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checkouttime

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Jul 15, 2020
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@checkouttime, your first sentence made me laugh out loud!

Really, though, this is just Mexican culture. When I lived in the US, Mexicans were the same. If you hire them to do a job, they'll schedule it and not show up. They may reschedule several times and not show up. And then one day out of nowhere, they show up and act like everything is fine. "Mañana" is a thing. My landlord is like this, too, and the condo office manager. They're all super nice, they just don't do what they say they're going to do, only what will make you happy to hear. My landlord, a woman, got pissed at me for getting angry and started going telenovela on me, I actually had to soothe her, and I'm her customer! She didn't keep her word, I expected her to, I got very direct about it, and therefore she lost face. I was supposed to be "nice," and in her mind, she was being nice! It's a highly manipulative culture. 'No" is like the law, it's something to try to get around or talk someone out of. It's some crazy-making shit. Like, the whole staff knows I won't answer the door unless I'm expecting them, I explained my reasons and was told very seriously, "Yes, you're right, you have reason," but they'll still ring the doorbell several times, then finally send me an email. I have to not cave in or they won't respect me -- even though it's disrespectful for them to keep doing what they agree to not do! :pfff:

But the maintenance guy, when he's actually here, is so nice and listens patiently when I speak and I get no creepy or disrespectful vibes off of him at all. When he's on the job, he's great. But if he says he'll be back the next day...no.

There's an old joke, "How do you know a Mexican is lying? Their lips are moving." Not all Mexicans are like that, but it's very, very strong in the culture. Lying isn't treated the same as it is in Western wypipo culture, it's not so offensive, and someone keeping their word is not so expected. I read something that makes sense to me in my experience, that this stuff I'm talking about is part of the machismo culture -- people keep dishing shit out, whether lying, not keeping appointments, etc., and the one who loses their shit, loses. The one who calls it out, instead of pretending everything is okay, is in bad form, and loses. It's about winning, and they will NOT tell you the rules, that's the rule. Here's a driving rule: if you want to merge into traffic, just push your way in, they'll act like they're not going to let you, but it's a game of chicken to see how close the vehicles can come without actually touching.

You sound like an awesome worker, you know your shit and you're ethical. MUCH RESPECT! If it were my ceiling, I'd probably ask you to come fix it! Here, though, it's more of a story, the story of the landlord's emotions about the fact there is a leak, and everyone shifting responsibility. She's totally chill now that someone has said "mañana," and when there is structural damage, there will be a new story, and more shifting, and a new mañana, and when the whole building collapses, it will be a new story. This is Mexico. Así es.


the problem you describe is a worldwide problem with landlords, it certainly happens here aswell.not all of them but a high amount, don't like forking out money for repairs. they don't mind collecting rent though!!! same for what you describe of workmen. alot will lie about stuff, tell you they will come and not turn up. i could never do that, if i say i will do something i turn up and do it, and properly. thats what gets you a good reputation and more work. all the stuff what you mention i why tradesmen get a bad reputation. the most annoying part, is these people still find work. then every workmen gets tarnished with the same brush. its annoying!!!! i think alot of people go to work and don't want to be there.

thing i never understand when landlords don't get things fixed is, it will just get worse. it might start small and end up big, costing even more to fix. but if i was asked to look it would be my job to make you realise that. honestly many landlords just dont like paying to get things fixed,.then when it comes to fix it, they want it done for nothing!!!!

lol i think the whole push into traffic thing happens everywhere. its because people aren't considerate to others. i mean really, would letting one car in front of you effect you getting somewhere quicker? not really!! but people just get in the car and want to get somewhere and couldn't care less about others. i let poeple pull out or whatever all the time when driving.not everyone but i do it alot. but when you drive i don't think many people are aware of exactly whats going on. it like they are in auto pilot to get from on place to another!!!

i think alot of it is down to peoples manners and attitude. i don't think i am an angel, i know in other ways i am not. but saying please, thank you. opening doors for people, being on time, keeping good on things you say, i don't even think about it, i just do it. i think also the thing you describe with the lies, sometimes people think a 'small lie', like saying you will turn up and not. people think it is insignificant, but its not to the effected person. its annoying, maybe an inconveinience etc to that person, and not fair on them!
 
GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
the problem you describe is a worldwide problem with landlords, it certainly happens here aswell.not all of them but a high amount, don't like forking out money for repairs. they don't mind collecting rent though!!! same for what you describe of workmen. alot will lie about stuff, tell you they will come and not turn up. i could never do that, if i say i will do something i turn up and do it, and properly. thats what gets you a good reputation and more work. all the stuff what you mention i why tradesmen get a bad reputation. the most annoying part, is these people still find work. then every workmen gets tarnished with the same brush. its annoying!!!! i think alot of people go to work and don't want to be there.

thing i never understand when landlords don't get things fixed is, it will just get worse. it might start small and end up big, costing even more to fix. but if i was asked to look it would be my job to make you realise that. honestly many landlords just dont like paying to get things fixed,.then when it comes to fix it, they want it done for nothing!!!!

lol i think the whole push into traffic thing happens everywhere. its because people aren't considerate to others. i mean really, would letting one car in front of you effect you getting somewhere quicker? not really!! but people just get in the car and want to get somewhere and couldn't care less about others. i let poeple pull out or whatever all the time when driving.not everyone but i do it alot. but when you drive i don't think many people are aware of exactly whats going on. it like they are in auto pilot to get from on place to another!!!

i think alot of it is down to peoples manners and attitude. i don't think i am an angel, i know in other ways i am not. but saying please, thank you. opening doors for people, being on time, keeping good on things you say, i don't even think about it, i just do it. i think also the thing you describe with the lies, sometimes people think a 'small lie', like saying you will turn up and not. people think it is insignificant, but its not to the effected person. its annoying, maybe an inconveinience etc to that person, and not fair on them!

Yeah, dude, you're not hearing when I explain things to you about the culture. You're explaining to me what I'm experiencing and what the intentions are for what each person is doing. This is not a typical landlord situation, and for my privacy, I'm not going to explain it. These are not UK or US workers. Driving is not the same in Latin America as it is in Britain or the US. I'm a 49 year old woman, very experienced in life, well-traveled and well-read.

Seriously, stop and think for a minute -- if I were a man, would you keep telling me what I'm experiencing when I've already thoroughly, intelligently and eloquently explained it multiple times?

Hear me in a man voice, some exactly your size, maybe even a little bigger:

Back off, dude, or we're gonna throw down, and I don't wanna do that.
 
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checkouttime

Visionary
Jul 15, 2020
2,904
Yeah, dude, you're not hearing when I explain things to you about the culture. You're explaining to me what I'm experiencing and what the intentions are for what each person is doing. This is not a typical landlord situation. These are not UK or US workers. Driving is not the same in Latin America as it is in Britain or the US. I'm a 49 year old woman, very experienced in life, well-traveled and well-read.

Seriously, stop and think for a minute -- if I were a man, would you keep telling me what I'm experiencing when I've already thoroughly, intelligentlu and eloquently explained it multiple times?

Hear me in a man voice, some exactly your size, maybe even a little bigger:

Back off, dude, or we're gonna throw down, and I don't wanna do that.

obviously i misunderstood what you were saying. you were pointing out it was a culture thing. wheres i was saying i have seen this alot myself.

i didn't mean to offend. and i am certainly not telling you what you are experiencing because of your gender, whatsoever.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
you were pointing out it was a culture thing. wheres i was saying i have seen this alot myself.

Right, you've seen it in your culture, or such things are, to a degree, universal. I felt a lot of negation coming at me about my explaining and defining what I've experienced and observed, instead of being heard, being told a different explanation. Sometimes when someone pinpoints an issue, another will come along and say, "Well it's like that everywhere," and that just takes the wind right out of someone's sails. It's subtle aggression, and that may not have been the intention behind what you said, I don't at all assume it was, but that doesn't mean it's not aggressive.

So, whether you were mansplaining myself to me or not, I felt like everything I said kept getting pushed back at me and I was being told under the surface of that, "You're wrong." I pushed back. Kind of like a dog when someone crosses over into their territory, I showed my teeth and growled a bit. Doesn't mean I dislike you, doesn't mean I want to hurt you, just making my territory clear when it's being encroached upon. When you can understand that, then like a man, I can shake hands and let it go, maybe go get a drink at the pub.
 
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checkouttime

Visionary
Jul 15, 2020
2,904
Right, you've seen it in your culture, or such things are, to a degree, universal. I felt a lot of negation coming at me about my explaining and defining what I've experienced and observed, instead of being heard, being told a different explanation. Sometimes when someone pinpoints an issue, another will come along and say, "Well it's like that everywhere," and that just takes the wind right out of someone's sails. It's subtle aggression, and that may not have been the intention behind what you said, I don't at all assume it was, but that doesn't mean it's not aggressive.

