Would you agree that many young people's depression is due to their unrealistic expectations?

[motel rooms]

Would you agree that many kids' depression is due to them having utterly unrealistic expectations from life? Way too many morons in developed countries protect their kids from reality at all costs & raise them to believe in sappy fairy tales about perfect happiness. I'm not saying children should be forced to memorize Schopenhauer quotes & practice partial after school, but things have really gotten out of hand. Yes, I know this is an unoriginal thread topic, but so are 90 % of them.

 

[bed]

possibly. another large contributing factor is time spent online, i believe.

 

[motel rooms]

possibly. another large contributing factor is time spent online, i believe.

Yeah, but that's also something parents are largely to blame for

 

[Apricity]

possibly. another large contributing factor is time spent online, i believe.

I feel that people do too much these days trying to protect their kids. I believe that this type of helicopter parenting is unhealthy, it contributes to lack of independence, and leads to too much screen time which can weaken people's abilities to truly socialize. Socialization is important for a healthy mental state. YES, there are creeps out there that want to hurt kids, but no more than there was before. It's less common now, in fact. Source: Crimes Against Children Research Center

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

Think it's just due to living in a worse time.

 

[TotallyIsolated]

This sounds a lot like the tired old "kids these days should toughen up" argument which is total bollocks.

I know the stats just above show child abuse in decline, but I think older generations just didn't deal with it or pretended it wasn't an issue. I see it as uncovering an old wound rather than trying to pretend you're still fine. Outwardly its gonna look like you suddenly got worse, but thats just because you were suffering in silence before.

I think child abuse is a major factor, and not just the kind that counts as a crime. Bad parenting, emotional abuse or neglect, etc... Kids these days have access to resources we never had, and they can reach out to each other like never before. I think they're just more in touch with their pain and trauma. Its not necessarily that its worse than in previous generations, but they actually understand and connect with it better than we did. Its healthy.

Plus, you know, we've fucking destroyed their planet. War, death, hatred. Every god damn day there's some kind of crisis the likes of which the world has never seen. Kids would be right to be pessimistic, frankly.

 

[author]

I wouldn't say so, OP. I'm commenting on this from my own perspective of being pretty young, but...

Young people are raised to believe we'll be able to get through school, go through college, and get a job. The system has been failing us for years now, putting us in massive debt from college and then throwing us to the wayside because no one will hire us. You're extra fucked if you're like me and are any type of disabled. Every job - even entry level - requires experience, too, without thinking of the young people who are looking for a job and haven't had one before. It's why I've never had a job before despite looking desperately for one for years - no one wants someone with no job experience, which ironically prevents you from getting said experience.

I and many other people I talk to my age (20s) want very simple things out of life. We want our own place to live like an apartment or small house, to not have to worry where our next meal is coming from, and to not work a job that makes us want to ctb. Honestly, wouldn't call that very idealistic or pampered. I mean, hell, most people in my generation didn't even think we'd get past 18. I hear it all the time, and I'm one of those people. I didn't think I'd make it to 20.

I also haven't met anyone my age with good parents. Like, genuinely. I've met someone with a decent mother and one of the worst fathers, but that was the closest I got. Basically, no one I've met was protected by their parents - including myself, who's a victim of neglect, abuse, and CSA. I don't know if I really trust that graph up there because crimes are very often under-reported, especially on children who can't speak up about it and cyber-crimes. The crimes against me as a child never got reported, because no one noticed and I was in danger if I spoke up. It's also too late for law enforcement to do anything about it now, since it's been years.

Maybe it's unrealistic to want even simple things out of life with the way the system has failed us, but that's pessimism on my part.

 

[Fragile]

100% agree.

Definitely not all, but many people are unable to face reality simply because they've never been exposed to it. Most people dream big, but those dreams are not possible for the vast majority. Not everyone is born in the conditions that can turn them into a star, or a rich person, or even a master in their craft, and yet, we are constantly bombarded with success stories of the 0,1% that made it big but we are never told that many of them (maybe the vast majority) were born in very stable conditions that facilitated that level of success.

Also, social media exacerbates this issue to incredibly high magnitudes. Especially because the ones who get the most attention are the ones who have really good lives, or even if they don't, they manage to show the snippets of it that paint a very distorted and unrealistic picture of it.

 

[Apricity]

I was on a baseball team when I was 10 years old (1992 ), and we lost almost every single game. I got a trophy at the end of the year. I thought it was stupid then and I think that it's stupid now. It's one of the things that causes unrealistic expectations in life, that you'll get rewarded even if you fail.

