Discussion Why do some people have community while others are virtually alone?

[dying_kwik2000]

Is there a reason why some people are ignored while other people are noticed and appreciated by the people in their lives?

I'm trying to understand why I've basically had no friends most of my life and felt invisible, alone or like a burden.

Am I not opening up enough? But why do I feel ignored when I open up?

I always feel like I act like a therapist to other people while people don't really know much about me.

I'm trying so hard not to cry because of this. Tears are coming from my right eye. 👁

I don't know why it hurts so much. I remember when I was like eight or nine there was this Barbie Diaries computer game I loved and there was this challenge when you had to make a concert. I would always make the light green and play a song they had called 'Invisible' because I felt like I related to it so deeply.

 

[thegreatminderaser]

i wonder the same thing. i try to open up as much as i can, but then i feel like i'm too much. people are interested, then lose interest. do you have social anxiety?

 

[nocatwaslost]

I know for a fact that I already felt lonely as a kid/teenager and know pretty well why I feel this way. Maybe if you look back in your biography you can also find some reasons/events when it started? Does not have to stretch that far back, but it helps to maybe reflect when the feeling started.

Doesn't help in this current moment, because I also try to open up and talk to people, get in contact but it seems I can't catch a break.

I guess we can only try to stay open, talk to people and just hope that some suitable human being will stroll along.

 

[venerated-vader]

I think in large part its about demeanor and consistency. There are things we can't see in ourselves that others can, and the facade we put on when we first meet someone (which is something everyone does) can't last forever when you're battling severe depression and mental health struggles. Same thing happens if you have a chronic illness; it takes a handful of 'I can't hang out's or 'maybe we can talk later's for someone to decide to invest their time elsewhere. Of course, I'm a bit of a pessimist, so I want to make it clear I'm speaking from my own experience and perceptions.

I don't know if you've ever had a friend who was also going through something, whether it be situational problems (like grief / family problems) or mental health struggles! But in my experience, I've noticed when my friends get depressed. They get quiet, harder to reach, etc. And it's not their fault; I know what good people they are, and so I'm around when they're feeling better. And vice versa! More importantly though, I understand what it's like to feel like that, and I usually can't wait for them to feel better so I can chat with them again.

However, people who don't know you and have no frame of reference for depression won't understand. So they carry on, and we don't go with them.

IMO, there are people worth spending time with and there are people who aren't ever going to understand or empathize with your experiences. The latter is the vast majority of people. And if you find yourself playing therapist with people, or you feel like you're giving more than you're getting, a lot of the time that might mean that you're just giving too much to the wrong people.

And those who might understand, might be going through their own series of struggles, and if you meet at the wrong time, the ability to connect is inherently damaged because you're both not well enough to invest energy into each other.

Only way to get through it is to keep meeting people. You'll find the right kinda folx eventually!

 

[StrawberryBlood]

I feel this. Especially while experiencing therapistification (a word I just invented) in tandem. I think the two are linked. I think our souls are too big for most people. We feel too deeply, see too much. Our pain and joy are both too vast to fit into the tiny, painful, crushing boxes that most people revel in. Or maybe that's just me.

 

[Oreki]

I think in large part its about demeanor and consistency. There are things we can't see in ourselves that others can, and the facade we put on when we first meet someone (which is something everyone does) can't last forever when you're battling severe depression and mental health struggles. Same thing happens if you have a chronic illness; it takes a handful of 'I can't hang out's or 'maybe we can talk later's for someone to decide to invest their time elsewhere. Of course, I'm a bit of a pessimist, so I want to make it clear I'm speaking from my own experience and perceptions.

I don't know if you've ever had a friend who was also going through something, whether it be situational problems (like grief / family problems) or mental health struggles! But in my experience, I've noticed when my friends get depressed. They get quiet, harder to reach, etc. And it's not their fault; I know what good people they are, and so I'm around when they're feeling better. And vice versa! More importantly though, I understand what it's like to feel like that, and I usually can't wait for them to feel better so I can chat with them again.

However, people who don't know you and have no frame of reference for depression won't understand. So they carry on, and we don't go with them.

