Why did my therapist get upset when I said that a person can't really help someone without having suffered themselves?

[Ambivalent1]

Is it not common sense?

 

[_AllCatsAreGrey_]

I would agree with you. I imagine this was a little crack for them, because it questions the nature of their occupation. I also think therapists have a hard time with clients they perceive as "resistant" to therapy. This may have been seen as this to them.

 

[Ambivalent1]

I would agree with you. I imagine this was a little crack for them, because it questions the nature of their occupation.

Wait. What do you mean? Explain more. I'm curious.

I would agree with you. I imagine this was a little crack for them, because it questions the nature of their occupation. I also think therapists have a hard time with clients they perceive as "resistant" to therapy. This may have been seen as this to them.

How am I resistant?

 

[_AllCatsAreGrey_]

By little crack, I mean to say that it may have been a little break in their professional mode, opening space where they may have took it personally. Your proposition may be in opposition to their training and the very nature of their job.

 

[Ambivalent1]

By little crack, I mean to say that it may have been a little break in their professional mode, opening space where they may have took it personally. Your proposition may be in opposition to their training and the very nature of their job.

Breaking the matrix
But seriously, what do you think happens now? Drops me as a client? How am I resistant to therapy?
@Forever Sleep I'd like your opinion

 

[_AllCatsAreGrey_]

Breaking the matrix
But seriously, what do you think happens now? Drops me as a client? How am I resistant to therapy?

Hahaha! That was just my initial thought, not knowing the context. In my experience I find when therapists get upset it's in moments where they take something personally. Perhaps it was read that you were saying they wouldn't be able to help you, if they haven't suffered in a particular way. I could see some therapists seeing this as resistance if it's not according to their training or modality. It could be seen as deflecting or the like.

Re what happens next, great question. Every therapeutic relationship is different. If you're still invested in the relationship, I'd suggest bringing it up and discussing it with them. It may have been as simple as a misunderstanding. Or, it may be a signal for you that someone else may be more fitting for you. I doubt they will drop you on that alone.

 

[Ambivalent1]

Hahaha! That was just my initial thought, not knowing the context. In my experience I find when therapists get upset it's in moments where they take something personally. Perhaps it was read that you were saying they wouldn't be able to help you, if they haven't suffered in a particular way. I could see some therapists seeing this as resistance if it's not according to their training or modality. It could be seen as deflecting or the like.

Re what happens next, great question. Every therapeutic relationship is different. If you're still invested in the relationship, I'd suggest bringing it up and discussing it with them. It may have been as simple as a misunderstanding. Or, it may be a signal for you that someone else may be more fitting for you. I doubt they will drop you on that alone.

I told her sorry...for her inability to handle the truth lol just kidding. How can a person help someone though if they haven't endured something similar?

 

[kyhoti]

Imnsho, its a deep seated fear of inadequacy or failure that made your caregiver get pissy about what you said. If I may, I'll rephrase your statement: "I can best help someone who is going through the suffering I have survived."

People who haven't been through hell can still help, by listening w/o judgement, by just being available for you or just by helping you to at your problems with a fresh set of objective eyes.

 

[_AllCatsAreGrey_]

I told her sorry...for her inability to handle the truth lol just kidding. How can a person help someone though if they haven't endured something similar?

I suppose ideas on that would vary depending on what school of thought and what modality they practice.

 

[Ambivalent1]

I suppose ideas on that would vary depending on what school of thought and what modality they practice.

Freud

 

[Tesha]

How can a person help someone though if they haven't endured something similar?

A brain surgeon probably hasn't gone through brain surgery. But, I suspect he's met enough people who have, to know how they might be feeling and empathise with them.

 

[_AllCatsAreGrey_]

Freud

Yeah, they would have a high chance of seeing such questioning as being resistant imo. Typically not very client driven.

 

[Ambivalent1]

Yeah, they would have a high chance of seeing such questioning as being resistant imo. Typically not very client driven.

I was kidding lol I don't know

A brain surgeon probably hasn't gone through brain surgery. But, I suspect he's met enough people who have, to know how they might be feeling and empathise with them.

Why was she upset?

 

[_AllCatsAreGrey_]

I was kidding lol I don't know

Ah. I see. I'm always inclined to suss out what modalities my therapist is influenced by and practices. I find it helpful to understand where they're coming from and ultimately find a good fit.

 

[ms_beaverhousen]

Freud

"Fraud"

 

[R_N]

You challenged their authority over you. And probably their identity. What some consider 'help' doesn't necessarily help people. What people administer can even make someone worse. In my case psychiatry and sometimes medical 'help' in general damaged my body beyond repair.

