Why are you considering or going to die by suicide?

[MAIO]

Personally, I will probably die by suicide as a result of philosophical beliefs. I agree with certain branches of philosophy that say, I need to determine if I think the game of life is worth playing. If no I better commit suicide, that is the logical thing to do. If on the other hand I am not sure I better find out, because if I am going on and on, I am not sure if it's worth it, I will make a mess out of it. Which is probably why I am, where I am in my life, I have not decided if I want to play the game or not for forever. I now fully understand the history of suicide, how it became the most stigmatized issue in society due to religious reasons,that stem from economic reasons. It was seen as a mental illness relatively recently on the basis of a religious world view(suicide could never make sense if you go to hell for committing suicide for instance). I have been trying to figure out what I would do without a bias to live or die. I have a slight bias to die(However I know that is much less of a bias that the bias to live etc) I know it's close to the line but it's hard to determine where exactly it it. Some people will try to get around this by saying pain to family etc can shift where it is but I reject that. For starters suicide hurts family mainly due to extreme stigmatism. I am not responsible that I happen to live in a time where suicide is extremely stigmatized. I have to make this decision on the sole basis of what is best for me personally, you can conveniently apply morality and call that selfish, I call it rational.

 

[Kfoe!12]

I really can't tell you why exactly, that's the curse of depression.

If I had to guess it would be my very unhealthy ways to see the world and relationships, it feels like nobody is genuine and my core value for "genuine" is something which is unable to reach without some sort of supernatural force and this makes relationships seem worthless and downright depressing, the most real of feels isn't seen as "genuine" to me, it's not enough.

Doesn't make much sense, does it?

 

[Malice1]

To many to list but here are some. Theres just no reason for me to continue anymore. Nothing interest me. The one thing i did enjoy (orgasms) i cant enjoy anymore (sex drives dead) and im bored out of my mind. My family thinks im a loser. I suck at everything i do (which is why i think im so bored). I sit around all day staring at the wall. Cant get a job and live off parents with SSI and I'm mentally disfigured. Lastly my method is painless which makes killing myself even more appealing. Why wait for a painful death under these circumstances? Ill be out of here in less than two weeks. I cant wait.

 

[FullFat]

For most of my life, I have wanted to kill myself out of self-hatred. Now, it is more about knowing that I will never enjoy life. The best I can hope for is barely tolerating it through extensive damage control.

I still hate myself much of the time, but the intensity has tamped down considerably. Occasionally, I even manage to pity myself, or at least recognize that a lot of this is beyond my control.

Regardless of whether I am at fault for my problems, life just no longer seems worth the effort. The suicide question has been reduced to a cost/benefit analysis.

 

[alice-jane]

I really can't tell you why exactly, that's the curse of depression.

If I had to guess it would be my very unhealthy ways to see the world and relationships, it feels like nobody is genuine and my core value for "genuine" is something which is unable to reach without some sort of supernatural force and this makes relationships seem worthless and downright depressing, the most real of feels isn't seen as "genuine" to me, it's not enough.

Doesn't make much sense, does it?

maybe you are an HSP? (highly sensitive person) i definitely am. everything lacks sensitivity and authenticity. most everything. maybe not all.

 

[Sonnenblume]

I'm in extreme chronic pain, am very disabled, can't work in this condition or take proper care of myself. Can't even leave the house my legs hurt so bad. I had to give up my cat and he was pretty much the only thing worth sticking around for. My mother's a dumb religious cunt who was a pathetic excuse for a parent to me growing up. I like very few people, the few I have anything in common with all live very far away. The friends I had around here are pretentious, quasi-religious, pollyana morons who can't respect other's rights (like the right to die). I only liked them because I was very lonely and there aren't any better options, if I'm honest. I'm too disabled and ugly to get the type of romantic relationship I'd really want, if I wanted a relationship. So I end up going for losers I don't really even want. Though, realistically, it'd turn to shit sooner or later even if I could find a good man. And no one listens to disabled people if they aren't "inspirational" (or maybe funny, I am funny, but I don't like to be) and do the happy cripple dance so my capacity to create any social change is slim. They definitely don't listen if you're realistic about life and want the right to die. There's nothing to hang around for.

