What’s SN like (and surviving)

[Lostandfound7]

U went from hmpph'n to laughing!!??♡♡♡
*face palm*

 

[muffin222]

I feel that 99% of autumnal's posts are harsh and disrespectful

I don't think so. I think autumnal just writes in a very straightforward, analytical, somewhat clipped manner that sounds cold or unfeeling in comparison to the more casual tone of most of the posters on the forum. I don't find their posts disrespectful because of that, though. It's just different

 

[InTheAirTonight]

I don't think so. I think autumnal just writes in a very straightforward, analytical, somewhat clipped manner that sounds cold or unfeeling in comparison to the more casual tone of most of the posters on the forum. I don't find their posts disrespectful because of that, though. It's just different

I think their messages would come across as less aggressive if they didn't bold/underline words in every sentence. It's annoying and patronizing.

 

[muffin222]

I think his messages would come across as less aggressive if he didn't bold/underline words in every sentence. It's annoying and patronizing.

I can understand that. *shrug* It doesn't read as aggressive to me so much as just emphatic and passionate about the topic at hand. We all interpret messages differently, though

 

[Quarky00]

@autumnal was right .

I took big sips and you'll think that small sips won't do anything. I was wrong.

My conclusion is DONT TASTE TEST OR DO IT IMPULSIVELY

I like @HorribleFeelings1 a lot , but this shows a problem with the perception of SN which was prevviously mentioned a lot -- and how easily it is used . @HorribleFeelings1 is actually cool to share the feelings and thoughts -- that you don't realize what you're doing untill the glass is there (and even after..). So I'm not criticizing OP and I understand this was impulsive . Just asking how many times can we emphasize this . I know in these situations our mind does not work . So , yes , a harsh warning sign is warranted , even if it focused on the problematic SN intake rather than OP's distress . Overall there was a good balance in comments and many offered comfort . Someone had to say what @autumnal said . And there's no easy way to say it .

So I am sorry , but there is a problem with absentmindedly drinking poisons .

I understand the attitude towards @autumnal 's 'cold' comments but I do not wholly share that sentiment as even OP connected to their notes (basically written them themselves) -- and did not take it personally . What harm was done . This is significant if "carefree SN intake" becomes a norm here . I guess if one doesn't like such comments , and as long as OP is not hurt and it's not too awful , it's better to move along . Or at least make a friendly comment rather than do back-and-forth , getting stuck on a comment and analyzing it ... 'Damn that's cold' , yeah . It happens . There's no need to make a commotion out of it . This thread is now more full of @autumnal - related content than a conversation about @HorribleFeelings1 ...

I'm sorry @HorribleFeelings1 for that distressing experience , hope you feel slightly better now .

 

[muffin222]

She's labeled members, their actions, their opinions, and the things they're vulnerably presenting to work out so many times in degrading and demeaning ways, including stupid.

I love how @HorribleFeelings1 responded. I love how @Lostandfound7 responded. So. Many. Members have tried to get through to @autumnal, to say, hey, please be kinder, please use different language.

Seriously, my heart hurts as I say this, @autumnal, and I say it with compassion and caring, just like @Lostandfound7 did -- folks don't want you to go away or to die. So many of us wonder who the fuck hurt you, who judged you, who taught you that everyone is so goddamned wrong for making mistakes and for having opinions they didn't agree with? What caused you to be such a hard rock on the outside and not let in anything that would help you to connect with others that are reciprocal, and mutually vulnerable? It's not the infographics or the bold and underlining, it's that they all have an underlying message: you are stupid, you are immoral, you are WRONG. They shame.

And dammit, no one wants to shame you back.

They, we, want to feel safe. How you act is not safe. It's like...hugging cold facts instead of people. And if something gets the tiniest bit through, then you backpedal a bit and find another stance to validate what you were saying, such as in this thread, and it's a common theme -- "I'm not saying the OP is wrong, but others have been wrong (stupid), and if you don't agree with that, it makes us all look bad to the neighbors (how anti's view us)" -- who gives a fuck about what people who we don't respect and don't treat us with respect think about us????

Jesus, @autumnal, how do I and we get through??? We come to you from every angle! Asking, pleading, bitching, ignoring. Those images I suggested in sarcasm were also a cry for you to notice how you make people feel small, step on them, kick them when they're down, shame them, and turn your back with your arms folded when they plead for mercy and respect.

I don't hate you! I want to hug the hurt away that's underneath this kind of behavior. I want you to give those phone numbers to @Lostandfound7 so she can kick some ass on your behalf!

