When average people talk about being alive with me we might use the same terms but we have a completely different understanding of them

[noname223]

I am at this day clinic. I think the staff is trained to handle suicidal patients/people who finally will ctb. This is at least something I repeat in my mind to ease my guilty conscience for burderning them.

My closest staff member is an extremely positive human being. Me and many others admire her for how positive she can be. (being surrounded by negative, suicidal and depressed patients all the time.) Many people in this clinic realized I am a dead man. They know my life quality is abysmal since many many years (actually over a decade) and that there is barely is a chance for a better life. (it is likely it will become way worse) I had issues to look people into their eyes in the past because I had a guilty conscience. But with my last therapists we successfully trained eye contact (without telling him that the suicidality was a key factor in that). When I look into her eyes I notice that she is scared to interact with me. I have the feeling she has always in her mind that I will eventually kill myself. My consideration why this does not matter is the following: it is a clinic for emergency cases I might kill myself in a few months. When some time has passed they will forget me. Or at least most of me. Actually she remembered it that I was suicidal 4 years ago when I was there what really surprised me. But it could have been a guess I think almost everyone there is suicidal.

I am not sure how much time has to pass so that they don't notify the clinic that I killed myself. Another main consideration is: my friends and family will suffer so much more than the clinic staff. I also try not to emphasize that I am a victim of child abuse and bullying being there. I think one empathetic psychiatrist quit her workplace because she was overburdened with my fate.

Before going there I was really scared about a female boss of the clinic who once told me I felt too good for being in a clinic. Seemingly she makes patients cry on a regular basis. Either she is on vacation or ill. She is not present despite the fact she still works there. The other clinic bosses are very friendly to me. Actually they already thanked me 3 times for coming to the clinic. (which is sort of stunning) I asked one friend of mine in the clinic whether that's usual. She was really surprised by it. My conclusion: they always thanked me when I sounded extremely desperate and determined to kill myself (eventually). I think it is their way of saying this guy is going to kill himself thank you for reaching out (Despite the fact we know its useless).

Where was I? The extremely positive staff member. Sadly I forgot the context when she said the following. But she said something like "I hope your life is not always so hard for you life is way too short for wanting to end it earlier." In the context she said it I was absolutely not angry on her. She was very careful and respectful when she dropped it. And I see from where she is coming from. I just smiled and kept silent. Here is what I actually think about it. We are talking about different things. We have different understandings of what life means. I am in a lot of pain for more than a decade. I am more or less at the end of the rope. I tried to save my life from poverty with college. But I think I have gone so much over my pain limit that it might drive me over the edge. I can understand what people mean when the say "Life is beautiful" "Life is too short for suicide", "It is sad we once have to die". But that simply is not my reality. My life quality is very very poor over a very long time period. I would cry out of happiness if something killed me soon (in a somewhat peaceful way it could even involve some pain) so that I don't have to do it by myself.

We just have very opposite life experiences. And I notice this with many people outside this forum. Severe, serious suicidality is sort of a unique experience. Many people cannot relate to the feeling. Some people might know temporary suicidal feelings. But considering it for so many years with barely any prospect of improvement that's different. I think it changes a person. Personally, for me in many instances for the worse but in a few instances maybe in some few good ways.

Being alive is different for me compared to the average person. I have the feeling me and that woman we live in different realities. We use the same terms but they mean something completely different for us.

What do you think?

 

[noname223]

Bump

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

Thank you for making this thread, hopefully you will get some other responses too, in time. It's a very important topic that isn't discussed nearly enough, I think. I know you've said before in your previous posts that you feel guilty sometimes for giving honest accounts of your experiences with the clinics and psychiatry in general, but I think that you should be free to speak your truth.

It is a fact that the current mental health industry is not equipped to deal with long term suicidal patients, and you are raising awareness of a pretty critical gap in the current methods of care. The fundamental flaw I find with current psychiatry and psychology training is that when it comes to suicidal people, every protocol, guideline, and intervention is tailored towards people with ephemeral, short-term suicidality that manifests as a one off event. Not someone who has been suicidal and suffering vehemently for many years.

I agree with you that struggling whatsoever from long term suicidality s a very unique experience. When it comes to people like you and I, we are never represented in the discussions about suicidality. It's some kind of unspoken elephant in the room in the psych world that some people can be done with this world for a very long time, or even their whole life past a certain point. A lot of the common narratives just don't resonate with me, because I have been at least passively suicidal for over half of the time I've been alive. I cannot relate to these feelings being some temporary and fleeting desire due to a moment of crisis like the way that the media portrays it.

