Would you consider it murder…?

[Humdinger2023]

I'm pregnant.

Would you consider suicide an act of murder?

 

[HerculePoirot]

Without expressing any moral assessment here, perhaps could you wait until the childbirth ?

 

[tora]

nope. I would not consider that murder.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

That's a very difficult question. Of course you're going to have to answer than one for yourself, so no matter what someone else thinks about it, it really shouldn't influence your decision at all. With that said, and my belief that no one has the right to decide whether someone else lives or dies, to me it would be. But, that's just me. And I'm a little hypocritical here because I support a woman's right to choose 100% whether to have a baby or have an abortion. I don't know how to reconcile the difference between these seemingly diametrically opposed stances. I understand there's conflict in my beliefs. There's just something different and even I can't define what that difference is. Better to just ignore this post, as I know it's quite convoluted. Sorry.

 

[Humdinger2023]

Without expressing any moral assessment here, perhaps could you wait until the childbirth ?

I don't want to leave my husband with two children on his own.

 

[front of me]

If you are at the beginning of your pregnancy, please abort it

 

[jellie]

Honestly, I think it depends on how far along you are. If you are not very far along, you are dealing with a clump of cells and I would not consider suicide while newly pregnant to be an act of murder. I think it is worth evaluating your stance on abortion and what you might think if a person who is as far along as you are aborted their pregnancy.
Ultimately it is your body and you should do with it as you please.

 

[undecided]

If you're nearing full term and you've felt baby move, then I think the right thing to do would be to give your child a chance at life. You can consider your options again once your baby is born. Of course, not knowing the full circumstances makes it difficult to offer an opinion, but that's my thoughts on what you've said so far.

 

[Alessa_Silent_Doll]

I don't want to leave my husband with two children on his own.

If you hesitate to commit CBT, because you might leave your husband alone with two children, stay alive and help him to rise all of them. In my opinion, planning and "pulling the trigger" is about your own personal experience, it has nothing to do with others.

 

[UKscotty]

Definitely murder, wait till the child has been born.

We all have the right to die but not take the lives of others with us.

 

[polka slide]

Some people consider abortion murder, so if that's your mindset then yeah. Personally, I wouldn't say that it's murder.

 

[LonelyKitten]

So this would effectively be an abortion.
Your stance could derive from that.

Legally, at least in the States there's some places where trying this could actually be charged as attempted murder, so I'd be careful, depending where you live in the world.

 

[Touhou]

Yes, abortion is murder.

 

[lessthanperfect]

It depends.

Early on in your pregnancy, this is not murder as you are killing a clump of cells and not a person.

Later on in your pregnancy is where it gets tricky because there's a life now in that clump of cells, but if it can't survive on its own it is not your job to be life support.

In my opinion, murder or not, I'd rather my mother have aborted me, but I'm antinatalist so my opinion is biased.

It's ultimately up to you and your beliefs.

 

[The Burning Fool]

Yes, abortion is murder.

Last month you wrote that Russia is defending against Ukraine, in those words. Do you consider yourself a right wing conservative?

 

[Touhou]

Last month you wrote that Russia is defending against Ukraine, in those words. Do you consider yourself a right wing conservative?

Yes, I do. Why do you ask? I don't think this is a political debate thread.

 

[The Burning Fool]

Yes, I do. Why do you ask? I don't think this is a political debate thread.

Because I find the topic interesting, and I think the war in Ukraine is an offense against humanity. The Holocaust is also an example of a great historical injustice. Would you please share your opinion on that? I'm curious.

 

[Touhou]

Because I find the topic interesting, and I think the war in Ukraine is an offense against humanity. The Holocaust is also an example of a great historical injustice. Would you please share your opinion on that? I'm curious.

The Holocaust was a horrid crime against humanity & is incomparable to the war in Ukraine in my opinion.

 

[The Burning Fool]

The Holocaust was a horrid crime against humanity & is incomparable to the war in Ukraine in my opinion.

Thanks, I agree. I just don't understand how the war in Ukraine can be interpreted as anything else than Russia invading one of its neighbors in an attempt to gain economical strength and political power. But I'm open to broadening my perspective. I wonder, what theoretically sound casus belli had Russia had to start any military operations in Donetsk, Luhansk? Sorry for being off topic, I still believe that this can be a fruitful discussion.

 

[Touhou]

Thanks, I agree. I just don't understand how the war in Ukraine can be interpreted as anything else than Russia invading one of its neighbors in an attempt to gain economical strength and political power. But I'm open to broadening my perspective. I wonder, what theoretically sound casus belli had Russia had to start any military operations in Donetsk, Luhansk? Sorry for being off topic, I still believe that this can be a fruitful discussion.