You don't have to leave. You don't even have to apologize. Would you please just at last listen??? Take some time to go through your posts and list every time someone has pointed out the behaviors they don't like? We're all trying to lift you up, not knock you down!!!! If someone does try to knock you down, it's out of frustration and helplessness.

If you can't hear this, fuck. I don't know that I'll ever get through. I don't want to give up on you. Please answer this and only this: Do you want me to give up? If you do, then I will. I won't waste anymore effort where it's not wanted. I'm not co-dependent, I can't control you, and I wouldn't. But if you don't want me to give up, if you want the compassion I bring, then you've got to step toward it.

I can understand your frustration and can feel the empathy that emanates from your posts on here and probably from you as a person as well. However, @autumnal doesn't seem to share your sentiments about the tone of their posts nor do they seem inclined to adjust their posting style accordingly. As tough as it may be to "give up" on someone when you can glimpse at the humanity beyond the words, sometimes the most compassionate course of action (towards ourselves) in these situations is to accept people for what they're willing to deliver and move on </3

 

[Living sucks]

@autumnal was right .



I like @HorribleFeelings1 a lot , but this shows a problem with the perception of SN which was prevviously mentioned a lot -- and how easily it is used . @HorribleFeelings1 is actually cool to share the feelings and thoughts -- that you don't realize what you're doing untill the glass is there (and even after..). So I'm not criticizing OP and I understand this was impulsive . Just asking how many times can we emphasize this . I know in these situations our mind does not work . So , yes , a harsh warning sign is warranted , even if it focused on the problematic SN intake rather than OP's distress . Overall there was a good balance in comments and many offered comfort . Someone had to say what @autumnal said . And there's no easy way to say it .

So I am sorry , but there is a problem with absentmindedly drinking poisons .

I understand the attitude towards @autumnal 's 'cold' comments but I do not wholly share that sentiment as even OP connected to their notes (basically written them themselves) -- and did not take it personally . What harm was done . This is significant if "carefree SN intake" becomes a norm here . I guess if one doesn't like such comments , and as long as OP is not hurt and it's not too awful , it's better to move along . Or at least make a friendly comment rather than do back-and-forth , getting stuck on a comment and analyzing it ... 'Damn that's cold' , yeah . It happens . There's no need to make a commotion out of it . This thread is now more full of @autumnal - related content than a conversation about @HorribleFeelings1 ...

I'm sorry @HorribleFeelings1 for that distressing experience , hope you feel slightly better now .

It is not the WHAT, it is the HOW!
If making people feel like shit is the goal, they are succeeding.

newsflash! If you want people to hear your message and heed the warnings, treating them like shit only makes them shut down NOT listen.

it's now been expressed by a dozen members in 2 months ... at what point does someone examine their own behavior? A member left SS recently because of @autumnal.

If anyone thinks the rude demeaning posts are going to stop the "testing" and experiments and repetitive questions... you're wrong!

 

[muffin222]

It is not the WHAT, it is the HOW!
If making people feel like shit is the goal, they are succeeding.

newsflash! If you want people to hear your message and heed the warnings, treating them like shit only makes them shut down NOT listen.

it's now been expressed by a dozen members in 2 months ... at what point does someone examine their own behavior? A member left SS recently because of @autumnal.

If anyone thinks the rude demeaning posts are going to stop the "testing" and experiments and repetitive questions... you're wrong!

Well, what WILL stop them? Or, at the very least diminish their frequency so that people aren't recklessly "taste testing" poison and feeling encouraged by others doing so? That's really the crux of the issue.

Is there not an ignore or block function on the site? I don't know because I've never looked into blocking anyone, but if such a function exists, why not use that instead of trying in vain to change the tone of people's posts on here when they demonstrate time and time again that they have no intention of changing it?

I've been a member for only a few months, but I've lurked on SS since last August, and I've noticed an unsettling trend. It's like the atmosphere of the site is slowly shifting from a unique gathering place that supports the expression of varied opinions and viewpoints, including ones considered "taboo" or "controversial" to a warm, fuzzy, "Kumbaya" type of environment where everyone is expected to hold hands and uplift each other and provide emotional support to one another at the expense of verbalizing our own opinions. I wasn't aware that that was the function of this site.

I thought this was a site to discuss suicide freely and openly. I'm not knocking anyone who relies on SS for emotional support and friendship, but it's not a support group at its core. It's a site to discuss suicide. Not everyone (including myself) comes here with the intent to use the site like a support group, and these, I would imagine, are the people who don't feel personally attacked by @autumnal's posts. Not everyone is going to be sweet and loving. That's the nature of any anonymous online forum that attracts different people with differing personality types.

