Discussion Why do people decide on having kids still?

[Endstati0n]

My cousin is having a kid in some months and my sister just gave birth not long ago. I just don't understand why they want to bring someone into existence while our time is coming to an end.

I asked my cousin if he's afraid of climate change, and he said something like: "nahh, it ain't so bad..." sounded like he doesn't really know alot about it or chooses not to inform himself. My sisters whole Identity is being a mom. She makes "mom content" on instagram. She even said she wants another baby. Clearly she only thinks about what she wants, not about what world the kids will live in, in 10-20 years. I'm sad for her latest child, i can see him happy now and not knowing what is coming.

The world is depressed, fucked and all that, we all know that everything sucks nowadays, but climate change alone should be the biggest reason not to have kids anymore.

The only people having kids right now are either selfish or NPCs. No normal person who is watching the news about climate change says to themselves "you know what? The news says the world will reach 3°+ in 2050, which means half of all humans will die and the rest of humanity will be hit by unprecedented catastrophies... perfect time to make a baby now!"

 

[Hollowman]

Selfishness, ignorance and they're delusional.

 

[fadedghost]

scientific illiteracy and/or selfishness in wanting have kids?

it's hard to believe but if people are given good scientific data, and then told by two experts two different things, most people can't easily tell who's right.

so regular people don't have the ability to analyze data without scientific help and are often given "competing experts" and just lack the knowledge to undertsand who is interpreting the data correctly.

a lot of times people draw illogical conclusions from multiple experts.

so if 100 scientific experts argue that gas powered cars are going to collapse the AMOC within 50 years and global warming is caused by mad-made pollution and emissions, but 2 religious scientists from University of Oklahoma say that global warming is just part of a cycle and nothing to worry about, a lot of people who lack scientific literacy will go "well, there probably is global warming, but it's probably not as bad as some scientists say and there's time to change it." The correct conclusion would be to disregard the religious "scientists" from University of Oklahoma from the data set and rely on the 100 scientific experts, but most people just sort of guess it's in between.

there are also people who are completely scientifically illiterate and just defer to what their pastor or people around them say. So if liberal scientists are in favor of abortion and believe in global warming, since their church says abortion is wrong, then global warming is part of the crazy liberal thinking too.

 

[N@te]

My cousin is having a kid in some months and my sister just gave birth not long ago. I just don't understand why they want to bring someone into existence while our time is coming to an end.

I asked my cousin if he's afraid of climate change, and he said something like: "nahh, it ain't so bad..." sounded like he doesn't really know alot about it or chooses not to inform himself. My sisters whole Identity is being a mom. She makes "mom content" on instagram. She even said she wants another baby. Clearly she only thinks about what she wants, not about what world the kids will live in, in 10-20 years. I'm sad for her latest child, i can see him happy now and not knowing what is coming.

The world is depressed, fucked and all that, we all know that everything sucks nowadays, but climate change alone should be the biggest reason not to have kids anymore.

The only people having kids right now are either selfish or NPCs. No normal person who is watching the news about climate change says to themselves "you know what? The news says the world will reach 3°+ in 2050, which means half of all humans will die and the rest of humanity will be hit by unprecedented catastrophies... perfect time to make a baby now!"

its because they aren't mentally ill and overly pessimistic

 

[Endstati0n]

its because they aren't mentally ill and overly pessimistic

You mean realistic. They are delusional

 

[N@te]

You mean realistic. They are delusional

pessemists always say this

 

[Endstati0n]

pessemists always say this

What did i say thats pessimistic

 

[death over slavery]

Biological programming to procreate overrides their sense of rationality

 

[Lost in a Dream]

I don't get it either. Regardless of climate change, it's immoral to bring kids into the world anyway because you are literally sentencing them to die without knowing how it will happen or when. It could be cancer, it could be a car crash, it could be them wasting away in a nursing home with dementia when they're 90. It could be anything.