So, whether you were mansplaining myself to me or not, I felt like everything I said kept getting pushed back at me and I was being told under the surface of that, "You're wrong." I pushed back. Kind of like a dog when someone crosses over into their territory, I showed my teeth and growled a bit. Doesn't mean I dislike you, doesn't mean I want to hurt you, just making my territory clear when it's being encroached upon. When you can understand that, then like a man, I can shake hands and let it go, maybe go get a drink at the pub.

i know how you have seen this. i agree with what you were saying totally, but by agreeing with what you said and explaining what i thought about it. i have made you thing i was brushing it off as it' sort of nothing'. not my intention at all.

i can't explain myself well enough! i wasn't saying you were wrong at all, it was more i was saying 'yes you are right' that is how these people act. but it obviously came across totally wrong. it was never meant that way at all. if i didn't agree i would of just said it as simple as i don't agree. i was sort of i guess trying to explain how i feel these people act and why. i probably got the whole point of it mixed up.

if i though i was doing something wrong and it was upsetting, i wouldn't have written the reply. i'm sorry i did now. i didn't realise how bad it might be taken. i think i'll stick to short replies from now on!!! I don't have a problem if you 'show your teeth' or if you dislike me. that would be entirely upto you. what i have a problem with is that i have said something that has upset you which was never my intention.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
i know how you have seen this. i agree with what you were saying totally, but by agreeing with what you said and explaining what i thought about it. i have made you thing i was brushing it off as it' sort of nothing'. not my intention at all.

i can't explain myself well enough! i wasn't saying you were wrong at all, it was more i was saying 'yes you are right' that is how these people act. but it obviously came across totally wrong. it was never meant that way at all. if i didn't agree i would of just said it as simple as i don't agree. i was sort of i guess trying to explain how i feel these people act and why. i probably got the whole point of it mixed up.

if i though i was doing something wrong and it was upsetting, i wouldn't have written the reply. i'm sorry i did now. i didn't realise how bad it might be taken. i think i'll stick to short replies from now on!!! I don't have a problem if you 'show your teeth' or if you dislike me. that would be entirely upto you. what i have a problem with is that i have said something that has upset you which was never my intention.

I know it wasn't your intention to upset me. I'm an adult, I own my feelings, and therefore I speak when something bothers me or doesn't feel right. If I don't feel heard, I speak a little louder, a little clearer, sometimes a little sharper. You don't have to own how I felt or how I speak and I wouldn't want you to. I was wanting to make boundaries clear, but not emotionally flagellate you over it. I tried to meet you as best I could where you were, man to man so to speak. There is respect in that, at least that's the intention that I have, which likewise may not be received as intended.

It's of course up to you if you want to do shorter replies. Like I said to you off this thread, I enjoyed your "essay" here and learning about you. Communicating is challenging, there are always things that can be misunderstood. I've gotten a lot out of this experience between us,and I wouldn't have if you hadn't broken your own precedent. But if it doesn't feel good for you to say so much, then I respect that.
 
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checkouttime

Visionary
Jul 15, 2020
2,904
I know it wasn't your intention to upset me. I'm an adult, I own my feelings, and therefore I speak when something bothers me or doesn't feel right. If I don't feel heard, I speak a little louder, a little clearer, sometimes a little sharper. You don't have to own how I felt or how I speak and I wouldn't want you to. I was wanting to make boundaries clear, but not emotionally flagellate you over it. I tried to meet you as best I could where you were, man to man so to speak. There is respect in that, at least that's the intention that I have, which likewise may not be received as intended.

It's of course up to you if you want to do shorter replies. Like I said to you off this thread, I enjoyed your "essay" here and learning about you. Communicating is challenging, there are always things that can be misunderstood. I've gotten a lot out of this experience between us,and I wouldn't have if you hadn't broken your own precedent. But if it doesn't feel good for you to say so much, then I respect that.

i respect you speaking out that something bothers you. i wouldn't have known how it came across if you hadn't reacted how you did!!!! i really didn't see it coming across how it did, now i understand how it did come across.the way in which it wasn't intended!!

your right communicating is challenging, on the internet anyway. as there is no emotion etc, people don't know others, and how they might want to come across. i feel what has happened here is wires have got totally crossed. even more so, as now i realise you have been in these certain situations and feel about them in a certain way. by me agreeing with you and saying, yes, i too have seen this. it has made you feel i was making out what you had experienced 'less important'. whereas in reality i meant it as yes, people really are like what you are saying. not that oh it happens all the time, everywhere, which it seems to have come across as.
 
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