Why are you considering or going to die by suicide?

[El Topo]

It's pretty easy to argue Jesus committed suicide by cop.

LOL, nice way of putting it.

As Camus said, "There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide."

 

[El Topo]

Have you ever dead Ernest Becker's The Denial of Death? If not, I think you'd find it interesting.

I was going to recommend the same book.

 

[El Topo]

This is an enlightening discussion, and I think people might be interested in The Order of the Good Death, an organization that is trying to create a "death-positive" movement: http://www.orderofthegooddeath.com/

Their mission: "The Order is about making death a part of your life. That means committing to staring down your death fears- whether it be your own death, the death of those you love, the pain of dying, the afterlife (or lack thereof), grief, corpses, bodily decomposition, or all of the above. Accepting that death itself is natural, but the death anxiety and terror of modern culture are not."

 

[millefeui]

This is an enlightening discussion, and I think people might be interested in The Order of the Good Death, an organization that is trying to create a "death-positive" movement: http://www.orderofthegooddeath.com/

Their mission: "The Order is about making death a part of your life. That means committing to staring down your death fears- whether it be your own death, the death of those you love, the pain of dying, the afterlife (or lack thereof), grief, corpses, bodily decomposition, or all of the above. Accepting that death itself is natural, but the death anxiety and terror of modern culture are not."

If all of those members are real people (still alive or not) instead of "bots" (for a lack of better word), The Order has quite a lot of supporters. Interesting.

 

[Sonnenblume]

I think the members are legit, the founder is a real mortician and a popular personality on youtube.

 

[MAIO]

Have you ever dead Ernest Becker's The Denial of Death? If not, I think you'd find it interesting.

I will check it out. It's looks pretty interesting. Wikipedia says it expands on Sigmund Freud theories. He has alot of crazy theories.

 

[MAIO]

it's hard to imagine but i like to think about what the world would be like if there wasn't so much fear. fear of death, even talking about death—take that away and what would happen? i' not afraid of death—at least i don't think i am—it's suffering that i fear. the suffering that accompanies death in most cases. i have this image of a door that i would just walk through if i could, and on the other side is not-life. if the passage to not-life were that painless i would already be gone. and i'd have been holding my cat on the way through.

The suffering that accompanies death is temporary and can be completely avoided if you choose the right method. Suicide is hard for so many reasons. Your body and old brain want to live, no matter what is best for you. While the rational part of your brain wants to die. So this typically create conflict. Due to their being conflict people will make bizarre arguments like conflict means you do not want to die. It may actually be more reasonable/rational to make the decision when you are not absolutely certain as we probably do not have enough information to make a decision like that with absolute certainty expect under unusual circumstances. 1)We do not know what death is. 2)We have innate built bias(s) like a fear of death etc.Greece and Rome for instance had very lax attitudes towards suicide. Death was not seen as this terrible tragic thing.

 

[MAIO]

i understand the lines but they would have to be on a sphere in order to eventually intersect?

So imagine a 2d graph. There is a line that runs horizontally across the x axis. It can only be moved on the y axis depending on what death is = to. There is another line = to life. This line can move on the x and y axis. It goes up and down. So the closest example I can think of in relation to death is a eternal dreamless sleep. So let's replace death with sleep. How does your life compare to sleep? How do people usually feel about sleep? They love it. It's not something people avoid, they want to experience as much sleep as possible. Since life is worse than most people think, the value of life goes down. Does that make sense? I wish I could put graphs on here it would make it so much easier to explain.

 

[MAIO]

You actually hit some of Humes points in a nice modern way.

And I agree. If eternal hell exists, I almost feel a moral obligation to shun heaven.

I would feel morally obligated to shun heaven. Praise a deity for all of eternity or burn forever. I would accuse God of a false dichotomy. I want another choice.

 

[Sonnenblume]

So imagine a 2d graph. There is a line that runs horizontally across the x axis. It can only be moved on the y axis depending on what death is = to. There is another line = to life. This line can move on the x and y axis. It goes up and down. So the closest example I can think of in relation to death is a eternal dreamless sleep. So let's replace death with sleep. How does your life compare to sleep? How do people usually feel about sleep? They love it. It's not something people avoid, they want to experience as much sleep as possible. Since life is worse than most people think, the value of life goes down. Does that make sense? I wish I could put graphs on here it would make it so much easier to explain.

suicide math ftw!

 

[MAIO]

suicide math ftw!

Talking to other people about the math is so frustrating. They be like all that matter is the positives, negatives are irelavent and death is irrelavent.

