Discussion When is CTB considered a show of total irresponsibility?

[Versailles]

I have been asking myself the question and it is this, at some point could CTB be a clear demonstration of complete irresponsibility? In the event that the person, or is the father of children or someone who depends on him, or has important responsibilities in this life. or just want to get out of debt

 

[Messgram]

When you have kids it's definitely irresponsible on most cases, especially if they depend on you.

 

[D&D]

I have been asking myself the question and it is this, at some point could CTB be a clear demonstration of complete irresponsibility? In the event that the person, or is the father of children or someone who depends on him, or has important responsibilities in this life. or just want to get out of debt

No.

Despite what people, and they are always more than ready to stick any kind of derogatory label that comes to mind, including 'complete irresponsibility', 'easy way out' and alike to any suicide, I do not buy it. Losing, for instance, your last dime gambling or drinking while your family starves, leaving your dependents and disappearing without a trace, or similar can, in my view, be called 'demonstration of complete irresponsibility.' Or, if you prefer, avoidance of responsibilities and all that comes with them. I do not see how suicide can be considered the same. Because the critical 'ingredient' common to all 'avoidances' - self - is erased. It is 'self' that, in given examples, behaves irresponsible and avoids consequences. The same 'self' that is erased by suicide.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Versailles]

I do not see how suicide can be considered the same. Because the critical 'ingredient' common to all 'avoidances' - self - is erased. It is 'self' that, in given examples, behaves irresponsible and avoids consequences. The same 'self' that is erased by suicide.

Thank you for giving your opinion, although the latter I must think a lot about this, these types of questions tend to have very divided opinions

 

[gr1lledcheese]

I can see where it could be considered irresponsible to ctb while leaving behind a spouse and children.
For my part I have no spouse, children, or pets.

 

[Mae]

Has anyone read The Awakening by Kate Chopin? If so, what do think of Edna's decision?

 

[ExitiumVitae]

When it's an impulsive decision made in a special moment of despair, anger, fear etc. I always get saddened when I hear about cases of drunk people shooting themselves without any prior signs of having thoughts of ctb.

I personally don't think ''total irresponsibility'' is ever a correct term to describe ctb, but I think barely giving time to think about it and doing it with clouded judgement is not the best way to make any decision, especially not when it comes to ctb.

 

[Chiisai]

Thank you for giving your opinion, although the latter I must think a lot about this, these types of questions tend to have very divided opinions

Hmm... IMHO, as for how I deem an act irresponsible, i think of it this way;

1. If CTB method directly affects or has the ability to affect another person/s without them agreeing to be part of it For ex. DUI/CARCRASH, IMPROPER WARNINGS/UNCONTAINED POISON GAS METHOD, EXPLOSIVES/FIREHAZARD IN AN OCCUPIED BUILDING, CONTAMINATED BLOOD CAUSING INFECTIOUS DISEASE, PERFORMED IN PUBLIC, WITH UNRELATED PEOPLE, or complete disregard for others' safety and wellbeing and any or similar instances.

2. If the person doing the act has dependents which does not have or are not provided with alternative sources for their dependency. For ex. DISABLED/AILING FAMILY MEMBER not provided a nursing home or be put into govt care, family/children depending on one's income are not provided with financial plans and/or inheritance in will to support their future and/or be taken under foster care, and any or similar instances.

Whether its an act of impulse or planned, it doesnt matter to me as long as it does not fit in the above mentioned.

 

[Suicidebydeath]

It's a very strong factor in not being able to ctb for me. It's right up there with fear of death and survival instinct. I think that, you get suicidal ideation first, then fear of death, you overcome that thinking it can't be worse than what you have now (unfortunately I think of hell, not really the biblical kind, a biological hell, and so, I just have to die with great uncertainty, for me personally). Then survival instinct might kick in, not sure, when you think about doing it. But when you really, absolutely want to die one last time. Then you start thinking about the people you'll leave behind. It sucks, for me, personally.

I kinda want to wait until everybody else dies first so that I can go. Having no responsibilities at all would help me, a lot.

 

[eternalpeace]

That's an interesting question. I've never considered suicide to be irresponsible. I definitely don't think it is irresponsible to die with debt, unless you live in a jurisdiction which causes remaining family members to "inherit" your debt (I recall learning that there are certain jurisdictions like that, but I don't know what they are or how it works), or if you owe arrears in child support or a significant debt to a friend/family member and there is some likelihood that you will actually be able to pay the debt if you stay alive. Things like student loans, credit cards, mortgages, car loans, business loans, lines of credit, etc, build the possibility of non-payment into their interest rates, so I personally wouldn't lose any sleep over anything like that.