 

[motel rooms]

This sounds a lot like the tired old "kids these days should toughen up" argument which is total bollocks.

Nope. I'm just saying that kids deserve realistic parents capable of healthy parenting.

Think it's just due to living in a worse time.

@GenesAndEnvironment Well, dumbasses who reproduce in these fucked-up times need to try much harder to raise their kids to be much more realistic & resilient. I realize that's a pretty tall order seeing as they're dumbasses, though.

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

It's a tough one. How do you prime your kids for a world this shit? It's the duality too of young people seeing a handful of stars and online celebs/influencers, imagining everyone is living like that, while the reality is very different. The truth is that there is a crazy amount of competition for just about anything and you're going to be screwed if you're not ruthless (and/or lucky).

The feeling of "futility" is big, I think. The sense that nothing really matters or that we're not worth a damn or can't make any impact. Abuse etc aside, I think the feeling of being mediocre and being just like everyone else with nothing special to offer is difficult to reconcile in a person's mind. And as everything gets more competitive with billions more people on Earth in just a short space of time, I really see that as being a huge issue.

 

[motel rooms]

Young people are raised to believe we'll be able to get through school, go through college, and get a job. The system has been failing us for years now, putting us in massive debt from college and then throwing us to the wayside because no one will hire us.

@author You do realize that I'm not saying it's kids' fault that they have unrealistic expectations, don't you?

Maybe it's unrealistic to want even simple things out of life with the way the system has failed us, but that's pessimism on my part.

Since you are aware of the fact that the system has failed young people, I'd call you a realist, not a pessimist.

I and many other people I talk to my age (20s) want very simple things out of life. We want our own place to live like an apartment or small house, to not have to worry where our next meal is coming from, and to not work a job that makes us want to ctb. Honestly, wouldn't call that very idealistic or pampered.

I definitely didn't call it pampered either.

Basically, no one I've met was protected by their parents - including myself, who's a victim of neglect, abuse, and CSA.

I'm all of those things too. I'm sorry your life was derailed at such a young age...

It's the duality too of young people seeing a handful of stars and online celebs/influencers, imagining everyone is living like that, while the reality is very different. The truth is that there is a crazy amount of competition for just about anything and you're going to be screwed if you're not ruthless (and/or lucky).

The feeling of "futility" is big, I think. The sense that nothing really matters or that we're not worth a damn or can't make any impact. Abuse etc aside, I think the feeling of being mediocre and being just like everyone else with nothing special to offer is difficult to reconcile in a person's mind. And as everything gets more competitive with billions more people on Earth in just a short space of time, I really see that as being a huge issue.

None of that is incompatible with my claim that people raise / society produces kids with unrealistic expectations....

 

[Lone_Gray_Wolf]

I was just thinking about this and human relationships.
I was thinking of how resilient people were back then, I look at older people, they tell me what they went through and I can't make sense on why am I struggling so much with objectively less challenging situations; I would really like an explanation, even if it is that I am weaker than them. It just doesn't make sense.

Another thing I thought about has to do with human contact, people say that before, people used to go out more. Let's think of the idea of human interaction, many have very few friends, if any. Could it be that having contact with other humans via the internet became an unconscious replacement for actual physical interaction, as our brain see both as interaction because not too long ago, this kind of virtual interaction was unconceivable? I hope I got my point across.

 

[FuneralCry]

It is probably true in many cases. I can imagine it can make many people depressed when they are forced to confront the harsh realities of life, their delusions shattered. Life is essentially just suffering, of course some lives have a lot more of it than others as everything depends on luck, but I think having unrealistic expectations will just end up causing people pain.

 

[Rational man]

You make an interesting point to which I concur. I also add the false mindset that parents and kids attach to the value of material wealth. Sure, we need stuff to live but why are we judged upon material possessions, which invariably own us and eventually, we leave behind ?. Some of the most treasured people I have met were poverty striken but street- wise. Humankind is perpetually dissatisfied with expectations. The top bar gets pushed higher, and as fait accompli would have it, expectations are never met, kids dont know themselves, and the spiral o depression sets in.......sad.