Furthermore, why do they need to be? As long as no one is being outright malicious or harassing other members, I don't see why they need to be "tone-policed" and attacked for having strong opinions and expressing those opinions in ways that differ from the majority of posts on here. I don't see the issue; the whole thing just seems highly emotionally charged.

 

[Quarky00]

If making people feel like shit is the goal, they are succeeding.

Did OP on this thread said @autumnal made them feel like shit?
I do not think so .
So this is a moot point .

People are using one member's distress as an excuse to attack another member . @Hasssssuùuu

I understand we bring up all of @autumnal 's previous posts and behaviour . I assume when @autumnal posts something "rude" we will witness a public indictment . Ganging up on member . Is that right ? Some people made short comments . You misundestood my point . Turning it into a circus is a problem . This is now not @HorribleFeelings1 ctb attempt or personal experience -- but the @autumnal circus . Is that your goal @Living sucks ? If so , mission accomplished . Speaking of HOW ...

People may have a perfectly valid case against member's behaviour , but they executed it here magnificently bad

* It's not any single post or you personally -- but the overall mounting criticism that was poured into this thread .

 

[Lostandfound7]

OK, Uncle @Quarky00 ..I'm gonna exit this thread out of love and respect for u..I feel the Beast in me about to come out...

OK @HorribleFeelings1 , u can come back in the room now

 

[Living sucks]

Did OP on this thread said @autumnal made them feel like shit?
I do not think so .
So this is a moot point .

People are using one member's distress as an excuse to attack another member . @Hasssssuùuu

I understand we bring up all of @autumnal 's previous posts and behaviour . I assume when @autumnal posts something "rude" we will witness a public indictment . Ganging up on member . Is that right ? Some people made short comments . You misundestood my point . Turning it into a circus is a problem . This is now not @HorribleFeelings1 ctb attempt or personal experience -- but the @autumnal circus . Is that your goal @Living sucks ? If so , mission accomplished . Speaking of HOW ...

People may have a perfectly valid case against member's behaviour , but they executed it here magnificently bad

* It's not any single post or you personally -- but the overall mounting criticism that was poured into this thread .

Because people are trying to "get through" and the only way is by pointing it out when it occurs. There is no hate behind my message. They have great things to add and are very helpful... but when a member leaves this forum coz they feel attacked and belittled, that's a problem. No one should feel that way here!

A nice way to say, that made me feel like shit!

,Hey I appreciate that you care and use tough love, but it doesn't feel right to just force frustration into others who's already forcing themselves to leave because they can't handle this place, constructive criticism is fine but there's lines where it's criticism and just plain backlash

People are using one member's distress as an excuse to attack another member .

No! People are reacting to the tone of their accumulating messages.

 

[Quarky00]

I believe that sometimes her posts just come off as very condescending n cold

So are mine .

Wasn't yours as well? Now wait and take a deep breath . Of course you did it in the most charming cutest way possible . But "who hurt you" includes the notion that a member is dysfunctional or deserves help or pity . We are all condescending in our own way . Notice I did not criticize you , and I like that comment of yours .

my Alexa gives more "comforting" responses

We are not here to provide comfort to everything and everyone . That actually describes the Samaritans ...

pointing it out when it occurs

Then point it when it occurs kindly while acknowledging member's specific point , rather then turn it into a circus . For example :
" @autumnal although you are correct in raising those points , member is in distress and total mess , etc etc"
Folks here did not do so . If all of people's comments are taken combined , it looks like a huge angry tirade . So you are wrong : people did not just "point out" but actually added fuel to the fire . (no one in particular; as a whole)

when a member leaves this forum coz they feel attacked and belittled

And this is the place and time to reiterate that ? You just said you are going to point a behaviour when it occurs , but failed to do so , and instead reiterated past events .

A nice way to say, that made me feel like shit!

Then I guess member does not need Twelve Apostles accompanying them . They handled it well , resolved issue , and @autumnal explained . I'll add that they feel like shit anyway . So if issue resolved why rehash it ?

I also do not understand why ctb is holier than the pope and cannot be criticized even harshly .

"No Scrutiny Only Hugs" .

People keep going back to the person ( @autumnal ) rather than the issue at stake . Criticism can be placed and it can be harsh and not nice . Especially if member thought "small sips of SN are okay" . But again , this seems to be something personal . So this is not about member/thread but some resentment you have towards a member's behaviour which you deem inappropriate , because we need to be nice .

newsflash! If you want people to hear your message and heed the warnings, treating them like shit only makes them shut down NOT listen.