 

[millefeui]

I do not like my life. Never have, never will. The reasons for that are many, ranging from my appearance to sexuality and gender issues to disliking reality and feeling like I don't belong in it. As time passed, I began to dislike living in this world as a whole, rather than only disliking my own life, which made my posture change from "I wish to reincarnate someday (but only under my own conditions)" to "I want nothingness".

I am that kind of crazy person who would like to live in an anime world, a better place than here. Perhaps not so much better (it depends on the world/universe, anyways), but if only I could have any drive to live, that would be great. I have been this way for as long as I remember. Spending so much time in my head, picturing myself in a different world, as a different person (or not person)... I always thought anime worlds to be beautiful. The visual simplicity of things, how the people bend rules like nothing (like changing eye style as an expression or becoming black and white when shocked... Stuff like that... I always loved it), etc. What we call "real life" is just so boring in comparison. For me, at least.

With time, unfortunately, I lost most of my ability to immerse myself in my imagination, which also contributes to my desire to die. I feel trapped in this place, moreso than ever. My only way to leave it is when I am sleeping and dreaming, but it is like rolling a dice. What kind of dream I have... There is no way for me control it. I don't have such ability.

Because my desires are impossible (by logical standards, anyways), I don't wish for an afterlife or anything of sorts. I just want to disappear. Nothingness. The idea brings me so much peace. I just want peace and I know nothingness won't bring me that, technically... It won't bring my anything, as I will stop to exist altogether. But that is okay.

 

[Sonnenblume]

I do not like my life. Never have, never will. The reasons for that are many, ranging from my appearance to sexuality and gender issues to disliking reality and feeling like I don't belong in it. As time passed, I began to dislike living in this world as a whole, rather than only disliking my own life, which made my posture change from "I wish to reincarnate someday (but only under my own conditions)" to "I want nothingness".

I am that kind of crazy person who would like to live in an anime world, a better place than here. Perhaps not so much better (it depends on the world/universe, anyways), but if only I could have any drive to live, that would be great. I have been this way for as long as I remember. Spending so much time in my head, picturing myself in a different world, as a different person (or not person)... I always thought anime worlds to be beautiful. The visual simplicity of things, how the people bend rules like nothing (like changing eye style as an expression or becoming black and white when shocked... Stuff like that... I always loved it), etc. What we call "real life" is just so boring in comparison. For me, at least.

With time, unfortunately, I lost most of my ability to immerse myself in my imagination, which also contributes to my desire to die. I feel trapped in this place, moreso than ever. My only way to leave it is when I am sleeping and dreaming, but it is like rolling a dice. What kind of dream I have... There is no way for me control it. I don't have such ability.

Because my desires are impossible (by logical standards, anyways), I don't wish for an afterlife or anything of sorts. I just want to disappear. Nothingness. The idea brings me so much peace. I just want peace and I know nothingness won't bring me that, technically... It won't bring my anything, as I will stop to exist altogether. But that is okay.

My standards are impossibly high as well. I'd never choose to come back to this shitty planet either, even if I could be a beautiful millionaire or whatever. It's just too much of a cesspool for my sensibilities. But if I had to live I'd be cool on a pretty planet with a bunch of kitties (who didn't need to eat other animals to survive, and were always reasonably comfortable). Anime style cat world would be awesome, come to think lol. When I was younger I wanted to make mangas based on an all cat world, actually, but it wouldn't make any money so I didn't bother.

 

[Kfoe!12]

maybe you are an HSP? (highly sensitive person) i definitely am. everything lacks sensitivity and authenticity. most everything. maybe not all.

I do have autism which makes me more sensitive to sounds, texture, smell, colors and etc.
However, I do doubt this is somehow relevant to nothing feeling authentic, or am I misunderstanding what HSP means?

 

[El Topo]

And no one listens to disabled people if they aren't "inspirational" (or maybe funny, I am funny, but I don't like to be) and do the happy cripple dance so my capacity to create any social change is slim.