 

[Bluebells]

I've always thought those who have been through it would work better because they know exactly how it feels. I think your therapist was upset because they studied to be one so they understandably know a few things and how to "help" but experience counts a lot more than reading words off a book and thats just the truth

 

[Ambivalent1]

I've always thought those who have been through it would work better because they know exactly how it feels. I think your therapist was upset because they studied to be one so they understandably know a few things and how to "help" but experience counts a lot more than reading words off a book and thats just the truth

I also mentioned how all my suffering is chiseling me into something great and teaching me empathy. She got even more upset. I don't understand. What do you think happened there?

 

[Bluebells]

I also mentioned how all my suffering is chiseling me into something great and teaching me empathy. She got even more upset. I don't understand. What do you think happened there?

Damn That's a bad reaction for a therapist. But it is true suffering makes you have better considerations for others. She might have felt upset because either she thinks your view would make you not want to "recover" or seek help anymore? Because even its a positive thing, its coming out of a negative one. Thats my opinion anyways

 

[Dot]

Tbh slf d/ nt flly agree wth ur initl claim

Slf thnk tht thre r circmsntces whre persnl xperncs of therpst cn defntly mke a bg dffrnce & wll gve thm abilty t/ connct wth mre typs of ppl & hlp thm

Bt ds nt hve 2 mean tht thy r incapble of helpng n.e1 jst bcse thy mght nt hve suffrd as mch as othrs

Slf hve impressn tht u fl as tho u cn only connct wth & trst ppl wh/ hve walkd th/ sme pth as u whch = undrstndble -- rlatnshp wth therpst = cnsidrd 2 b th/ biggst factr in sccess of therpy s/ havng sme1 u connct wth wld b imprtnt

Am guessng tht persn = therpst bcse sh/ wnts 2 hlp ppl - & u r tellng hr tht bcse of hr lfe xpernce tht sh/ = nt capble of tht - s/ = undrstndble tht sh/ mght b upst bcse sh/ = b-ing tld tht bcse of wh/ sh/ = as a persn thn sh/ = in wrng jb

slf belve tht 2 b gd therpst = combnatn of lfe xpernce & trainng

B-iblng tramtisd cn also mke sme1 a terrbl therpst

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I mean everyone's suffered, that's like the defining point of how procreation is bad because everything that's ever lived has also suffered.

I doubt semantics and technicalities are why your therapist got upset though. Maybe they just couldn't think of a good reply to that. You can take pride that you "won" that exchange if you want.

 

[Ambivalent1]

I mean everyone's suffered, that's like the defining point of how procreation is bad because everything that's ever lived has also suffered.

I doubt semantics and technicalities are why your therapist got upset though. Maybe they just couldn't think of a good reply to that. You can take pride that you "won" that exchange if you want.

I won

Damn That's a bad reaction for a therapist. But it is true suffering makes you have better considerations for others. She might have felt upset because either she thinks your view would make you not want to "recover" or seek help anymore? Because even its a positive thing, its coming out of a negative one. Thats my opinion anyways

Do you know of david goggins? He was abused and has PTSD. He combats it by doing the opposite of what his emotions tell him. He tortures himself by taking cold showers, running marathons on broken legs, etc. But it works for him. Maybe what I told her sounds like what this guy does. I find suffering to be the tool to healing while she doesn't like that.

You challenged their authority over you. And probably their identity. What some consider 'help' doesn't necessarily help people. What people administer can even make someone worse. In my case psychiatry and sometimes medical 'help' in general damaged my body beyond repair.

Wow. I was just talking. I didn't realize it was such a big deal, so when she flipped out, I was confused.

 

[Bluebells]

Do you know of david goggins? He was abused and has PTSD. He combats it by doing the opposite of what his emotions tell him. He tortures himself by taking cold showers, running marathons on broken legs, etc. But it works for him. Maybe what I told her sounds like what this guy does. I find suffering to be the tool to healing while she doesn't like that.

I haven't no, but thats interesting. I'll have to search that up. She probably didnt like it because she didn't experience it herself. Thats mostly the problem when people who hasn't gone through something try to find solutions on them. Tricky thing with mental solutions is everyone would have their own way of solutions. She should've taken it as advice and knowledge rather than an argument over what she's studied being "wrong" tbh

 

[mellie5]

Hello -

Imagine spending 8 hours each day talking to people with CTB/depression/schizophrenia (you said therapist but that's so wide, so I'll be here the psichiatrist-psychotherapist). And you've gone through 4 years of medical school and 4 years of psychiatrist training. And up to 7 years of psychotherapy training depending on the kind of therapy.