I'm not sure what prompted this question, but from what I've read here, I think most people DO consider how their death would cause hardship for those who depend on them, either emotionally or financially. I do think people should consider their various "responsibilities" if they are thinking about CTB, and that the more serious obligations (for eg, to children or other dependents) should weigh heavily in the "alive" column if not tip the scales in favour of life, , but I don't believe there is anything to be gained by categorically labeling certain suicides as "irresponsible". This is NOT to say that I believe anyone SHOULD kill themselves, or that it isn't tragic when it happens (no matter the circumstances), and I definitely do not mean to minimize the impact on those left behind. I just don't see the label as helpful. I suppose it might be a good deterrent for anyone who feels some strong moral imperative to be "responsible", but in those cases, the sense of responsibility itself will likely be a deterrent, not the label itself. It won't be a deterrent to anyone who actually IS irresponsible, because irresponsible people tend to either fail to recognize that they are in fact irresponsible, or to be indifferent to that fact if they do accept it.

Has anyone read The Awakening by Kate Chopin? If so, what do think of Edna's decision?

I haven't read it, but it looks good! Thanks for the recommendation. I don't really have the attention span for a novel right now, but maybe I can find an audiobook. If I do, I'll get back to you,

 

[WearyHSP]

I don't have anyone who relies on me, and I live alone. I think it'd be a more difficult decision if that was the case (regarding being irresponsible.)

I do find myself musing about the things I could do to make my death easier on my family, and wish there was a check list somewhere. (Get a will, get rid of belongings, provide lists of what needs to be taken care of and how etc.)
I can only do so much, given my health issues and lack of money, but I'd prefer to have fewer things to clear out of my apartment, stuff like that. Someone's going to have to clean up after me whether they pay for a service or do the work themselves.

Wishing that wasn't the case. I don't think there's a way around that but those are my thoughts about more subtle responsibilities.

 

[eternalpeace]

It's a very strong factor in not being able to ctb for me. It's right up there with fear of death and survival instinct. I think that, you get suicidal ideation first, then fear of death, you overcome that thinking it can't be worse than what you have now (unfortunately I think of hell, not really the biblical kind, a biological hell, and so, I just have to die with great uncertainty, for me personally). Then survival instinct might kick in, not sure, when you think about doing it. But when you really, absolutely want to die one last time. Then you start thinking about the people you'll leave behind. It sucks, for me, personally.

I kinda want to wait until everybody else dies first so that I can go. Having no responsibilities at all would help me, a lot.

I am as close to zero responsibility as I have ever been. I have already re-homed my dog (doing so absolutely broke my heart, but it was best for him as I didn't have the resources to pay for the medication he required, and I didn't want to leave his well-being to chance when I die), and I don't have kids. I do, however, feel an obligation to help take care of my aging parents. I am living with them (at 38…a middle aged boomerang kid! What a winner I am!), and they don't need help financially (which I'm not in a position to provide anyway), but I can help around the house, and my mom says she likes having me around to watch tv with her, and to act as a buffer when my Dad annoys her, which is most of the time. And I know my mom is going to go through a rough time when she finally retires (her job is her identity), and she might need a distraction at that point. I also like being the "fun Auntie" to my niece, but I think she has enough people who adore her that my absence would go relatively unnoticed.

On the other hand, as my MS progresses, I'm not able to do as much around the house. Also, my parents are well aware of my suicidality, and I know my mom is always really worried about me, so I suspect she would be somewhat relieved if I finally went. Please note that I am NOT suggesting that this would be the case for anyone else's loved ones, and I'm not even 100% certain it is true in my case. It's just a thought I have about my own situation.

I would feel absolutely zero qualms about leaving if it weren't for my parents.

 

[GentleJerk]

When it comes to responsibilities such a debts and dependents, it depends on each individual circumstance. There are no solid rules or outlines. For example if you are facing a chronic debilitating of fatal illness then I don't believe it is irresponsible. Very unfortunate, yes. But not irresponsible.

If you are considering ctb for this reason then you are either already unable to take care of these matters or you soon will be. And a lot of people who soon will be unable to take care of these matters, spend whatever energy and time they have left doing everything they can to sort out these responsbilities, and sometimes still cannot.