 

[N@te]

I don't get it either. Regardless of climate change, it's immoral to bring kids into the world anyway because you are literally sentencing them to die without knowing how it will happen or when. It could be cancer, it could be a car crash, it could be them wasting away in a nursing home with dementia when they're 90. It could be anything.

What if they have a happy life before they die though? Can we be sure their life will be a net negative, in terms of suffering?

 

[Lost in a Dream]

What if they have a happy life before they die though? Can we be sure their life will be a net negative, in terms of suffering?

You can't be sure of it at all, that's why it's wrong to take the gamble in the first place because you are doing it without their prior consent beforehand. It's the same as sexually assaulting a passed out drunk person, they could wake up and be happy about it, or they could press charges on you and you could go to prison for rape. Procreation is equally as disgusting and immoral and it isn't "mentally ill" or "pessimistic" to say so as you described it.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I don't understand it either. Definitely not with how it's so obvious that the weather/ climate is changing and how 'natural' disasters are increasing in frequency. Plus- the uncertainty of job markets with AI all over the place. I'd find it bizarre if they aren't at least considering those things.

All I can think of is that they have rose tinted vision. One more generous theme I've seen in wannabe parents is that they intend to give their child a lot of love and support. I think they feel like- so long as they do that, they will be able to face whatever is ahead- together.

It's mostly work colleagues I know now who are having children. While I worry for all children, I suspect they will end up happier than me because their parents are super positive and supportive I imagine.

Plus, I suppose you have to consider- their parents may not have experienced anything like what we have or- they have and they recovered from it. Presumably to them- life still seems worth living and contains enough prospects to offer their children.

Truthfully, I tend to view it as irresponsible still. Seeing as- no matter how positive they are, they do realise what horrors exist in this world. Illness, abuse, financial insecurity etc. They must realise too- that they simply can't protect their children from so many of the dangers out there.

I also think some people go a bit mad in a way too. We are animals at the end of the day. The drive to reproduce is likely as strong as SI for some. That in itself I find interesting. How are some of us able to overcome that drive to have children? Is our logic really that powerful?

Like you say though OP- I tend to think the biggest drive is a selfish one. I've found wannabe parents are mostly focussed on the benefit to their lives. They want to experience being loved by a being utterly dependent on them. They want parenting to be their purpose.

I think for many, it's a need to be loved. But again- I'd question- how much do they love that child in return? Look at the world they've brought them into. Plus- they'll most probably expect them to stay here. No matter how much that child suffers. That doesn't come across as love to me. Love shouldn't be that selfish.

 

[pk@2001]

Selfishness, ignorance and more often than not, they see their own offspring as means to get them bailed out of their sufferings.

 

[Pluto]

 

[valar_morghulis21]

My cousin is having a kid in some months and my sister just gave birth not long ago. I just don't understand why they want to bring someone into existence while our time is coming to an end.

I asked my cousin if he's afraid of climate change, and he said something like: "nahh, it ain't so bad..." sounded like he doesn't really know alot about it or chooses not to inform himself. My sisters whole Identity is being a mom. She makes "mom content" on instagram. She even said she wants another baby. Clearly she only thinks about what she wants, not about what world the kids will live in, in 10-20 years. I'm sad for her latest child, i can see him happy now and not knowing what is coming.

The world is depressed, fucked and all that, we all know that everything sucks nowadays, but climate change alone should be the biggest reason not to have kids anymore.

The only people having kids right now are either selfish or NPCs. No normal person who is watching the news about climate change says to themselves "you know what? The news says the world will reach 3°+ in 2050, which means half of all humans will die and the rest of humanity will be hit by unprecedented catastrophies... perfect time to make a baby now!"

They are happy with their life and decision. People are still having babies during genocide, war, pandemic, etc. Only a small fraction is anti-natalist and want humanity to go extinct, and that would including me.

 

[lastappleonearth]

My cousin is having a kid in some months and my sister just gave birth not long ago. I just don't understand why they want to bring someone into existence while our time is coming to an end.