"Happy cripple dance"... oh god I love that

 

[Sonnenblume]

"Happy cripple dance"... oh god I love that

Well that's pretty much what cripples are around for lol, so people can get their daily inspiration porn. The disabled that won't play that game, at least a bit, are doomed.

 

[alice-jane]

I do have autism which makes me more sensitive to sounds, texture, smell, colors and etc.
However, I do doubt this is somehow relevant to nothing feeling authentic, or am I misunderstanding what HSP means?[/QUOTE

I do have autism which makes me more sensitive to sounds, texture, smell, colors and etc.
However, I do doubt this is somehow relevant to nothing feeling authentic, or am I misunderstanding what HSP means?

i'm not sure but i just assume that part of being hsp is having different standards for what feels genuine or authentic. probably only because you're picking up vibes at a deeper or more refined level.

 

[alice-jane]

Personally, I will probably die by suicide as a result of philosophical beliefs. I agree with certain branches of philosophy that say, I need to determine if I think the game of life is worth playing. If no I better commit suicide, that is the logical thing to do. If on the other hand I am not sure I better find out, because if I am going on and on, I am not sure if it's worth it, I will make a mess out of it. Which is probably why I am, where I am in my life, I have not decided if I want to play the game or not for forever. I now fully understand the history of suicide, how it became the most stigmatized issue in society due to religious reasons,that stem from economic reasons. It was seen as a mental illness relatively recently on the basis of a religious world view(suicide could never make sense if you go to hell for committing suicide for instance). I have been trying to figure out what I would do without a bias to live or die. I have a slight bias to die(However I know that is much less of a bias that the bias to live etc) I know it's close to the line but it's hard to determine where exactly it it. Some people will try to get around this by saying pain to family etc can shift where it is but I reject that. For starters suicide hurts family mainly due to extreme stigmatism. I am not responsible that I happen to live in a time where suicide is extremely stigmatized. I have to make this decision on the sole basis of what is best for me personally, you can conveniently apply morality and call that selfish, I call it rational.

where have you learned about the history of it? i am curious to learn more. i also want validation of my hunch that societal brainwashing—that suicide is morally wrong and the circles of hell await—is completely unfounded and just another way to control people.

 

[wanttodie]

most of my life, I have wanted to kill myself out of self-hate I will never enjoy life and never have . i hate my life and body

I still hate myself much of the time

Regardless of whether I am at fault for my problems im going to end my life all be glad when i end my life i know i need to end my life vary soon

 

[millefeui]

where have you learned about the history of it? i am curious to learn more. i also want validation of my hunch that societal brainwashing—that suicide is morally wrong and the circles of hell await—is completely unfounded and just another way to control people.

Hell is nonsense, but pretty much every religious teaching I studied/read about condemns suicide in a way or another. Exceptions are (correct me if I am wrong), Shinto (which isn't a religion, technically) and also some really underground religion I forgot the name (there is a page about it on wikipedia, but there is no way I am looking for it now).

Whether that means people really try hard to control what others do with their live through religion or it means killing yourself is definitely a bad thing, well... That is up to the person's interpretation. But it is not something exclusive to Christianity and similar religious teachings.

I don't have an opinion on it. All I can do is hope nothing bad awaits me.

 

[Kfoe!12]

i'm not sure but i just assume that part of being hsp is having different standards for what feels genuine or authentic. probably only because you're picking up vibes at a deeper or more refined level.

Now when you spell it out loud there might actually be some truth in it.

 

[mwu14]

I do not like my life. Never have, never will. The reasons for that are many, ranging from my appearance to sexuality and gender issues to disliking reality and feeling like I don't belong in it. As time passed, I began to dislike living in this world as a whole, rather than only disliking my own life, which made my posture change from "I wish to reincarnate someday (but only under my own conditions)" to "I want nothingness".

I am that kind of crazy person who would like to live in an anime world, a better place than here. Perhaps not so much better (it depends on the world/universe, anyways), but if only I could have any drive to live, that would be great. I have been this way for as long as I remember. Spending so much time in my head, picturing myself in a different world, as a different person (or not person)... I always thought anime worlds to be beautiful. The visual simplicity of things, how the people bend rules like nothing (like changing eye style as an expression or becoming black and white when shocked... Stuff like that... I always loved it), etc. What we call "real life" is just so boring in comparison. For me, at least.