Imagine you've threated successfully thousands of patients.

Now that day you are tired, you haven't slept well and somebody asks that question as one of the afternoon patients. The therapist might have patience and strength to explain things to you or just break down and have a "I just can't moment" because the emotional weight of the daily patients became too much.

Also consider that the therapist, in her life, might have had a LOT or problems. Abused as a child, raped and human trafficked and you have no idea. You are a patient and she can't tell you. It's possible she may have identified with you and relieved her own trauma. And it's possible you told her "you haven't suffered" when her parents were tortured in front of her and she had to live on the street. So don't assume "you haven't suffered". Her father could have died two days before and she has to keel her professional cool for her job. Sometimes people can no longer take it and get upset.

 

[Ambivalent1]

Hello -

Imagine spending 8 hours each day talking to people with CTB/depression/schizophrenia (you said therapist but that's so wide, so I'll be here the psichiatrist-psychotherapist). And you've gone through 4 years of medical school and 4 years of psychiatrist training. And up to 7 years of psychotherapy training depending on the kind of therapy.

Imagine you've threated successfully thousands of patients.

Now that day you are tired, you haven't slept well and somebody asks that question as one of the afternoon patients. The therapist might have patience and strength to explain things to you or just break down and have a "I just can't moment" because the emotional weight of the daily patients became too much.

Also consider that the therapist, in her life, might have had a LOT or problems. Abused as a child, raped and human trafficked and you have no idea. You are a patient and she can't tell you. It's possible she may have identified with you and relieved her own trauma. And it's possible you told her "you haven't suffered" when her parents were tortured in front of her and she had to live on the street. So don't assume "you haven't suffered". Her father could have died two days before and she has to keel her professional cool for her job. Sometimes people can no longer take it and get upset.

What I said was " how can someone help someone if they havent suffered themselves?" I never said she hadnt suffered.

I haven't no, but thats interesting. I'll have to search that up. She probably didnt like it because she didn't experience it herself. Thats mostly the problem when people who hasn't gone through something try to find solutions on them. Tricky thing with mental solutions is everyone would have their own way of solutions. She should've taken it as advice and knowledge rather than an argument over what she's studied being "wrong" tbh

She's just mad that I won and am now the therapist

You challenged their authority over you. And probably their identity. What some consider 'help' doesn't necessarily help people. What people administer can even make someone worse. In my case psychiatry and sometimes medical 'help' in general damaged my body beyond repair.

Do you think the therapeutic relationship is damaged beyond repair since I just outed myself as a difficult patient?

 

[ms_beaverhousen]

I've always thought those who have been through it would work better because they know exactly how it feels. I think your therapist was upset because they studied to be one so they understandably know a few things and how to "help" but experience counts a lot more than reading words off a book and thats just the truth

It's a hard a balance to find a good one who has the humility to not have their ego bruised and show it when challenged but have enough confidence to not fold even when the patient has given up. I'm a good listener, and while I'm opinionated I don't think I have the ego to one-on-one tell someone what to do with their lives. Like you think you're qualified to help people, or just waste their time and be paid for it. It's not a selfless or honest profession anymore in my eyes.

 

[Ambivalent1]

It's a hard a balance to find a good one who has the humility to not have their ego bruised and show it when challenged but have enough confidence to not fold even when the patient has given up. I'm a good listener, and while I'm opinionated I don't think I have the ego to one-on-one tell someone what to do with their lives. Like you think you're qualified to help people, or just waste their time and be paid for it. It's not a selfless or honest profession anymore in my eyes.

Therapists are losers

 

[ms_beaverhousen]

What I said was " how can someone help someone if they havent suffered themselves?" I never said she hadnt suffered.

She's just mad that I won and am now the therapist

Do you think the therapeutic relationship is damaged beyond repair since I just outed myself as a difficult patient?

