Discussion When can it be considered suffering?

[mkmk_1]

Suffering seems to be a prerequisite to suicide.

Yet I am not suffering, I am not struggling. I am disappointed with life. I grew up believing life would be like the books I've read, the games I play, the movies I watch. Yet it's nothing like that, instead of epic quests, I have to get up to go to work for the majority of my life to fund the small amount of time I have to pursue hobbies. But that seems awful.

I can't see my family understanding. I can't imagine " I don't want to do this" being a valid reason for them. I'm not suffering, I have no history. I am just disappointed. I've tried to find better answers online, but this really is it. I have a good job. I have a good career. I hate it being most of my life, and if this is all there is, I just don't want to do this anymore.

It feels cheap to call that suffering when most of you have battled with mental illnesses and loss and trauma. I am blessed with a "good" life, a good job, a good gf, an okay family. Yet I don't want it and there's no options to get what I want because capitalism forces me forward under threat of homelessness. I cant say this anyone I know, or else I will be called ungrateful, privileged, lucky.

So what counts as suffering?

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Long term suffering starts with disappointments, to reach such levels, most people have reached here, takes often years. And there are as many reasons for this, as there are individuals here. The earlier you find a way for you that gives you the balance you wish for the better it is for your future.

I'm fully aware that you do not want to be a 9-5 slave but this takes a lot of efforts to go another way. It is possible but it can also fail and cause more sufferings in the end in the case it fails.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

I don't think suffering is necessarily a prerequisite to suicide. For one thing we have to distinguish between suicides carried out with little deliberation, in which the notion of suffering isn't really relevant, and those carried out after a period of long consideration.

In the second case I don't think suffering as such is a prerequisite either. I mean, if you don't think the word suffering captures your experience then that's the bottom line. But I think in that case the universal factor is concluding that life isn't worthwhile or rewarding enough, but I don't think that that has to be necessarily accompanied by long-standing suffering, even though it usually is.

So it seems that would apply to you, that you just don't find life rewarding enough. Certainly not liking life is a valid reason to kill yourself. I have the impression I wouldn't kill myself if I had a life resembling yours, but that's not really relevant to your situation.

I think a lot of people hate the mundaneness of life and that's why escapism into fiction is so common. You mentioned that there are things you would want to do but capitalism prevents you from doing, in other worlds things grounded in the real world rather than a fantasy land. What are those things?

 

[mkmk_1]

The earlier you find a way for you that gives you the balance you wish for the better it is for your future.

How? The fundamental issue can't be changed. I just don't want to work. I understand life will not always go my way, and I can just "deal with it" if the end result is something I want but there's no reward for going through it besides the chance to suffer again the next day.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

How? The fundamental issue can't be changed. I just don't want to work. I understand life will not always go my way, and I can just "deal with it" if the end result is something I want but there's no reward for going through it besides the chance to suffer again the next day.

You don't want to work because you don't love what you do! When you love what you do, then you don't have a feeling that it is work.

 

[BoredomSeeker]

I think you yourself can decide what is worth CTB'ing over. I would consider my life pretty good all things considered, but my anxiety gets in the way a lot because I become unreasonably afraid of events that most people would just brush off. It feels like my reasoning for wanting to CBT is way less good than others' reason, but I'm still gonna go through with it eventually.

 

[Forever Sleep]

It's an interesting question. I think you ARE dreading suffering in the future though. You're not picturing yourself in a dream job with a sports car and a swimming pool. You're picturing (the more likely- in my opinion) 9-5 (at least) slog most people do. Not REALLY earning enough to get by. Being so tired and stressed that you don't really enjoy the leisure time you do have. Just trying to distract yourself as best you can- when you can. Overall- just not seeing much point to being a cog in the machine.

I'd argue that- not being able or not feeling able to live the life you want to- not anywhere near it- DOES create suffering. A kind of loss really. Loss of what you hoped your life would be. Being a pessimist myself- I share that dread. Is heartbreak/ache suffering? Yes- I'd say. It's like we're mourning the life we hoped we would have.

