wilbursoot6969
Member
- Nov 1, 2023
- 51
If I order SN, what's the risk of the police turning up at my house for a welfare check? I'm in the UK.
Dont worry, i got a welfare check and i said it was a mistake., didn't order what they were talking about , they couldn't even name the substance.
No judge will grant a warrant to search your house. So they cannot enter.
Just repeat , i dont know what you are talking about , its a mistake on your part.
No judge will grant a warrant to search your house. So they cannot enter.
Just repeat , i dont know what you are talking about , its a mistake on your part.
I get exactly what you're saying but for me they've won, I can't risk having the police at the door for a welfare check and opening that can of worms at home.
I'd never considered SN as an option but I'm definitely becoming more and more bitter that it's effectively been removed as an option.
MatrixPrisoner
Enlightened
- Jul 8, 2023
- 1,403
You're going to use it to cure salmon....right?
Don't do it unless the suppliers are on the same page and label the parcel as something else. You WILL get a welfare check if the parcel is labeled SN or if they discover it at customs. Be very very careful.
Depends if your GP knows and if you currently having treatment for suicidal idealation,
wilbursoot6969
Member
- Nov 1, 2023
- 51
The problem is I might not be at home when the police come and I live with my mother, she's going to be there if the police come to my door. Still, as you say though, I would insist I know nothing about it but of course it would raise concerns with my mother which I don't want to deal with.
lol… as I say above though, it's my mother that's the problem
So are you saying if I'm not known to my GP as being suicidal (which I'm not) then i'm fine? I don't know if that alone would be enough though, I've heard of people here getting welfare checks just from ordering it (and in the case of one person literally just entering their address in the website, they didn't even order it)
I'm in Oz so i might get welfare checks, search warrants and court appearances for trying to smuggle illegal stuff from overseas. Makes the whole thing seem like it's to hard to bother with. I guess SN isn't worth the trouble. It's a shame.
Welfare checks are nothing. Pretend you are okay, have your place tidy, and you'll be fine.
motherland
A tiny penny rolling up the walls inside.
- Jul 29, 2023
- 70
I think I saw you on a thread I posted some of my experience on, OP.
Honest answer - at the moment it seems the risk is high. Mislabelled or otherwise.
Mine was discretely packaged, the customs label had no indication of it's actual contents (I honestly can't remember what they decided to label it as but it convincing enough, depends on size of parcel I guess). Anyway it made it through customs fine, Royal Mail tracking fine. (This is coming from someone who knows a lot about obtaining illicit substances via post in the UK btw lol).
And then yesterday almost two months later (!!!) the police turned up saying they know SN was delivered to this address and name. So it could be that they're now working through newer flagged up sources retroactively. I have no idea. Total shock. Other than that, like others have said, welfare checks are a breeze if you can blag that you're mentally sound and have no intention of harming yourself. Cool calm and collected, not sure what they're alluding to but just stress how fine you are. I've gone so far as to say "I don't think I need to give you any of that information do I? So I won't be doing so, thanks" on welfare checks (not pertaining to SN). Oh, and goes without saying if you do happen to have anything illegal hanging around, probs get that elsewhere because they will just come on in. They want to make sure you're not dead.
I just think everyone in the UK should be on high alert rn. Like I said this only happened yesterday but I should probably make a separate warning post because the "mislabelling" myth is apparently over.
And wanna dispel the idea that the police will do a background track on your health. For better or mostly for worse they never do - their priority on a welfare check is getting to verify your safety asap. Obvs that changes if someone tips them off that you have XYZ issues and fills out the context (eg. a certain disorder or actively abusing substances) but that wouldn't happen with SN. If you present as sound they'll eventually be on their way.
Honest answer - at the moment it seems the risk is high. Mislabelled or otherwise.
Mine was discretely packaged, the customs label had no indication of it's actual contents (I honestly can't remember what they decided to label it as but it convincing enough, depends on size of parcel I guess). Anyway it made it through customs fine, Royal Mail tracking fine. (This is coming from someone who knows a lot about obtaining illicit substances via post in the UK btw lol).