With time, unfortunately, I lost most of my ability to immerse myself in my imagination, which also contributes to my desire to die. I feel trapped in this place, moreso than ever. My only way to leave it is when I am sleeping and dreaming, but it is like rolling a dice. What kind of dream I have... There is no way for me control it. I don't have such ability.

Because my desires are impossible (by logical standards, anyways), I don't wish for an afterlife or anything of sorts. I just want to disappear. Nothingness. The idea brings me so much peace. I just want peace and I know nothingness won't bring me that, technically... It won't bring my anything, as I will stop to exist altogether. But that is okay.

My story is similar to yours except for the gender issues. Also other cartoons and fiction instead of anime.

 

[Squidward]

where have you learned about the history of it? i am curious to learn more. i also want validation of my hunch that societal brainwashing—that suicide is morally wrong and the circles of hell await—is completely unfounded and just another way to control people.

It sounds like you might be looking for David Hume, he was a great critic of religion. Here's an essay specifically about suicide, followed by one on the immortality of the soul.

http://www.davidhume.org/texts/suis.html

Thomas szasz is another good pro-choice author. But he comes from a psychiatric perspective, rather than a religious one.

 

[alice-jane]

It sounds like you might be looking for David Hume, he was a great critic of religion. Here's an essay specifically about suicide, followed by one on the immortality of the soul.

http://www.davidhume.org/texts/suis.html

Thomas szasz is another good pro-choice author. But he comes from a psychiatric perspective, rather than a religious one.

thank you

 

[millefeui]

It sounds like you might be looking for David Hume, he was a great critic of religion. Here's an essay specifically about suicide, followed by one on the immortality of the soul.

http://www.davidhume.org/texts/suis.html

Thomas szasz is another good pro-choice author. But he comes from a psychiatric perspective, rather than a religious one.

This seems interesting. I will give it a read.

 

[alice-jane]

Hell is nonsense, but pretty much every religious teaching I studied/read about condemns suicide in a way or another. Exceptions are (correct me if I am wrong), Shinto (which isn't a religion, technically) and also some really underground religion I forgot the name (there is a page about it on wikipedia, but there is no way I am looking for it now).

Whether that means people really try hard to control what others do with their live through religion or it means killing yourself is definitely a bad thing, well... That is up to the person's interpretation. But it is not something exclusive to Christianity and similar religious teachings.

I don't have an opinion on it. All I can do is hope nothing bad awaits me.

i feel like i need a little more belief that there is really no punishment for doing it. i think it's because i am used to punishment as a tool that was supposed to teach me things. my parents were pretty authoritarian and it's hard to break out of that mindset. i took some classes in buddhism and it appealed to me more than any other philosophy. i will look into shintoism. thank you.

 

[millefeui]

i feel like i need a little more belief that there is really no punishment for doing it. i think it's because i am used to punishment as a tool that was supposed to teach me things. my parents were pretty authoritarian and it's hard to break out of that mindset. i took some classes in buddhism and it appealed to me more than any other philosophy. i will look into shintoism. thank you.

I understand. No matter what belief you have though, you will only really know if there is a punishment or not once you die. Well, unless you subscribe to the "personal heaven" belief, which is a bit too "wishful thinking" for me to subscribe to. Nothing in life or death could possibly be that good.

I grew up in a family full of Christians, so I understand where you are coming from. Fear of what comes next was suffocating for me a few years back. Right now I don't really care that much anymore. My life wasn't all that productive, and I don't believe in any gods, so if there is anything like that, I am likely to be punished regardless of killing myself or not.

All I can do is hope for the best.

 

[MAIO]

Hell is nonsense, but pretty much every religious teaching I studied/read about condemns suicide in a way or another. Exceptions are (correct me if I am wrong), Shinto (which isn't a religion, technically) and also some really underground religion I forgot the name (there is a page about it on wikipedia, but there is no way I am looking for it now).