Maybe it won't help you but I'd say my CURRENT situation is similar to yours. It ISN'T terrible right now but it's on the brink of becoming terrible! I'd say I have had trauma in the past- not the best childhood at all and that's when I developed ideation. In truth though- while it affects me- it isn't the main reason I want to CTB now (it was back then.) My main reason is in fact- the same as yours. I want to save myself from a future I feel almost certain I'll hate.

I feel qualified to know that because I've already been where I'm likely to end up. It's VERY likely I'll have to quit my financially disasterous freelance creative 'career' and go back into some shitty wage slave job- if I can even find one that is! I know at this point- all the pro-lifers would be jumping up and down screaming- you have the amazing potential to dictate your future!! Yes and no- of course we can TRY to steer things in a more positive direction. Doesn't mean we'll succeed. Doesn't mean it will feel worth it if we do. For me- I'm 43. I know what I've tried in the past to kickstart my life again- I've tried lots of different things. It's getting to a point where I don't want to try anymore.

For you- I simply don't know. I'd say you were suffering- definitely. You wouldn't have looked for this site if you weren't. As to what will happen in your future- no one is going to know. You COULD of course end up ok. I COULD too. It's just going to depend on whether we want to face all that. What kind of energy we put into doing it and sadly- luck. I do wish you luck though- in whatever you decide to do.

 

[BoredomSeeker]

You don't want to work because you don't love what you do! When you love what you do, then you don't have a feeling that it is work.

Not everyone can love their job. In fact, I'd argue that most people at best tolerate their job. Oftentimes, even if you do find a job you love, it tends to not pay well or be difficult to actually get the job.

 

[mkmk_1]

I think a lot of people hate the mundaneness of life and that's why escapism into fiction is so common. You mentioned that there are things you would want to do but capitalism prevents you from doing, in other worlds things grounded in the real world rather than a fantasy land. What are those things?

I don't know anymore. Over the years, I've lost interest in the real-world so much I only really remember the joys I get from escapism.

I enjoy music quite a bit, but I am not talented enough to make money off of it, and turning my hobbies into money is what got me here in the first place ( I used to love programming, yet having It as a job has completely killed my enjoyment of it. I've tried really hard to find that enjoyment again outside of worlds I can never visit in this life. But I just can't find that feeling I had for life growing up.

I want to learn how to lucid dream. And that's an goal I am looking towards, but that just takes escapism to the next level.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Not everyone can love their job. In fact, I'd argue that most people at best tolerate their job. Oftentimes, even if you do find a job you love, it tends to not pay well or be difficult to actually get the job.

Unfortunately this is true for the vast majority out there.

 

[FuneralCry]

Your feelings and wish to die are completely valid, of course nobody is obligated to continue delaying the inevitable and it doesn't matter if other people are technically in more unbearable situations, I think that feeling trapped in any situation that you hate will always count as suffering.

I personally see existence itself as suffering, I find it tiring just being conscious and aware, for me the only relief from suffering could ever lie in the state of permanent non-existence. And it's true that existence is just a futile and meaningless burden that leads to nothing and nowhere other than us decaying from age, I think it's perfectly logical to want to escape from this as there's just no point to existing anyway, one doesn't have to suffer so extremely in order to wish for death. I personally always see it as being preferable to not exist, even if there wasn't any extreme suffering existing would still be an undesirable, unappealing chore. And to me it's really understandable not wishing to be a slave to the society as working is just a way to torture people.

 

[numbnesshuman]

I think everyone has their own definition of suffering. None of us grow up in the same environment, that's why we have different views on suffering. In your situation, I think you're suffering because reality is so disappointing.

I have a similar background to you …good bf, an okay family, nice career… but I just mentally break down suddenly - depression relapse. I become emotionally numb to everything, including my bf. My parents don't know how to handle my situation. My bf is trying to help me and stop me to ctb. Buy that's why I want to ctb to end anything.

I don't think ctb needs suffering to be prerequisite…everyone has their own reasons for that and I juz hope everyone will go peace.

 

[hana0]

I think you yourself can decide what is worth CTB'ing over. I would consider my life pretty good all things considered, but my anxiety gets in the way a lot because I become unreasonably afraid of events that most people would just brush off. It feels like my reasoning for wanting to CBT is way less good than others' reason, but I'm still gonna go through with it eventually.

I relate. I think I have a pretty good life but the anxiety is killing me