According to the 2001 Ukrainian census, Donetsk and Luhansk both have a significant Russian population, with Crimea even having a Russian ethnic majority. In my view, Ukraine is, despite appearing to be the defending side in this conflict, stubbornly holding areas with Russian ethnic/linguistic majorities & therefore are the aggressors. I believe that the Kremlin drone attack is a clear indicator of my analysis being true.

 

[The Burning Fool]

According to the 2001 Ukrainian census, Donetsk and Luhansk both have a significant Russian population, with Crimea even having a Russian ethnic majority. In my view, Ukraine is, despite appearing to be the defending side in this conflict, stubbornly holding areas with Russian ethnic/linguistic majorities & therefore are the aggressors. I believe that the Kremlin drone attack is a clear indicator of my analysis being true.

Thank you for answering. I hope that you also recognize any and all crimes occurring, committed by any of the parties included. Acceptance of thoroughly substantiated claims simply serves historical integrity and thereby accuracy.

I know that the national anthem of my country has been banned in Munkács. But other, even more severe human rights violations have also been committed against Hungarians by Ukrainian official bodies. I'm acknowledging that with the aforementioned goals held in regard, not as a means to arbitrarily take events out of context. I still believe that Russia is by far the greater evil in the current conflict.

 

[Forever Sleep]

That's such a difficult question. To look at it another way- if someone murders a pregnant woman- I would consider that a double murder. However, I do believe in the right of abortion. Basically- that child is unwanted for whatever reason- what are the chances it will have a good life? It may not be guaranteed to have a bad one but I imagine the risks are far greater.

Plus- who remembers that far back? Anyone remember being in the womb?!! We are talking about life but to what degree? It's curious that we place so much emphasis on a human life that probably isn't even sentient yet but I expect the majority of us are directly responsible for hundreds, thousands, maybe tens of thousands of fully sentient animals losing their lives. Sometimes in really brutal ways and it's quite often young animals that get slaughtered.

I guess the nuts and bolts of it are- it IS another person's life that is being destroyed without their permission. Still- they're not being given the choice on whether they want to come here in the first place either. Having antinatalist views myself, I wonder if that's just as bad. (Sorry.) Many people here feel as if they have been forced into existence to then suffer slowly. I expect the majority here would prefer to have been killed before birth.

Quite honestly- I find it almost impossible to answer. If a creature's life is going to be full of struggle and pain, I think a quick death is the kindest option. I ran a poll once and I think it was something like 80% of the people here wished they hadn't been born to begin with. That said- no one knows. You really don't know whether you would be saving them from a great deal of pain or, depriving them from a happy life.

If you choose to have the baby, It sounds like they will be growing up without their mother for a start. I have personal experience of that. My Mum died from natural causes when I was 3. Sorry to guilt trip you but- that's not going to be fun for them either. Honestly, I struggle when parents want to kill themselves because I've experienced the repurcussions. Still, I do understand how hard life is and I can't really judge anyone for wanting to leave it. I'm sorry you find yourself with such a difficult decision to make.

 

[MyChoiceAlone]

if you're not gonna stick around to raise it. then you will probably be doing it a favor. i vote no.

 

[M.O.N]

personally, I wouldn't consider it to be anymore of a murder than any suicide. your body doesn't become any less your own because someone else is reliant on you. however, if you chose to ctb and failed, depending on where you live you could face attempted/murder charges. it's a very difficult situation to be in and I'm sorry you're having to make such a choice. I'm wishing you the best, I hope you make the decision that is right for you. sending hugs.

 

[Dot]

Last month you wrote that Russia is defending against Ukraine, in those words. Do you consider yourself a right wing conservative?

Ths = nt th/ thred fr tht convrsatn

 

[The Burning Fool]

Ths = nt th/ thred fr tht convrsatn

Sorry for being off topic. I'm having a hard time with organizing my thoughts, but I didn't mean to cause any inconvenience. I'll do my best to refrain from writing off topic replies in the future.

 

[ayaneechan]

It's probably an abortion
If abortion is murder or no it's still lot debated, personally I not want to give an option about cuz I not have really one.
What I can say is that it should probably be a personal choice and maybe making some evaluation before can be better

 

[Iamtired]

It's probably really selfish tbh. Murder, im not sure.

 

[Unwr!tten]

Like so many others here, I definitely think it depends on where you're at in your pregnancy, your own views, etc…

 

[Dying Knight]

In my opinion, killing a fetus is a murder, but not any murder is necessarily an evil. In exceptional cases, murder should be allowed, and killing a fetus by its mother is one of such exceptional cases.

The consequences of killing a fetus are the same as if the mother never allowed to inseminate her; in either case she prevents existence of some human life which could potentially exist if other choice were made. As long as a potential mother is allowed to have a choice of avoiding a pregnancy, a similar choice should be allowed with regard to killing a fetus inside her body.