Discussion What would YOU say to...

[L0nely]

What would be your answer to people calling suicidal one's "selfish" because "they're hurting others and their pain is far less important that their family and friends' pain"?

 

[alexx_m]

I don't know if this answers it well, but I have some experience from both sides. I have been suicidal for years and if anyone said suicidal people are selfish for leaving I'd say that they are the selfish ones for emotionally manipualting a person into staying alive and utterly miserable for the sake of someone else. However, recently my partner of 9 years ctb-ed on their own, and even though I don't want to be a hypocrite, I can now sort of understand why people would think it's selfish...the amount of pain their death caused me is 100 times worse than all the pain I've felt throughout my life combined.

 

[FuneralCry]

The selfish thing is trying to force people to continue suffering when they wish to die, nobody is obligated to stay in this existence that was so harmfully imposed onto them in the first place. The suicide is "selfish" view doesn't make sense as none of us could have asked to be burdened with the ability to exist, I don't get why we should have to be punished all because other people were selfish enough to cruelly procreate.

 

[stxrdustprincex]

i think the most selfish thing someone can do is keep a person alive against their will. i have been suicidal for years and every single person who has found out has tried to convince me to stay because "it will irreversibly hurt the people i love." and that guilt tripping worked on me for a while, but i've come to the conclusion that they just care more about themselves than the person suffering, and that's incredibly selfish. i have also lost people to suicide and watched people lose their loved ones as well, and it did change my mind for a while, but i've seen firsthand how people learn to live with it and move on, and i want that to happen when i ctb too. personally, i think suicide is the last act of self care anyone can do.

 

[Some place nice]

I had a friend call my mother friend selfish for trying to cbt before. "You can't just give up bc you get sad or something is a little hard that's selfish." That is what she told me and it took everything not to curb stomp her. It's selfish to minimize someone elses pain and suffering and to make them feel like shit when they were in a bad place where they saw no way out.

 

[tiger b]

What would be your answer to people calling suicidal one's "selfish" because "they're hurting others and their pain is far less important that their family and friends' pain"?

Nothing.

I wouldn't dignify such shallow thinking with a response.

 

[todeswunsch]

If my pain leads me to CTB and their pain is greater then mine so they should CTB to.
If they dont feel like CTBing then they're ok :D

 

[Rhizomorph1]

I would respond with the fact that research in psychology points to shame as a factor that contributes to suicide. So all the real-world evidence that exists shows that making people feel guilty or shameful about suicidal ideation objectively pushes people further towards suicide.

Anyone who knows how to lead a truly helping relationship will avoid shame in all it's forms.

And this doesn't even account for the backwards ethics/logics of the statement concerning moral responsibility and self-determination, etc. (which I won't get into as others have discussed it already)

 

[R_N]

Breeders are more selfish.

 

[Aergia]

their pain is far less important that their family and friends' pain

Who decides that?

If I'm in a relationship that isn't working out for me, am I obliged to stay with my significant other because it would hurt them if we broke up? Does leaving make me selfish? The question is obviously how much weight individual autonomy has in a given situation, and I'd argue that in the case of suicide, individual autonomy typically comes first. There's the fact that no one opted into existence, for one, so why would every given person have a responsibility to see their existence through to a natural death? What could one have a greater right over than one's own life?

And as a follow-up question, it fair to coerce someone to stay alive and in pain— to attempt to control their person— because it would upset me if they acted within their rights to minimise their pain?

 

[achb]

I've had a friend tell me that. I didn't and still wouldn't really start a debate. It seems rather pointless. But personally I just don't care if it's selfish or not. It is not my responsibility if what I do with myself affects someone else emotionally imo. They are not my child. They are not my ward. I am not their keeper.

I am not forcing them to be there. I am not doing anything to them. I am upfront about my struggles to those close enough to care. They stay regardless.

 

[Orange Cat]

1. Why is the suffering of the family/friends more important than the suffering of the suicidal
person?

2. Who gets to decide which person is more important and whose suffering is worse?

3. What are the suicidal person's family/friends doing to help them? If they aren't helping them or
at least offering them emotional support, then they are the ones being selfish, and they shouldn't
get to complain or have a say in the matter.

 

[Freyja13]

What would be your answer to people calling suicidal one's "selfish" because "they're hurting others and their pain is far less important that their family and friends' pain"?

Lol I'd say fuck off xD

 

[kilowatt]

That just proves there's no understanding of the sucidial mind. I'd probably just stare in disgust.