Discussion Why are the statistics so high of doctors suicide?

[eldiablo666]

First of all I'm sure the real statistics are hidden from the general public due to several reasons.
Primarily because of fear essentially.

But let's play with what we've got.

Why do you think it's doctors that kill themselves more than any other working class?
I mean doctors have it all don't they?
The money. The daily respect from everybody around them. Even if most of it is a facade and utterly fake.
Sure, they're on huge amount of stressors every day and that must take its toll, but why not just change job? Surely you don't kill yourself because your job is stressful. So what is it?
They see death and pain everyday?
Humans get used to stuff. We get used to everything in the end and just endure. It's human nature.

So then, is it something they can see?
Do they see through life like laser cuts through flesh or do they just have an extremely clear vision of life for themselves that they feel its absolute pointlessness and are reminded of this everyday?

Ive tried searching for suicide notes specifically written by doctors but I haven't come by any.
I don't think they leave notes like the rest do in the same regard somehow, maybe I'm overthinking.

What's your thoughts?

 

[Zegers]

I think seeing how fragile human life is on a daily basis increase the human life meaningless.

 

[jodes2]

I bet it's just down to what they can access. Tho maybe the responsibilities of the job are great and eventually push them over the edge

 

[Domimi]

I think that empathy burnout can be a real killer and play a huge factor along with what is described above. A lot of nurses and doctors became really traumatized in the recent years because of the pandemic. They are dealing with human lives, so the guilty and the burden can be very strong also, specially in situations where they feel like they can't do nothing for their patients.

 

[Someone123]

Maybe the biggest factor is that they have very easy access to drugs that can end things quickly and painlessly. and they know how to use them- so that when depressions hits they do this during depressions that other people get through because of their struggles in trying to get a good method.

Another key factor is that is a problem with some doctors is that they get such huge student loans that they can never pay them off- this is a very serious problem for some doctors- the percent of doctors that are affected by this I don't know.

Also for some doctors in order to keep their incomes often had to prescribe things they don't want to- just look at the opioid crisis.

Some doctors are successful and their lives have turned out well, though.

 

[Obliviate]

You sound like a prolifer and ignorant. You have absolutely no idea about the intense corruption and power imbalances in the medical system. As someone who wanted to become a doc, my dreams got shattered when the truth came to life. Just applying to medical school is alot of money. It's meant to gate keep for only rich white people. Going through 4 years of medical school where you are literally treated like shit and 10 fold if you a person of color and a woman. $500,000 of all that beautiful debt for just simply wanting to help people. You get paid literally $10/hr as a RESIDENT while working 80-100+ hours. You get abused and oppressed and can't even report without possibly losing your job. It's incredibly inhumane and disgusting. You realize that it's not about helping people but just a scam to make money for the higher ups that are corrupted and you can't do anything about it. We have to sacrifice our own health for others as we are overworked and insanely underpaid. Not to mention the nasty patients that you cannot deny health care to no matter how much they abuse you or if they are rapists. You don't make the big bucks until you are in your Attending years. But wait, what about all those loans you gotta pay off plus interest? You lose your passion when everything and I mean EVERYTHING is a scam. And I really despise your stupid question of Why not just change jobs? Working your whole life into your passion and realize that it's all fake and you are in serious debt with no way out seems like a very valid point to suicide. You can't just switch jobs so easy like that. The ones who actually make it have had a lot of support. You must be insanely privileged to even ask such stupid questions. People kill them selves literally EVERYDAY because their job is stressful idk what rock you live under.
You think doctors live this glamorous life when in reality they are dying inside, the good ones atleast, there are so many misconceptions and I blame social media for portraying the fakeness as every healthcare workers hides and keeps it to themselves out of fear of getting fired.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

Access to drugs that can kill them along with stress.

 

[beingfree]

Stress and access/knowledge of how to do it. Most doctor suicides are done elegantly and painlessly.

Sometimes personal issues + easy access to lethal drug combinations.

Perhaps in some cases, shattered idealistic ideas about the profession.

