What is your opinion of and/or understanding of Buddhism?

[EternalShore]

What the title says! I was just wondering what people on SS thought about Buddhism and its whole point of reaching enlightenment ending suffering, ultimately resulting in breaking the cycle of reincarnation~ Or maybe you have much more advanced knowledge than just what gets taught in schools! ^_^ I'd love to know! >w<

 

[Incandescent]

What the title says! I was just wondering what people on SS thought about Buddhism and its whole point of reaching enlightenment ending suffering, ultimately resulting in breaking the cycle of reincarnation~ Or maybe you have much more advanced knowledge than just what gets taught in schools! ^_^ I'd love to know! >w<

There are so many types of buddhism that it's hard to nail down any central beliefs. We could even possibly say that examining buddhism in terms of beliefs is a very western-biased perspective on buddhism.

I have a small, tiny amount of experience with Soto Zen buddhism and stayed a few weeks in a monastary. Here's a story:
In a monastary on a high mountain, a student asked a master, "how can I attain enlightenment?"
The master replied, "Peel potatoes," and handed him a sack.
The student labored for hours and on returning informed the master he was not yet enlightned. "Sweep the floors," the master commanded.
The student swept from night until early morning, but was not yet enlightened. The master gave him a new task.: "Come with me and we will fetch pails of water from the valley river."
They walked down then back up the mountain. The morning mist surrounded them and before long had dampened their robes. "This is enlightenment," the master said. "We walk through the mist and before long find we are wet, without knowing precisely when it has happened. And before long we will be dry again." They returned to the monastary and to their practice.


I believe in the four noble truths. LIfe is suffering and we can continue to let go of the suffering. But there isn't a literal life-long state of enlightenment, only a lifelong state of dedication to suffering and continuously letting go of that suffering, accepting that it will return, and that it will go as well.

 

[Cornbread4708]

Buddhism evolved from hindu religion which states - salvation is unobtainable , i think buddha has gone insane eating up those himalayan shrooms

 

[EternalShore]

There are so many types of buddhism that it's hard to nail down any central beliefs. We could even possibly say that examining buddhism in terms of beliefs is a very western-biased perspective on buddhism.

I have a small, tiny amount of experience with Soto Zen buddhism and stayed a few weeks in a monastary. Here's a story:
In a monastary on a high mountain, a student asked a master, "how can I attain enlightenment?"
The master replied, "Peel potatoes," and handed him a sack.
The student labored for hours and on returning informed the master he was not yet enlightned. "Sweep the floors," the master commanded.
The student swept from night until early morning, but was not yet enlightened. The master gave him a new task.: "Come with me and we will fetch pails of water from the valley river."
They walked down then back up the mountain. The morning mist surrounded them and before long had dampened their robes. "This is enlightenment," the master said. "We walk through the mist and before long find we are wet, without knowing precisely when it has happened. And before long we will be dry again." They returned to the monastary and to their practice.


I believe in the four noble truths. LIfe is suffering and we can continue to let go of the suffering. But there isn't a literal life-long state of enlightenment, only a lifelong state of dedication to suffering and continuously letting go of that suffering, accepting that it will return, and that it will go as well.

ahh, thank you very much for your response! ^_^ yeahhh, I know it's hard to nail down Buddhism's central beliefs! xD That's why I tried to phrase my question carefully to include as many schools as I could~ hehe~ Granted, I ended up asking it in a very Hosso-like way ("if just one thought remains unborn, one will immediately attain buddhahood") instead, sooo... >_<

Thank you for the story! :) Too bad after you realize that all koan all fundamentally mean that nothingness is truth and the mind is nothingness, they just get boring other than trying to figure out where they get that theme into it~ Or maybe that's just my Western bias popping up again! xD

ahh, thank you very much for the last part! :) I thought most Buddhist schools (excluding Hinayana/Theravada schools) were about letting go of suffering by letting go of the material world~ Not just accepting suffering as you describe! Very interesting! ^_^ Is that just Soto, just Zen, or more of Mahayana too?