It depends. It really shouldn't affect the relationship if she's a true professional. Like I had a mormon who had never said the "f" word be mine... He tried to teach me a few things but it was mainly an hour of sarcasm to deflect and make him laugh and to get by. If he were more prepared he could've helped me because he had never been super depressed. But he was green and a baby, and I only have the basic coverage. Thankfully ended up switching because I didn't want to see him more than the 1 week-a-month minimum and he has a policy against that so I was free! (A word of advice, be in touch with the office or whoever when switching because I got lost in the shuffle and didn't hear back from anyone for months until I called about my dr's appt, which found out I couldn't go to because no "therapist" was there to update my treatment plan.) Also, like I think someone who hasn't been SA can help someone who has. Same with drug use etc. However I totally get where you're coming from because you have to be able to relate to your therapist on some level. I don't expect them to tell me their deep dark past trauma secrets (they do because they like me though) but if they give you NOTHING, that's a problem. They're not emotionally available and we've just vulnerable messes at their mercy. How are we to trust them? Because they've been annointed, knight, certified? Whatever... If you're not personable to gain your patient's trust, as they're a stranger, you can't connect and they (we) can't be open or should be expected to. I was NOT feeling like my first therapist was going to be able to help me (they never do...) in particular, as she was my age if not a few years younger, and she gave me NOTHING to emotionally connect with. I should've reported her. I liked her personally, but not professionally. So I even told her that I feel nothing from her, know nothing about her, and therefore don't know how to talk to her or "open up" so I was tempted to see who she was by looking her up on facebook. She asked me not to do that somewhere in our quick back-and-forth conversation. I don't recall her asking me not to though. I wanted to look her up because if she had this grand life with all these perfectly posing pics, I didn't want her anymore. I did find her. She did have those perfect pics and I was like, "I'm not going to tell my life story and body issues to this woman in a sunset backdrop photo wearing a mid-driff showing formal dress on a rooftop at some event. Her life is the polar opposite of mine. Fuck this. Turns out, that wasnt her lol. I kept searching and found her fb. It was relatively private. Not a lot to go off of. All I could was she had some cute rainbow looking hair back in the day, and then turned them to dreads. I had an inkling she was gay already but this didn't confirm or deny it. It still gave nothing. When my mom asked about her I told her she was nice, but cold. So my mom agreed that how much can you get from someone who is more stoic than me and an icicle? I told my therapist I found her fb, why I looked for it, and that I didn't really gain what I was searching for. The next session she told me I would be having a new therapist. Strange thing is, the last session went rather okay even though I told her about me finding her. So I guess she was fake? or had time to fume over me invading her privacy? or she was going to be professional and never show her "hurt" or "outrage" towards me going against her wishes.
Later when I asked why, she said because she specifically asked that I not do that. I said I really didn't remember her saying that because if I knew she felt so strongly that that would upset I wouldn't have done it. She said she explicitly asked that I not do that. When I asked why she never told me (because we had a session after I told her and the next session she dumped me) she said she honestly didn't think I would care or be bothered by it. Well that's not her assumption to make. She probably just didn't have the balls to tell me I think. She had to sneakily drop me privately. Guess she never cared to begin with. She always did have this arrogance to her and that's what I didn't like either. Like your education means nothing if you can't apply it and if you suck as a person. This was her first go at being a therapist too. Her first batch of clients, EVER. (Lucky me...) So I got rehomed like a dog because I hurt her ego. Sure she felt like she couldn't trust me, but if she had given me ANYTHING but ice I wouldn't have felt the need to humanize her by stalking out her life. I apologized too and like hell I wanted to. It was unprofessional to just abruptly dump a client. I think she was gay and felt I outed her, or she at least didn't like that I knew. So her insecurities interfered with her ability to do her job imo.Plus she ate almonds while talking to me which is rude. We're not friends. You're being paid... you're on MY time. And I'm not worthy of your full attention? There was other crap too but you get the jist.

The mormon guy, I felt the same thing with him, sort of. Plus he said that he taught or something. I didn't feel he had pain in his life so I looked him up. I told him. He asked what did I find. He was surprised at my detective skills lol but wasn't offended. I guess because it's out there on the internet. I told him I found things like LDS, his brother (who had down-syndrome or something can't recall), and his brother's accomplishments etc. He said he didn't realize that much was out there, but he didnt have a fit. He also knew that I was a devout atheist (agnostic). I made fun of him (with respect) and he laughed. Professionalism much?

Hope this gave some insight. Do you want to continue with her/him? Do you like him/her?

 

[Ambivalent1]

