Would unfiltered, unconditional grace and compassion make you less inclined to CTB?

[exiled]

I am wondering: if you had people in your life, or even just one person, who offered you unconditional love and understanding of your situation, offered to help you as a teammate in this life, and gave you grace for your desire to CTB, would it make you less inclined to go through with your plans? Is it a lack of compassion that is making us suicidal?

For me, my pain is so heavily excruciating and of course is the biggest reason why I'd like out. BUT I have a friend that isn't afraid of me telling him I want to CTB. He isn't afraid to listen to the haunting thoughts that I sometimes have. Hell, he's known when I've had the rope. When I tried to order the SN. When I attempted to steal my neighbor's gun. He didn't run. And I think since I have his unconditional support through this, I am inclined to hang on. It does not take away the pain and I still ultimately need that to stop, but knowing that I can give someone my raw, my ugly, my scary.... it does help. And I wonder how many of us just lack that person who is not afraid to help carry the load, no matter how heavy or terrifying it may seem.

 

[RedHates]

I'm glad you have someone like that in your life. Everyone deserves to have a friend like that. No one in my family has anywhere near "unconditional" love and that goes for a lot of people here too. I'm lucky enough to have 1 friend that will do literally anything to support me. He knows I'm suicidal because he was the only one I trusted enough to tell.

 

[StolenLife]

No because I know that I don't deserve it. And I can't deal with my trauma and paranoia even if there were hundreds of people like that. But I'm happy for you. I hope that person stays in your life.

 

[exiled]

No because I know that I don't deserve it. And I can't deal with my trauma and paranoia even if there were hundreds of people like that. But I'm happy for you. I hope that person stays in your life.

Grace. The word by definition implies undeserved. Though, for what it is worth, I do believe you deserve it. I hope one day somebody gives that to you. My trauma has torn me apart and I have been put through the wringer time and time again, and continue to suffer the consequences of other people hurting me. It wasn't until somebody gave me grace that I put the rope down for a second.

But hey, I get it. CTB just sounds so much more peaceful. Fighting through this hell of a battle is not a necessity nor a requirement. I do hope you get the best fighting chance out there, though.

 

[Takamagahara]

I have maybe one or two people in somewhat similar positions. I've straight up told them I'm going to CTB and, while sad, they replied with understanding.

However, compassion only goes so far. It does nothing to change why I am doing it. It doesn't change my circumstances. It doesn't change the fact that my life feels like one giant coping mechanism.

I care about these people. I am grateful to them. But I cannot bring myself to continue enduring just for their sake.

 

[exiled]

I have maybe one or two people in somewhat similar positions. I've straight up told them I'm going to CTB and, while sad, they replied with understanding.

However, compassion only goes so far. It does nothing to change why I am doing it. It doesn't change my circumstances. It doesn't change the fact that my life feels like one giant coping mechanism.

I care about these people. I am grateful to them. But I cannot bring myself to continue enduring just for their sake.

I understand. Living simply for somebody else doesn't seem worth it honestly. Especially because you are right - compassion can't cure circumstances. But, perhaps that compassion can extend into reckless love, and relentless fight to help you through your situation. And what if with another person on your side unconditionally, SOME of your circumstances COULD be alleviated?

 

[brokeandbroken]

I can say I think it would truly make a difference for me.

 

[exiled]

I can say I think it would truly make a difference for me.

I get it. I'm here if you need a friend; it can make all the difference. Not always but. Maybe it's worth a shot?

 

[KAZ-2Y5]

If I had someone like that in my life who was a true one and unconditionally loving me and supporting me I'd probably try staying honestly. I've never had love though

 

[brokeandbroken]

I get it. I'm here if you need a friend; it can make all the difference. Not always but. Maybe it's worth a shot?

Thank you I appreciate it same to you.

 

[Takamagahara]

I understand. Living simply for somebody else doesn't seem worth it honestly. Especially because you are right - compassion can't cure circumstances. But, perhaps that compassion can extend into reckless love, and relentless fight to help you through your situation. And what if with another person on your side unconditionally, SOME of your circumstances COULD be alleviated?

I understand the overall point that you're trying to make and I don't disagree; certainly, having an unconditionally compassionate social network is a strong and compelling mitigation that can prolong one's life. Perhaps having sufficient mitigation would be enough to help carry someone through their issues to reach the end of their natural lifespan. In that, we are of the same mind.

That said, I feel compelled to point out that I feel that to be a rather meaningless thesis that seems to miss the forest for the trees. Just to speak for myself personally, our fundamental disagreement lies in the value of mitigation in and of itself. Put another way, a life that is necessarily centralized around the management of pain is not a life at all.

