Why do mental health workers keep trying to push me into finding my ‘meaning/purpose of life’

[Stroopwafel.]

There is no meaning or purpose in life. Life is completely useless and meaningless. Just because people fool themselves into having a meaning of life, doesn't mean there is any. People just do this to make their life bearable. When you realize there is no meaning or purpose, life all of a sudden becomes completely useless, so people just fool themselves by finding their dumb meanings and purposes.

And that's fine. I mean, if you wanna live in a lie like that, go ahead, I won't stop you. But fucking hell, stop telling me there's a meaning in my life as well. That I can find the purpose of my life as well. That it is just depression who tells me there isn't. No you dumb fucks, even before I was depressed I already was very aware of the fact that life has no meaning and is just some pointless thing till we die. Stop trying to force me into the things you believe. I will never fall for it. Life is pointless. It will always be. There is no fucking reason we exist.

But somehow people in the mental health care really can not accept this view on life. They will do everything to convince you otherwise, they will not accept your opinion on this matter. I think that's because deep down they know we are right, but if they admit that, their life will become a lot less fun as well. So they just yell at us and act like we are completely insane by thinking/saying this.

 

[aviation]

Because the mental health system works via distractions and attempts at continuous pushing-down of what they see, by wanting the 'patient' to fill themselves with as much busy emptiness as they can, in an attempt to make them not see what's behind this anymore - while not realizing or forgetting that this does not actually solve anything, since you will fall just the same, should the stream of surface distractions ever disappear. Let's say you have a terrifying and crippling fear of spiders, and there are people whose entire professional purpose is to help you with this - and their response to the problem is to offer you a blindfold.

 

[suicidesheep31]

The purpose of the health care workers' life is to help you finding your purpose, and make your life more bearable.
They profoundly believe in it.
If you don't find purpose or if they don't manage to help you, they feel sad for you in most of the cases and might think that they failed in a way.

 

[Panna]

The purpose of the health care workers' life is to help you finding your purpose, and make your life more bearable.
They profoundly believe in it.
If you don't find purpose or if they don't manage to help you, they feel sad for you in most of the cases and might think that they failed in a way.

That's the sad bit, in my experience simply preaching at you for an hour, and then expecting you back for the next appointment is the extent of their responsibilities. How anyone can expect this way of doing things will help is beyond me. Going the extra mile, getting more involved and hands on if need be would be far more effective. Simply patting yourself on the back after giving empty words and vainly believing you've saved someone is foolish.

 

[ncmxm]

Let's say you have a terrifying and crippling fear of spiders, and there are people whose entire professional purpose is to help you with this - and their response to the problem is to offer you a blindfold.

Brilliantly put

 

[unperson]

It's what they do. It's not wrong of them it's just that most aren't prepared to have a real rational dialogue about philosophy. If you've experienced this kind of nihilism the only way to overcome it and benefit will be a very intellectually complicated and honest way of conceptualizing the function of subjectivity and I have a lot to say on the topic but need a little break from writing so I will post a link to some I already did but also recommend listening to intellectually respectable philosophical debates with the likes of Sam Harris, Daniel Dennet, Slokajov Zizek, Christopher Hitchens, Jordan Peterson, & others. Also differentiate between objective nihilism and subjective nihilism, any emotional experience derived from and ascribed to a nihilistic perspective is innately paradoxical

https://link.medium.com/X6xkH1zFtib

"Another option is nihilism of course but this can lead to depression and anhedonia, which then leads to misery which is in-and-of-itself innately incompatible with nihilism in the subjective sense, as nihilism only makes sense in an intellectualized conceptualization that compartmentalizes & separates one's notion of the internal & external; the subject & the object — essentially comprising of an ironic paradoxical travesty of conflated one's nihilistic-idealism-derived emotional experience with some kind of irrational inference about the nature of reality. But of course the concept of nihilism can be used as a philosophical medication seeking to precipitate an apathetic kind of existential-depression, but such a thing is of course irrational in light of suffering inevitably arising out of the substrate of this catatonic state of being."

there I copied it, 'twas the sixth paragraph down in my article

 