 

[Insomniac]

You sound like a prolifer and ignorant. You have absolutely no idea about the intense corruption and power imbalances in the medical system. As someone who wanted to become a doc, my dreams got shattered when the truth came to life. Just applying to medical school is alot of money. It's meant to gate keep for only rich white people. Going through 4 years of medical school where you are literally treated like shit and 10 fold if you a person of color and a woman. $500,000 of all that beautiful debt for just simply wanting to help people. You get paid literally $10/hr as a RESIDENT while working 80-100+ hours. You get abused and oppressed and can't even report without possibly losing your job. It's incredibly inhumane and disgusting. You realize that it's not about helping people but just a scam to make money for the higher ups that are corrupted and you can't do anything about it. We have to sacrifice our own health for others as we are overworked and insanely underpaid. Not to mention the nasty patients that you cannot deny health care to no matter how much they abuse you or if they are rapists. You don't make the big bucks until you are in your Attending years. But wait, what about all those loans you gotta pay off plus interest? You lose your passion when everything and I mean EVERYTHING is a scam. And I really despise your stupid question of Why not just change jobs? Working your whole life into your passion and realize that it's all fake and you are in serious debt with no way out seems like a very valid point to suicide. You can't just switch jobs so easy like that. The ones who actually make it have had a lot of support. You must be insanely privileged to even ask such stupid questions. People kill them selves literally EVERYDAY because their job is stressful idk what rock you live under.
You think doctors live this glamorous life when in reality they are dying inside, the good ones atleast, there are so many misconceptions and I blame social media for portraying the fakeness as every healthcare workers hides and keeps it to themselves out of fear of getting fired.

we were oblivious :(

 

[eldiablo666]

I understand the point you're making about easy access to morphine e.g but still I don't buy the idea.

I would say I had easy access to N although I lost 2 bottles that were confiscated to the police first try. But the second two shipments were easy. No hassle, and I would argue that N is just as if it a better option in terms of peaceful exit as morphine.

Now, I don't believe doctors kill themselves just because of easy access. It's something else.
I think they not only see through the farce of life, they live it, feel it immensely. I think this is why they just crumble and give up because it's so fucking pointless and they can't escape it.
Because the profession is so strict and harsh they have a harder time than us to look away. I don't know.

 

[CTB Dream]

Tell you step step, person many differ start some no ok blood bio still force be nurse doctor this make mental problms. Other thing students pressure society economy say doc no out option feel depress force study long . Additional also human no design be doctor each this tell how, see student learn get many mental illnesses study med one example student syndrome feel same disese study. Later doctor nurse etc force way work prolife see different life shallow, also many be apathetic abuse other corrupt etc. Work place abuse oppress no care make stress cruelty more mental problem. Doctor nurse need support human same other nobody hear .
This long complicate root problem study med full problem, root also human design make mental problem learn med work med

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Ive tried searching for suicide notes specifically written by doctors but I haven't come by any.
I don't think they leave notes like the rest do in the same regard somehow, maybe I'm overthinking.

Check out this book and the author. She has devoted herself to the problem of physician suicide.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Terrible but I hadn't actually considered which profession had the highest suicide rates. I have always been aware that in this country (UK), farmers are very at risk.

Just did a quick Google search and by the looks of it, doctors aren't so much at risk here- although some other professions common to the US are. According to this list, our most vulnerable professions are:

Police Officers
Veterinarians
Financial Services
Real Estate Agents
Electricians
Lawyers
Farmers
Pharmacists

Kind of odd that the lists aren't the same. Wonder what makes the US different to the UK in this regard. I'd kind of imagine the NHS would actually be worse to work for than a private company but maybe not.

Also interesting that jobs 3-6 and 8 have a reputation of being well paid- so money doesn't necessarily make you happy I guess...

 

[eldiablo666]

Terrible but I hadn't actually considered which profession had the highest suicide rates. I have always been aware that in this country (UK), farmers are very at risk.

Just did a quick Google search and by the looks of it, doctors aren't so much at risk here- although some other professions common to the US are. According to this list, our most vulnerable professions are:

Police Officers
Veterinarians
Financial Services
Real Estate Agents
Electricians
Lawyers
Farmers
Pharmacists

Kind of odd that the lists aren't the same. Wonder what makes the US different to the UK in this regard. I'd kind of imagine the NHS would actually be worse to work for than a private company but maybe not.