 

[Incandescent]

ahh, thank you very much for your response! ^_^ yeahhh, I know it's hard to nail down Buddhism's central beliefs! xD That's why I tried to phrase my question carefully to include as many schools as I could~ hehe~ Granted, I ended up asking it in a very Hosso-like way ("if just one thought remains unborn, one will immediately attain buddhahood") instead, sooo... >_<

Thank you for the story! :) Too bad after you realize that all koan all fundamentally mean that nothingness is truth and the mind is nothingness, they just get boring other than trying to figure out where they get that theme into it~ Or maybe that's just my Western bias popping up again! xD

ahh, thank you very much for the last part! :) I thought most Buddhist schools (excluding Hinayana/Theravada schools) were about letting go of suffering by letting go of the material world~ Not just accepting suffering as you describe! Very interesting! ^_^ Is that just Soto, just Zen, or more of Mahayana too?

I'm not sure i would say zen is about accepting suffering. I think Zen maybe starts from the idea that the desire to be free from suffering is in istelf a desire (dukkha), which perpetuates suffering. From a zen perspective, enlightenment is therefore necessarily spontaneous and unintentional. The Rinzai school of Zen tries to break through the intentional and logical mind through koans. "what is the sound of one hand clapping" and what not. It's my understanding that these koans have no fundamental meaning and are meant to cause you to stop searching for one, and to simply respond spontaneously. Soto zen on the other hand emphasizes Zazen, ie seated meditiation. In a Soto Zen monastary like the one I stayed in, every day is almost choreographed like a dance. There are specific ways to sit, to get up, to clean, cook, etc. But they never really at any point gave me any indication as to what to do with my mind, even in meditation. I believe the idea is to simply immerse yourself in the routine dance of monastic life and focus on the present in front of you.
Zen is just peeling potatoes. Sometimes peeling potatoes is divine, but to desire peeling potatoes to be divine traps you within the cycle of suffering. So zen is the rigorous practice of mundane activity, engaging the present and the task at hand.

 

[CoffeeCrow]

I believe the Pali Canon needs to be studied to get a deeper comprehension of the Four Noble Truths, but I believe Theravada won't get you anywhere, only Vajrayana and Tantric practice can use the mind to transform emotions into different emotions through intense practice.

 

[lwlaiet8887]

I don't know enough about it, but in terms of its understanding of reality and the inherit suffering it brings it seems like the most intelligent religion. I don't agree with any religion that idolizes suffering as something virtuous as it's not.

 

[Pluto]

I don't have a Buddhist background per se, but there are schools within all the major religions (Christian mysticism, Jewish Kabbalah, Islamic Sufism, Advaita Vedanta Hinduism, Zen Buddhism and New Age Nonduality) that all point towards the possibility of a radical shift in identity. Abrahamic terminology might describe the resulting state as a union with God, Buddhism would say one's self vanishes into nothingness, while Advaita says that a false identity of the suffering human form is revealed as the magnificent infinite Self known as Brahman or the Absolute.

All are describing exactly the same thing; life is some sort of game whereby we are placed into an illusory existence, then we are driven by suffering to want to come out of it, and upon reaching 'enlightenment' we realise that none of it was ever real to begin with; hence the 'laughing Buddha'. This state not a belief, nor is it really a religious or spiritual thing, though is easily misinterpreted as one.

If this topic is of interest, it is worth noting that there are many different approaches and everyone is different. I think that a basic understanding of the subject matter is a good start, then it is a matter of seeking out the right techniques and good quality guidance to realise for yourself what all the masters have been saying. There are many potential pitfalls on the path, but we do live in an age where there is so much readily-available material on this topic that there is a very real possibility of enlightenment becoming a mainstream phenomenon within the next few decades.

 

[EternalShore]

I don't have a Buddhist background per se, but there are schools within all the major religions (Christian mysticism, Jewish Kabbalah, Islamic Sufism, Advaita Vedanta Hinduism, Zen Buddhism and New Age Nonduality) that all point towards the possibility of a radical shift in identity. Abrahamic terminology might describe the resulting state as a union with God, Buddhism would say one's self vanishes into nothingness, while Advaita says that a false identity of the suffering human form is revealed as the magnificent infinite Self known as Brahman or the Absolute.

All are describing exactly the same thing; life is some sort of game whereby we are placed into an illusory existence, then we are driven by suffering to want to come out of it, and upon reaching 'enlightenment' we realise that none of it was ever real to begin with; hence the 'laughing Buddha'. This state not a belief, nor is it really a religious or spiritual thing, though is easily misinterpreted as one.