I am someone who has no shortage of coping strategies available to them; I am able to attend therapy, and have made multiple good-faith attempts to do so in the past. I have tried meditation and exercise. I have focused on hobbies and cultivating self-growth, utilized art and fiction as avenues of self-expression, opened up to close friends, and generally followed every strategy in the "one day at a time" book--that is, the widely-touted ideology that suicidal people need only focus on making it to the next day.

This is, in a few words, an incredibly exhausting and taxing way to live.

I would liken it to being born with crippling medical conditions, of which I have known a few; people with autoimmune disorders , fibromyalgia, and other debilitating conditions. Certainly, there is a lot of medical mitigation available to these people. With enough mitigation--taking twenty pills a day, restricting activities, watching their diets, or what have you--they can live something vaguely resembling a normal life without their condition. But they can never experience a life without their condition.

And this is where a person's individual values must come into assessment. Are they okay with living a life that merely imitates a normal, painless life? To some people, sure: they'd be okay with living the rest of their lives coping with their condition, and I hope that that is the answer they choose for themselves.

As for me? My personal answer is no. I'm not okay with that.

Surviving is not living.

 

[cloakedbear]

probably, because it's really hard to find people like that haha. most don't understand, and as a result the closest people to me don't understand how to be there for me without being aggressively pro life

 

[exiled]

I understand the overall point that you're trying to make and I don't disagree; certainly, having an unconditionally compassionate social network is a strong and compelling mitigation that can prolong one's life. Perhaps having sufficient mitigation would be enough to help carry someone through their issues to reach the end of their natural lifespan. In that, we are of the same mind.

That said, I feel compelled to point out that I feel that to be a rather meaningless thesis that seems to miss the forest for the trees. Just to speak for myself personally, our fundamental disagreement lies in the value of mitigation in and of itself. Put another way, a life that is necessarily centralized around the management of pain is not a life at all.

I am someone who has no shortage of coping strategies available to them; I am able to attend therapy, and have made multiple good-faith attempts to do so in the past. I have tried meditation and exercise. I have focused on hobbies and cultivating self-growth, utilized art and fiction as avenues of self-expression, opened up to close friends, and generally followed every strategy in the "one day at a time" book--that is, the widely-touted ideology that suicidal people need only focus on making it to the next day.

This is, in a few words, an incredibly exhausting and taxing way to live.

I would liken it to being born with crippling medical conditions, of which I have known a few; people with autoimmune disorders , fibromyalgia, and other debilitating conditions. Certainly, there is a lot of medical mitigation available to these people. With enough mitigation, they can live something vaguely resembling a normal life without their condition. But they can never experience a life without their condition.

And this is where a person's individual values must come into assessment. Are they okay with living a life that merely imitates a normal, painless life? To some people, sure: they'd be okay with living the rest of their lives coping with their condition, and I hope that that is the answer they choose for themselves.

As for me? My personal answer is no. I'm not okay with that.

I understand. Well said. It really is all about what it is worth to you, and I can respect you choosing that you personally are not okay with it. Sounds like you have exhausted a lot of options and I would be tired too. I certainly do not say any of this to come across as a moronic pro-lifer, but just wanted to offer the support. In the end, our conditions are ours to face day in and day out, and we should be able to decide if that is something we want to fight through or not. Of course I hope that more people can have resources to have that fighting chance, but even with resources, you are right: quality of life is the real issue here and you have to be okay with yours. And if you aren't, you aren't. I do wish you the best and for what it's worth, I hope someday you receive a miracle. But of course, to put things into realistic perspective, I don't shame you for your decisions or choices in this life. It is yours to experience millisecond by millisecond, not mine. Choice is yours.

 

[drownll]

I don't think so, but we never know sometimes we meet someone who changes our entire life and view on things.
Personally what would fix 95% of my problems and remove my will to ctb is money. 50k would be enough.

 

[exiled]

I don't think so, but we never know sometimes we meet someone who changes our entire life and view on things.
Personally what would fix 95% of my problems and remove my will to ctb is money. 50k would be enough.

This might be a silly question given that your answer may very well be just survival but, what would you do if you did have 50k? What would change for you? Curious, because I'd like to know what people would do if they were well equipped with the resources they need.