Whether that means people really try hard to control what others do with their live through religion or it means killing yourself is definitely a bad thing, well... That is up to the person's interpretation. But it is not something exclusive to Christianity and similar religious teachings.

I don't have an opinion on it. All I can do is hope nothing bad awaits me.

For starters the entire concept of hell is very immoral. Eternal torture for a finite crime? How could you be happy in heaven knowing people are being tortured forever on the basis of belief? Something that isn't even a choice.(For instance I can not choose to believe Florida is in the arctic circle, I would have to be convinced by new information etc Religious beliefs work the same way.)

It also makes no sense. We are supposedly condemned because Adam and Eve ate from the tree when they did not know the difference between right and wrong.
1) How it is wrong if they did not know the difference between right and wrong?
2) This story goes against evolution.
3)Free will clear does not exist. So it makes absolutely no sense to blame the watch instead of watch maker.
4) Later Jesus sends his son to die to on the cross (human sacrifice)
5) Stays dead for 3 days(How is that equivalent to eternal torture? or even much of a sacrifice)
?6) How does belief(or guil ability based on where you were born(religious beliefs are largely culture ie if you are born in India you will be a Hindu instead of christian etc,) which is not even a choice determine heaven or hell for all of eternity?
7) What is the point in hell? Eternal torment? After a billion years the person still needs to be tortured? What is that going to do?
8) Praise God eternally in heaven? How much of an ego does God have that he created creatures to praise him forever?

Judaism and Christianity do not condemn suicide. Islam has a verse condemning suicide. Pagan religions do not condemn suicide. Commandment 6 is usually used against suicide. Commandments 6-10 refer to other people, not self. So Thou shalt murder refers to others not self. God backs and enables Samson suicide. It's pretty easy to argue Jesus committed suicide by cop. There is nothing is the Torah or bible that says suicide is wrong. It just weird interpretations the church ran with in response to suicide pacts. The church was concerned largely for economic reasons.

"Life is a gift" does not makes sense a gift by definition. A gift by defintion means you were giving something without expecting in return. If you expect something in return it's not a gift.

"God's will that we stay alive, so its going against God will to kill ourselves."

Absent a guide or instruction manual, If we all have to go on is a creator that has given us life we can't infer that suicide is against God's will. If we accept that it is against God's will to kill yourself, why would is also not be against God's will to save someone life ? A person is walking along a street about to get hit by a bus so you push them out of the way, should the person respond with how dare you do that !? It's against God's will! It was God's will I be hit by that bus! If we are a doctor should we say I must not save the patient, it's God will that they die ? No one says that. Why is the argument any better in the case of suicide ? You might say it's was God's will that I save your life, so why not say the same thing about suicide ? It's was God's will that I be in this situation and God's will that I kill myself. Absent any special instruction manual from God, God's will argument cuts both ways. We do not know if it's God will that we act or God's will that we do not act. Absent an instruction manual from God. So this argument is dismissed as can't conclude it's for or against God's will.

"Instruction manual from God says it's against God's will."

For instance someone may say the bible says suicide is wrong. Since the bible is God's word we must do what it says. There are a lot of assumptions behind this argument we would need to really analyze. Is there a God ? Has God expressed his morality in a book ? If so what book ? Do we have moral reason to obey God ? If we do have an obligation to obey instruction manual are we prepared to actually obey it ? Even if there is a sentence that says not to commit suicide, (as in Koran) there are a lot of other things in the instruction manual that we are not inclined to do. The instruction manual tells you that if a teenager is rude to their parents they should be stoned to death. How many of you think that is a moral requirement ? If you are going to pick and choose what parts of the instruction manual you think are morally relevant, than you can't come to me and say suicide is wrong because the instruction manual says so. As you are not really using the instruction manual to give you moral guidance. You are starting with your moral beliefs and picking and choosing which bits and pieces of the instruction manual you want to accept.

Etc

 

[MAIO]

where have you learned about the history of it? i am curious to learn more. i also want validation of my hunch that societal brainwashing—that suicide is morally wrong and the circles of hell await—is completely unfounded and just another way to control people.