As for people who ctb because of other reasons like depression, there is no way to tell whether or not they have any more capacity to look after their responsibilities than a person who is physically ill or dying.

There's always exceptions, but I think that the majority of people would choose to look after their responsibilities and not need to ctb at all if that was doable for them.

 

[NearlyIrrelevantCake]

I would only call CTB irresponsible if the method chosen can/will lead to the injury or traumatization of innocent people., such as jumping in front of a car.

I don't care why someone wants to CTB or who "depends" on them. Kids or pets can be cared for by another human.

 

[FuneralCry]

I do not believe that ctb is irresponsible. We all have the right to exit at a time of our own choosing. We have no obligations to stay alive as we did not ask to exist. Nobody should be forced to live. I agree with the user above in regards to kids and pets, if I was planning to ctb and I had them, I would make sure they were properly cared for before exiting.

 

[sadeyesWA]

I don't have kids, but otherwise Judah could be talking about me. Even though I contribute a great deal to the household, money from job, take care of pets, etc, I'm firm that she (wife) will be better off without me. I'm a messy mess and have been for years, so even though she may experience some financial hardship, she has people to rely on (kind of rich family) and I know she'll get over me. My parents will hurt a lot, probably forever. Still doesn't make it irresponsible.

 

[motel rooms]

You people better laugh at this joke or I'm leaving the forum:

I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I killed myself & left my husband behind...

@GenesAndEnvironment

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

You people better laugh at this joke or I'm leaving the forum:

I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I killed myself & left my husband behind...

@GenesAndEnvironment

Come on, man. Not funny (despite the fact that I'm pretty sure I've posted a similar joke myself)...

 

[motel rooms]

Come on, man. Not funny (despite the fact that I'm pretty sure I've posted a similar joke myself)...

You refuse to laugh and you're accusing me of plagiarism?! Goodbye forever!

 

[little helpers]

I don't like the "responsibility" talk. meaning the rhetoric. did people take responsibility of *our* lives? do our policies reflect that? not a bit. if you're more privileged I don't have a word to say. but anyone here has the privilege to die? nah. humans are social animals and we naturally rely on one another. but whoever dies the Earth goes round. "early" exit or whatever, you exit. you can't keep a terminally ill person on their deathbed cuz they still got debt they got to pay.

I seen a mother on here who wants to ctb. would she worry that much if CPS is not a child torture machine? there's always consequences and it's for the entire society, one of the living, to deal with that properly.

 

[Callie Arcale]

I am quite extreme when it comes to my views on suicide. I believe every individual is free to make a decision about whether or not they want to live or die, irrespective of whatever small or big responsabilities they might have.

I understand that having children is the ultimate responsability, but even in that case I support the individual's choice.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

CTB when you have kids that solely depend on you is shitty AF, unless you have a terminal illness or something. I would never forgive my parent if I got thrown into the foster care system after their death. That's part of the reason I never had kids.

 

[Versailles]

You refuse to laugh and you're accusing me of plagiarism?! Goodbye forever!

Don't go, come here, I have cookies

 

[Kennish]

No. I have kids. But I never asked for them. Not the first, not the second one. I love them with all my heart. But they are not lost without me.

I don't see suicide as irresponsible. If a person is suffering, why should that person stay in suffering because of other people?

There are alot of people who will be sad about it when I ctb, but they will get over it and on with their lives. My parents for example. They never gave me the love and security in my childhood and teens. They never learned me anything. So why should I keep suffering just because they may be sad that I'm gone? I can't see it.

I've been suicidal since age 13 maybe. And the more I tell people about it the more distancing they give me.

My parents never call me. They don't do shit for me and never has.

I don't see suicide as irresponsible. My kids don't live with me and are not dependent on me.

People will miss me, but my suffering can't stand a lifetime, just because other people will be sad or miss or will maybe "need" me for stuff.

It's a very strong factor in not being able to ctb for me. It's right up there with fear of death and survival instinct. I think that, you get suicidal ideation first, then fear of death, you overcome that thinking it can't be worse than what you have now (unfortunately I think of hell, not really the biblical kind, a biological hell, and so, I just have to die with great uncertainty, for me personally). Then survival instinct might kick in, not sure, when you think about doing it. But when you really, absolutely want to die one last time. Then you start thinking about the people you'll leave behind. It sucks, for me, personally.

