hibikikyuxx

hibikikyuxx

Student
Oct 17, 2023
179
We don't know and never will know, although near death experiences and out of body experiences give us a good idea of what it might be. I'm guessing it depends from person to person, that's why every near death experience is different. It makes sense, because it's not like everyone expects the same thing to happen after death.

We don't even know where consciousness comes.
  • We know how each part of the brain works yet we can't locate consciousness anywhere.
  • Children remember past lives.
  • Many people remember something that happend pre-birth.
  • Clinically dead people who had no brain activity were able to tell what was going on around them.
By the way, saying "I don't remember before I was born so it was nothing" is a bad argument because it's not like we remember our birth, yet we know it happend because we are here. We know that babies are conscious as they can smile, laugh, and cry, but their ego (when they begin to like things and dislike things) gets developed during the first three years of their life. So there's a clear difference between consciousness and the ego. I believe consciousness is a fundamental property of the universe like time and matter is.

Nothingness is not an option. "Nothingness" literally doesn't exist, it's NOTHING.

So here are the possible options:
  • Reincarnation in this reality.
  • Reincarnation in another reality (the multiverse theory is a well known one).
  • Endless dreams (our dreams prove that we don't require a body to do things).
  • Astral plane (Astral Projection is legit proof).
  • ???
As for heaven and hell, they are definitely fake as they are things made up by humans, so I'm not even going to consider them.

Also, a afterlife doesn't have to do with anything with God. The afterlife would prove that consciousness is immortal, that we are conscious beings in temporary human bodies; not that there's an old magic man in the sky which is absurd.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: WeDontKnowTheFuture, tranny123, DT2007 and 4 others
Beyond_Repair

Beyond_Repair

Disheartened Ghost
Oct 27, 2023
452
what do you think is on the other side ?
Realistically, I don't think anything. I think once the neurons in your brain stop firing, that's it.

If there was something, though, I'd wish for it to be like a lucid dream, but a happy one - where you can do whatever you want and live your ideal version of life with no pain, grief, or any kind of negative emotion at all. Like heaven, I guess, but with that fuzzy, light, surreal quality that dreams have.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WAITING TO DIE, DT2007, crunchycuticles and 2 others
MatrixPrisoner

MatrixPrisoner

Enlightened
Jul 8, 2023
1,414
Nothing. If there really was a God, the bastard POS wouldn't have created a word like this.
 
  • Like
  • Hugs
  • Love
Reactions: Vorty30, WAITING TO DIE, voyager and 1 other person
chasm

chasm

It hurts :(
Oct 21, 2023
39
Reincarnation. I mean "you" are gone forever. But there will be another experience.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WAITING TO DIE, DT2007, sserafim and 2 others
isthisit?

isthisit?

The name's Cedrik
Jun 23, 2023
134
Most likely nothing but hey, there have been weird consequences that have made me question god and god is sayd to help in the worst of times. So, what I'm trying to say is that there is a small chance something is on the other side but weirdly god doesn't help some people so idk I'm getting way to deep into this.
Most likely nothing but hey, there have been weird consequences that have made me question god and god is sayd to help in the worst of times. So, what I'm trying to say is that there is a small chance something is on the other side but weirdly god doesn't help some people so idk I'm getting way to deep into this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vorty30, Csmith8827, WAITING TO DIE and 1 other person
NocturnILL

NocturnILL

She will become the wind…
Sep 11, 2023
434
Hopefully nothing but if there is something, I would want it to be a heaven of my own creation, my own personal world/heaven. I believe in reincarnation though, so most probably I would be reincarnated and forced to do this life thing again. Reincarnation just seems the most logical out of all of the theories about the afterlife/other side. I'd like to be a cat in my next life, I'd hate to be a human again.
Being a cat sounds amazing! Would you prefer to be a wild cat or more of a house cat, if you could choose??
 
  • Like
Reactions: RandomMacBeth, WAITING TO DIE, sserafim and 1 other person
sadnhopeless

sadnhopeless

life's a gamble
Nov 2, 2023
14
Nothing I hope, but the fact that we even exist and are conscious of it makes me wonder if we've already lived other lives in some way or shape. I don't believe in the traditional thought of reincarnation of the same body of consciousness but I do believe that there may be the possibility to be conscious again if that makes sense. If so, I hope that that consciousness can be a healthy, happy, and fulfilling one as opposed to my current miserable depressed state.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WAITING TO DIE, DT2007, sserafim and 2 others
DEATH IS FREEDOM

DEATH IS FREEDOM

Death is the solution to unsolvable problems.
Sep 13, 2023
608
We don't know and never will know, although near death experiences and out of body experiences give us a good idea of what it might be. I'm guessing it depends from person to person, that's why every near death experience is different. It makes sense, because it's not like everyone expects the same thing to happen after death.

We don't even know where consciousness comes.
  • We know how each part of the brain works yet we can't locate consciousness anywhere.
  • Children remember past lives.
  • Many people remember something that happend pre-birth.
  • Clinically dead people who had no brain activity were able to tell what was going on around them.
By the way, saying "I don't remember before I was born so it was nothing" is a bad argument because it's not like we remember our birth, yet we know it happend because we are here. We know that babies are conscious as they can smile, laugh, and cry, but their ego (when they begin to like things and dislike things) gets developed during the first three years of their life. So there's a clear difference between consciousness and the ego. I believe consciousness is a fundamental property of the universe like time and matter is.

Nothingness is not an option. "Nothingness" literally doesn't exist, it's NOTHING.

So here are the possible options:
  • Reincarnation in this reality.
  • Reincarnation in another reality (the multiverse theory is a well known one).
  • Endless dreams (our dreams prove that we don't require a body to do things).
  • Astral plane (Astral Projection is legit proof).
  • ???
As for heaven and hell, they are definitely fake as they are things made up by humans, so I'm not even going to consider them.

Also, a afterlife doesn't have to do with anything with God. The afterlife would prove that consciousness is immortal, that we are conscious beings in temporary human bodies; not that there's an old magic man in the sky which is absurd.

We don't know and never will know, although near death experiences and out of body experiences give us a good idea of what it might be. I'm guessing it depends from person to person, that's why every near death experience is different. It makes sense, because it's not like everyone expects the same thing to happen after death.

We don't even know where consciousness comes.
  • We know how each part of the brain works yet we can't locate consciousness anywhere.
  • Children remember past lives.
  • