Discussion White Knights…

[SolomonKado]

White Knights…I hate when people try to cheer you on to get better or help, but what after? Do they stay with you until the day you die to make sure you are good or need more help?

I have been here for 40+ years and only found they have stipulations. They feel pride at being the one to give you those positive words, help you turn yourself around, or even talk you out of it.

Why do they do it if they aren't going to follow through. I have had many come and go in my life and now they are nowhere to be found.

It's disgusting and depressing because it seems they get off on it. They should check their own mental problems. You can't put stipulations on if you're going to help someone. It's going to take alot if you help so be prepared. If you start it you finish it. All you could end up doing is making the person you help in a worse mess when they fall again and you're nowhere to be found.

It makes me think of someone only going "half-ass" and not wanting to put much effort into it. I know even White Knights have their own problems, but that's just an excuse. If you're going to help someone then follow through. If you're not going to make sure you put the effort into ultimately helping a person then sit back down and evaluate your own problems until you can.

Helping someone in Alot of pain needs alot of help. Disappearing after it seems the person is better can make them feel the person helping them can't stand being around them for long and cause more or other problems. If you don't have the capacity to be a friend of the person in pain and be in their life then don't even try.

I always hate seeing "words of encouragement" because it's always half ass. So many people love giving encouragement because it's easy and cheap. The real help is always being there and that takes alot of effort. If you want to be strong for them then make sure your strong for yourself first.

 

[jonward55]

All of that is so true. People telling you that it will get better and then doing Fk all to actually help you.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Sadly- I think for the amount of help a lot of us would require- it likely means paying someone to listen to it all- a therapist or the like. It's sad but- like you say- you need to be strong yourself to be able to be able to constantly shoulder someone elses problems. I'm not so sure that many people out there are that strong- or that committed to a relationship to give that much of themselves.

I hate to say it but I'm guilty of it myself. I have a friend who vents to me all the time. To be fair- I used to vent back but all I really got was platitudes that just made me feel annoyed. I've simply stopped venting to them in the guilty hopes that they will do the same. Because- I don't always feel strong enough to cope with it. It used to be playing on my mind for hours afterwards. How else can you react if you actually care about someone? I can't help them- anymore than they can help me. We're both stuck in a rut in our own ways and maybe it just frustrates us both that neither of us really takes our own advice.

In terms of the 'saviour complex.' Yeah- I guess that is frustrating. I probably try to avoid stimulating it in people because I know how stubborn I am when people try to help me.

Having said that though- is that REALLY what you want? Someone else to 'save you?' What would that involve? Just sounds like a whole lot of nagging to me... Beyond checking in and finding out how you're feeling- surely it involves practical help: 'Did you find a therapist? Have you joined a gym? What's your diet like these days? Have you cut back on the things you know are harming you?' Personally- all that would annoy me! Still- would ONLY being sympathetic all the time really do any good? It's nice now and then of course but it doesn't inspire change.

I don't know- to be brutally honest- I think it's too much to expect other people to devote so much of themselves into 'saving' us. Sorry if that sounds harsh. It's just something I've come to realise of myself. The REAL me is simply too high maintanence for people to be exposed to. I only tend to show snippets until I sense people are finding it too negative to be around.

 

[FuneralCry]

I just think that most people truly don't care about the suffering that other people go through, they are self centred and focused on their own existence, in general I don't believe that other people can be relied on, I'm not surprised that people act in such a way.

 

[SolomonKado]

Forever Sleep please don't worry about offending me. I always appreciate constructive criticism.

With that thought I've had seven different therapists, the doctor for lots of different psych meds ( they won't prescribe the strong stuff), been to rehab with more therapists and a community, and I've also had good supervisors who took the time out to train me instead of put me down. Then when the good supervisors were gone here comes the ones who told me everyday I was worthless. I asked one once why they don't give out positive evaluations and they said "why would I when I don't get them." Also, Those good supervisors would only be there shortly before moving on to their next work area.

What I noticed was therapy didn't work for me because everything was from a script on how to treat someone with my problems. No room for a lot less black and white and more grey. When I was in rehab I got more from the community of a bunch of guys and vets who wanted to get better.

My sister tried to be there for me and she couldn't help but to keep taking things personal and we would fight all the time. Who the fuck fights with a suicidal person!!!! I had LOTS of people who said they'd be there for me in the worst of time and now…no one has been around for 6 months. I understand being busy or having their own thing, but NOT even one time did they try to be here. I'd reach out and would be ignored.
The world is full of lazy and selfish people. The only person who tried to be here was my sister and all we did was fight due to her being selfish too. Also my therapist told me "Why do you want to commit suicide? No one even knows what comes after." Who the heck cares! Atleast it's not here.