And then yesterday almost two months later (!!!) the police turned up saying they know SN was delivered to this address and name. So it could be that they're now working through newer flagged up sources retroactively. I have no idea. Total shock. Other than that, like others have said, welfare checks are a breeze if you can blag that you're mentally sound and have no intention of harming yourself. Cool calm and collected, not sure what they're alluding to but just stress how fine you are. I've gone so far as to say "I don't think I need to give you any of that information do I? So I won't be doing so, thanks" on welfare checks (not pertaining to SN). Oh, and goes without saying if you do happen to have anything illegal hanging around, probs get that elsewhere because they will just come on in. They want to make sure you're not dead.
I just think everyone in the UK should be on high alert rn. Like I said this only happened yesterday but I should probably make a separate warning post because the "mislabelling" myth is apparently over.
And wanna dispel the idea that the police will do a background track on your health. For better or mostly for worse they never do - their priority on a welfare check is getting to verify your safety asap. Obvs that changes if someone tips them off that you have XYZ issues and fills out the context (eg. a certain disorder or actively abusing substances) but that wouldn't happen with SN. If you present as sound they'll eventually be on their way.
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motherland
A tiny penny rolling up the walls inside.
- Jul 29, 2023
- 70
Update: expect welfare checks. It's 1 AM and I've just had a second police check at my second address. They have all my details and not even the details I used for the order. This is check number 2. Police are definitely investigating M Store / MDS. Can't speak for other sources. They wouldn't have this bible of information otherwise. But they have everything on me now. Like this isn't my first rodeo and they've never had this much intel on me, they're investigating for sure
motherland
A tiny penny rolling up the walls inside.
- Jul 29, 2023
- 70
Concerning UK update: I don't wish to alarm anyone but upon receiving my second welfare check at 1 AM last night in two days (and still acting under the precursor that it's not actually illegal to possess) I've had a bit of a freak out and gone to read gov.uk in further detail. Check the section under Criminal offences. It reads:
Importing, acquiring, possessing and using
It is an offence for a member of the public to import, acquire, possess or use any of the substances without holding a valid EPP licence issued by the Home Office.
If found guilty of this offence, there is a maximum penalty of 2 years' imprisonment and/or a fine.
Kinda shitting myself now bc they said they have all my details and could be in touch. If anyone has any advice for me that'd be much appreciated because the whole thing did have an ominous tone to it.
Link: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ns-and-explosive-precursors#criminal-offences
Importing, acquiring, possessing and using
It is an offence for a member of the public to import, acquire, possess or use any of the substances without holding a valid EPP licence issued by the Home Office.
If found guilty of this offence, there is a maximum penalty of 2 years' imprisonment and/or a fine.
Kinda shitting myself now bc they said they have all my details and could be in touch. If anyone has any advice for me that'd be much appreciated because the whole thing did have an ominous tone to it.
Link: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ns-and-explosive-precursors#criminal-offences
Kundalini Guy
FULLY RECOVERED
- Mar 27, 2023
- 516
What websites can you order from and have delivered to the UK? I can't find the forum search button for some reason! :S
motherland
A tiny penny rolling up the walls inside.
- Jul 29, 2023
- 70
No point. Illegal now and police visit basically guaranteed
"Long ago". If I'd have been a few days earlier I think I'd be in the clear too. Changed in October.
motherland
A tiny penny rolling up the walls inside.
- Jul 29, 2023
- 70
So you've read the link … read the criminal offences section. Read about the EPP licence for a substance considered to be a poision…? Huh?
It's not on the lists. Licence is needed for regulated explosive precursors and regulated poisons.
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Mongoose
Member
- Apr 26, 2023
- 23
I'm in the UK. It's used for legitimate purposes. I ordered it, and it arrived with no problem or welfare check.
Sodium nitrite is not on the EPP list, so you don't need a license to possess it.
Sodium nitrite is not on the EPP list, so you don't need a license to possess it.
motherland
A tiny penny rolling up the walls inside.