 

[Sonnenblume]

Talking to other people about the math is so frustrating. They be like all that matter is the positives, negatives are irelavent and death is irrelavent.

No, I get it. I basically did the same math when I was young. Then read David Benatar's Better Never To Have Been a few years ago, he essentially says the same. Add to it that all happiness is founded on need, a state of deprivation. Without existence, there's no negative state to have to climb out of. You're not "missing out on the good things" as the pro-lifer's like to babble about. You're preventing the negative states that create the desire for better states. It's just glaringly obvious. You know what got me thinking about it? The first time I read that kids book If You Give a Mouse a Cookie. LOL I was a weird child.

 

[sadak_the_wanderer]

I'm painfully lonely and likely to remain that way. I haven't had so much as a date in over twenty years. I have an unpleasant disorder that will only get worse. Typically, I am the first person to be left out of plans, no matter how hard I try to be someone important to someone else. Strangers have, unprompted, insulted the appearance of my face. I do not particularly care for my job and I do not think they want me there. I do not look forward to much, only little distractions that might pass for pleasure if I do not closely look at them. Sometimes I read, or watch a movie, but I do not find myself anticipating my enjoyment of them. "You will never get to see the fiftieth Marvel movie" is not much of a reason to stick around.

Overall, I do not feel particularly wanted for anything but my usefulness to others, and even that is marginal.

The best case scenario for my future is not a pretty one. To be fair, I have always longed for non-existence since I was aware that it was an option and only had hopes (now dashed) that something might change, that things might have gotten better, but after decades of disappointment and various doors slamming shut in my face, that I no longer believe in that or anything but the comfort of non having to be.

 

[MAIO]

No, I get it. I basically did the same math when I was young. Then read David Benatar's Better Never To Have Been a few years ago, he essentially says the same. Add to it that all happiness is founded on need, a state of deprivation. Without existence, there's no negative state to have to climb out of. You're not "missing out on the good things" as the pro-lifer's like to babble about. You're preventing the negative states that create the desire for better states. It's just glaringly obvious. You know what got me thinking about it? The first time I read that kids book If You Give a Mouse a Cookie. LOL I was a weird child.

Have you ever wrote down your thoughts on all this and saved it? If so I would love to see it.

 

[SleepItOff]

Chronic illness. My body and brain are breaking down in tandem right now-we've thrown everything there is to throw at it, but the particularities of my case make treatment virtually impossible. And very, very costly. I won't get into the details (would sound melodramatic if I did) but my quality of life is slipping away rapidly, and I don't want to cost my family any more than I already have. It's not likely there will be cures or significant progress for treatments in my lifetime, and I sincerely want to close the book instead of enduring more years of being a guinea pig, while giving false hope to the ones that care about me. My decision is both selfish and rational. With the rate that my health is declining, I'm fearful that if I'm not able to do it soon, my faculties may give out & I'll lose my chance entirely.

 

[Tiredman]

A mixture of illnesses, injuries and a lifetime of having to pretend to fit in because society sucks and shuns people who are different. I'm a nerdy overweight half-native kid who lives in a city ruled by racist rig pigs.

 

[El Topo]

My decision is both selfish and rational.

What a bold, succinct way of putting it: "selfish and rational."

 

[SleepItOff]

What a bold, succinct way of putting it: "selfish and rational."

If nothing else, I try to be honest

 

[alice-jane]

I'm painfully lonely and likely to remain that way. I haven't had so much as a date in over twenty years. I have an unpleasant disorder that will only get worse. Typically, I am the first person to be left out of plans, no matter how hard I try to be someone important to someone else. Strangers have, unprompted, insulted the appearance of my face. I do not particularly care for my job and I do not think they want me there. I do not look forward to much, only little distractions that might pass for pleasure if I do not closely look at them. Sometimes I read, or watch a movie, but I do not find myself anticipating my enjoyment of them. "You will never get to see the fiftieth Marvel movie" is not much of a reason to stick around.

Overall, I do not feel particularly wanted for anything but my usefulness to others, and even that is marginal.

The best case scenario for my future is not a pretty one. To be fair, I have always longed for non-existence since I was aware that it was an option and only had hopes (now dashed) that something might change, that things might have gotten better, but after decades of disappointment and various doors slamming shut in my face, that I no longer believe in that or anything but the comfort of non having to be.

i sympathize with you and am sorry to hear things are so rough. i don't enjoy much of anything either. my looks are going as i age, making me realize how useful they were to me and how maybe i used them too much and now have little to show for my life. i have an AA sponsor, a nice roommate, and a beautiful cat that will be hard to leave. i have been hoping things would get better for a long time too and make efforts in fits and starts when depression isn't incapacitating. but i always end up back in the state of dread and fear with no motivation to keep going.

