Discussion Why not cyanide?

[Ghost2211]

I just don't really buy how you could know that

Science, read some.

 

[NotWhatIExpected]

Science, read some.

Isn't cyanide poisoning a form of hypoxia?

Histotoxic hypoxia - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Ghost2211]

Isn't cyanide poisoning a form of hypoxia?

Histotoxic hypoxia - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

seizures, apnea, and cardiac arrest hurt like complete hell even if it is only a few seconds. I'm honestly too stoned to pull up any real research right now, but you are more than welcome to do your own research.

Cyanide poisoning - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[NotWhatIExpected]

seizures, apnea, and cardiac arrest hurt like complete hell even if it is only a few seconds. I'm honestly too stoned to pull up any real research right now, but you are more than welcome to do your own research.

Cyanide poisoning - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I feel like you don't know that for sure

It seems to me like it wouldn't

There's a lot of variables though

And that's without even mentioning the possibility of cyanide working a lot better in some cases than others

 

[Jumper Geo]

I have 1kg of cyanide, but the seller is o Ky selling by 50kg now, because then his incomplete's his 50kg containers.

Cyanide is not easy to obtain as far as I know, I rather go SN....

Cyanide burns and that's a bitch... Plus who guarantees? Imagine waking up with a hole in your stomach .... Or I dunno.... Screw that.... Screw painful ways to go....

I think I would prefer cyanide as it seems to be a guaranteed way out but I can't obtain it in Europe I am new so I can't message anyone but I hope you can give me a few hints where I can obtain it when I have messages enabled. Cheers Geo

 

[Homecoming]

For as far as I know, cyanide is peaceful compared to sodium azide !

I read that some people die agonizing deaths with cyanide but another's get relatively peaceful deaths from it. So it depends from what I've read.

Hmm... why so contradictory?

 

[CSSLAVE]

I have 1kg of cyanide, but the seller is o Ky selling by 50kg now, because then his incomplete's his 50kg containers.

Cyanide is not easy to obtain as far as I know, I rather go SN....

Cyanide burns and that's a bitch... Plus who guarantees? Imagine waking up with a hole in your stomach .... Or I dunno.... Screw that.... Screw painful ways to go....

Can you PM me the source? Appreciate the help!

 

[Aap]

...Probably because one starts with "as far as I know."

Read accounts of US gas chamber executions and then read accounts of the Nazi gas chamber executions, and then report back which of the two is more accurate.

 

[Umbrellaterm]

Does anybody know why there is no suffocation during SN method and suffocation during cyanide method? Both poisons induce hypoxia (hypoxemic in case of SN and histotoxic in case of cyanide), but hypoxia itself does not cause feel of suffocation.

I'd really want to know why this is too. Fascinating.

 

[Aap]

The premise of the question is false.

 

[Umbrellaterm]

The premise of the question is false.

Can you elaborate on that please?

 

[Aap]

Words, such as "suffocation," are used without a precise medical meaning. While both ultimately interfere with oxygen utilization, mitochondrial ATP uncoupled in the case of CN and oxygen transport in the case of SN, the "feeling of suffocation" anyone who has held their breath knows is directly and indirectly due to increasing CO2 concentrations in the blood.

Neither CN or SN cause this feeling to a great extent, though both cause "suffocation" only in the broadest sense that they interfere with O2 at some point in the process. CN poisoning information posted in this thread is largely the result of what people see in movies and is inaccurate in many posts (e.g. it is nearly instant, painless, makes one feel like they are suffocating, etc. p)

 

[Gnip]

Just gather 500 to 1,000 apple seeds, cherry and/or peach pits, crush the liquid out of them or pulverize them into a lethal paste. What are prolife fuckwits gonna do? Ban apples, cherries and peaches?

 

[Homecoming]

I think that Cyanide definitely kills you much, much faster than SN (within minutes of lethal dose ingestion 100% of the time, despite of severe and intense pain and burning sensation in your throat, heart, and stomach)!

 

[Umbrellaterm]

Neither CN or SN cause this feeling to a great extent, though both cause "suffocation" only in the broadest sense that they interfere with O2 at some point in the process.

You seem educated in this field or perhaps in biology in general but your answer seems a little diffuse, maybe understandably so.

I've seen countless posts where the SN ingestion leads to the gasping of air. Isn't this to be viewed as a type of suffocating , or at the very least the feeling of suffocation?