IMO, there are people worth spending time with and there are people who aren't ever going to understand or empathize with your experiences. The latter is the vast majority of people. And if you find yourself playing therapist with people, or you feel like you're giving more than you're getting, a lot of the time that might mean that you're just giving too much to the wrong people.

And those who might understand, might be going through their own series of struggles, and if you meet at the wrong time, the ability to connect is inherently damaged because you're both not well enough to invest energy into each other.

Only way to get through it is to keep meeting people. You'll find the right kinda folx eventually!

Thank you for writing this. You put it beautifully

 

[android]

I know for a fact that I already felt lonely as a kid/teenager and know pretty well why I feel this way. Maybe if you look back in your biography you can also find some reasons/events when it started? Does not have to stretch that far back, but it helps to maybe reflect when the feeling started.

Doesn't help in this current moment, because I also try to open up and talk to people, get in contact but it seems I can't catch a break.

I guess we can only try to stay open, talk to people and just hope that some suitable human being will stroll along.

Whats the reason for you, if youre willing to share?

I dont know why I felt so alone as a child
I understand that my emotions were not mirrored or seen by my parents, not that they didnt try but that I was overly sensitive.

Just nobody at school, ever, really connected with me. At some point after 4th grade I stopped trying.

I like your thread and I dont have anything concrete to contribute but the first thing that popped in my mind was "natural selection ". Some maybe just unfit for breeding and connection and are thus encouraged by nature to cull themselves

One thing I slightly disagree with (maybe) of @venerated-vader comments are that depressed people withdraw entirely. I dont think so. I havent spoken to pepple in ages (2 years now) until suicide hotline yesterday. Its not because I dont want to speak. I just dont want to speak about the shallow surface level bullshit that most people spend their entire lives mulling over. Hobbies, relationships, blah blah blah. All total bullshit. I maybe in general dont want to speak but I think when im down, it actually is viscerally irritating to hear people's small problems or plans or how they're just going about their lives and wasting their time in stupid distractions. I still would never refuse the opportunity to be seen or heard. I just cant handle most people's bullshit. I dont want to or need to. I hate the psychological entanglement too. But i admit when calling hotline yesterday I realised that not all people are like that. Some are willing to listen and engage with you on a deeper level. I dont see that type of thing happening, ever, in my life. Its not happened in 24 years with my own parents or siblings.

the thing about relationships with mentally ill people is that they are very asymmetric. We have nothing to give and everything to benefit; the partner has nothing to benefit but has to give everything to help... and often we drag others down with us.

 

[Misery99]

I think it's just because some people were dealt a bad hand in life...most of the times people who have a community are the ones who have had a positive and healthy upbringing in their early life...so as a result, they develop a healthy mindset and then they become successful and earn money and social status so the other people gravitate around them. It sucks but it's just how unfair life really is.

 

[venerated-vader]

One thing I slightly disagree with (maybe) of @venerated-vader comments are that depressed people withdraw entirely. I dont think so. I havent spoken to pepple in ages (2 years now) until suicide hotline yesterday. Its not because I dont want to speak. I just dont want to speak about the shallow surface level bullshit that most people spend their entire lives mulling over. Hobbies, relationships, blah blah blah. All total bullshit. I maybe in general dont want to speak but I think when im down, it actually is viscerally irritating to hear people's small problems or plans or how they're just going about their lives and wasting their time in stupid distractions. I still would never refuse the opportunity to be seen or heard. I just cant handle most people's bullshit.

I hear you. I feel like that a lot, myself. It's a constant struggle, but I'd like to clarify what I meant.

> 'I just can't handle most people's bullshit'-- that is exactly what I mean. It's bullshit to you, but to them these things are what characterizes the very substance of their lives. It's like going up to someone and saying 'you enjoy playing games? Engaging in hobbies? Working, hanging out with friends? I have zero interest in those things right now. It's all a bunch of bullshit, and I don't want to talk about such meaningless nonsense when i feel like I'm dying every day I open my eyes.' And you don't need to say that outright for people to pick up that you're not engaged with the things they care about. More importantly, even if you're feeling good enough the day you meet someone, or for a week or a month of your acquaintenceship-- one day, you might return to that dark place. They'll notice. As I said, it takes a handful of bad-day interactions for a person to disengage, and it takes very little emotional distance for budding friendships to dissolve. Not to mention, being suicidal is something a majority of people can't even begin to fathom. That is where the distance lies, and why forging close bonds with people long term when they don't understand is so difficult, if not impossible.