 

[Takamagahara]

I understand. Well said. It really is all about what it is worth to you, and I can respect you choosing that you personally are not okay with it. Sounds like you have exhausted a lot of options and I would be tired too. I certainly do not say any of this to come across as a moronic pro-lifer, but just wanted to offer the support. In the end, our conditions are ours to face day in and day out, and we should be able to decide if that is something we want to fight through or not. Of course I hope that more people can have resources to have that fighting chance, but even with resources, you are right: quality of life is the real issue here and you have to be okay with yours. And if you aren't, you aren't. I do wish you the best and for what it's worth, I hope someday you receive a miracle. But of course, to put things into realistic perspective, I don't shame you for your decisions or choices in this life. It is yours to experience millisecond by millisecond, not mine. Choice is yours.

I also recognize the inherent compassion in your approach. I think the intersection of your viewpoint and mine is a wonderful microcosm about how this community is not pro-suicide, only pro-choice.

Just for future reference, I often ask a question very similar to your original post, but in a different way; one that can be understood by the average normal pro-lifer too. I think it would be useful to you as another illustrative way of broaching the subject of mitigation.

"Would you live in a post-apocalyptic world?"

If World War 3 ends with the planet nuked into ash and you happen to make it out alive and relatively unharmed, our current way of life comes to an end. Humanity from that point on must focus on surviving, not living.

Is merely surviving--experiencing a succession of procedural coping strategies, one at a time--the same as living? That's something everyone has a different tolerance for, and must choose for themselves.

 

[exiled]

I also recognize the inherent compassion in your approach. I think the intersection of your viewpoint and mine is a wonderful microcosm about how this community is not pro-suicide, only pro-choice.

Just for future reference, I often ask a question very similar to your original post, but in a different way; one that can be understood by the average normal pro-lifer too. I think it would be useful to you as another illustrative way of broaching the subject of mitigation.

"Would you live in a post-apocalyptic world?"

If World War 3 ends with the planet nuked into ash and you happen to make it out alive and relatively unharmed, our current way of life comes to an end. Humanity from that point on must focus on surviving, not living.

Is merely surviving the same as living? That's something everyone has a different tolerance for, and must choose for themselves.

Definitely food for thought. I think the framing of that question could throw the average pro-lifer off their game. That's the thing, when twisted and turned in a way that they can understand a level of suffering closer to ours, things change. It truly does just come down to a lack of understanding, and quite honestly a lack of compassion. Pro-lifers tend to be stuck in their ways until a shift happens that personally impacts them.

All that to say, sometimes I feel like a fraud here on SS. Not because I identify with the pro-life movement, but because I really do want to see people fight as much as they can. I know there really is no point to it for some, and I don't ever want to enforce that. I'm not here because I want to save the day, but I cannot help but want to offer some type of compassion to others in hopes that it might spark a percentage of warm and fuzzy feelings that lead to reconsideration of CTB.

I know that seems incredibly selfish and that I just have some hero complex, but that isn't the case. I too have days where I hold onto my rope, closer than other nights. I too feel that it is a card in my back pocket for if I need it.

SS has given me so much community and grace for everything I have gone through, so I do not want to discredit the support behind CTB. It just... is chilling sometimes. How even I can type up a response saying "I wish you the best" when someone talks about CTB. It puts me in such a moral dilemma.

I feel this should be openly talked about on SS; people shouldn't be shamed for their choice, but people also shouldn't be shamed for compassion. Not all of it stems from selfishness, some of it is just the fact that we can relate SO hard to one another, that in trying to convince others that it'll be okay, we are trying to speak that to ourselves. It's so messy. I just want us all to be at peace. I'm such a foolish, silly, moronic girl for that. Peace on earth? What a dummy I am.

 

[saderaser]

It is truly a blessing to have someone like that, but I guess it still won't be enough for those who are extremely depressed I consider myself pretty lucky, my sister is like the kind of person you described and my parents became very understanding after knowing that I might really take my own life if they don't do anything. I don't really have to worry about money for now (no need to work either, just have fun) and they are going to pay for my expensive therapies, but you know what, it was too late.

It's like cancer if it wasn't treated early on, any efforts at the end won't change a thing. It was not about therapies, not about doing chores for me, not about telling jokes nor taking me to fun places. Only if they could understand what I needed when I was a child, only if they didn't choose to hide behind their religion when issues come up, only if they could understand what I have been trying to tell them over and over again, but they never will, and at some point I ran out of patience. Even if my Prince Charming showed up all of the sudden with everything I ever wanted, I still won't stay for a second. I have to escape, no one can change that.

 

[Takamagahara]

All that to say, sometimes I feel like a fraud here on SS. Not because I identify with the pro-life movement, but because I really do want to see people fight as much as they can. I know there really is no point to it for some, and I don't ever want to enforce that. I'm not here because I want to save the day, but I cannot help but want to offer some type of compassion to others in hopes that it might spark a percentage of warm and fuzzy feelings that lead to reconsideration of CTB.