[flagmaster]

I feel like depression just means you can see life for what it is. There are different ways you can approach life but we all have the same destination. Our existence is brief. Death and decay are the ultimate and permanent states of all living organisms. Our lives are cosmically insignificant and people who say otherwise do so to manage their own mental health. Religion's purpose is to manage how people view death by giving the idea that there is an everlasting afterlife for us all. People need to have meaning in their life to keep going, but that's a personal choice, as is religion. Facing up to reality is tough - no wonder why it's a lot easier to pretend that things matter. It feels like I can never go back to pretending now. Sure, I can have distractions...but I always come back to 'this'

They just have a job they do. They might also genuinely care about what they do and feel like they can make a difference.

 

[unperson]

To put it simply, imagine you were having fun playing a game and some asshole is like 'this game isn't real and doesn't matter, it's stupid and a waste of time' and you can be like 'I don't give a fuck this shit fun bruh, fuck off' cuz in that moment it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter. It's about the 'subjective meaning' which is a conscious experience and you can be aware of the fact that it's only a feeling or experience, but so what? Why be upset? Why stop playing? If nothing matters then it doesn't matter that nothing matters. Then it doesn't matter that some people think something matters. And the nature of your pain means that something does matter subjectively or rather this could be an issue of semantics, but ultimately if you don't want things to matter subjectively either fair enough, and if life is hard to enjoy that's a whole separate topic of brain function and psychology and circumstance. Ok so I ended up pontificating a lot more written thoughts than anticipated; but there are only few things I've had this much thought about and experience with from being on both sides. I'm nihilistic when it suits me though this might be an avoidance issue, and when I'm happy why be nihilistic because that would be an attachment to that which can't matter anyway according to it's own doctrine? Ok ima go now

 

[Worndown]

If mental health workers said your problems are beyond their ability to fix and you should consider death options, there would be outrage at throwing away a portion of the population because their issues were difficult to manage.

 

[BottomlessPit]

Therapy sessions are sometimes just a method of brainwashing. They make you believe that you are ill for thinking that life has no objective & subjective purpose, even though these facts are as clear as day to anyone willing to have an honest look. They effectively pathologize intellectual honesty.
This can be useful in certain cases; most people who want to recover need to develop some kind of framework that makes reality more palatable and enables them to endure suffering. But not everyone can or even wants to create their own rose-colored glasses...

 

[FuneralCry]

In the end it is an industry and they do it to earn a living. Society wants to keep people alive to pay taxes and things like that, so they try to get people to accept delusions. Life is essentially meaningless, we will all die and be forgotten. There is no point to any of it. It is all temporary. It is just a coping mechanism, where people think there is some sort of purpose to this life, as if they considered how pointless it all is, it would drive them insane.

 

[Stroopwafel.]

I wrote this when I was very upset and angry. I know they can't really just agree with me and tell me everything indeed is shit and meaningless and I should just kill myself. I don't even want them to. They can believe whatever they want, I honestly don't care. It's just that some of them really do not want accept in the slightest way that I have a different opinion about it.

I just left the hospital where I've been for 9.5 months. Did it help me to feel better? No, definitely not. But I've met people in there who really wanted to listen to me and who accepted my view of life. I've honestly had some really nice discussions and conversations about it. The hospital didn't help me to feel better, but it was a different place from what I'm used to. They did not try to make things look better, or give me constant hope. They accepted my feelings, I could share my darkest thoughts with them, they would (almost never) blame me for it or make me feel like I'm wrong or weird or whatever.

I know this is kinda rare for a place like that. And right now I'm in another place, where the people do not fully accept this part of me anymore. Where they are trying to convince me otherwise. I guess I just really miss the people from the other place. Honestly they were great people (most of them)

I know I can't be 'saved', and I know that's what people often try. It feels just wrong to let them try I guess. I just can not handle the 'everything will be alright' people anymore.

 

[Stroopwafel.]