If this topic is of interest, it is worth noting that there are many different approaches and everyone is different. I think that a basic understanding of the subject matter is a good start, then it is a matter of seeking out the right techniques and good quality guidance to realise for yourself what all the masters have been saying. There are many potential pitfalls on the path, but we do live in an age where there is so much readily-available material on this topic that there is a very real possibility of enlightenment becoming a mainstream phenomenon within the next few decades.

oooo. Very interesting! ^_^ You should make like a YouTube series on that! xD I'd totally follow and watch it! ^_^ Can you like tell me more~ How can I best practice and such? :3

 

[Pluto]

oooo. Very interesting! ^_^ You should make like a YouTube series on that! xD I'd totally follow and watch it! ^_^ Can you like tell me more~ How can I best practice and such? :3

Sure! I don't do anything about this on YouTube because there are other people in a far more advanced state than I, so I prefer to direct others towards them.

Brief understanding
The goal is to remove obstructions to realising your true nature, which is already here and now. You are currently wearing a costume called the body, and the thoughts of the mind are like tricksters, aiming to get you to identify with it - and they do a very good job. A sense of self is created - an individual person as the protagonist of a life story, battling challenges and working towards improvement. This self is 100% false.

The challenge is that the truth is something indescribable, though true nature can be pointed to through negation. For example, you are not male or female, not young or old, not large or small. When absolutely everything is negated, what remains is the great void (Śūnyatā in Buddhist terminology). It is not comprehensible to the human mind. So here are a few approaches to making thsi practical.

Psychedelics
A good experience with psychedelics can include elements like 'ego death', feelings of oneness with everything, profound love and so on. This is a legitimate glimpse of reality. It is not a case of a human hallucinating some wacky state, but just the opposite. It is reality glimpsing itself, and the normal human-identified state is itself a hallucinogenic state.

The benefit of this is that it can potentially force an experience that validates the basic principle of true nature being oneness, infinity, void of the individual self and all that. The downside is that it is only a passing experience, and of course there can be dangers and risks in using drugs without guidance from an expert.

Religions
The pros and cons of a good religious group, such as a Buddhist community, are the opposite of psychedelics. This time, there is no quick fix, but instead there is usually a narrative about very slowly working towards shedding layers, becoming more peaceful, cultivating noble qualities and preparing for a great future event called enlightenment.

The benefit is that the meditations, the teachings, the development of humility and the association with others on a similar path is all a positive development. The disadvantage is that this gives rise to a modified ego-self which is now a person on a spiritual path hoping for some great liberation in this lifetime or the next. But alas, going back to the basics, this is a trap; this individual person is 100% false all along.

Direct methods
So that leads us to the happy medium. There are techniques and methods which are direct, practical and can reveal the truth in your direct experience.

Self-inquiry: This is the #1 practical technique. It involves asking the question 'Who am I right now?' but not accepting any thought answer. It turns attention to your own conscious presence in the immediate experience. More about this in a moment.

Meditation: Because thought activity is all centred around a false self, efforts to silence the mind are valuable. In very deep states of meditation, insights into your true nature will come.

Time with a teacher: There is said to be a kind of transmission, similar to how one lit candle can go on to light other candles. A teacher may also be able to point out any attachments or errors, or may spontaneously utter words that initiate a seismic shift in your consciousness.

Retreats: The idea here is a group setting with extended periods of meditation. The benefit is that it can help push for deeper states of consciousness, but it is also important that there be guidance as the ego starts to panic as its death nears.

Trauma work: Boring psychological work, therapies and processing repressed emotions from the past is very relevant to this process, before or after awakening.

Finally, I wanted to share a relevant video featuring a teacher I have been following very closely. His background is Buddhist and he produces content on YouTube daily on his own channel.

VIDEO LINK

 

[SexyIncél]

I don't know much about buddhism. I only know things influenced by it

I think healthygamer.gg has a nice guide to (individual) meditation. Provides an overview to many different & often opposite kinds. With links to biology. He says many dismiss meditation because they found an expert who only knew one kind — and that one kind happened to be wrong for them, at that moment

Meditation's a form of mind-hacking, and we can create our own. So I use a simple group form: conversations

I agree with buddhist teachers who say moral practices are vital. If we're gonna merge with each other (nonduality). Dunno anything about buddhist morality, but we can use other traditions as we see fit

I know this is taoism, not buddhism... But the conversation between Zhuangzi and Huizi about fish was used in a fun argument that play/freedom is a principle at the basis of all physical reality

 

[EternalShore]

Sure! I don't do anything about this on YouTube because there are other people in a far more advanced state than I, so I prefer to direct others towards them.

