However, what if death isn't inevitable? Lets say that you aren't guaranteed to die by natural causes and that you can only die from a successful ctb attempt. Would you want to ctb then?

Personally, I would but I'd like to hear your opinions on this

 

[ctbcat]

hmm... i think it would hurt my loved ones a fuck ton more, with less ways one could die. but... yeah, i would still. i don't find value in my life either way, and ctb is the only seeming escape from the agony i put myself through. i would just have to be more selfish, in that scenario. a lot more rationalisation.

 

[FuneralCry]

Of course, as the thought of suffering in this existence for all eternity is absolutely horrifying to me. I wish to cease existing as existence is completely undesirable, I'd prefer to not exist no matter what.

 

[Tokugawa_Yoshinobu]

After a while if you are inmmortal in that sense that you can't die naturally, there is nothing to live for anymore. You have likely learned everything interesting to know about the world after a while. You've seen it all. You are a low-key god in a sense but without more supernatural abilities. Sucks that so you might as well kill yourself after like what? Many hundreds of years? Just because you realize who silly humans actually are and you can't stand it.

 

[Adûnâi]

I choose to trust Klaus Schwab to turn me into his permanent slave one day, granting me eternal life after the AGI singularity.

 

[wCvML2]

I imagine when people can prevent all death by accident and illness; they will probably make suicide impossible by that point.

 

[EyesOfNight]

Being immortal would be a reason to CTB for me. I don't want to endure the years I have left now and most certainly not an eternity.

 

[Adûnâi]

You have likely learned everything interesting to know about the world after a while. You've seen it all. You are a low-key god in a sense but without more supernatural abilities. Sucks that so you might as well kill yourself after like what? Many hundreds of years?

Being immortal would be a reason to CTB for me. I don't want to endure the years I have left now and most certainly not an eternity.

But it won't really be you, or the current you anyway? In that way, you're but a vehicle for an eternal entity who might have its roots in the unremarkable present, but which reaches farther beyond. Although I doubt for multiple such entities to exist at that point. See the Matryoshka Brain, a computer which uses the entire power of the Sun. Unless you'd count the countless simulated thought-realities as entities.

 

[onbekend]

I would probably be a bit more hesitant, but I would still carry on through with it as it's not my primary reason for my wish to die. I've been kinda forced into a position where I have to CTB as it is, so my answer would be yes.

 

[Forever Sleep]

If we weren't able to die naturally, we presumably would think of death in a completely different way, so it's hard to say. A lot of us already know how we feel about ourselves dieing. Most of us are likey pretty ok with it I imagine. But, if death wasn't a thing that had to happen at all, pro-lifers may be even more resistant to it and go to even further lengths to prevent it.

Of course- they simply couldn't hold that opinion long-term. This planet can't sustain an infinite amount of human beings. It would get to a point where all the resources would run out and we'd likely all start killing one another for them. Like now, only worse. I expect by that point, they'd be grateful for some people choosing to go!

Personally though, it's hard to say. Presumably, the family members who died early on wouldn't be dead and maybe my life would have turned out differently. Who knows?

 

[Umacon]

Living in eternity would be boring I think. Maybe I would have a second thought if I was rich, not depressed, without anhedonia and young forever.

 

[Slow_Farewell]

If in this scenario all other aspects of life remained the same, then yes, i'd still CTB.
Granted, with enough time one CAN alter certain aspects of one's existence like the financial aspects, for example. But then the body's breaking down already so i wouldnt be able to enjoy the change in my status.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

If we weren't able to die naturally, we presumably would think of death in a completely different way, so it's hard to say. A lot of us already know how we feel about ourselves dieing. Most of us are likey pretty ok with it I imagine. But, if death wasn't a thing that had to happen at all, pro-lifers may be even more resistant to it and go to even further lengths to prevent it.

Of course- they simply couldn't hold that opinion long-term. This planet can't sustain an infinite amount of human beings. It would get to a point where all the resources would run out and we'd likely all start killing one another for them. Like now, only worse. I expect by that point, they'd be grateful for some people choosing to go!

Personally though, it's hard to say. Presumably, the family members who died early on wouldn't be dead and maybe my life would have turned out differently. Who knows?

I didn't even consider all of this nuance when asking my question. I only asked my question because I tend to see people here further justify their ctb by saying that death is inevitable and so I wondered if their response would be different if death wasn't inevitable but still possible.

But, yes, as you and another user before you stated, if death wasn't inevitable, suicide would be far harder to do as there would be "less holes to patch up" so to say as humans can focus more of their power on keeping people alive through restricting the few methods available. Though, like you also said, if humans had the chance to live longer, most of them would do it which would be a massive issue in terms of resources. Either there would have to be massive actions that would be taken or humanity would just deplete all of the resources as they see preventing new humans being born as genocide

I guess I originally asked the question assuming that everything would be the same and the only difference is that death isn't inevitable. However, I'd say that considering the impact that this would have and the nuance behind this is far more interesting

 

[sserafim]

Yeah, nothing about life (or adulthood, middle age, or old age) appeals to me. I'd rather just ctb now, I don't want to have to experience those stages of life for myself. I don't want to get old and wrinkled and have my physical health and mental faculties decline.