I asked my cousin if he's afraid of climate change, and he said something like: "nahh, it ain't so bad..." sounded like he doesn't really know alot about it or chooses not to inform himself. My sisters whole Identity is being a mom. She makes "mom content" on instagram. She even said she wants another baby. Clearly she only thinks about what she wants, not about what world the kids will live in, in 10-20 years. I'm sad for her latest child, i can see him happy now and not knowing what is coming.

The world is depressed, fucked and all that, we all know that everything sucks nowadays, but climate change alone should be the biggest reason not to have kids anymore.

The only people having kids right now are either selfish or NPCs. No normal person who is watching the news about climate change says to themselves "you know what? The news says the world will reach 3°+ in 2050, which means half of all humans will die and the rest of humanity will be hit by unprecedented catastrophies... perfect time to make a baby now!"

I mean bringing a child into the world is always in itself a selfish action, because in the end you are acting on your own desires. Although if the parents are financially and emotionally in a good and stable position and can provide a good upbringing for the child, I see nothing wrong with it. It's a privilege and also a great responsibility to be able to start a family

 

[limenlux]

I'm not an anti-natalist because though I would personally prefer to have never been born, I try to stay grounded in the reality that this makes me an extreme outlier, as I see no evidence to suggest that the vast majority of humanity is even capable of critically reflecting upon this subject, and the ones who are generally prefer being alive to its nearest alternative. In either case, I have decided to not hold anyone's innate limitations, or optimism, or adherence to biological imperative against them.

I'm confident one could successfully argue that existence is inherently a struggle, as it is self-evident through an abundance of data supplied by the daily activities of all life on earth, but I find myself unconvinced of there being any definable moral paramaters to said struggle.

 

[_Gollum_]

Biological programming to procreate overrides their sense of rationality

This. Antinatalists constantly rack their brains with this question, coming up with all sorts of psychoanalytic responses for why people procreate, when the reality is just that humans are biological organisms who have evolved a very strong drive to reproduce. Even bacteria reproduce; it's one of the most basic functions of life.

Yes, humans have a higher level of awareness and the ability to think through our actions before we do them, but we're more than capable of turning that capacity off when it gets in the way of our base desires. And most people will never be aware that that's what they're doing when it comes to reproduction because it's so glorified in society. Modern-day people see having kids as a "personal choice" that you can use for your own personal fulfillment or joy or satisfaction. No one ever stops to consider whether your "personal choice" might severely harm the very child you claim to love so much.

 

[itsgone2]

I truly don't understand the poorest countries having the highest birth rates. Or anyone that can't support themselves deciding a child is a good idea. Other than, it's instinct. And perhaps some of them still have happy lives.

 

[Cauliflour]

I truly don't understand the poorest countries having the highest birth rates. Or anyone that can't support themselves deciding a child is a good idea. Other than, it's instinct. And perhaps some of them still have happy lives.

Poorer countries don't have access to contraceptives or medicine so you need more kids with the idea that half will probably get wiped out by disease. That and if you work on a farm to support yourself then you need family members to work on said farm. There's a strong link between birth rate and the wealth of a country. There's more details but I'm not a geographer so I can't give this topic justice with my limited knowledge.

 

[coolcow1289]

"The news says the world will reach 3°+ in 2050, which means half of all humans will die"

This just isn't true. There's no explanation for how this could possibly be true. I understand climate change and it will cause problems, but it will not kill many people. In fact it will result in an increase in the amount of fertile land available for farming - increasing the population carrying capacity of the earth.

Maybe nuclear war will kill us off. That's way more likely.

But to answer your question, people have kids because they need something in their life to give them meaning and purpose. With kids they can get fulfillment by raising them and offload their need for meaning and purpose onto them. Like a never ending Russian doll situation. A pyramid scheme.

 

[Endstati0n]

"The news says the world will reach 3°+ in 2050, which means half of all humans will die"

This just isn't true. There's no explanation for how this could possibly be true. I understand climate change and it will cause problems, but it will not kill many people. In fact it will result in an increase in the amount of fertile land available for farming - increasing the population carrying capacity of the earth.

Maybe nuclear war will kill us off. That's way more likely.