Brief understanding
The goal is to remove obstructions to realising your true nature, which is already here and now. You are currently wearing a costume called the body, and the thoughts of the mind are like tricksters, aiming to get you to identify with it - and they do a very good job. A sense of self is created - an individual person as the protagonist of a life story, battling challenges and working towards improvement. This self is 100% false.

The challenge is that the truth is something indescribable, though true nature can be pointed to through negation. For example, you are not male or female, not young or old, not large or small. When absolutely everything is negated, what remains is the great void (Śūnyatā in Buddhist terminology). It is not comprehensible to the human mind. So here are a few approaches to making thsi practical.

Psychedelics
A good experience with psychedelics can include elements like 'ego death', feelings of oneness with everything, profound love and so on. This is a legitimate glimpse of reality. It is not a case of a human hallucinating some wacky state, but just the opposite. It is reality glimpsing itself, and the normal human-identified state is itself a hallucinogenic state.

The benefit of this is that it can potentially force an experience that validates the basic principle of true nature being oneness, infinity, void of the individual self and all that. The downside is that it is only a passing experience, and of course there can be dangers and risks in using drugs without guidance from an expert.

Religions
The pros and cons of a good religious group, such as a Buddhist community, are the opposite of psychedelics. This time, there is no quick fix, but instead there is usually a narrative about very slowly working towards shedding layers, becoming more peaceful, cultivating noble qualities and preparing for a great future event called enlightenment.

The benefit is that the meditations, the teachings, the development of humility and the association with others on a similar path is all a positive development. The disadvantage is that this gives rise to a modified ego-self which is now a person on a spiritual path hoping for some great liberation in this lifetime or the next. But alas, going back to the basics, this is a trap; this individual person is 100% false all along.

Direct methods
So that leads us to the happy medium. There are techniques and methods which are direct, practical and can reveal the truth in your direct experience.

Self-inquiry: This is the #1 practical technique. It involves asking the question 'Who am I right now?' but not accepting any thought answer. It turns attention to your own conscious presence in the immediate experience. More about this in a moment.

Meditation: Because thought activity is all centred around a false self, efforts to silence the mind are valuable. In very deep states of meditation, insights into your true nature will come.

Time with a teacher: There is said to be a kind of transmission, similar to how one lit candle can go on to light other candles. A teacher may also be able to point out any attachments or errors, or may spontaneously utter words that initiate a seismic shift in your consciousness.

Retreats: The idea here is a group setting with extended periods of meditation. The benefit is that it can help push for deeper states of consciousness, but it is also important that there be guidance as the ego starts to panic as its death nears.

Trauma work: Boring psychological work, therapies and processing repressed emotions from the past is very relevant to this process, before or after awakening.

Finally, I wanted to share a relevant video featuring a teacher I have been following very closely. His background is Buddhist and he produces content on YouTube daily on his own channel.

VIDEO LINK

Thank you very much for the detailed response! ^_^ It must've taken a lot to write! xD I am very grateful! )

I agree with buddhist teachers who say moral practices are vital. If we're gonna merge with each other (nonduality). Dunno anything about buddhist morality, but we can use other traditions as we see fit

I know this is taoism, not buddhism... But the conversation between Zhuangzi and Huizi about fish was used in a fun argument that play/freedom is a principle at the basis of all physical reality

The problem with that tho is that those Buddhist teachers are wrong! >_< The Precepts are pretty much useless as they ultimately have nothing to do with enlightenment but only your outer coat of behavior! As explained by Mahaprajnaparamita, "all dharmas [morals] are subject to causes and conditions and lack self-nature; so all good dharmas are born of evil. And since all good dharmas are born of evil, how can we possibly be attached to them? Evil can be the cause of good, so why should we hate it?" The Precepts may have been important to establish that Buddhists do have a sense of morality to the populace when early Buddhist monks were solely relying on almsgiving from commoners~ Other than that, they lack much use and hence why they're usually only emphasized by the Theravada and Hinayana schools which have stayed much more in line with early Buddhist tradition than the other schools~
lol. Nice argument! xD