Actually if we all acted like @autumnal --- maybe we'd have less of these instances? I'm not placing a blame .

Imagine two scenarios : 50 members playing with SN each receives 20 supportive messages ; 50 members play with SN but are scolded -- how do you think the norm regarding SN will be shaped ? Think about it .

These are the basics of SN :

SN fatal even in small dosages?

YES. DO NOT TRY OR TASTE IT.

Sorry . Believing otherwise deserves a facepalm . I think such beliefs should be discouraged aggressively . And if someone feels like shit , sorry . And yeah other members should see that shitty feeling , be alarmed , and stop playing with SN . Dead people due to "mistakes" are far worse than living people feeling like shit . That's my opinion and everyone are welcomed to state theirs . But please do so while presenting a moral equivalent and analysis of the SN mistake-intake phenomenon (rather than criticize others).

I'm trying to discuss SN intake but I understand some refuse to do so , instead focusing on @autumnal and repeating the same points . This is indicative of mob anger . It's not about hate and I never thought people "hate" @autumnal . But folks take out long-term resentment here (ironic) , and openly state so . This was my point . Not the validity of the claims . I did not express opinions regarding @autumnal general/past behaviour .

 

[Lostandfound7]

Idk why u dragged me back into this, Uncle..??

If I read members commenting regarding ur posts being "condescending" and "cold," then I would prob say the same thing to u also..Although, possibly not in that manner cuz we have a "friendship" and I know ur heart.

As someone mentioned, there's a WAY in which to give advice, rebuke, scold, etc..I have already expressed my opinion, which everyone has, on how @autumnal responds to members.
After reading the same manner of belittling posts over a number of days, I said what I said, and I ain't takin it back..cuz I'm not afraid of ANYONE on here..

Now it really has gone to an about @autumnal thread, which was NOT AT ALL my intention..I even complimented him/her cuz I genuinely do love him/her..

If S/HE finds my remarks on Alexa were offensive to him/her, because UNTIL NOW, we still havent heard from @autumnal, only his/her "representatives," then I do apologize..Check my history. I NEVER make it a practice to make ANYONE feel like shit. Period.

Since u mentioned it, my "who hurt u?" comment was genuine n I swear if he/she would have pm'd me their #, I would have called n BLASTED THEM TF OUT! ALL DAY!!
Hurt people hurt people.

 

[InTheAirTonight]

I'm just here for the drama

 

[Neville1]

@Quarky00 was much quicker on the draw but I totally agree that any criticism on the thread should be limited to the particular posts made here.

No one should be generalizing or speculating about @autumnal's character, their childhood, past abuse that rhey may have suffered. That's inappropriate.

Their tone is highly anaylitical and some take that to be uncaring. But just as many feel that their contributions are helpful, protective of other members, may be scolding but not demeaning.

Please be respectful of @autumnal as you ironically ask them to be respectful of others.

Hurt people hurt

Ironically some people rebuking @autumnal may be acting in response to past hurts.

Edit:
@Lostandfound7 Nothing is aimed at you, your comment was just the most concise about the sentiment.

 

[Lostandfound7]

This is a JOKE..We still have yet to hear from @autumnal , who is prob sleeping, while everyone jumps in with the SAME mob mentality that was condemned..wtf??

No more representatives plz..I'd rather hear from @autumnal himself/herself regarding HIS/HER tone, intentions, character, disposition, and whateva tf else..

I don't do arguments via keyboard too well..I'm more of a face-to-face type of bitch...I have already texted too way much today about this same bullshit..

Quarky00 was much quicker on the draw but I totally agree that any criticism on the thread should be limited to the particular posts made here.

No one should be generalizing or speculating about @autumnal's character, their childhood, past abuse that rhey may have suffered. That's inappropriate.

His tone is highly anaylitical and some take that to be uncaring. But just as many feel that their contributions are helpful, protective of other members, may be scolding but not demeaning.

Please be respectful of @autumnal as you ironically ask them to be respectful of others.


Ironically some people striking out at @autumnal may be acting in response to of past hurts.

Ty Sir/Ma'am/Madame, but I can only speak for MYSELF and I was ABSOLUTELY NOT "striking out" at @autumnal . AGAIN, I DO NOT make it a practice of LASHING OUT at anyone, unless I'm provoked..

Furthermore, from what u have implied, the persons who have complained are persons that have been hurt and are responding to past hurts by "lashing out" at him/her??.OK..[insert thumbs up emoji here]
This has taken an ENTIRELY different turn, and cuz I feel my blood boiling, I will dismiss myself from this thread, unless I'm dragged in again (hopefully not).