Also interesting that jobs 3-6 and 8 have a reputation of being well paid- so money doesn't necessarily make you happy I guess...

It's very individual how people deal with a pile of money. Some destroy themselves while some can prosper and actually handle it.

You never know until you have it I guess.

It's not so hard to understand. The entire culture is different, the people are different.
The atmosphere is entirely different.
It's logical.

 

[Forever Sleep]

It's very individual how people deal with a pile of money. Some destroy themselves while some can prosper and actually handle it.

You never know until you have it I guess.

Definitely... or loose it- that's the other problem I imagine- they get used to a certain lifestyle but if they loose their job and can no longer sustain it, I imagine the adjustment could be difficult.

 

[eldiablo666]

Definitely... or loose it- that's the other problem I imagine- they get used to a certain lifestyle but if they loose their job and can no longer sustain it, I imagine the adjustment could be difficult.

That's why if you ever get a fortune you should lock the money and make them be dealt to you in small numbers each month.

 

[marcy2022]

We can't measure pain or suffering if that is the reason for ctb. People may have reasons for doing things, anything for that matter, may sound reasonable to one while sounding unreasonable to another however controversial as it maybe there's no right and wrong in this. Be it a doctor, poor person, millionaire, some famous celebrity or casual person, everyone is different, everyone perceives "life" or "death" as we call it differently. Everyone deals with ups and downs differently. Everyone thinks differently. Happiness and sadness too different for each and every person. I'm afraid there's no definitive answer to this. One can be said is that they have easier access and the knowledge to certain things which may make it easier for them to ctb.

 

[Cryptonite]

I find it personally difficult to find compassion for them. They ruined my whole life because they misdiagnosed my spinal disease.

Yes, there are good doctors and for them I wish the best, but so many of them are so arrogant, unempathetic and with zero willingness to commit to lifelong learning. They know a couple of outdated sentences about every disease and that's it. Many of them don't care about their patients at all, they're in it just for prestige and high status.

But I do believe higher suicide rate in doctors has to do with the desensitization to the idea of death. I'd say, survival instinct of an average doctor is considerably lower than the one of an average person.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Terrible but I hadn't actually considered which profession had the highest suicide rates. I have always been aware that in this country (UK), farmers are very at risk.

Just did a quick Google search and by the looks of it, doctors aren't so much at risk here- although some other professions common to the US are. According to this list, our most vulnerable professions are:

Police Officers
Veterinarians
Financial Services
Real Estate Agents
Electricians
Lawyers
Farmers
Pharmacists

Kind of odd that the lists aren't the same. Wonder what makes the US different to the UK in this regard. I'd kind of imagine the NHS would actually be worse to work for than a private company but maybe not.

Also interesting that jobs 3-6 and 8 have a reputation of being well paid- so money doesn't necessarily make you happy I guess...

Stress is a big factor. After the attack on the Capitol last year 4 cops killed themselves (they also have access to and are familiar with guns, just like veterans).

 

[eldiablo666]

I find it personally difficult to find compassion for them. They ruined my whole life because they misdiagnosed my spinal disease.

Yes, there are good doctors and for them I wish the best, but so many of them are so arrogant, unempathetic and with zero willingness to commit to lifelong learning. They know a couple of outdated sentences about every disease and that's it. Many of them don't care about their patients at all, they're in it just for prestige and high status.

But I do believe higher suicide rate in doctors has to do with the desensitization to the idea of death. I'd say, survival instinct of an average doctor is considerably lower than the one of an average person.

Do you understand how hard being a doctor is?
Do you understand the human factor?
Humans can do wrong. We are not robots.

Yes. Your situation was very unfortunate but you can't blame all doctors for his human mistake.
Sorry.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Stress is a big factor. After the attack on the Capitol last year 4 cops killed themselves (they also access to and are familiar with guns, just like veterans).

Absolutely- that list is actually UK based but I completely agree- don't know how they cope seeing some of the things they have to deal with. Same goes for a lot of social care jobs.