 

[SexyIncél]

The problem with that tho is that those Buddhist teachers are wrong! >_< The Precepts are pretty much useless as they ultimately have nothing to do with enlightenment but only your outer coat of behavior! As explained by Mahaprajnaparamita, "all dharmas [morals] are subject to causes and conditions and lack self-nature; so all good dharmas are born of evil. And since all good dharmas are born of evil, how can we possibly be attached to them? Evil can be the cause of good, so why should we hate it?" The Precepts may have been important to establish that Buddhists do have a sense of morality to the populace when early Buddhist monks were solely relying on almsgiving from commoners~ Other than that, they lack much use and hence why they're usually only emphasized by the Theravada and Hinayana schools which have stayed much more in line with early Buddhist tradition than the other schools~

Yeah, I was reading on the anthropology of buddhism [pdf] last night. Apparently there may be class tensions going on!

Many of them were attracted to Theravada Buddhism but were keen to reform it. With one or two exceptions (such as Alexandra David-Neel) who were drawn precisely by its 'magic and mystery', they tended to dismiss the Mahayana Buddhism of Nepal and Tibet as superstition, idolatry, wizardry, and depravity.

...

The Role of Monasticism. Theravada Buddhism certainly entailed religious individualism but it was never egalitarian. Nor did it impose its individualism on 'life in the world', that is, on the social arrangements of the laity. Spiritual hierarchy was built into it from the beginning. At the very least this consists of two stages, monk and lay, but in practice other levels of attainment are recognized too. Thus, there is spiritual equality of opportunity, but not of result. It is not a question of sheep and goats, but of a large number of gradations, in short of hierarchy.

Oooh, wizardry & depravity

The teacher I mentioned is within the Vajrayana tradition, which (based on Mahayana tradition) values attaining Buddhahood to benefit all sentient beings. So it makes sense for a Vajrayana teacher to embrace morality. Especially when teaching westerners who adopt buddhist practices to help solve their worldly problems

Also, interesting for me personally — Vajrayana offers the possibility of achieving enlightenment in a single lifetime — even some years or less. Which presumably implies a focus on effectiveness

 

[SexyIncél]

Updates

Hmm, I do like "deity yoga". Where you can even imagine yourself as buddha or other enlightened being. WWYDAB — What Would You Do As Buddha? BTW I also liked wondering what a smarter person would do, at least for a while. Hell, you could do this with any role

Also, we can imagine the cycles of rebirth like Groundhog Day movies — within a single biological lifetime. Everytime you realize something fundamentally life-altering, you effectively die & become a new person, on & on. Maybe even change your name. Until you liberate yourself from suffering, or become a real badass, or something. Then you can have the final death

Because I'm not gonna believe some claims about afterlife, without sufficient evidence. Getting 'enlightened' probably doesn't require a blatantly irrational belief like that

btw if you have a safe VPN, here's a fun groundhog day type movie

 

[DarkRange55]

I went to a private christian school, a private Buddhist school and a private Islamic school growing up. I was big into Zen Buddhism for years and I've always been more drawn to the eastern philosophies. But now:

 

[DarkRange55]

Sure! I don't do anything about this on YouTube because there are other people in a far more advanced state than I, so I prefer to direct others towards them.

Brief understanding
The goal is to remove obstructions to realising your true nature, which is already here and now. You are currently wearing a costume called the body, and the thoughts of the mind are like tricksters, aiming to get you to identify with it - and they do a very good job. A sense of self is created - an individual person as the protagonist of a life story, battling challenges and working towards improvement. This self is 100% false.

The challenge is that the truth is something indescribable, though true nature can be pointed to through negation. For example, you are not male or female, not young or old, not large or small. When absolutely everything is negated, what remains is the great void (Śūnyatā in Buddhist terminology). It is not comprehensible to the human mind. So here are a few approaches to making thsi practical.

Psychedelics
A good experience with psychedelics can include elements like 'ego death', feelings of oneness with everything, profound love and so on. This is a legitimate glimpse of reality. It is not a case of a human hallucinating some wacky state, but just the opposite. It is reality glimpsing itself, and the normal human-identified state is itself a hallucinogenic state.