I still have weekly appointments with two of the therapists from the hospital for a few more weeks. Today one of them told me she 'understands I'm too intense to handle for people who don't know me yet' thanks for your honesty, really not what I needed to hear rn. She's extremely honest tho and she even admitted again today (she did a few times before) that she doubts if I will survive. She thinks I will kill myself in the end. It's really weird when a therapist is so open about that tbh. But I guess I like it better then the 'everything will be alright' therapists.

 

[unperson]

Therapy sessions are sometimes just a method of brainwashing. They make you believe that you are ill for thinking that life has no objective & subjective purpose, even though these facts are as clear as day to anyone willing to have an honest look. They effectively pathologize intellectual honesty.
This can be useful in certain cases; most people who want to recover need to develop some kind of framework that makes reality more palatable and enables them to endure suffering. But not everyone can or even wants to create their own rose-colored glasses...

It's even worse when it's them trying to tell you your inability to self regulate and function is because you believe you can't; essentially a therapising way saying 'hey, pull up by boot straps, if cant ur shit fucked outa luck kid, and I'll keep gaslighting you by saying you have a 'choice' and 'free will'' as if one would chose to live this way... in other words no matter what issue you're having it comes down to the same 'if my narcissistic grandiose clinical elite & spiritual-woo pontificating doesn't help your broken-brained ass it's your fault and you're just a non-compliant asshole who doesn't want to get better'

I just can not handle the 'everything will be alright' people anymore.

I felt this

 

[112]

Nihilistic views are a predictor of suicide. The 'mental health' worker's object is in part to prevent suicide in most places.

 

[Alwaysbadtime]

If those mental health workers had no job, no career and nowhere to go every day they would too think existence was a huge pile of shit. If they had to do horrible jobs that no one else wanted to do and were paid horribly they too would feel hopeless. Their position...their salary...makes them feel hope...

 

[Existingnotliving]

There is no meaning or purpose in life. Life is completely useless and meaningless. Just because people fool themselves into having a meaning of life, doesn't mean there is any. People just do this to make their life bearable. When you realize there is no meaning or purpose, life all of a sudden becomes completely useless, so people just fool themselves by finding their dumb meanings and purposes.

And that's fine. I mean, if you wanna live in a lie like that, go ahead, I won't stop you. But fucking hell, stop telling me there's a meaning in my life as well. That I can find the purpose of my life as well. That it is just depression who tells me there isn't. No you dumb fucks, even before I was depressed I already was very aware of the fact that life has no meaning and is just some pointless thing till we die. Stop trying to force me into the things you believe. I will never fall for it. Life is pointless. It will always be. There is no fucking reason we exist.

But somehow people in the mental health care really can not accept this view on life. They will do everything to convince you otherwise, they will not accept your opinion on this matter. I think that's because deep down they know we are right, but if they admit that, their life will become a lot less fun as well. So they just yell at us and act like we are completely insane by thinking

Omg, it's like you're in my head!!! This is what I've always said to people and I always say those without mental health issues are the ones with the greatest issues because they're the ones that see life as meaningful etc. We are literally born to die, so what is the point of anything in between? You could live the greatest life but you're not gonna know about it once you're dead so what's the point? I've felt so alone in this feeling for so long so I'm glad I've found a post I 100% relate to.

 

[Journeytoletgo]

There is no meaning or purpose in life. Life is completely useless and meaningless. Just because people fool themselves into having a meaning of life, doesn't mean there is any. People just do this to make their life bearable. When you realize there is no meaning or purpose, life all of a sudden becomes completely useless, so people just fool themselves by finding their dumb meanings and purposes.

And that's fine. I mean, if you wanna live in a lie like that, go ahead, I won't stop you. But fucking hell, stop telling me there's a meaning in my life as well. That I can find the purpose of my life as well. That it is just depression who tells me there isn't. No you dumb fucks, even before I was depressed I already was very aware of the fact that life has no meaning and is just some pointless thing till we die. Stop trying to force me into the things you believe. I will never fall for it. Life is pointless. It will always be. There is no fucking reason we exist.

