Will Trump win the noble peace prize by bombarding Iran and toppling their regime?

[noname223]

Not Sure what to think of it. It is impressive how Israel kills the Iranian military leaders. In general Israel has insanely good intelligence Services. You have to remind yourself how small the country/population is. Maybe Israel's intelligence is dependent on the US but that probably counts vice versa.

Are they war mongerers? Yes
Do they undermine Western values and make us Look like hypocrites? Yes
But their bombing led to the fall of Assad.

I would never defend the genocide. The nightmarish war crimes in Gaza.

I had the discussion with my friends. Can you Look at the actions from Israel seperately? Probably not. But I would Not equate Them. And they also kill civilians in Iran. But wouldn't the Fall of the Mullah regime might be something good. Or at least has the potential of something good. What Do you think?

And the title of the thread is of course irony.

 

[nobeertonight]

Not Sure what to think of it. It is impressive how Israel kills the Iranian military leaders. In general Israel has insanely good intelligence Services. You have to remind yourself how small the country/population is. Maybe Israel's intelligence is dependent on the US but that probably counts vice versa.

Are they war mongerers? Yes
Do they undermine Western values and make us Look like hypocrites? Yes
But their bombing led to the fall of Assad.

I would never defend the genocide. The nightmarish war crimes in Gaza.

I had the discussion with my friends. Can you Look at the actions from Israel seperately? Probably not. But I would Not equate Them. And they also kill civilians in Iran. But wouldn't the Fall of the Mullah regime might be something good. Or at least has the potential of something good. What Do you think?

And the title of the thread is of course irony.

If you want to be even more disgusted you should look up the history of the first intifadas, allegedly one of Israel's PMs at the time suggested breaking the arms of kids throwing rocks at tanks.

They are trying to mask themselves saying they want to overthrow a regime and to their right a lot of Iranian people are pro-Israel because of how much they hate their government, but they are really only looking for their own gain here, plus they can't win in a long term conflict, yes they are superior in terms of intelligence but a country that small against one that big simply lacks the resources, look at Russia v Ukraine, Ukraine is getting all of the most advanced western technologies but will still lose because Russia has potentially infinite resources.

Plus no democracy has ever spawned from a foreign initiated conflict, this is exactly what the US was doing in Latin America when it was overthrowing comunist government "for the good of the oppressed"

As for Assad, it's uncertain wether Israel had a role in that, the whole Syrian conflict is a giant bag of worms. Al Joulani probably did have a western backing in exchange for reassurances regarding the new regime he will instaurate.

 

[noname223]

If you want to be even more disgusted you should look up the history of the first intifadas, allegedly one of Israel's PMs at the time suggested breaking the arms of kids throwing rocks at tanks.

They are trying to mask themselves saying they want to overthrow a regime and to their right a lot of Iranian people are pro-Israel because of how much they hate their government, but they are really only looking for their own gain here, plus they can't win in a long term conflict, yes they are superior in terms of intelligence but a country that small against one that big simply lacks the resources, look at Russia v Ukraine, Ukraine is getting all of the most advanced western technologies but will still lose because Russia has potentially infinite resources.

Plus no democracy has ever spawned from a foreign initiated conflict, this is exactly what the US was doing in Latin America when it was overthrowing comunist government "for the good of the oppressed"

As for Assad, it's uncertain wether Israel had a role in that, the whole Syrian conflict is a giant bag of worms. Al Joulani probably did have a western backing in exchange for reassurances regarding the new regime he will instaurate.

It is clear neither the US nor Israel are doing it for democratic norms and human rights. I would never pretend that. Under Trump the US even are not even pretending that. They are more open about their goals in the region. It is not democracy export anymore.

Of course Israel is playing a charade. But it does not really matter to me when we look at the outcome and the measures they had to take to achieve their goals. For example, the ratio of how many civilians get murdered is for me important.

I think though Israel is way more powerful than Iran. Especially, when the US backs them. (even if the US do it only lackluster). They just had to topple the government. According to media reports Israel had the strategic opportunity to kill Khamenei but Trump did not give them the go. If they killed him the Iranian regime might collapsed. I don't think there would necessarily still be a war between Israel and Iran if that happened. I would not compare the conflict with Ukraine/Russia.