Partly why it makes me so upset when people are considering the suicide by cop shootout method. I feel sorry the person contemplating it feels that desperate but you can't help but wonder if it's going to destroy the life of the police officer too.

 

[conflagration]

I think the main factor of high suicide rate among doctors is availability of lethal and painless means, plus knowledge how to use them effectively. That's it.
When lethal means became commonly available, suicides skyrockets. That was the case e.g. in Turkey when for a while cyanide was easily obtainable.

 

[eldiablo666]

I think the main factor of high suicide rate among doctors is availability of lethal and painless means, plus knowledge how to use them effectively. That's it.
When lethal means became commonly available, suicides skyrockets. That was the case e.g. in Turkey when for a while cyanide was easily obtainable.

I hear you and many posters above say the same but still .. I can't believe it's just the availability?
And isn't there big risks involved with morphine too even if you have medical knowledge?
They've fought for so much in terms of their studies. How can they just drop it like that?
I can't understand their driving force to even begin those studies in the first place.
Maybe it's large amounts of fear of being "trash" or "not needed".

 

[conflagration]

I am not a doctor

They've fought for so much in terms of their studies. How can they just drop it like that?
I can't understand their driving force to even begin those studies in the first place.
Maybe it's large amounts of fear of being "trash" or "not needed".

I am not a doctor, but I also spend a lot of time training myself in my field (programming). Learning and becoming good was my escape from the pain I felt due to my messed up childhood. Currently, I am probably in top 5% people with the highest compensation in my country, recently I bought my apartment without any loans or help from family.
But when you are mentally ill, it doesn't matter. You are ready to drop all of that just to make pain stop.

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

Being exposed to death and illness constantly desensitises you to many of the more macabre and gruesume realities of life. Our bodies truly are fragile, and it doesn't take long to figure this out if you're studying biology or medical sciences.

There are thousands of things which can go wrong, cellular processes that can be hijacked, parasites and bacteria that can invade, accidents that permanently damage our body's protective mechanisms.. Once you become aware of this fragility, there is no turning back.

People who go into similar disciplines, like veterinarians, also have high rates of suicide. I imagine that sort of job is even harder on the mind, because you have to see innocent animals suffering on the daily, and often are forced to turn down care for them due to the owner's lack of finances.

Yes, methods are more accessible, but the entire culture around medicine is toxic to it's core, so if you're found with one of these drugs in your possession, it's almost game over for your career. Medicine as an institution is very beurocratic and full of abuse. Doctors and nurses eat their young. Anyone I know who has gone into medicine is miserable, because the senior consultants do nothing but bully and overwork their colleagues to death.

I am sure many doctors feel guilty too about being forced to deny people pain relief due to regulations, having hands tied by beurocracy, playing down concerns to save money/time, or lying to patients that things can always get better in the case of the mental health industry so they are not on the hook if a patient eventually does go through with suicide. Many people are not in these careers for the right reasons, and they know it. Familial and societal pressure to go into a high paying career with status and prestige influence a lot of people to study medicine when they know it is the wrong path for them.

The whole preserve human life at all costs no matter the quality mantra is probably what kills many of these doctors. I think the know deep down it is cruel and immoral to induce someone into a coma for decades, destined to never wake up, or break an old person's ribs by forcing CPR on them, but they are forced by the law to uphold the santicty of life as a moral obligation, and hence have to witness many tragic and gruesome scenes that no human should lay eyes on.

 

[Cryptonite]

Do you understand how hard being a doctor is?
Do you understand the human factor?
Humans can do wrong. We are not robots.

Yes. Your situation was very unfortunate but you can't blame all doctors for his human mistake.
Sorry.

I understand what you're saying, rationally, but the medical trauma is such that I don't think I can ever see it that way again. The last doctor I have ever talked to (probably in my whole life) happened to be arrogant as well, and I told him off in such a way he'll never forget that. This happened because I tried to explain to him that the information he had about my disease have been already disproven by science. His ego couldn't take that, as is usual for many doctors. He couldn't understand that my hundreds of hours of googling are more than his vague info back from his college days in the 80s.