I kinda want to wait until everybody else dies first so that I can go. Having no responsibilities at all would help me, a lot.

If you have to wait for everybody around you dying you could be suffering all your life. I can't relate to that.

If you're suffering, you're not likely to make anybody happy while you're here. Atleast for my own part. I don't see myself as a person who gives out happy thoughts or moments to others, so why should I stay here?

CTB when you have kids that solely depend on you is shitty AF, unless you have a terminal illness or something. I would never forgive my parent if I got thrown into the foster care system after their death. That's part of the reason I never had kids.

If you never asked for kids, but got them anyway because your gf got pregnant and wanting to keep the baby against your will, then what? That happened to me two times.

I'm not gonna stay around because of that. My kids are not dependent on me. I haven't seen my first one in like 7 years. So she doesn't need me. At all.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I don't have kids so I don't know enough about that aspect of things but I do know I am incredibly irresponsible. I'm so irresponsible in fact that I've tanked any opportunities to grow as a person or reach any sort of emotional maturity. This irresponsibility runs so deep that even if I were to work on it, I feel it would be too late by then and ultimately not worth it at all. It also means that the most responsible thing for me to do actually is to CTB lest I be allowed to stay alive and cause more harm to the world and myself by existing.

 

[Kennish]

I am quite extreme when it comes to my views on suicide. I believe every individual is free to make a decision about whether or not they want to live or die, irrespective of whatever small or big responsabilities they might have.

I understand that having children is the ultimate responsability, but even in that case I support the individual's choice.

Yes. Any individual is free willed to make that decision. I support anybody who ctb even with children. As it is for my own part.

Every person has the free will to end their life

 

[WhiteRabbit]

No. I have kids. But I never asked for them. Not the first, not the second one. I love them with all my heart. But they are not lost without me.

I don't see suicide as irresponsible. If a person is suffering, why should that person stay in suffering because of other people?

There are alot of people who will be sad about it when I ctb, but they will get over it and on with their lives. My parents for example. They never gave me the love and security in my childhood and teens. They never learned me anything. So why should I keep suffering just because they may be sad that I'm gone? I can't see it.

I've been suicidal since age 13 maybe. And the more I tell people about it the more distancing they give me.

My parents never call me. They don't do shit for me and never has.

I don't see suicide as irresponsible. My kids don't live with me and are not dependent on me.

People will miss me, but my suffering can't stand a lifetime, just because other people will be sad or miss or will maybe "need" me for stuff.

If you have to wait for everybody around you dying you could be suffering all your life. I can't relate to that.

If you're suffering, you're not likely to make anybody happy while you're here. Atleast for my own part. I don't see myself as a person who gives out happy thoughts or moments to others, so why should I stay here?

If you never asked for kids, but got them anyway because your gf got pregnant and wanting to keep the baby against your will, then what? That happened to me two times.

I'm not gonna stay around because of that. My kids are not dependent on me. I haven't seen my first one in like 7 years. So she doesn't need me. At all.

If your children don't solely depend on you, you aren't who I was taking about.

 

[Kennish]

If your children don't solely depend on you, you aren't who I was taking about.

I understand. I didn't notice the solely part.

But I must say. That if the parent who is taking care of the child, have arranged someone else to take care of them after their death I would still say its not irresponsible. Because if a person is suffering, the person is suffering, and a person that is suffering is in the long run not a good influence on a child. It could damage the child even more staying around then leaving.

That's just my opinion.

None of my parents are dead, but I actually think my life would have been better if I were left in others care then them, when I was a child.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

I understand. I didn't notice the solely part.

But I must say. That if the parent who is taking care of the child, have arranged someone else to take care of them after their death I would still say its not irresponsible. Because if a person is suffering, the person is suffering, and a person that is suffering is in the long run not a good influence on a child. It could damage the child even more staying around then leaving.

That's just my opinion.

None of my parents are dead, but I actually think my life would have been better if I were left in others care then them, when I was a child.

I guess. I personally don't think I could CTB and not be totally sure what was going to happen to my child, even if I thought I was leaving them with someone responsible.

I know most of us are going to hurt people when we leave, but abandoning your own kid like that just hits different IMO.

 

[motel rooms]

Don't go, come here, I have cookies

I don't want your cookies, you didn't laugh at my joke!

On a serious note, I know I'm gonna ctb & leave my husband behind because I'm 12 years older than him & I don't want to get too old & useless. I think that's responsible of me.