 

[EternalShore]

It's sad that we kicked out Assad tho because even tho he wasn't very great, he protected minorities and didn't lead an Islamic government that was allied to ISIS at 1 point like the new guys are~ >_<

It'd be neat if the Iranian government fell tho~ :) just that I hope we could swoop in and pick up the pieces super duper fast, so something like ISIS doesn't rise up! >_< So that we could free them from all the sharia restrictions of the Iranian government~ :) Plus, it'd be great to take out another one of the Axis of Evil before they get nuclear weapons like North Korea (as they're trying to build rn)~ >_< they've been trying to build them for decades, but North Korea was too~

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

It would be so ironic if someone won the Nobel peace prize by waging war. That's nuclear Gandhi levels of irony.

 

[DarkRange55]

Comparison of Iran and Israel Military Strengths (2025)

Comparison of two world military powers in side-by-side format.

www.globalfirepower.com

The story behind the noble peace prize is a little ironic (as is the creation of the gatling gun).


A tad dated

 

[tormentedhusk]

Not Sure what to think of it. It is impressive how Israel kills the Iranian military leaders. In general Israel has insanely good intelligence Services. You have to remind yourself how small the country/population is. Maybe Israel's intelligence is dependent on the US but that probably counts vice versa.

Are they war mongerers? Yes
Do they undermine Western values and make us Look like hypocrites? Yes
But their bombing led to the fall of Assad.

I would never defend the genocide. The nightmarish war crimes in Gaza.

I had the discussion with my friends. Can you Look at the actions from Israel seperately? Probably not. But I would Not equate Them. And they also kill civilians in Iran. But wouldn't the Fall of the Mullah regime might be something good. Or at least has the potential of something good. What Do you think?

And the title of the thread is of course irony.

no chance in hell that will happen

(if he actually strikes iran)

 

[SVEN]

Well, if Sir Anthony Charles Lynton (Blood on My Hands) Blair and former President Bush can be nominated ...
Well, if Sir Anthony Charles Lynton (Blood on My Hands) Blair and former President Bush can be nominated ...

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

The whole idea of spreading democracy should be viewed for what it is which is feel good rhetoric to get the plebs onboard with what ever the government is going to do anyway.

The continuity of agenda to topple the middle east has been steady from Bush Sr, Clinton, W Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden, Trump. The only thing people are voting for is who delivers the talking points.

I don't know much about the Iranian regime. My understanding is the west had a role fomenting the Islamic Revolution and installing it to begin with. Before that, in the 1970's Iran was a modern state ruled via a monarchy. Europeans used to backpack through Iran to Afghanistan on the hippy silk road just for fun and to sample the hash in relative safety. There's a few travel channels on youtube and Iran still looks pretty normal.

I'm not sure what Israel wants out of winning this war. What seems obvious is that Israel intelligence has totally compromised Iran to be able to assassinate it's generals, assemble and deploy drones within their borders and conduct air raids on critical targets. Iran is a one trick pony with it's rockets. While Israel the country is small, the jewish diaspora across the world some of which have levers of influence and power is something Iran lacks. Most people have never knowingly interacted with a Persian. All we know of them is their leaders. Jews we know as actors, artists, musicians, CEOs, doctors, politicians both liked and disliked but to the western mind Iranians are the scary "other".

So Israel will probably "win" this whatever that ends up looking like. Probably similar to Gaza, Iraq, Libya, Lebanon and Syria but we will finally be "safe" having accomplished the goal of spreading democracy.

 

[Pessimist]

As long as Israel thinks Iran wants to destroy it with nuclear weapons, the war will not end. Iran must act responsibly and announce the dismantling of its nuclear program. Otherwise their regime is not going to survive.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

As long as Israel thinks Iran wants to destroy it with nuclear weapons, the war will not end. Iran must act responsibly and announce the dismantling of its nuclear program. Otherwise their regime is not going to survive.

These are only excuses. If Iran actually does dismantle their nuclear program, Israel will just find another excuse. Every reason Israel gave is an excuse for them to wage war and acquire power disregarding any kind of human sensibility of the places they take their war to. It's what authoritarian megalomaniacs do.

 

[Pessimist]

These are only excuses. If Iran actually does dismantle their nuclear program, Israel will just find another excuse. Every reason Israel gave is an excuse for them to wage war and acquire power disregarding any kind of human sensibility of the places they take their war to. It's what authoritarian megalomaniacs do.