Anyone having an issue, problem, grievance, challenge with ME or what I have said, feel free to pm me. Respect to @HorribleFeelings1 thread...especially @autumnal since that is who this whole damm charade is about..Deuces.

 

[Quarky00]

After reading the same manner of belittling posts over a number of days, I said what I said, and I ain't takin it back..cuz I'm not afraid of ANYONE on here..

Now it really has gone to an about @autumnal thread, which was NOT AT ALL my intention..

I did not criticize you I wrote I like your comment . "(no one in particular; as a whole)"

I know your post (who hurt u) was genuine and I think everyone knows that . I'm not representing autumnal , and I do not think we should wait for their input . I think we need to move on and in future try to avoid such "interventions" ... (I'm not saying a single person did that)

I'm not addressing you personally , @Lostandfound7 .

We do not need autumnal to comment . They clicked 'like' on posts that they , well , liked . People can look for those and figure it out themselves . This presumably means they share similar position . autumnal had previously explained their behaviour and (as I said) this was RESOLVED HERE . People (AS A WHOLE) have turned this into an intervention . "we love you but you need to change your act" .

 

[Jumper Geo]

Look I'm not with all this taking sips, if you are going to CTB you know you are when you hold that glass in your hand if the SI kicks in, you don't drink it, if you want to taste it, fine have a sip and spit it out and use mouth wash.

Psychologically you are either ready or your not, but enjoyed the drama, thanks OP, lol.

Cheers

Geo

 

[Living sucks]

I think we need to move on and in future try to avoid such "interventions" ...

i.e. no one should acknowledge or point out when a members behavior is belittling or demeaning?

This is a "trigger" for those who commented (here And in past posts) trying nicely and not so nicely to request that the delivery be adjusted .. not the message.

And this is the place and time to reiterate that ? You just said you are going to point a behaviour when it occurs , but failed to do so , and instead reiterated past events .

I did at that moment as well!

Imagine two scenarios : 50 members playing with SN each receives 20 supportive messages ; 50 members play with SN but are scolded -- how do you think the norm regarding SN will be shaped ? Think about it .

If it was constructive without belittling it would be better accepted, but it would make SS undesirable for many needing help.

it's ironic that in your post, you are trying to tell people how to communicate and how the messages criticize autumnals approach, but that is what all the apostles are trying to convey.

If i had entire threads derailed and locked because people were telling me my approach was not good for the environment, I'd take a step back and evaluate and contemplate how I am affecting so many people instead of digging my heals in and continuing such practices.

 

[Quarky00]

i.e. no one should acknowledge or point out when a members behavior is belittling or demeaning?

@Living sucks , my friend , the record is stuck ... And I say this because I love you . I wrote about the difference between 'pointing out' and full blown intervention while reiterating all past faults . I'm not saying it because of you , but that's how the situation rolled ... It was no longer just pointing out . As I will suggest maybe it's better to actually point out . Just point out .

This is a "trigger" for those who commented (here And in past posts) trying nicely and not so nicely to request that the delivery be adjusted .. not the message.

I know that . I've seen you trying your best to talk to autumnal in the kindest possible way . Lostandfound said the same . Watching comments all the time etc . I can't blame you for that , and I did not . Gather more patience and keep up your vigilance . Patient persistence wins the day . My only advice is to keep brief and cold/calm , considering member . But do as you please of course .

If it was constructive without belittling it would be better accepted

I agree , but notice we have reached the point of things being aggressive without belittling etc . This is a very fine delicate (problematic) balance . It's hard . "belittleing" is subjective , esp considering members are vulnerable as it is . Try to fine tune it (for example -- sarcasm) . Try to point out when it happens and inappropriate: quote and say "I don't like it" . People will follow

If i had entire threads derailed and locked because people were telling me my approach was not good for the environment, I'd take a step back and evaluate and contemplate how I am affecting so many people instead of digging my heals in and continuing such practices.

Considering member is "relentless" , according to the account given by other members on this thread , this is possible though unlikely . If member cannot be addressed personally (some have said they have tried) , and kind words in public do not help , then try talking to mods . If that does not help act together to change the tone wisely -- without hurting , pressuring , criticizing , attacking etc . Don't sugar coat it . Don't 'help' . Don't address emotions . You know member better (you say)... You all mentioned you love autumnal , if you have good intentions you will find the way . This "intervention/resentment" was propelled spontaneously and naturally , and there are better ways . That's all I said .