With the supervisors it was nice to have someone truly care about my training, but only for a very short time. With rehab it was more about community and that only lasted 45 days. It was about $200,000 to my insurance company though. I even tried calling the suicide line and they wanted to send me to another therapist…also you could tell the person on the other end was reading from a script. No Compassion!

It's been 40+ years for me and I've been through and seen a lot. Like how the fuck do you catch hep c from donating blood!?

When I talk about white knights I stand by my feeling of them being lazy and selfish. To accept a "things will get better. Hang in there" is a lie for some. I understand others might get better, but you don't know that. Unless you stuck around and keep helping. You can't know that, but either you stick with them to make sure or you stay sitting down. With technology everyone can give up one movie, a trip to fat food, a "favorite" tv show, or an update to yourself what others are doing on social media just to actually take the time to be there for someone who is hurting. Humans are selfish and lazy when it comes to the well being of another person. That's why "words of encouragement" are said so people can pretend they helped. It's also why it's so easy for people to fall into such dark depths as suicide.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Forever Sleep please don't worry about offending me. I always appreciate constructive criticism.

With that thought I've had seven different therapists, the doctor for lots of different psych meds ( they won't prescribe the strong stuff), been to rehab with more therapists and a community, and I've also had good supervisors who took the time out to train me instead of put me down. Then when the good supervisors were gone here comes the ones who told me everyday I was worthless. I asked one once why they don't give out positive evaluations and they said "why would I when I don't get them." Also, Those good supervisors would only be there shortly before moving on to their next work area.

What I noticed was therapy didn't work for me because everything was from a script on how to treat someone with my problems. No room for a lot less black and white and more grey. When I was in rehab I got more from the community of a bunch of guys and vets who wanted to get better.

My sister tried to be there for me and she couldn't help but to keep taking things personal and we would fight all the time. Who the fuck fights with a suicidal person!!!! I had LOTS of people who said they'd be there for me in the worst of time and now…no one has been around for 6 months. I understand being busy or having their own thing, but NOT even one time did they try to be here. I'd reach out and would be ignored.
The world is full of lazy and selfish people. The only person who tried to be here was my sister and all we did was fight due to her being selfish too. Also my therapist told me "Why do you want to commit suicide? No one even knows what comes after." Who the heck cares! Atleast it's not here.

With the supervisors it was nice to have someone truly care about my training, but only for a very short time. With rehab it was more about community and that only lasted 45 days. It was about $200,000 to my insurance company though. I even tried calling the suicide line and they wanted to send me to another therapist…also you could tell the person on the other end was reading from a script. No Compassion!

It's been 40+ years for me and I've been through and seen a lot. Like how the fuck do you catch hep c from donating blood!?

When I talk about white knights I stand by my feeling of them being lazy and selfish. To accept a "things will get better. Hang in there" is a lie for some. I understand others might get better, but you don't know that. Unless you stuck around and keep helping. You can't know that, but either you stick with them to make sure or you stay sitting down. With technology everyone can give up one movie, a trip to fat food, a "favorite" tv show, or an update to yourself what others are doing on social media just to actually take the time to be there for someone who is hurting. Humans are selfish and lazy when it comes to the well being of another person. That's why "words of encouragement" are said so people can pretend they helped. It's also why it's so easy for people to fall into such dark depths as suicide. Don't bring me into this because you need to know my full story first and it's.

That's absolutely shocking behaviour by those so called supervisors! They REALLY shouldn't be in that job!

I'm sorry you invested so much in yourself only to be let down and disappointed. Yeah- it makes sense that a scripted one size fits all response isn't going to feel helpful. I meant to say but forget actually- that even paying for someone to listen doesn't always seem to be enough. There have been cases here where people have been ditched by their therapists- some even without referrals. I find that shocking too.

I'm sorry you only end up arguing with your sister. I think it can be a problem when it's people close to us that we open up to. I think sometimes, they can't get beyond the sense of panic that they may actually lose you. And that they can't actually help perhaps. I suppose it's hard to entirely drop their own selfish fears that may then lead to resentment- a kind of- how can you contemplate doing this to me? I don't know really. Just kind of guessing. It's tough though- and lonely. I think a lot of people here are contending with these thoughts on their own because they are afraid of the response they would get if they opened up.

Still- I do get what you mean. It's pretty fake to pretend you really care about someone and their well being and then just ignore or forget about them. I think the offer and later withdrawal of help likely does feel worse than nothing at all. Like everything in life really- having hope and trust can hurt us deeply when they are betrayed.