That is a very long response. I will write in a little. Basically what you said. To top it of scientific liteture supports something I have always thought was ovbious but people have a hard time accepting. People, espically happy people do not have accurate preceptions of our own life. People are much less happy than they think with the brain remembering positives and forgetting negative(life is much more negative and worse than people usually remember), people are pressured to lie about being happy, when people talk about death they generally set it to a terrible tragic experience rather than something neutral or a eternal sleep even though they believe death is a neutral or heaven or whatever. Basically if you think of a graph with life being a life that goes up and down and death being a horizontal line that goes accross it. It's obvious both of the arrows skyrocket towards each other its just hard to determine how far. I will write it in a little if you
read it.

 

[Sonnenblume]

That is a very long response. I will write in a little. Basically what you said. To top it of scientific liteture supports something I have always thought was ovbious but people have a hard time accepting. People, espically happy people do not have accurate preceptions of our own life. People are much less happy than they think with the brain remembering positives and forgetting negative(life is much more negative and worse than people usually remember), people are pressured to lie about being happy, when people talk about death they generally set it to a terrible tragic experience rather than something neutral or a eternal sleep even though they believe death is a neutral or heaven or whatever. Basically if you think of a graph with life being a life that goes up and down and death being a horizontal line that goes accross it. It's obvious both of the arrows skyrocket towards each other its just hard to determine how far. I will write it in a little if you
read it.

Have you ever dead Ernest Becker's The Denial of Death? If not, I think you'd find it interesting.

 

[alice-jane]

That is a very long response. I will write in a little. Basically what you said. To top it of scientific liteture supports something I have always thought was ovbious but people have a hard time accepting. People, espically happy people do not have accurate preceptions of our own life. People are much less happy than they think with the brain remembering positives and forgetting negative(life is much more negative and worse than people usually remember), people are pressured to lie about being happy, when people talk about death they generally set it to a terrible tragic experience rather than something neutral or a eternal sleep even though they believe death is a neutral or heaven or whatever. Basically if you think of a graph with life being a life that goes up and down and death being a horizontal line that goes accross it. It's obvious both of the arrows skyrocket towards each other its just hard to determine how far. I will write it in a little if you
read it.

it's hard to imagine but i like to think about what the world would be like if there wasn't so much fear. fear of death, even talking about death—take that away and what would happen? i' not afraid of death—at least i don't think i am—it's suffering that i fear. the suffering that accompanies death in most cases. i have this image of a door that i would just walk through if i could, and on the other side is not-life. if the passage to not-life were that painless i would already be gone. and i'd have been holding my cat on the way through.

 

[alice-jane]

That is a very long response. I will write in a little. Basically what you said. To top it of scientific liteture supports something I have always thought was ovbious but people have a hard time accepting. People, espically happy people do not have accurate preceptions of our own life. People are much less happy than they think with the brain remembering positives and forgetting negative(life is much more negative and worse than people usually remember), people are pressured to lie about being happy, when people talk about death they generally set it to a terrible tragic experience rather than something neutral or a eternal sleep even though they believe death is a neutral or heaven or whatever. Basically if you think of a graph with life being a life that goes up and down and death being a horizontal line that goes accross it. It's obvious both of the arrows skyrocket towards each other its just hard to determine how far. I will write it in a little if you
read it.

i understand the lines but they would have to be on a sphere in order to eventually intersect?

 

[millefeui]

it's hard to imagine but i like to think about what the world would be like if there wasn't so much fear. fear of death, even talking about death—take that away and what would happen? i' not afraid of death—at least i don't think i am—it's suffering that i fear. the suffering that accompanies death in most cases. i have this image of a door that i would just walk through if i could, and on the other side is not-life. if the passage to not-life were that painless i would already be gone. and i'd have been holding my cat on the way through.

Pain is temporary. Unless you slowly die with some deteriorating disease such as cancer, you choose to kill yourself by something extremely painful such as self immolation or you choose a complicated method and end up messing up the process, there is really no reason to fear pain and suffering. Not in the physical sense of it, anyways.

 

[Squidward]

For starters the entire concept of hell is very immoral. Eternal torture for a finite crime? How could you be happy in heaven knowing people are being tortured forever on the basis of belief? Something that isn't even a choice.(For instance I can not choose to believe Florida is in the arctic circle, I would have to be convinced by new information etc Religious beliefs work the same way.)