It's like trying to befriend a young teenager: all they have to talk about is school, their friends, the struggles they face with their parents. If they're well enough, they might worry about college or consider what they might want to be when they're finally on their own. But if you're a 35 year old man working middle-management with bills and a spouse, you might consider the concerns of that child to be meaningless. An old widow might disregard the problems that 35 year old has because she's lost her spouse, and her children have moved out, and she's relying solely on her friends and her religious beliefs to get her through. That teenager will never understand that widow. And, for your peers: if a child is being beaten at home, what is that kid gonna talk about with their classmates? They're worried about going home and being beaten, not about what game is coming out next week.

Fundamental incompatibilities like these can be found among people who aren't severely depressed and contemplating suicide as I illustrated-- but usually the other side has a frame of reference they can rely on! For us, not so much.

Suicidal ideation is so heavily stigmatized that merely discussing how we feel is problematic, and in having to be choosey about who we open up to, we're stuck with a permanent wall between us and the people we're trying to befriend. Add to that depression, a chronic lack of social energy, bouts of (reasonable) anger and bitterness, and now there's a chasm between yourself and the world beyond.

 

[android]

I hear you. I feel like that a lot, myself. It's a constant struggle, but I'd like to clarify what I meant.

> 'I just can't handle most people's bullshit'-- that is exactly what I mean. It's bullshit to you, but to them these things are what characterizes the very substance of their lives. It's like going up to someone and saying 'you enjoy playing games? Engaging in hobbies? Working, hanging out with friends? I have zero interest in those things right now. It's all a bunch of bullshit, and I don't want to talk about such meaningless nonsense when i feel like I'm dying every day I open my eyes.' And you don't need to say that outright for people to pick up that you're not engaged with the things they care about. More importantly, even if you're feeling good enough the day you meet someone, or for a week or a month of your acquaintenceship-- one day, you might return to that dark place. They'll notice. As I said, it takes a handful of bad-day interactions for a person to disengage, and it takes very little emotional distance for budding friendships to dissolve. Not to mention, being suicidal is something a majority of people can't even begin to fathom. That is where the distance lies, and why forging close bonds with people long term when they don't understand is so difficult, if not impossible.

It's like trying to befriend a young teenager: all they have to talk about is school, their friends, the struggles they face with their parents. If they're well enough, they might worry about college or consider what they might want to be when they're finally on their own. But if you're a 35 year old man working middle-management with bills and a spouse, you might consider the concerns of that child to be meaningless. An old widow might disregard the problems that 35 year old has because she's lost her spouse, and her children have moved out, and she's relying solely on her friends and her religious beliefs to get her through. That teenager will never understand that widow. And, for your peers: if a child is being beaten at home, what is that kid gonna talk about with their classmates? They're worried about going home and being beaten, not about what game is coming out next week.

Fundamental incompatibilities like these can be found among people who aren't severely depressed and contemplating suicide as I illustrated-- but usually the other side has a frame of reference they can rely on! For us, not so much.

Suicidal ideation is so heavily stigmatized that merely discussing how we feel is problematic, and in having to be choosey about who we open up to, we're stuck with a permanent wall between us and the people we're trying to befriend. Add to that depression, a chronic lack of social energy, bouts of (reasonable) anger and bitterness, and now there's a chasm between yourself and the world beyond.

What a fantastic description. Thank you. Agree 100pct.

 

[overthehill]

Hot take and a lot of people are not going to like this, but I'd say that for a lot of us simply being male is the biggest reason we're lonely. I honestly think there's no such thing as a truly lonely women, barring the ones so physically disabled they literally can't leave the house or so mentally disturbed they scream at their own shadows all day.