- Jul 29, 2023
- 70
Sigh.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...xplosives-precursors-and-poison#chemical-list
Reportable substances
Explosive precursors
- acetone
- aluminium powders
- calcium nitrate
- calcium ammonium nitrate
- magnesium nitrate hexahydrate
- magnesium powders
- potassium nitrate
- sodium nitrate
- sulfur[footnote 1]
Poisons
- aldicarb
- alpha-chloralose
- ammonia 10% w/w
- barium, salts of, the following: barium carbonate; barium silicofluoride
- carbofuran
- cycloheximide
- dinitrocresols (DNOC) their compounds with a metal or a base
- dinoseb its compounds with a metal or a base
- dinoterb
- drazoxolon; its salts
- endosulfan
- endothal its salts
- endrin
- fentin compounds of
- formaldehyde 5% w/w
- formic acid 25% w/w
- hydrofluoric acid alkali metal bifluorides; ammonium bifluoride alkali metal fluorides; ammonium fluoride sodium silicofluoride
- metallic oxalates
- metal phosphides[footnote 1]
- metal sulfides and polysulfides[footnote 1]
- methomyl
- nicotine its salts; its quaternary compounds
- nitrobenzene 0.1% w/w
- oxamyl
- paraquat salts of
- phenols (as defined in part 2 of this schedule) in substances containing no more than 60%, weight in weight, of phenols; compounds of phenols with a metal in substances containing no more than the equivalent of 60%, weight in weight, of phenols
- phosphorus compounds, the following: azinphos-methyl, chlorfenvinphos, demephion, demeton-S-methyl, demeton-S-methyl sulphone, dialifos, dichlorvos, dioxathion, disulfoton, fonofos, mecarbam, mephosfolan, methidathion, mevinphos, omethoate, oxydemeton-methyl, parathion, phenkapton, phorate, phosphamidon, pirimiphos-ethyl, quinalphos, thiometon, thionazin, triazophos, vamidothion
- potassium hydroxide 17% of total caustic alkalinity
- sodium hydroxide 12% of total caustic alkalinity
- sodium nitrite
- sodium hypochlorite solutions, above 6% available chlorine[footnote 1]
- thiofanox
Furthermore:
The Control of Poisons and Explosives Precursors Regulations 2023 introduced new substances to the lists of regulated explosives precursors and poisons. Offences relating to the acquisition, importation, supply, possession and use of the following substances were added and are effective from 1 October 2023
So please just read the updated gov.uk content thoroughly. I'm not saying it was ALWAYS on there - I'm saying the act itself has been updated.
You definitely will, there have been users from Oz have had welfare checks from threads I've read throughout the years. It sucks though.
Like I said the licence only applies to regulated substances. Sodium Nitrite is a reportable substance.
Mongoose
Member
- Apr 26, 2023
- 23
That is the reportable list, not the regulated list, meaning you have to report It within 24 hours to the police in the event of significant quantity theft.
motherland
A tiny penny rolling up the walls inside.
- Jul 29, 2023
- 70
Genuinely all the content reads like it's just semantics at this point, at least to me. Having ample reason to be bricking it rn. If anyone could actually shine a light and supply the "reportable" list as differentiated from the regulated list, I'd greatly appreciate giving that a read. I have more at stake here than just the SN issue
Genuinely if you are well versed in this section of the law I'd really appreciate some clarification. I'd love to be proven wrong lol
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Mongoose
Member
- Apr 26, 2023
- 23
Regulated substances and concentration thresholds
Explosives precursors
- ammonium nitrate: 16% N[footnote 1]
- hexamine[footnote 1]
- hydrochloric acid: 10% w/w[footnote 1]
- hydrogen peroxide:12% w/w
- nitromethane: 30% w/w
- nitric acid: 3% w/w
- phosphoric acid: 30% w/w[footnote 1]
- potassium chlorate: 40% w/w
- potassium perchlorate: 40% w/w
- sodium chlorate: 40% w/w
- sodium perchlorate: 40% w/w
- sulfuric acid: 15% w/w
Poisons
- aluminium phosphide
- aluminium sulfide[footnote 1]
- sodium sulfide[footnote 1]
- calcium sulfide[footnote 1]
- magnesium sulfide[footnote 1]
- arsenic compounds
- barium salts (other than barium sulphate, barium carbonate and barium silicofluoride)
- bromomethane
- chloropicrin
- fluoroacetic acid, its salts and fluoroacetamide
- hydrogen cyanide and metal cyanides (other than ferrocyanides and ferricyanides)
- lead acetates and compounds of lead with acids from fixed oils
- magnesium phosphide
- mercury compounds
- oxalic acid: 10% w/w
- phenols (phenol; phenolic isomers of the following: cresols, xylenols, monoethylphenols); compounds of phenols with a metal, 60% w/w of phenols or, for compounds of phenols with a metal, the equivalent of 60% w/w of phenols
- phosphorus yellow
- strychnine and its salts and its quaternary compounds
- thallium and its salts
- zinc phosphide[footnote 1]
- calcium phosphide[footnote 1]