 

[Someone123]

I feel that people do too much these days trying to protect their kids. I believe that this type of helicopter parenting is unhealthy, it contributes to lack of independence, and leads to too much screen time which can weaken people's abilities to truly socialize. Socialization is important for a healthy mental state. YES, there are creeps out there that want to hurt kids, but no more than there was before. It's less common now, in fact. Source: Crimes Against Children Research Center
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Mental and emotional abuse, when very severe, can be worse than all of these, and it is very difficult if not impossible to measure- the U.S. has a lot of feast or famine- the majority of the population have pretty easy lives, in my opinion- yes they have problems, but they are reasonable- this can include illness, etc. For people who are severely abused, a significanr percentage, life is often much, much worse. I personally doubt a decline in abuse being this much, considering that most is not reported- this can only be a measure of what is reported.

 

[motel rooms]

It is probably true in many cases. I can imagine it can make many people depressed when they are forced to confront the harsh realities of life, their delusions shattered. Life is essentially just suffering, of course some lives have a lot more of it than others as everything depends on luck, but I think having unrealistic expectations will just end up causing people pain.

Yes... Also, thank you for noticing that I was talking about many young people/cases, not all of them.

 

[author]

@author You do realize that I'm not saying it's kids' fault that they have unrealistic expectations, don't you?



I'd call you a realist, not a pessimist.



I definitely didn't call it pampered either.



I'm all of those things too. I'm sorry your life was derailed at such a young age...




None of that is incompatible with my claim that people raise / society produces kids with unrealistic expectations....

I know you didn't say it was kids' fault. I know you didn't say it was pampered. I'm not putting words in your mouth, I am simply speaking in my own experience. Honestly, the last statement really was pessimism on my part, too.

The point I was trying to make is that our expectations aren't unrealistic - we want very simple things. A lot of it is just wanting stability and independence. But the way the system has failed us, continues to fail us, and the way parents have treated us contributes to the fact that so many more young people are hurt, abused, depressed, etc. I was also countering the point you made when you said parents protected kids from reality - because I've never found this to be the case with anyone my age that I've met or heard of.

I never said it was our fault. I never said that you said it was our fault. I spoke from my own experience, that's all. /gen

 

[motel rooms]

I was also countering the point you made when you said parents protected kids from reality - because I've never found this to be the case with anyone my age that I've met or heard of.

I'm sure you've heard of "helicopter parents". There are a lot of them out there...

 

[author]

I'm sure you've heard of "helicopter parents". There are a lot of them out there...

I've never met a person my age with helicopter parents. It's always been people much older than me, and honestly the number isn't that big. Probably only a couple people.

 

[motel rooms]

I've never met a person my age with helicopter parents. It's always been people much older than me, and honestly the number isn't that big. Probably only a couple people.

But you, like me, were a victim of neglect & CSA, so maybe you weren't exposed to enough normies in your childhood...

 

[Thaneem]

Firstly, all children should be forced to memorize Schopenhauer quotes lol.
Second, IMO, there's a difference between true depression on the one hand and having a pity-party over realizing that after 2 decades of coddling and social brainwashing, you arent actually "special" on the other.
Honestly, kids who are killing themselves because their iphones are getting taken away or whatever are pathetic and I'm kind of glad that they arent around.

 

[motel rooms]

Second, IMO, there's a difference between true depression on the one hand and having a pity-party over realizing that after 2 decades of coddling and social brainwashing, you arent actually "special" on the other.
Honestly, kids who are killing themselves because their iphones are getting taken away or whatever are pathetic and I'm kind of glad that they arent around.

That's a bit harsh... Children don't choose to be brainwashed into being spoiled, superficial & obnoxious

 

[Thaneem]

Yes and no. There's a point where a child ceases to become a child. To an extent we are are subject to our environment and of course to our genes, but we also have free will.
My best friend suffered horrible sexual abuse from his father growing up. From there, he went into foster care. From there, homelessness. From there, eventually, he attained a somewhat function life. Today he has a small daughter who he dotes on constantly.
My friend is a body builder, a poet, a singer. His father was all of those same things. He also suffered childhood abuse and grew up in foster care.
A few months ago I asked my friend: why do you think you turned out the way you did and your father turned out the way he did? Similar genes, backgrounds and interests, but so opposite.
He said that his father resented having any personal responsibility, even to his own children. Basically, he was selfish. IMO, that was a choice. I can't feel bad about what that man chose to do because of his background, and I can't feel bad about some kid killing himself over a playstation. Personal choices...really dumb ones

 

[Superdeterminist]

Yes and no. There's a point where a child ceases to become a child. To an extent we are are subject to our environment and of course to our genes, but we also have free will.
My best friend suffered horrible sexual abuse from his father growing up. From there, he went into foster care. From there, homelessness. From there, eventually, he attained a somewhat function life. Today he has a small daughter who he dotes on constantly.
My friend is a body builder, a poet, a singer. His father was all of those same things. He also suffered childhood abuse and grew up in foster care.
A few months ago I asked my friend: why do you think you turned out the way you did and your father turned out the way he did? Similar genes, backgrounds and interests, but so opposite.
He said that his father resented having any personal responsibility, even to his own children. Basically, he was selfish. IMO, that was a choice. I can't feel bad about what that man chose to do because of his background, and I can't feel bad about some kid killing himself over a playstation. Personal choices...really dumb ones

What do you mean by free will?