Words, such as "suffocation," are used without a precise medical meaning. While both ultimately interfere

What is the precise medical meaning (in this context ?
I don't understand what you mean specifically by the sentence "holding your breath."

I think that Cyanide definitely kills you much, much faster than SN (within minutes of lethal dose ingestion 100% of the time, despite of severe and intense pain and burning sensation in your throat, heart, and stomach)!

No doubt. Although it seems like SN gives a less blunt transition.

 

[Aap]

My point is suffocation is not really a medical term, and certainly not a precise medical term. Asphyxia would be used to describe hypoxia due to a restriction in breathing. The dictionary definition of suffocate:
Definition of suffocate
transitive verb
1a(1) : to stop the respiration of (as by strangling or asphyxiation)
(2) : to deprive of oxygen
b : to make uncomfortable by want of fresh air
2 : to impede or stop the development of

Used in the vernacular, if you ask most people to imagine or describe what "suffocation" feels like, they will imagine either holding their breath for an extended period of time, having their head in a plastic bag, choking, etc. These sensation of "suffocation" is not due to a lack of oxygen, but rather to a buildup of CO2.

I'm trying to answer the question I assume people are asking. Does SN intoxication produce the same feeling that one would encounter were they to be unable to breathe? The answer is no in the same manner inert gas exit bag does not either.

Anemic hypoxia or histotoxic hypoxia do not generally cause an increase in pCO2 in the blood (unless at a terminal state when the diaphragm ceases activity or is limited). Increased respiratory drive (tachypnea) is seen with many different conditions or drugs (asprin overdose, stimulant usage, etc) and does not mean one is experiencing the feeling of suffocation. I'm not sure what posts you are describing, what stage of death the person was in (conscious or unconscious), and whether they are first or fifth hand accounts.

The question was asked why does SN not cause suffocation but CN does (or vice versa). I'm stating while both interfere with different stages of oxygen transport or utilization, neither cause massive increases in pCO2, and neither produce the feeling almost everyone associates with suffocation.

 

[Umbrellaterm]

My point is suffocation is not really a medical term, and certainly not a precise medical term. Asphyxia would be used to describe hypoxia due to a restriction in breathing. The dictionary definition of suffocate:
Definition of suffocate
transitive verb
1a(1) : to stop the respiration of (as by strangling or asphyxiation)
(2) : to deprive of oxygen
b : to make uncomfortable by want of fresh air
2 : to impede or stop the development of

Used in the vernacular, if you ask most people to imagine or describe what "suffocation" feels like, they will imagine either holding their breath for an extended period of time, having their head in a plastic bag, choking, etc. These sensation of "suffocation" is not due to a lack of oxygen, but rather to a buildup of CO2.

I'm trying to answer the question I assume people are asking. Does SN intoxication produce the same feeling that one would encounter were they to be unable to breathe? The answer is no in the same manner inert gas exit bag does not either.

Anemic hypoxia or histotoxic hypoxia do not generally cause an increase in pCO2 in the blood (unless at a terminal state when the diaphragm ceases activity. Increased respiratory drive (tachypnea) is seen with many different conditions or drugs (asprin overdose, stimulant usage, etc) and does not mean one is experiencing the feeling of suffocation. I'm not sure what posts you are describing, what stage of death the person was in (conscious or unconscious), and whether they are first or fifth hand accounts.

The question was asked why does SN not cause suffocation but CN does (or vice versa). I'm stating while both interfere with different stages of oxygen transport or utilization, neither cause massive increases in pCO2, and neither produce the feeling almost everyone associates with suffocation.

I'm pretty sure I've definitely seen CN do.
The foaming mouth?

 

[Aap]

I'm not sure what you are arguing. How many cyanide deaths have you seen? My guess is in the zero to one range. If you define foaming at the mouth as suffocation, then more power to you. I agree cyanide is not a peaceful death in many cases

 

[Umbrellaterm]

If you mix the cyanide (KCN) with any acid, you get HCN-gas. If you take a deep breath from it, you are instantly dead.

It's the same thing that happens in the stomach, KCN+gastric acid=HCN. It'll take a little bit longer.

It doesn't even have to be KCN.
Potassium ferrocyanide is enough from what I have read.

 

[Homecoming]

Is fasting a must if I want to take KCN orally? @Aap

 

[Umbrellaterm]

Is fasting a must if I want to take KCN orally? @Aap

Probably if you wanna shorten any unecesarry pain and especially the time it takes to fall unconscious.