I understand the cynicism but I don't think it's accurate. The official Israeli position is that Iran wants to destroy Israel with nuclear weapons and kill everyone. I live in Israel and most Israeli Jews truly believe that the Iranian goal is basically a Second Holocaust. And the Iranians really feed into that propaganda with things like the doomsday clock for Israel's end.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

I understand the cynicism but I don't think it's accurate. The official Israeli position is that Iran wants to destroy Israel with nuclear weapons and kill everyone. I live in Israel and most Israeli Jews truly believe that the Iranian goal is basically a Second Holocaust. And the Iranians really feed into that propaganda with things like the doomsday clock for Israel's end.

The official position and the masses are all controllable things. The heads that actually control those decisions just want more power. They couldn't care less about anything else.

But hey, maybe you're right, maybe Iran will say they stop making nuclear stuff and then Israel stops the war...or at least takes the war elsewhere. We'll see.

 

[Pessimist]

The official position and the masses are all controllable things. The heads that actually control those decisions just want more power. They couldn't care less about anything else.

But hey, maybe you're right, maybe Iran will say they stop making nuclear stuff and then Israel stops the war...or at least takes the war elsewhere. We'll see.

I can't see Iran giving up on their nuclear program.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

I can't see Iran giving up on their nuclear program.

Well then...umm...not yay?

 

[Pessimist]

Well then...umm...not yay?

Honestly I'm used to hearing bombs and it doesn't bother me too much. I'm more concerned about the moral and ideological aspects of the entire thing. And also living in a militaristic society really sucks.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

Honestly I'm used to hearing bombs and it doesn't bother me too much. I'm more concerned about the moral and ideological aspects of the entire thing. And also living in a militaristic society really sucka.

Yeah the whole thing is just a huge clusterfuck for everyone involved, even for the few that are profiting from it. I find specially sad for the innocents that are suffering and don't even have a chance of getting out of this mess.

 

[noname223]

Of course Trump is a peacemaker he hates war and would never start one. I hope some MAGA people wake up now. Nethanyahu played Trump like a fiddle. Oh well. Giving up Ukraine is okay because it wastes tax money? But starting an ofFensive war against a country that did not attack the US is okay? How much billions will this war cost? I hope it won't be a literal invasion. I think in general I am now more critical against this. Toppling the Iranian regime will cause a lot of chaos. It is unlikely it will play out like Syria.

 

[karakoltriste]

I understand the cynicism but I don't think it's accurate. The official Israeli position is that Iran wants to destroy Israel with nuclear weapons and kill everyone. I live in Israel and most Israeli Jews truly believe that the Iranian goal is basically a Second Holocaust. And the Iranians really feed into that propaganda with things like the doomsday clock for Israel's end.

Excuse me? The second Holocaust is already underway. Israel is doing it to the Palestinians. It's Israel that has to stop

 

[Chinaski]

And they also kill civilians in Iran. But wouldn't the Fall of the Mullah regime might be something good. Or at least has the potential of something good. What Do you think?

Was the lraq War good because it deposed Saddam Hussein? I guess so if you're a hawkish psychopath or just a complete fucking idiot.

I can't see Iran giving up on their nuclear program.

Iran were literally at the negotiating table when a country with nuclear capabilities wiped out the actual negotiator, why the fuck should they maintain any interest in a non-proliferation commitment at this point, why the fuck are so many people still maintaining even a smidgen of justification for the aggressive actions of a US satellite state without a hint of embarrassment and then pivoting to uwu smol bean when faced with the prospect of reaping what they sow

 

[sinfonia]

Excuse me? The second Holocaust is already underway. Israel is doing it to the Palestinians. It's Israel that has to stop

He didn't say that's what he believes, he said that's what most israeils believe (that Iran wnats to commit a second holocaust).

 

[Pessimist]

Excuse me? The second Holocaust is already underway. Israel is doing it to the Palestinians. It's Israel that has to stop

1. What do you want from me? That's the Jewish-Israeli position. People have this crazy idea that Iran is going to get nuclear weapons and murder millions.
2. While the war crimes in Gaza could be described as genocidal, calling it a "Holocaust" would be very inaccurate. The Gaza Health Ministry says 55k Palestinians were killed in the bombing campaign, without distinguishing between civilians and combatants. The Holocaust, on the other hand, wasn't a bombing campaign. Millions were murdered through mass shootings and poison gas in extermination camps.