But somehow people in the mental health care really can not accept this view on life. They will do everything to convince you otherwise, they will not accept your opinion on this matter. I think that's because deep down they know we are right, but if they admit that, their life will become a lot less fun as well. So they just yell at us and act like we are completely insane by thinking/saying this.

it all comes down to enjoyment and fulfillment. Some people enjoy their life and find it really fulfilling while some of us, just cannot desire this and digest this so we are depressed at least thats my take.

 

[unperson]

it all comes down to enjoyment and fulfillment. Some people enjoy their life and find it really fulfilling while some of us, just cannot desire this and digest this so we are depressed at least thats my take.

Exactly it's like if you have sex with a condom and birth control 'oh what's the point it's just a one night stand and ya ain't makin no babies' well no shit but it's still fun. Who gives a fuck if you'll never see the person again and nothing else will come of it. I don't know if I'm being arrogant here but I feel like I have a pretty good view of the paradox of being depressed from nihilism and not understanding the semantics issue. Maybe it's because I've been an atheist and objectively nihilistic for so long and also have a kind of Buddhist perspective on impermanence and death and suffering and attachments, so to me it's so obvious the fun that can be found in life if the right conditions are in place and subjectively speaking who cares about purpose beyond that because to care about the reality of nihilism is to paradoxically perceive that lack of things mattering is something that matters. Having said that personally my brain is just fucked so ya know life is kinda lame, but if I just had more resilient mental Health that would be greeeeaaaaaaaat

 

[Dear Agony]

I agree completely. You know what the problem is? People who try to convince you there's a meaning in life are either religious, or haven't been through unbearable physical or mental anguish. People choose to believe in a fiction, because it's way too painful to admit their suffering is for nothing, and there's inherently no meaning for all the horrible things that happen everyday.

 

[unperson]

I agree completely. You know what the problem is? People who try to convince you there's a meaning in life are either religious, or haven't been through unbearable physical or mental anguish. People choose to believe in a fiction, because it's way too painful to admit their suffering is for nothing, and there's inherently no meaning for all the horrible things that happen everyday.

But would you consider the possibility of seeing it both ways; looking outside the dichotomy, and seeing meaning as a kind of emotion, not some external spiritual woo. So in that sense the religious person might be ignorant about the neurochemistry of what causes the perception and feeling of meaning. It's like sadness doesn't exist outside oneself or eternally but there's still the experience of sadness. So I guess what I'm getting at is that I think it's possibly to have an intellectually honest experience of meaning and in my mildy-conceited-Buddha-dharma-proselytizing I beseech thee to look outside the conventional western linguistically retarded interpretation—ok sorry guys ima leave this chat before I molest too many people

molest
transitive verb
To disturb, interfere with, or annoy.

 

[suicidesheep31]

@Stroopwafel.
I have the same reply from my therapist. Saying that if I want to kill myself this is my choice, they will not force me to live.
This kind of words is something new for me because I am not from NL originally.
Here, they are so open about your choice to live or die, that it is overwhelming sometimes. They want to make you responsible of your acts.
Sometimes, I was thinking that they don't care in fact if I kill myself but my therapist explain me that she cares but she doesn't want to make the decision at my place because it would show that I am not capable to do it by myself. Still don't know what is the best: shall they try to stop me? or just be there and validate what I feel and let me chose?

 

[IWantToGoFast]

I like this Sadhguru character view on finding meaning and purpose, and he doesn't look depressed or suicidal. I like his relaxed view on things.

 

[OnlyTheWind]

Lack of comprehension. Everything needs to revolve around "a love of life", "purpose", "it gets better", and countless other coping-mechanisms for the victims of evolution.

 

[one.way.out]

I think purpose is also a delusion, but if people can be happy with deluding themselves, why should I resent them? No point, really. In the end they're the happy ones and I'm the unhappy one.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

There is no meaning or purpose in life. Life is completely useless and meaningless. Just because people fool themselves into having a meaning of life, doesn't mean there is any. People just do this to make their life bearable. When you realize there is no meaning or purpose, life all of a sudden becomes completely useless, so people just fool themselves by finding their dumb meanings and purposes.