They often mean well, but I think you're absolutely right that the people working in the field are very out of touch. It's like you say, this type of pain is incredibly uncommon, and both mental health professionals and the average layperson are often completely foreign to it. Relating to the average person feels nearly impossible to me as well, so you are definitely not alone there.

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

I've noticed this as well, that "professionals" and laypeople alike just don't understand my suicidality and keep treating me as if I'm part of a group (ie. the temporarily depressed) that I'm not part of. For example, when I was in a psych ward, a nurse would come and ask me every single day if I was still suicidal. It absolutely baffled me. I've been suicidal for years, and yet you have the audacity to think that being trapped here against my will has changed anything? I don't want to blame the staff, though. They were most likely just following protocols, as @KuriGohan&Kamehameha explained so succinctly.

Have you read anything by Jean Améry? I read his book "On Suicide: A Discourse on Voluntary Death" (IIRC you're German so the original is Hand an sich Legen: Diskurs über den Freitod) and it gave me some vocabulary to describe this disparity. Basically, he says that these people are all using the "logic of life," whereas seriously suicidal people have stepped outside of that logic, so they can't speak the same language anymore. I'd definitely recommend the book, especially since you can read it in its original language.

 

[lament.]

I'm of the opinion that unless the people you are talking to themselves are severely suicidal then they will probably never understand. I feel as though I could spend an eternity explaining how I feel and why but they would never understand it unless they have gone through it themselves, and even then every suicidal person has different reasons and world views which can be wildly different from anothers. Genuinely trying to have a conversation about it with people who aren't even a single step close to understanding how it feels to be this way is a hopeless task that isn't worth wasting what little time I have on from my experience.

These people *usually* mean well or genuinely want to learn more, but I 100% agree with what you said, we live in different realities. I tried explaining to someone how I can be enjoying myself and having fun with people, while at the same time be hating every moment of it and wishing I wasn't there, but it just baffled them. Part of me is glad they don't understand though, as it means their brain clearly isn't as shit as mine.

 

[noname223]

Thank you for making this thread, hopefully you will get some other responses too, in time. It's a very important topic that isn't discussed nearly enough, I think. I know you've said before in your previous posts that you feel guilty sometimes for giving honest accounts of your experiences with the clinics and psychiatry in general, but I think that you should be free to speak your truth.

It is a fact that the current mental health industry is not equipped to deal with long term suicidal patients, and you are raising awareness of a pretty critical gap in the current methods of care. The fundamental flaw I find with current psychiatry and psychology training is that when it comes to suicidal people, every protocol, guideline, and intervention is tailored towards people with ephemeral, short-term suicidality that manifests as a one off event. Not someone who has been suicidal and suffering vehemently for many years.

I agree with you that struggling whatsoever from long term suicidality s a very unique experience. When it comes to people like you and I, we are never represented in the discussions about suicidality. It's some kind of unspoken elephant in the room in the psych world that some people can be done with this world for a very long time, or even their whole life past a certain point. A lot of the common narratives just don't resonate with me, because I have been at least passively suicidal for over half of the time I've been alive. I cannot relate to these feelings being some temporary and fleeting desire due to a moment of crisis like the way that the media portrays it.

They often mean well, but I think you're absolutely right that the people working in the field are very out of touch. It's like you say, this type of pain is incredibly uncommon, and both mental health professionals and the average layperson are often completely foreign to it. Relating to the average person feels nearly impossible to me as well, so you are definitely not alone there.

Thanks a lot for this well-written and thoughtful response. I appreciate it.

I've noticed this as well, that "professionals" and laypeople alike just don't understand my suicidality and keep treating me as if I'm part of a group (ie. the temporarily depressed) that I'm not part of. For example, when I was in a psych ward, a nurse would come and ask me every single day if I was still suicidal. It absolutely baffled me. I've been suicidal for years, and yet you have the audacity to think that being trapped here against my will has changed anything? I don't want to blame the staff, though. They were most likely just following protocols, as @KuriGohan&Kamehameha explained so succinctly.

Have you read anything by Jean Améry? I read his book "On Suicide: A Discourse on Voluntary Death" (IIRC you're German so the original is Hand an sich Legen: Diskurs über den Freitod) and it gave me some vocabulary to describe this disparity. Basically, he says that these people are all using the "logic of life," whereas seriously suicidal people have stepped outside of that logic, so they can't speak the same language anymore. I'd definitely recommend the book, especially since you can read it in its original language.

So far I did not read anything by Jean Améry. Maybe I should do that. There are many interesting philosophers talking about suicide. I am looking for something to ease the pain of having to do it with my own hands.