I know that seems incredibly selfish and that I just have some hero complex, but that isn't the case. I too have days where I hold onto my rope, closer than other nights. I too feel that it is a card in my back pocket for if I need it.

SS has given me so much community and grace for everything I have gone through, so I do not want to discredit the support behind CTB. It just... is chilling sometimes. How even I can type up a response saying "I wish you the best" when someone talks about CTB. It puts me in such a moral dilemma.

I feel this should be openly talked about on SS; people shouldn't be shamed for their choice, but people also shouldn't be shamed for compassion. Not all of it stems from selfishness, some of it is just the fact that we can relate SO hard to one another, that in trying to convince others that it'll be okay, we are trying to speak that to ourselves. It's so messy. I just want us all to be at peace. I'm such a foolish, silly, moronic girl for that. Peace on earth? What a dummy I am.

Though I won't claim to be some kind of pillar or prominent advocate of the SS community, I'll be the first to say that I feel there is a place for your particular brand of compassion here. I'll also be the first to say that it's one that can only be applied very, very selectively, and that I respect your decision to engage in such an inherently uphill endeavor, though I can't help but pity your compulsion all the same.

Generally, the mere presence of suicidal thoughts and ideation already represents a thorough, complex, multi-level breakdown in someone's support systems and their threshold for coping mechanisms. Most people who live normal, happy, stable lives--people to whom the general course of the world still makes sense or who still hold hope in their futures--don't come here. As a natural consequence of this, I'm willing to point out that the culture of SS is to automatically assume that everyone here has already reached or exceeded their breaking point; someone who requires oxycodone to mitigate their pain is going to scoff at being offered OTC Tylenol. There's a reason why we're here, in such a heavily censored and relentlessly attacked community, as opposed to, say, /r/SuicideWatch, or any number of other suicide support communities that already strive to present people with alternate choices from CTB.

At the end of the day, as far as I can tell, SS is the only community anywhere where the decision to CTB is met with support. The people here are at the bottom rung of the ladder.

Yet, with all of that said, I also don't think your efforts are misguided. Some people here are genuinely in this community as a coping mechanism itself. The entire Recovery section of this forum speaks volumes about how some people only need to feel that they are heard in order to begin seeing the light at the end of their tunnels, and these are the people to whom your compassion will be invaluable, worth its weight in gold. So, again, there is a real place and a real effect to your compassion. It's just naturally going to be very difficult to see tangible results, and you are more likely to (gently) butt heads with other members.

 

[permanent_solution]

No, but if the whole world behaved like what you put in the title, then yes, maybe, probably, most likely, i dont know. It would certainly be a lot nicer. And I'd be a little happier. Still, i would kill myself. That is inevitable, it seems.

 

[wristcutangel]

probably, but i don't think anyone would ever give me that type of love. i struggle to even believe it exists.

 

[enough of this]

Definitely food for thought. I think the framing of that question could throw the average pro-lifer off their game. That's the thing, when twisted and turned in a way that they can understand a level of suffering closer to ours, things change. It truly does just come down to a lack of understanding, and quite honestly a lack of compassion. Pro-lifers tend to be stuck in their ways until a shift happens that personally impacts them.

All that to say, sometimes I feel like a fraud here on SS. Not because I identify with the pro-life movement, but because I really do want to see people fight as much as they can. I know there really is no point to it for some, and I don't ever want to enforce that. I'm not here because I want to save the day, but I cannot help but want to offer some type of compassion to others in hopes that it might spark a percentage of warm and fuzzy feelings that lead to reconsideration of CTB.

I know that seems incredibly selfish and that I just have some hero complex, but that isn't the case. I too have days where I hold onto my rope, closer than other nights. I too feel that it is a card in my back pocket for if I need it.

SS has given me so much community and grace for everything I have gone through, so I do not want to discredit the support behind CTB. It just... is chilling sometimes. How even I can type up a response saying "I wish you the best" when someone talks about CTB. It puts me in such a moral dilemma.

I feel this should be openly talked about on SS; people shouldn't be shamed for their choice, but people also shouldn't be shamed for compassion. Not all of it stems from selfishness, some of it is just the fact that we can relate SO hard to one another, that in trying to convince others that it'll be okay, we are trying to speak that to ourselves. It's so messy. I just want us all to be at peace. I'm such a foolish, silly, moronic girl for that. Peace on earth? What a dummy I am.

You're hardly a dummy for wanting Peace On Earth. If we had that, I don't think there would be nearly this number of people leaving the planet.