If you have something in your stomach, the absorption will be slower, hence, slowing the cyanide.
I believe it's a question of seconds with cyanide though unlike SN where it's about 10+ minutes.

 

[Aap]

No, but fasting and taking with a slightly acidic drink, like lemonade, will speed the process

 

[Umbrellaterm]

No, but fasting and taking with a slightly acidic drink, like lemonade, will speed the process

What about coke or lemonade is ideal? Can you name a specific brand of lemonade?

If you had the choice, would you die by HCN or KCN @Aap

 

[Homecoming]

What about coke or lemonade is ideal? Can you name a specific brand of lemonade?

If you had the choice, would you die by HCN or KCN @Aap

I think lemonade, orange juice, or any acidic drink is good, regardless of the brand.

HCN is dangerous to other people and may kill them, please don't use HCN!

 

[Umbrellaterm]

HCN is dangerous to other people and may kill them, please don't use HCN!

It's very toxic and should never be used outside and requires a proper fume hood with a bubbler in a laboratory!

I do not exhort nor condone any of the information or practical uses of substances above.
I'm simply discussing the substance for educational purposes.

 

[LastFlowers]

Imagine intense burning in stomach and suffocate (even though you are breathing)

View attachment 9527

Yea every case of a cyanide poisoning I've heard of was not pleasant. But given this explanation, can someone please tell me why SN would be any different? I am very afraid of feeling suffocated in particular.

 

[Umbrellaterm]

Yea every case of a cyanide poisoning I've heard of was not pleasant. But given this explanation, can someone please tell me why SN would be any different? I am very afraid of feeling suffocated in particular.

They work differently. They are two different types of salts with different mechanisms. Cyanides work with the ATP while Sodium nitrite oxidize the iron component of red blood cells (hemoglobin), rendering them unable to carry oxygen.

 

[LastFlowers]

They work differently. They are two different types of salts with different mechanisms. Cyanides work with the ATP while SN work with the hemaglobin.

Could you explain further why this makes a difference, for a lay person..?

 

[Umbrellaterm]

Could you explain further why this makes a difference, for a lay person..?

Isn't it self explanatory? It's two different ways of killing you!

The thing is there are very few well documented reports of cyanide out publicly, if any, which makes it hard to determine if it's a peaceful way to go. Most evidence suggest it's painless but some say it's a painful 10 minutes (around that time).

SN on the other hand is widely used today and more and more people are documenting their ctb which makes it easier to decide the scoring in peaceful leave.
Right now there's hard evidence you are rendered unconscious pretty quickly with SN and therefore do not feel dying (in the seen cases here on the forums for example. Be advised, this is not a guarantee at all. Everyone react differently) Even faster is the process with the regime and added medications. Especially meto and propranolol.

 

[LastFlowers]

Isn't it self explanatory? It's two different ways of killing you!

The thing is there are very few well documented reports of cyanide out publicly, if any, which makes it hard to determine if it's a peaceful way to go. Most evidence suggest it's painless but some say it's a painful 10 minutes.

SN on the other hand is widely used today and more and more people are documenting their ctb which makes it easier to decide the scoring in peaceful leave.
Right now there's hard evidence you are rendered unconscious pretty quickly with SN and therefore do not feel dying. Even faster is the process with the regime and added medications. Especially meto and propranolol.

I appreciate you responding but..no, it's really not. (No need to insult my intelligence.) Because many methods that kill us by completely different mechanisms can still result in very similar side effects and suffering before death occurs. Just as many diseases share symptoms and we are still essentially talking about a chemical poisoning vs a chemical poisoning here.

Do you have any links to the studies or cases even if they are far and few between? Or the sources where you got your information and conclusion from? If you don't mind. No rush.
(I just can't take an armchair chemist's word for things, I think everyone here should be cautious in deeming anyone's comment a quick fact.)
The only main cases off the top of my head for cyanide would be the Tylenol poisonings, which I recall were not pleasant by those who witnessed them.
I know the cases of SN here speak to the efficacy and lack of overall suffering but I think those have to be taken with a grain of salt (no pun intended) so I am much more interested in the facts of how one works versus the other, and not in one sentence only. I would like to know of where I can find that information where it could possibly be gleaned from, even by someone with no background knowledge of this type of thing.

Meto and propranolol..so without these things, would SN's appeal decrease in comparison to cyanide or other forms of poisoning?