 

[karakoltriste]

1. What do you want from me? That's the Jewish-Israeli position. People have this crazy idea that Iran is going to get nuclear weapons and murder millions.
2. While the war crimes in Gaza could be described as genocidal, calling it a "Holocaust" would be very inaccurate. The Gaza Health Ministry says 55k Palestinians were killed in the bombing campaign, without distinguishing between civilians and combatants. The Holocaust, on the other hand, wasn't a bombing campaign. Millions were murdered through mass shootings and poison gas in extermination camps.

Why? The definition of Holocaust is "a massive slaughter," regardless of the method used. The word doesn't refer only to the genocide perpetrated by the Nazis.

 

[Pessimist]

Why? The definition of Holocaust is "a massive slaughter," regardless of the method used. The word doesn't refer only to the genocide perpetrated by the Nazis.

 

[Chinaski]

View attachment 170009

Arguing as to whether the current genocide which has taken the lives of more than 50000 civilians, many of them children, perpetrated by a satellite state and presided over by actual war criminals, can actually be described as a "Holocaust" because this significant death toll is too low, please can you tell me how many children have to be killed or maimed during an act of ongoing ethnic cleansing before we can stop pretending it isn't what it is

 

[Pessimist]

Arguing as to whether the current genocide which has taken the lives of more than 50000 civilians, many of them children, perpetrated by a satellite state and presided over by actual war criminals, can actually be described as a "Holocaust" because this significant death toll is too low, please can you tell me how many children have to be killed or maimed during an act of ongoing ethnic cleansing before we can stop pretending it isn't what it is

1. You're putting words into my mouth. I also think the death toll is too high, but I don't like the irresponsible use of words like "Holocaust" and "Nazis".
2. It would actually be better if Israel became a true US vassal state. This way America can actually restrain Israel and prevent unnecessary conflicts.

 

[karakoltriste]

1. You're putting words into my mouth. I also think the death toll is too high, but I don't like the irresponsible use of words like "Holocaust" and "Nazis".
2. It would actually be better if Israel became a true US vassal state. This way America can actually restrain Israel and prevent unnecessary conflicts.

why is irresponsible?

 

[Chinaski]

1. You're putting words into my mouth. I also think the death toll is too high, but I don't like the irresponsible use of words like "Holocaust" and "Nazis".
2. It would actually be better if Israel became a true US vassal state. This way America can actually restrain Israel and prevent unnecessary conflicts.

1) it's not irresponsible to use the word holocaust to define a holocaust, Israel does not have ownership over the word and if zionists are upset by its invocation they should perhaps not perpetrate actual genocide

2) it is, and they don't

 

[Pessimist]

View attachment 170015
why is irresponsible?

it's not irresponsible to use the word holocaust to define a holocaust, Israel does not have ownership over the word and if zionists are upset by its invocation they should perhaps not perpetrate actual genocide

It's very irresponsible and historically illiterate. It's closer to the bombing of Dresden, which was a war crime but not a "Holocaust". And historically speaking, the most violent bombing campaigns, including Operation Meetinghouse (100k killed in a single night) and the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (hundreds of thousands killed), were actually committed by the anti-Nazis. Crazy how things aren't black and white.

 

[Chinaski]

It's very irresponsible and historically illiterate. It's closer to the bombing of Dresden, which was a war crime but not a "Holocaust". And historically speaking, the most violent bombing campaigns, including Operation Meetinghouse (100k killed in a single night) and the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (hundreds of thousands killed), were actually committed by the anti-Nazis. Crazy how things aren't black and white.

You're talking in terms of numbers only, not the motivation. The bombing of Dresden was not a genocide.

While I'm here l will state how impressed l am by those who find the actions of the state of lsrael to be more palatable than your average non-psychopath to also feign superiority over their presentation of nuanced thinking, to loftily condescend towards those who have seen an actual live-streamed genocide play out for over twelve months and find it absolutely horrifying as if this position is somehow naive and "historically illiterate", you're here playing semantics over whether or not the word "holocaust" should be used to describe a systemic mass killing with the aim of complete ethnic annihilation perpetrated by war criminals with the full throated support of western governments and media outriders, personally I'm fine with the use of the word "holocaust" here, especially so given it's the key word zionists continually hide behind when justifying their savagery.