 

[Meaninglessness]

Doctors have a difficult job. They have long working days and nights and get burnt out. They see human suffering and patients who are slowly tormented to death. The doctor may risk being charged with murder if he or she helps a patient who is in meaningless suffering, to die. The doctors are forced to work in this difficult situation. Doctors can get access to lethal medicine and when one wants to die, one uses what is available - the doctors want a peaceful and reliable death like everyone else. But in 2021, the medical doctor Thomas Jendges in Germany jumped or fell from the hospital roof after saying that he no longer wanted to be part of the genocide that happened with the covid-19 vaccine.

Chief medical doctor Thomas Jendges commits suicide - he throws himself from the clinic roof in 2021

 

[Obliviate]

I find it personally difficult to find compassion for them. They ruined my whole life because they misdiagnosed my spinal disease.

Yes, there are good doctors and for them I wish the best, but so many of them are so arrogant, unempathetic and with zero willingness to commit to lifelong learning. They know a couple of outdated sentences about every disease and that's it. Many of them don't care about their patients at all, they're in it just for prestige and high status.

But I do believe higher suicide rate in doctors has to do with the desensitization to the idea of death. I'd say, survival instinct of an average doctor is considerably lower than the one of an average person.

I agree with you in the fact that there are alot of horrible doctors out there and that's why diversity is needed. If they only gatekeep to rich spoiled brats who only want it for the reputation and money(which comes way later on) and don't even need it cuz their parents are rich, they are gonna most likely lack the empathy. As for the the desensitization.......i think it's a bunch of crap and bullshit. A doctor, atleast a good one should be able to feel just as much sympathy for one patient on to the other. If not then they are in it just for the glamour obviously and couldn't give two shits about their patients. If I had made it as a doc I would treat all my patients ( the ones who aren't assholes with kindness as all the others but you don't find many people like me now a days. Infact people like me are needed in the field but this sick society ruined it for me. What actually happens is that we get numb to the abuse and corruption where you are literally fighting insurance companies so they would pay for your patient's meds and treatment. You get numb to the fact that you just can't do anything to change it. But they should never be numb to being courteous to innocent patients that need help. The bad ones ofcourse didn't give a fuck from the start. When I worked in healthcare I was just wanting to help and there were so many nasty patients yelling and cursing at me along with horrible coworkers.......how do you think I will react to that? My passion died because they don't deserve that kindness from me cuz I just kept being stepped on.

 

[eldiablo666]

I understand what you're saying, rationally, but the medical trauma is such that I don't think I can ever see it that way again. The last doctor I have ever talked to (probably in my whole life) happened to be arrogant as well, and I told him off in such a way he'll never forget that. This happened because I tried to explain to him that the information he had about my disease have been already disproven by science. His ego couldn't take that, as is usual for many doctors. He couldn't understand that my hundreds of hours of googling are more than his vague info back from his college days in the 80s.

Patients looking on Google is the worst thing doctors know.

You have to trust their knowledge.
They didn't become doctors by chance.

I'm sorry things didn't work out for the best.

Doctors have a difficult job. They have long working days and nights and get burnt out. They see human suffering and patients who are slowly tormented to death. The doctor may risk being charged with murder if he or she helps a patient who is in meaningless suffering, to die. The doctors are forced to work in this difficult situation. Doctors can get access to lethal medicine and when one wants to die, one uses what is available - the doctors want a peaceful and reliable death like everyone else. But in 2021, the medical doctor Thomas Jendges in Germany jumped or fell from the hospital roof after saying that he no longer wanted to be part of the genocide that happened with the covid-19 vaccine.

Chief medical doctor Thomas Jendges commits suicide - he throws himself from the clinic roof in 2021

Genocide? I don't believe the vaccine is safe either but genociide? Is there any more info on this?

 

[Obliviate]

we were oblivious :(

I fucking hate these stupid as healthcare workers on tik tok and other social media that glamorize it and don't expose all the disgusting things that happen behind it. Fuck all of them. They even encourage people to be healthcare workers. And then the country wonders why there is a shortage of nurses and physicians, suicide is rising, cuz we get treated horribly!!!!! and they are only left with the asshole jackass docs because their life is so perf with all this privilege! LOL good luck to this world, their gonna need it.