Adulthood and work is basically modern-day slavery and society is a pyramid scheme that we're all expected to participate in. It's such a scam. Personally, I'm ctb'ing to escape it.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I didn't even consider all of this nuance when asking my question. I only asked my question because I tend to see people here further justify their ctb by saying that death is inevitable and so I wondered if their response would be different if death wasn't inevitable but still possible.

But, yes, as you and another user before you stated, if death wasn't inevitable, suicide would be far harder to do as there would be "less holes to patch up" so to say as humans can focus more of their power on keeping people alive through restricting the few methods available. Though, like you also said, if humans had the chance to live longer, most of them would do it which would be a massive issue in terms of resources. Either there would have to be massive actions that would be taken or humanity would just deplete all of the resources as they see preventing new humans being born as genocide

I guess I originally asked the question assuming that everything would be the same and the only difference is that death isn't inevitable. However, I'd say that considering the impact that this would have and the nuance behind this is far more interesting

I don't think any of us can really imagine what it would be like to live in a different culture or era that had different ideas on death. It's hard to predict how that would change our outlook. Imagine say being an Aztec where human sacrifice was seen as an honour. I think they would often sacrifice prisoners but, people would volunteer too and presumably, they would be treated as heroes. Weird to think how much our cultures dictate our lives. I wonder whether we'll ever reach an age where it as truly accepted as someone's right.

 

[Doemu]

Yes, wich i hate is existance. Probably i would ctb my self later, cause i'm to much stupid and i ever try to do things to make world better and fail even when i know, i will ctb anyway.

 

[Life_and_Death]

Lets say that you aren't guaranteed to die by natural causes and that you can only die from a successful ctb attempt.

what about something in between like a car accident? its not what i would call natural (got sick, out in the woods and got a snake/spider bite, infection) but its not ctb either

a big part of my reason is avoiding a long gruesome drawn out death.
if that is included...id probably still want to ctb anyway because i dont like the idea of drawn out pain until living again either
(i cant even get something as basic as bloodwork tbf)

 

[ijustwishtodie]

what about something in between like a car accident? its not what i would call natural (got sick, out in the woods and got a snake/spider bite, infection) but its not ctb either

For the purposes of this thread, I defined a "natural" death as a death not caused by a suicide attempt as I assumed that's how many people defined it. Though, now that you mention it, something like a car accident doesn't seem natural yet people tend to imply that it is natural (at least in comparison to ctb). On second thought, it doesn't matter if these sorts of events were to be included as the main idea is that death isn't inevitable anymore so now I changed my mind; I'd allow these events to lead to death if it is fatal enough

That said, these events should hypothetically be rare to happen as they seem to be right now. You can rely on getting hit by a car unintentionally but is it likely?

a big part of my reason is avoiding a long gruesome drawn out death.
if that is included...id probably still want to ctb anyway because i dont like the idea of drawn out pain until living again either
(i cant even get something as basic as bloodwork tbf)

Fair enough. Continually being in pain for no meaning or reward for it sounds awful. That's a reason why I don't wish to live

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Yes I want to ctb no matter what as soon as possible. The longer you live the higher the probability of something really horrible happening to you. Any day a sentient creature chooses to live they are a taking a risk of extreme torture.

But what u say is impossible.Death is inevitable .Every thing dies and becomes disordered . The law of Entropy the 2nd law of Thermodynanics can never be violated.Even the whole universe is expanding into nothingness forever

 

[SoulofSteel]

I would say that if death wasn't inevitable that would be even more of a reason to CTB, because the suffering would be eternal.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

Yes I want to ctb no matter what as soon as possible. The longer you live the higher the probability of something really horrible happening to you. Any day a sentient creature chooses to live they are a taking a risk of extreme torture.

But what u say is impossible.Death is inevitable .Every thing dies and becomes disordered . The law of Entropy the 2nd law of Thermodynanics can never be violated.Even the whole universe is expanding into nothingness forever

Yeah, I wish to be dead no matter what too. And I agree with you regarding the probability risk of staying alive. Though, another consequence of staying alive is that your suffering keeps on accumulating

Also, I know that what I say is impossible and I'm extremely thankful for that fact. I thought I didn't understand gratefulness because I'm wrong as I'm grateful that we'll only be alive for a short, finite amount of time. My question was only a hypothetical as I wondered if people would still want to ctb if death isn't inevitable. From what I've seen here, in the hypothetical world in where death isn't inevitable, people here seem like they would want to ctb even more and I think that's understandable. Living in a world where entropy didn't consume us all would be extremely scary.. far beyond imagination