The truth is absolutely nobody cares about men. Other men don't care because men are the competition, women do not care because in their eyes men only exist to benefit women, the political establishment does not care because men are the perpetual oppressor who need to be put down to keep women safe.

As a man, you sink or swim. Nobody looks for you, nobody's coming to get you, nobody stretches out a helping hand when you're in need, you're told your life is easy and you're privileged if you complain, wanting friendship makes you weak, wanting emotional intimacy makes you needy and wanting sexual intimacy makes you a creepy, objectifying pervert. The extent to which dating apps just don't work for men (according to Grok a woman's odds of a like being repaid in kind are 50%, a man's are 0.8%) just proves how much women see men as an undesirable burden. And we're surprised men are overrepresented in suicides? Are we surprised the biggest risk facture in suicide is your gender?

Now I know that there will be a lot of offended women out there itching to prove me wrong. To those women, I invite you to take a moment to consider whether your reply comes down to a variation of "99% of men are trash" because every single "girls have it difficult too" response boils down to this in essence.

I also fully expect this post to be deleted and my account to be banned. God forbid men talk about their problems.

 

[houseofleaves]

I honestly think there's no such thing as a truly lonely woman

What does "truly lonely" mean to you?

 

[overthehill]

What does "truly lonely" mean to you?

Bit late of a reply, but having absolutely zero options for social interaction. In the age of dating apps, no woman has zero options. Just men she considers unworthy, oceans upon oceans of "unworthy" men.

 

[Lookingtoflyfree]

Is there a reason why some people are ignored while other people are noticed and appreciated by the people in their lives?

Autism. The answer in my case is autism.

 

[Sphinxi]

1. It's worth noting that modern society is deeply antisocial and the idea of having to go out of your way to form a community and meet people would be alien to a person from any other era.

Bit late of a reply, but having absolutely zero options for social interaction. In the age of dating apps, no woman has zero options. Just men she considers unworthy, oceans upon oceans of "unworthy" men.

2. I broadly agree with the analysis here that this is harder for men, and data seems to back this up. Part of the distinction is that women (broadly speaking) have more intrinsic value to people, and people prefer talking to a woman to a man all else equal. However modern society is also very clearly atomizing women and making them loneliner.

Autism. The answer in my case is autism.

3. As a fellow autist I would agree. It very much feels as though human communication is my second language, and even when I want to be friends with a person that I am talking to, I become paralyzed by eye contact with them, and I struggle to say anything. Autistic people are socially defective, but even if you aren't autistic, it seems like there are social skills that one needs to develop early in life and you are stranded if you lack them by the time you are an adult.

4. If anyone is interested in developing social skills and confidence, try talking to older people. They usually appreciate conversation and will drone on about their lives which gives you the opportunity to refine your social skills in a low stress environment.

 

[Forever Sleep]

For me, it was mostly when I started college and uni that I found my 'tribe'. I think a shared interest really helps. Prior to that, I just didn't really fit in many of the groups. Those into pop music or fashion or drinking. It helps to have a shared interest to talk about.

I suppose it's luck in a way too- that each person fulfils a need in the other.

I would have said that listening is as important as opening up but, it sounds like you do that already. Maybe you've been unlucky in that the people you've come into contact with weren't good listeners in return.

I think there's also a kind of level. I tend to befriend worriers and negative/ cynical people like me- rather than optimists. Probably the majority of people I know fairly early on, we'll be passing aquaintances, rather than friends- because our outlooks are so different.

Friendship requires a lot of effort from both sides too. The people I've known in life who kept a circle of friends throughout were always planning things. Regularly too. Meeting up for lunch every few weeks etc. It's so easy to let even really close friendships slip.

The one friend I do stay in touch with, we sort of mark one day of the week as special so- we always text on that day but, usually more.

I think mostly though, there needs to be a mutual need for one another. That can become complicated when partners come into the frame because- they start to fulfil those needs and they bring in their own requirements. I think lots of friendships fail when people meet their significant other. Not always though. I've known partners be friends with other partners. It probably depends on how sociable they all are.