It also makes no sense. We are supposedly condemned because Adam and Eve ate from the tree when they did not know the difference between right and wrong.
1) How it is wrong if they did not know the difference between right and wrong?
2) This story goes against evolution.
3)Free will clear does not exist. So it makes absolutely no sense to blame the watch instead of watch maker.
4) Later Jesus sends his son to die to on the cross (human sacrifice)
5) Stays dead for 3 days(How is that equivalent to eternal torture? or even much of a sacrifice)
?6) How does belief(or guil ability based on where you were born(religious beliefs are largely culture ie if you are born in India you will be a Hindu instead of christian etc,) which is not even a choice determine heaven or hell for all of eternity?
7) What is the point in hell? Eternal torment? After a billion years the person still needs to be tortured? What is that going to do?
8) Praise God eternally in heaven? How much of an ego does God have that he created creatures to praise him forever?

Judaism and Christianity do not condemn suicide. Islam has a verse condemning suicide. Pagan religions do not condemn suicide. Commandment 6 is usually used against suicide. Commandments 6-10 refer to other people, not self. So Thou shalt murder refers to others not self. God backs and enables Samson suicide. It's pretty easy to argue Jesus committed suicide by cop. There is nothing is the Torah or bible that says suicide is wrong. It just weird interpretations the church ran with in response to suicide pacts. The church was concerned largely for economic reasons.

"Life is a gift" does not makes sense a gift by definition. A gift by defintion means you were giving something without expecting in return. If you expect something in return it's not a gift.

"God's will that we stay alive, so its going against God will to kill ourselves."

Absent a guide or instruction manual, If we all have to go on is a creator that has given us life we can't infer that suicide is against God's will. If we accept that it is against God's will to kill yourself, why would is also not be against God's will to save someone life ? A person is walking along a street about to get hit by a bus so you push them out of the way, should the person respond with how dare you do that !? It's against God's will! It was God's will I be hit by that bus! If we are a doctor should we say I must not save the patient, it's God will that they die ? No one says that. Why is the argument any better in the case of suicide ? You might say it's was God's will that I save your life, so why not say the same thing about suicide ? It's was God's will that I be in this situation and God's will that I kill myself. Absent any special instruction manual from God, God's will argument cuts both ways. We do not know if it's God will that we act or God's will that we do not act. Absent an instruction manual from God. So this argument is dismissed as can't conclude it's for or against God's will.

"Instruction manual from God says it's against God's will."

For instance someone may say the bible says suicide is wrong. Since the bible is God's word we must do what it says. There are a lot of assumptions behind this argument we would need to really analyze. Is there a God ? Has God expressed his morality in a book ? If so what book ? Do we have moral reason to obey God ? If we do have an obligation to obey instruction manual are we prepared to actually obey it ? Even if there is a sentence that says not to commit suicide, (as in Koran) there are a lot of other things in the instruction manual that we are not inclined to do. The instruction manual tells you that if a teenager is rude to their parents they should be stoned to death. How many of you think that is a moral requirement ? If you are going to pick and choose what parts of the instruction manual you think are morally relevant, than you can't come to me and say suicide is wrong because the instruction manual says so. As you are not really using the instruction manual to give you moral guidance. You are starting with your moral beliefs and picking and choosing which bits and pieces of the instruction manual you want to accept.

Etc

You actually hit some of Humes points in a nice modern way.

And I agree. If eternal hell exists, I almost feel a moral obligation to shun heaven.

 

[millefeui]

On the thing about the bible condemning suicide:

There is actually nothing in the bible that says such thing. It is pure nonsense said by pro-lifers who failed to do their homework. Suicide is mentioned, if I recall correctly, no more than three times in the bible. There are three people (or characters, you choose) who commit suicide and I don't remember anything being said about they being punished for such action.

There is actually a lot of stuff that people say "the bible says this...", "God says in the bible that..." but that is not actually present in the book. I guess it is because the bible is boring as shit and most people aren't willing to read it to check up their "facts".