The benefit of this is that it can potentially force an experience that validates the basic principle of true nature being oneness, infinity, void of the individual self and all that. The downside is that it is only a passing experience, and of course there can be dangers and risks in using drugs without guidance from an expert.

Religions
The pros and cons of a good religious group, such as a Buddhist community, are the opposite of psychedelics. This time, there is no quick fix, but instead there is usually a narrative about very slowly working towards shedding layers, becoming more peaceful, cultivating noble qualities and preparing for a great future event called enlightenment.

The benefit is that the meditations, the teachings, the development of humility and the association with others on a similar path is all a positive development. The disadvantage is that this gives rise to a modified ego-self which is now a person on a spiritual path hoping for some great liberation in this lifetime or the next. But alas, going back to the basics, this is a trap; this individual person is 100% false all along.

Direct methods
So that leads us to the happy medium. There are techniques and methods which are direct, practical and can reveal the truth in your direct experience.

Self-inquiry: This is the #1 practical technique. It involves asking the question 'Who am I right now?' but not accepting any thought answer. It turns attention to your own conscious presence in the immediate experience. More about this in a moment.

Meditation: Because thought activity is all centred around a false self, efforts to silence the mind are valuable. In very deep states of meditation, insights into your true nature will come.

Time with a teacher: There is said to be a kind of transmission, similar to how one lit candle can go on to light other candles. A teacher may also be able to point out any attachments or errors, or may spontaneously utter words that initiate a seismic shift in your consciousness.

Retreats: The idea here is a group setting with extended periods of meditation. The benefit is that it can help push for deeper states of consciousness, but it is also important that there be guidance as the ego starts to panic as its death nears.

Trauma work: Boring psychological work, therapies and processing repressed emotions from the past is very relevant to this process, before or after awakening.

Finally, I wanted to share a relevant video featuring a teacher I have been following very closely. His background is Buddhist and he produces content on YouTube daily on his own channel.

VIDEO LINK

I've had some profound experiences and epiphanies on trips but I think that any conclusion you reach on psychedelics you can reach with a sober mind. Deep contemplation and taking action and that some people want to think it's coming from somewhere else - it's like they want a guide to show them the way, but all that comes from within.
Psychedelic - Attribute that to a spiritual experience, truly is an experience some people get a tangible high from going to church.

Some people can have a psychedelic experience from deep meditation.

 

[Pluto]

I've had some profound experiences and epiphanies on trips but I think that any conclusion you reach on psychedelics you can reach with a sober mind. Deep contemplation and taking action and that some people want to think it's coming from somewhere else - it's like they want a guide to show them the way, but all that comes from within.
Psychedelic - Attribute that to a spiritual experience, truly is an experience some people get a tangible high from going to church.

Some people can have a psychedelic experience from deep meditation.

I used to be a huge fan of TJ Kirk many years ago. His heavy criticisms of fundamentalist Christianity in particular hit a magic mix of entertaining, intellectually stimulating and therapeutic. (My mother was a dysfunctional religious freak who left ruins in her wake.)

I don't identify as a Buddhist, though find myself bringing it up since the message is somewhat digestible to a receptive Western audience. The argument that I tried to advance in a previous post entitled Why Religion Fails was that the common underlying claim being offered by all religions is a solution for human suffering. However, I listed some of the factors that can 'go wrong' in the process.

In light of what we are talking about, I could add 'psychedelic experience' to the list of traps in that thread. Even a profound insight - via psychedelics, deep meditation, kundalini, etc. - that seems to experientially validate ideas about universal oneness or perfect love is merely a passing experience. It has value if it motivates a more focused spiritual search, but is not in any way equated to awakening.

According to those who have attained it, the goal is a dramatic, undeniable, radical, permanent shift in identity, and in deeper stages of realisation, a dissolution of even the subtler layers of identity that remain after the initial shift.

It's worth bringing up Sam Harris. I haven't followed his work, but he seems to espouse a similar proselytising of atheism to TJ Kirk yet appears to have achieved a significant spiritual awakening and released meditations aiming to help others follow suit.

 

[DarkRange55]

I used to be a huge fan of TJ Kirk many years ago. His heavy criticisms of fundamentalist Christianity in particular hit a magic mix of entertaining, intellectually stimulating and therapeutic. (My mother was a dysfunctional religious freak who left ruins in her wake.)