And that's fine. I mean, if you wanna live in a lie like that, go ahead, I won't stop you. But fucking hell, stop telling me there's a meaning in my life as well. That I can find the purpose of my life as well. That it is just depression who tells me there isn't. No you dumb fucks, even before I was depressed I already was very aware of the fact that life has no meaning and is just some pointless thing till we die. Stop trying to force me into the things you believe. I will never fall for it. Life is pointless. It will always be. There is no fucking reason we exist.

But somehow people in the mental health care really can not accept this view on life. They will do everything to convince you otherwise, they will not accept your opinion on this matter. I think that's because deep down they know we are right, but if they admit that, their life will become a lot less fun as well. So they just yell at us and act like we are completely insane by thinking/saying this.

i agree with you . I don't see any meaning or purpose in life for me. i don't see a reason i have to work so hard and risk so many terrible things happening to these trillions of cells i'm trapped in.

 

[Makko]

Living with purpose is an excellent distraction from the real questions.

 

[blue_muse]

You're very astute Stroopwafel. I'm in the camp that mental health workers push such an agenda, so that the onus is predominantly on a patient to change never mind other peoples' behaviour impacting the patient. Whatever next...reciting inspirational quotes from social media?

People with that mindset sound like they'd be comfortable within a cult, groupthink and all the usual ingredients. It reminds me of those rags-to-riches stories that exude a sense of "If I can do it then you can" - cringe-worthy.

 

[Stroopwafel.]

@Stroopwafel.
I have the same reply from my therapist. Saying that if I want to kill myself this is my choice, they will not force me to live.
This kind of words is something new for me because I am not from NL originally.
Here, they are so open about your choice to live or die, that it is overwhelming sometimes. They want to make you responsible of your acts.
Sometimes, I was thinking that they don't care in fact if I kill myself but my therapist explain me that she cares but she doesn't want to make the decision at my place because it would show that I am not capable to do it by myself. Still don't know what is the best: shall they try to stop me? or just be there and validate what I feel and let me chose?

They will try to stop you if you are trying to jump off a building or something like that. Once I ended up in the hospital after an overdose and I was doing really bad. At that point I was about to commit myself as i still believed in the shitty system. Guess what? They refused to take me because they were done with me and just sent me home.

At this point there are mental health workers who know I will kill myself at some point and no one is going to try and stop me. As long as I do not do anything dumb like standing on some high building wanting to jump. I had my last appointment with my therapist from the hospital today. I feel really sad about that, I love her a lot and I will miss her a lot. I'm drunk and I literally send her some goodbye message like 30 minutes ago. No one's gonna care. When I was just desperate and trying to get help by doing weird suicidal shit it honestly was hard that people responded this way. But in the last year or so I really appreciated it. It saved me many trips to the psych ward for sure.

 

[unperson]

You're very astute Stroopwafel. I'm in the camp that mental health workers push such an agenda, so that the onus is predominantly on a patient to change never mind other peoples' behaviour impacting the patient. Whatever next...reciting inspirational quotes from social media?

People with that mindset sound like they'd be comfortable within a cult, groupthink and all the usual ingredients. It reminds me of those rags-to-riches stories that exude a sense of "If I can do it then you can" - cringe-worthy.

Well said. And it's funny you say that because a lot of my bad experiences with these things comes from the cultish groups of Alcoholics Anonymous that I've gone to; and also my very pro-Empowerment therapist follows the Dutch guru cult leader guy who thinks he's enlightened but reminds me of that other cult leader who started nexus and was branding women like cattle. I just can't take her seriously anymore, the transference has worn off, and I can no longer tolerate or look past the problematic epistemological naïveté inherent to psychotherapy and it's hypocritical and erroneous use of cognitive behavioral therapy in a very infantilizing rules-for-thee-not-for-me expert/non-expert dichotomy reinforcing approach to the psychologically subjugating reprogramming that is ultimately what therapy is; in order to facilitate increased productivity and vocational capacity; these kinds of processes working well for those who are comfortable with a kind of intellectual and ideological servility, but not working well for more authentic, creative, &or open types who value freedom and autonomy and reject societal servility.