But to answer your question, people have kids because they need something in their life to give them meaning and purpose. With kids they can get fulfillment by raising them and offload their need for meaning and purpose onto them. Like a never ending Russian doll situation. A pyramid scheme.

You clearly need to inform yourself about what 3° warming does to us humans. It's worse than anything you can imagine

 

[fadedghost]

"The news says the world will reach 3°+ in 2050, which means half of all humans will die"

This just isn't true. There's no explanation for how this could possibly be true. I understand climate change and it will cause problems, but it will not kill many people. In fact it will result in an increase in the amount of fertile land available for farming - increasing the population carrying capacity of the earth.

Maybe nuclear war will kill us off. That's way more likely.

But to answer your question, people have kids because they need something in their life to give them meaning and purpose. With kids they can get fulfillment by raising them and offload their need for meaning and purpose onto them. Like a never ending Russian doll situation. A pyramid scheme.

You're the scientific illiteracy example. You read lots of Bible to earn your University of Oklahoma Ph.D. in the Science of Religion and it shows.

You clearly need to inform yourself about what 3° warming does to us humans. It's worse than anything you can imagine

"It simply can't be that many people because that's too many! In fact, it's the opposite, sudden shocking changes in the climate due to the AMOC collapse would make us all extremely more sexually fertile for Jebus" -illogical religious thinker not accepting reality

 

[Endstati0n]

"The news says the world will reach 3°+ in 2050, which means half of all humans will die"

This just isn't true. There's no explanation for how this could possibly be true. I understand climate change and it will cause problems, but it will not kill many people. In fact it will result in an increase in the amount of fertile land available for farming - increasing the population carrying capacity of the earth.

Maybe nuclear war will kill us off. That's way more likely.

But to answer your question, people have kids because they need something in their life to give them meaning and purpose. With kids they can get fulfillment by raising them and offload their need for meaning and purpose onto them. Like a never ending Russian doll situation. A pyramid scheme.

The earth is designed to inhabit 100.000 humans. 500.000 MAX. Everything else is unsustainable. Extinction is taking place right now big time.

CtBing is probably the best decision for anyone right now, not just suicidal people. Better than dying of heat stroke, no food or water etc. in a couple years.

This year 12.000 people died because of the heat in germany alone and it's still counting.

 

[coolcow1289]

You're the scientific illiteracy example. You read lots of Bible to earn your University of Oklahoma Ph.D. in the Science of Religion and it shows.

"It simply can't be that many people because that's too many! In fact, it's the opposite, sudden shocking changes in the climate due to the AMOC collapse would make us all extremely more sexually fertile for Jebus" -illogical religious thinker not accepting reality

I'm not religious. You sound religious. "The end times are coming we are all going to die!!"

The earth is designed to inhabit 100.000 humans. 500.000 MAX. Everything else is unsustainable. Extinction is taking place right now big time.

CtBing is probably the best decision for anyone right now, not just suicidal people. Better than dying of heat stroke, no food or water etc. in a couple years.

This year 12.000 people died because of the heat in germany alone and it's still counting.

The long term carrying capacity of the earth is around 2.5 billion. And People die in heatstroke every year. Mostly old people and the homeless. I looked it up and even the WEF is predicting worst case 10-15 mill excess deaths by 2050. Nowhere near 4 billion or 50% of earths population. You can CTB but don't fool yourself that you are avoiding an extinction event.

 

[Endstati0n]

I'm not religious. You sound religious. "The end times are coming we are all going to die!!"

The long term carrying capacity of the earth is around 2.5 billion. And People die in heatstroke every year. Mostly old people and the homeless. I looked it up and even the WEF is predicting worst case 10-15 mill excess deaths by 2050. Nowhere near 4 billion or 50% of earths population. You can CTB but don't fool yourself that you are avoiding an extinction event.

That's just rage bating at this point. You're talking out of your ass here. You quickly look up stuff thats validating your point that climate change aint so bad. Please just inform yourself and you'll quickly find out that we are quite literally in an extinction event.