 

[Thaneem]

Choice. Choosing A over B. My friends father ultimately chose to become an abuser and my friend chose to love his kids instead. It wasnt genes or environment - they had the same of each.
So too, a kid who decides of his own free will that the presence of an ipad is worth so much more than his or her own very existence, to the extend that suicide is the result of not having that ipad, has made a choice that they are 100% responsible for.
I will never feel sorry for some coddled, z-list psychopathic brat for whom suicide or "depression" is nothing more than a big temper tandrum. If life is so miserable without an ipad, do it. End it. Good.

 

[Superdeterminist]

Choice. Choosing A over B. My friends father ultimately chose to become an abuser and my friend chose to love his kids instead. It wasnt genes or environment - they had the same of each.
So too, a kid who decides of his own free will that the presence of an ipad is worth so much more than his or her own very existence, to the extend that suicide is the result of not having that ipad, has made a choice that they are 100% responsible for.
I will never feel sorry for some coddled, z-list psychopathic brat for whom suicide or "depression" is nothing more than a big temper tandrum. If life is so miserable without an ipad, do it. End it. Good.

If neither genes nor environment determine the choices we make, then what does? Also, no two people share the same genes or environment. Even identical twins' genomes ultimately diverge due to epigenetic changes and different mutations over time. Small/microscopic differences in genes or environment could potentially amount to huge macro-level differences between individuals.

 

[Thaneem]

They could, but the simpler explanation IMO is that people make choices. What determines this if not not genes or environment? Self-awareness, or lack thereof.
Even if we are entirely enslaved to our genes or environment, I would say a person who kills themselves over an xbox wasnt fit to live in the first place. Natural selection. I certainly don't want a person who thinks dying over a video game is OK to reproduce.

 

[motel rooms]

This sounds a lot like the tired old "kids these days should toughen up" argument which is total bollocks.

Allow me to repeat this in order to make it clear I'm not some 80-year-old "snowflake hater": I'm just saying that kids deserve realistic parents capable of healthy parenting.

I know the stats just above show child abuse in decline, but I think older generations just didn't deal with it or pretended it wasn't an issue. I see it as uncovering an old wound rather than trying to pretend you're still fine. Outwardly its gonna look like you suddenly got worse, but thats just because you were suffering in silence before.

I think child abuse is a major factor, and not just the kind that counts as a crime. Bad parenting, emotional abuse or neglect, etc... Kids these days have access to resources we never had, and they can reach out to each other like never before. I think they're just more in touch with their pain and trauma. Its not necessarily that its worse than in previous generations, but they actually understand and connect with it better than we did. Its healthy.

I honestly don't see what this has to do with me saying that MANY (=not all) young people's depression is due to unrealistic expectations from life. Btw, are you saying that I wasn't as traumatized & depressed as the kids who suffer abuse today because I was molested in the unenlightened '80s & '90s, so I was less in touch with my pain?

Plus, you know, we've fucking destroyed their planet. War, death, hatred. Every god damn day there's some kind of crisis the likes of which the world has never seen.

Please don't say "we". I don't own a large oil company, I'm not a powerful corrupt politician & deforestation isn't one of my hobbies, you know. I vote Green, I ride a bike & use public transport, I don't fly, I eat food grown locally, the building I live in is insulated & has solar panels & I've never participated in a war in my 40 years on this shitty planet. The average American 10-year-old has already done much more to fuck up the climate & the planet than me.

 

[Superdeterminist]

They could, but the simpler explanation IMO is that people make choices. What determines this if not not genes or environment? Self-awareness, or lack thereof.
Even if we are entirely enslaved to our genes or environment, I would say a person who kills themselves over an xbox wasnt fit to live in the first place. Natural selection. I certainly don't want a person who thinks dying over a video game is warranted to reproduce.

Are we free to decide how much self-awareness we have in each moment? What determines our level of self-awareness at any moment, is it not again a product of genes/environment?

You seem to really hate people who make decisions that you wouldn't.