I don't identify as a Buddhist, though find myself bringing it up since the message is somewhat digestible to a receptive Western audience. The argument that I tried to advance in a previous post entitled Why Religion Fails was that the common underlying claim being offered by all religions is a solution for human suffering. However, I listed some of the factors that can 'go wrong' in the process.

In light of what we are talking about, I could add 'psychedelic experience' to the list of traps in that thread. Even a profound insight - via psychedelics, deep meditation, kundalini, etc. - that seems to experientially validate ideas about universal oneness or perfect love is merely a passing experience. It has value if it motivates a more focused spiritual search, but is not in any way equated to awakening.

According to those who have attained it, the goal is a dramatic, undeniable, radical, permanent shift in identity, and in deeper stages of realisation, a dissolution of even the subtler layers of identity that remain after the initial shift.

It's worth bringing up Sam Harris. I haven't followed his work, but he seems to espouse a similar proselytising of atheism to TJ Kirk yet appears to have achieved a significant spiritual awakening and released meditations aiming to help others follow suit.

I think meditation is great, I just don't believe you will break reincarnation because I don't believe in the soul. I think if someone gets a sense of comfort or finds value in a religion or philosophy then I'm all for it.
However, if someone asked me, name three peaceful religions you have no issues with: I would say I honestly don't think I have no issues wjth any religions. There are some peaceful ones like shintoism and stuff. However, they all support illogical thinking and acceptance of irrational beliefs which in my opinion leads to negative consequences and they're still holding humanity back from the real answers. I also don't like the Buddhism seems to depreciate the human of achievement.
I find myself much more drawn to something like stoicism. I think that subs into that slot of religion for me. But if you find peace in Buddhism, then go for it. I was simply responsing to the poat of whats your opinion it. I think it's also worth noting that there are a lot of violent mutilations that have been done in the name of Buddhism. But like anything, humans will use any power structure…

 

[Pluto]

I find myself much more drawn to something like stoicism.

I have an automatic respect for anyone who 1) genuinely strives for truth and 2) thinks for themselves, so no disagreement there.

The top Western teachers only use the essence of religion as a launching pad for a direct pursuit of truth. Adyashanti, for example, has a Zen background, yet he has commented that any sort of belief is a hindrance to liberation. The tricky bit is that beliefs, even the belief that suffering can be ended or the cycle of rebirth can be stopped, are often what initiate this search in the first place. Religion in this sense serves a purpose for a time, yet needs to be completely discarded as soon as possible in order to keep progressing.

I would add a comment I've made before, that even ancient Greek philosophies like Skepticism will lead to a more advanced state than any particular belief structure. Admitting that we know absolutely nothing is, upon inspection, a painfully obvious truth. All we have are thoughts, ideas and noise which is all completely substanceless.

I also like to quote Nagarjuna, who might go as far as denouncing Buddhism despite being a historical Buddhist scholar. This boils down to the same thing - holding any sort of position, or purporting to 'know' anything, is antithetical to the approach needed to experience a pure state of consciousness.

 

[DarkRange55]

I have an automatic respect for anyone who 1) genuinely strives for truth and 2) thinks for themselves, so no disagreement there.

The top Western teachers only use the essence of religion as a launching pad for a direct pursuit of truth. Adyashanti, for example, has a Zen background, yet he has commented that any sort of belief is a hindrance to liberation. The tricky bit is that beliefs, even the belief that suffering can be ended or the cycle of rebirth can be stopped, are often what initiate this search in the first place. Religion in this sense serves a purpose for a time, yet needs to be completely discarded as soon as possible in order to keep progressing.

I would add a comment I've made before, that even ancient Greek philosophies like Skepticism will lead to a more advanced state than any particular belief structure. Admitting that we know absolutely nothing is, upon inspection, a painfully obvious truth. All we have are thoughts, ideas and noise which is all completely substanceless.

I also like to quote Nagarjuna, who might go as far as denouncing Buddhism despite being a historical Buddhist scholar. This boils down to the same thing - holding any sort of position, or purporting to 'know' anything, is antithetical to the approach needed to experience a pure state of consciousness.

I've heard the purpose of religious is to provide a path for spirituality

 

[DarkRange55]

I used to be a huge fan of TJ Kirk many years ago. His heavy criticisms of fundamentalist Christianity in particular hit a magic mix of entertaining, intellectually stimulating and therapeutic. (My mother was a dysfunctional religious freak who left ruins in her wake.)