It depends. It really shouldn't affect the relationship if she's a true professional. Like I had a mormon who had never said the "f" word be mine... He tried to teach me a few things but it was mainly an hour of sarcasm to deflect and make him laugh and to get by. If he were more prepared he could've helped me because he had never been super depressed. But he was green and a baby, and I only have the basic coverage. Thankfully ended up switching because I didn't want to see him more than the 1 week-a-month minimum and he has a policy against that so I was free! (A word of advice, be in touch with the office or whoever when switching because I got lost in the shuffle and didn't hear back from anyone for months until I called about my dr's appt, which found out I couldn't go to because no "therapist" was there to update my treatment plan.) Also, like I think someone who hasn't been SA can help someone who has. Same with drug use etc. However I totally get where you're coming from because you have to be able to relate to your therapist on some level. I don't expect them to tell me their deep dark past trauma secrets (they do because they like me though) but if they give you NOTHING, that's a problem. They're not emotionally available and we've just vulnerable messes at their mercy. How are we to trust them? Because they've been annointed, knight, certified? Whatever... If you're not personable to gain your patient's trust, as they're a stranger, you can't connect and they (we) can't be open or should be expected to. I was NOT feeling like my first therapist was going to be able to help me (they never do...) in particular, as she was my age if not a few years younger, and she gave me NOTHING to emotionally connect with. I should've reported her. I liked her personally, but not professionally. So I even told her that I feel nothing from her, know nothing about her, and therefore don't know how to talk to her or "open up" so I was tempted to see who she was by looking her up on facebook. She asked me not to do that somewhere in our quick back-and-forth conversation. I don't recall her asking me not to though. I wanted to look her up because if she had this grand life with all these perfectly posing pics, I didn't want her anymore. I did find her. She did have those perfect pics and I was like, "I'm not going to tell my life story and body issues to this woman in a sunset backdrop photo wearing a mid-driff showing formal dress on a rooftop at some event. Her life is the polar opposite of mine. Fuck this. Turns out, that wasnt her lol. I kept searching and found her fb. It was relatively private. Not a lot to go off of. All I could was she had some cute rainbow looking hair back in the day, and then turned them to dreads. I had an inkling she was gay already but this didn't confirm or deny it. It still gave nothing. When my mom asked about her I told her she was nice, but cold. So my mom agreed that how much can you get from someone who is more stoic than me and an icicle? I told my therapist I found her fb, why I looked for it, and that I didn't really gain what I was searching for. The next session she told me I would be having a new therapist. Strange thing is, the last session went rather okay even though I told her about me finding her. So I guess she was fake? or had time to fume over me invading her privacy? or she was going to be professional and never show her "hurt" or "outrage" towards me going against her wishes.
Later when I asked why, she said because she specifically asked that I not do that. I said I really didn't remember her saying that because if I knew she felt so strongly that that would upset I wouldn't have done it. She said she explicitly asked that I not do that. When I asked why she never told me (because we had a session after I told her and the next session she dumped me) she said she honestly didn't think I would care or be bothered by it. Well that's not her assumption to make. She probably just didn't have the balls to tell me I think. She had to sneakily drop me privately. Guess she never cared to begin with. She always did have this arrogance to her and that's what I didn't like either. Like your education means nothing if you can't apply it and if you suck as a person. This was her first go at being a therapist too. Her first batch of clients, EVER. (Lucky me...) So I got rehomed like a dog because I hurt her ego. Sure she felt like she couldn't trust me, but if she had given me ANYTHING but ice I wouldn't have felt the need to humanize her by stalking out her life. I apologized too and like hell I wanted to. It was unprofessional to just abruptly dump a client. I think she was gay and felt I outed her, or she at least didn't like that I knew. So her insecurities interfered with her ability to do her job imo.Plus she ate almonds while talking to me which is rude. We're not friends. You're being paid... you're on MY time. And I'm not worthy of your full attention? There was other crap too but you get the jist.

The mormon guy, I felt the same thing with him, sort of. Plus he said that he taught or something. I didn't feel he had pain in his life so I looked him up. I told him. He asked what did I find. He was surprised at my detective skills lol but wasn't offended. I guess because it's out there on the internet. I told him I found things like LDS, his brother (who had down-syndrome or something can't recall), and his brother's accomplishments etc. He said he didn't realize that much was out there, but he didnt have a fit. He also knew that I was a devout atheist (agnostic). I made fun of him (with respect) and he laughed. Professionalism much?

Hope this gave some insight. Do you want to continue with her/him? Do you like him/her?

I want to continue because I've seen so many already that I don't want to continue with another after her. Over a dozen therapists and all fucking useless.

 

[ms_beaverhousen]

I want to continue because I've seen so many already that I don't want to continue with another after her. Over a dozen therapists and all fucking useless.

Then continue, and if you dont act weird about it, she probably wont either. Or, if you want to address that little tidbit, you can, and say it's been on your mind and don't want it to infringe on your sessions or be an elephant or overhanging cloud and want to get some clarification on it.

I hear that. I've seen probably twice as many. All useless. My last one, who I actually like, pretty much dumped me because she was moving onto bigger and better things, but she said she wasn't going without her clients, and that they said she could take them. Then I get a text saying "Turns out..." that she can't lol. What a joke. Now I'm paranoid and I'm never really paranoid. I meet my new one on Mon. Sort of a rocky start already. Will be too because I'm saying from the get, that I just want to do the bare minimum to be able to receive medication. Hope your next session goes well. Let us know.