- 2,4- dinitrophenol and compounds including sodium dinitrophenolate[footnote 1]
Reportable substances
Explosive precursors
- acetone
- aluminium powders
- calcium nitrate
- calcium ammonium nitrate
- magnesium nitrate hexahydrate
- magnesium powders
- potassium nitrate
- sodium nitrate
- sulfur[footnote 1]
Poisons
- aldicarb
- alpha-chloralose
- ammonia 10% w/w
- barium, salts of, the following: barium carbonate; barium silicofluoride
- carbofuran
- cycloheximide
- dinitrocresols (DNOC) their compounds with a metal or a base
- dinoseb its compounds with a metal or a base
- dinoterb
- drazoxolon; its salts
- endosulfan
- endothal its salts
- endrin
- fentin compounds of
- formaldehyde 5% w/w
- formic acid 25% w/w
- hydrofluoric acid alkali metal bifluorides; ammonium bifluoride alkali metal fluorides; ammonium fluoride sodium silicofluoride
- metallic oxalates
- metal phosphides[footnote 1]
- metal sulfides and polysulfides[footnote 1]
- methomyl
- nicotine its salts; its quaternary compounds
- nitrobenzene 0.1% w/w
- oxamyl
- paraquat salts of
- phenols (as defined in part 2 of this schedule) in substances containing no more than 60%, weight in weight, of phenols; compounds of phenols with a metal in substances containing no more than the equivalent of 60%, weight in weight, of phenols
- phosphorus compounds, the following: azinphos-methyl, chlorfenvinphos, demephion, demeton-S-methyl, demeton-S-methyl sulphone, dialifos, dichlorvos, dioxathion, disulfoton, fonofos, mecarbam, mephosfolan, methidathion, mevinphos, omethoate, oxydemeton-methyl, parathion, phenkapton, phorate, phosphamidon, pirimiphos-ethyl, quinalphos, thiometon, thionazin, triazophos, vamidothion
- potassium hydroxide 17% of total caustic alkalinity
- sodium hydroxide 12% of total caustic alkalinity
- sodium nitrite
- sodium hypochlorite solutions, above 6% available chlorine[footnote 1]
- thiofanox
I know it's a lot to read. The important difference is.. if you look at reportable substances. Acetone is on there. it's not illegal for a member of the public to own that substance, as it is used in nail polish remover. reportable substances are not regulated
Honestly, you have nothing to worry about, I got my SN months ago, and I've not been arrested or had a welfare check, even after I admitted that I was going to CTB to my Mental health services and stated I had it in my possession
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Thanks for your posts on this & I really sympthaise with you & appreciate your updates. Please do keep us updated if you can & I certainly will try and help you if I can by sharing my experiences.
Have you had a welfare check BEFORE ordering from the MDS store?
I ask because is this why the police seem to have more intel on you now?
When my welfare check happened in May the police had no intel on me really & it was a friendly chat. This was despite it also being my second welfare visit (for something other than buying SN). So Wonder if the welfare check rules have changed recently?
"Ultimately we do need to do things differently (for police welfare checks)."
Is stated in this BBC news article from June; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-65775299
Kore
Lonely in a room full of people…
- Nov 2, 2023
- 146
Damn this wasn't fun to read - though @motherland sounds like you're fine as far as the law is concerned, thankfully. But SN sounded so appealing, seems like i discovered it at perfectly the wrong time 
that said... with the way things currently are, its still safe to order it if the only consequence is a police visit to check you're not ded..
that said... with the way things currently are, its still safe to order it if the only consequence is a police visit to check you're not ded..
motherland
A tiny penny rolling up the walls inside.
- Jul 29, 2023
- 70
I really want to thank you for clarifying that distinction. GOD I wish they'd have made it clearer!!!
I'm in touch with a few people who've ordered in the months before from sources now gone - and they've been fine. No checks or interception. This is clearly a very recent breach and I've been unfortunate. I disclose my personal details but there were things they relayed to me that they simply wouldn't have known without having been able to check my transactions. This particular source has surely been cracked. But thank you so much for clarifying that. I haven't slept so my brain is fried lol.
Were you able to garner whether there ARE any penalties for POSSESSION / attempting to import a REPORTABLE substance? Or do those charges just fall to unlicensed suppliers? I'm not sure I can face rereading that hellish webpage lol and I'm not sure I understand the 24hr significant quantity theft business. This is why I dropped the law module of my degree lol
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