 

[typx]

It's a total loss of hope for the future. The thing I realize now is that hope is all I've really been running on. Self-hatred and a lack of any motivation were covered by substance abuse and hope for the future. Now they are both gone and I'm left with extreme loneliness and zero possibility for a better tomorrow.

 

[typx]

I'm a nerdy overweight half-native kid who lives in a city ruled by racist rig pigs.

Sounds like somewhere in Alberta, Canada.

 

[Tiredman]

Sounds like somewhere in Alberta, Canada.

You'd be safe to assume so.

 

[Sonnenblume]

Have you ever wrote down your thoughts on all this and saved it? If so I would love to see it.

Yeah, I was writing a philosophy book a couple years ago but then became ill and stopped. but now I've wiped most of my files to prepare for ctb, so I don't have any of my writing anymore. I was a shit writer anyways. :P

 

[typx]

You'd be safe to assume so.

I've never been to that city but I've dealt with their type in another area of Canada. I can't imagine how harsh that would be for you. They are, from my experience, insensitive dicks who get off on being bullies.

 

[ion900]

To many to list but here are some. Theres just no reason for me to continue anymore. Nothing interest me. The one thing i did enjoy (orgasms) i cant enjoy anymore (sex drives dead) and im bored out of my mind. My family thinks im a loser. I suck at everything i do (which is why i think im so bored). I sit around all day staring at the wall. Cant get a job and live off parents with SSI and I'm mentally disfigured. Lastly my method is painless which makes killing myself even more appealing. Why wait for a painful death under these circumstances? Ill be out of here in less than two weeks. I cant wait.

aye good luck- is it nembutal?

 

[ion900]

I'm in extreme chronic pain, am very disabled, can't work in this condition or take proper care of myself. Can't even leave the house my legs hurt so bad. I had to give up my cat and he was pretty much the only thing worth sticking around for. My mother's a dumb religious cunt who was a pathetic excuse for a parent to me growing up. I like very few people, the few I have anything in common with all live very far away. The friends I had around here are pretentious, quasi-religious, pollyana morons who can't respect other's rights (like the right to die). I only liked them because I was very lonely and there aren't any better options, if I'm honest. I'm too disabled and ugly to get the type of romantic relationship I'd really want, if I wanted a relationship. So I end up going for losers I don't really even want. Though, realistically, it'd turn to shit sooner or later even if I could find a good man. And no one listens to disabled people if they aren't "inspirational" (or maybe funny, I am funny, but I don't like to be) and do the happy cripple dance so my capacity to create any social change is slim. They definitely don't listen if you're realistic about life and want the right to die. There's nothing to hang around for.

I really dislike it when people don't understand your death wish but that is just because they are brainwashed. Don't take it seriously, only retardedly. Christian religion has one thing right, the father, son and holy spirit represent the birth(before), life(middle) and death(end period). I believe in energy being the creator (good vs evil). (see cosmic egg video)

 

[Malice1]

aye good luck- is it nembutal?

Yeah it is. Having a hard time beating the survival instinct though. I haven't opened them yet either.

 

[ion900]

I understand. No matter what belief you have though, you will only really know if there is a punishment or not once you die. Well, unless you subscribe to the "personal heaven" belief, which is a bit too "wishful thinking" for me to subscribe to. Nothing in life or death could possibly be that good.

I grew up in a family full of Christians, so I understand where you are coming from. Fear of what comes next was suffocating for me a few years back. Right now I don't really care that much anymore. My life wasn't all that productive, and I don't believe in any gods, so if there is anything like that, I am likely to be punished regardless of killing myself or not.

All I can do is hope for the best.

Personal heaven really isn't a stretch.

 

[ion900]

You actually hit some of Humes points in a nice modern way.

And I agree. If eternal hell exists, I almost feel a moral obligation to shun heaven.

HEaven and HEll are just reminders that your opinion of yourself being good or bad is what really matters.

most of my life, I have wanted to kill myself out of self-hate I will never enjoy life and never have . i hate my life and body

I still hate myself much of the time

Regardless of whether I am at fault for my problems im going to end my life all be glad when i end my life i know i need to end my life vary soon

Have you ever been sexy physically?

 

[ion900]

Yeah it is. Having a hard time beating the survival instinct though. I haven't opened them yet either.

lucky person-try thinking about it opportunistically. Also find self admiration in your clearheaded problem solving