I don't identify as a Buddhist, though find myself bringing it up since the message is somewhat digestible to a receptive Western audience. The argument that I tried to advance in a previous post entitled Why Religion Fails was that the common underlying claim being offered by all religions is a solution for human suffering. However, I listed some of the factors that can 'go wrong' in the process.

In light of what we are talking about, I could add 'psychedelic experience' to the list of traps in that thread. Even a profound insight - via psychedelics, deep meditation, kundalini, etc. - that seems to experientially validate ideas about universal oneness or perfect love is merely a passing experience. It has value if it motivates a more focused spiritual search, but is not in any way equated to awakening.

According to those who have attained it, the goal is a dramatic, undeniable, radical, permanent shift in identity, and in deeper stages of realisation, a dissolution of even the subtler layers of identity that remain after the initial shift.

It's worth bringing up Sam Harris. I haven't followed his work, but he seems to espouse a similar proselytising of atheism to TJ Kirk yet appears to have achieved a significant spiritual awakening and released meditations aiming to help others follow suit.

Yeah, it's about mindset. I find most modern Christian traditions ignore it though. I kinda like Christian mysticism in that regard. Spark of god within each person. Essentially it's meditation.

 

[Pluto]

Yeah, it's about mindset. I find most modern Christian traditions ignore it though. I kinda like Christian mysticism in that regard. Spark of god within each person. Essentially it's meditation.

Yes, it's sad in some ways to see how the original essence of Christianity evolved into a force that manipulates and holds people back from finding the true peace and divinity that Jesus was preaching about. Yet the great mystics like St. John of the Cross showed that the Christian framework, used properly, will still lead to salvation.

 

[Lifeaffirmingchoice]

I believe the Pali Canon needs to be studied to get a deeper comprehension of the Four Noble Truths, but I believe Theravada won't get you anywhere, only Vajrayana and Tantric practice can use the mind to transform emotions into different emotions through intense practice.

This is an old thread, but do you have any resources for this - "transform emotions into different emotions through intense practice?"

 

[EternalShore]

This is an old thread, but do you have any resources for this - "transform emotions into different emotions through intense practice?"

Sorry, but I think he deleted his account~ :( That's his 2nd-to-last post after all! >_<
What I think he's referring to is called "Dzogchen trek-chöd". It's a form of meditation that claims its aims are to transform dreary emotions into positive ones like joy~ :) Tantric Buddhism, in more theological terms, tends to focus more on the body than other schools, although its goal (which this meditation is meant to help achieve) is still achieving clarity and nothingness (what it describes as rigpa and nyamshag). You can find more about by searching up about it online~ Hope this helps! ^_^

 

[Lifeaffirmingchoice]

Sorry, but I think he deleted his account~ :( That's his 2nd-to-last post after all! >_<
What I think he's referring to is called "Dzogchen trek-chöd". It's a form of meditation that claims its aims are to transform dreary emotions into positive ones like joy~ :) Tantric Buddhism, in more theological terms, tends to focus more on the body than other schools, although its ultimate goal is still achieving clarity and nothingness (what it describes as rigpa and nyamshag). You can find more about by searching up about it online~ Hope this helps! ^_^

I'm not able to view his posts, I wonder if it's because my account is relatively new. Anyway, thank you so much for answering my question! I really appreciate it

 

[Pluto]

If anyone is interested, I made a post about Zen Buddhism and enlightenment recently that took many hours of research to complete. Managed to get one 'like' for my efforts.

Link

 

[1MiserableGuy]

Emulating a rock is not enlightenment.

 

[leavingthesoultrap]

It's the only religion I can somewhat relate to.
I like it's explanation of the life problematic: Life is suffering, to want is to suffer.
The problematic part for me is the karma belief and attempt to minimise the suffering.
If you remained passive and tried to minimise the suffering at all costs people would walk all over you and your own suffering would greatly increase.
Overall I agree with the core beliefs however to actually practice them is difficult.
I try to minimise the suffering for people who are able to recognise my effort.
But I won't be nice to assholes.

 

[PanaxMan]

Life is suffering and we humans live thru it to achieve nirvana.

 

[WhenTheyCry]

BDSM stands for Buddhism.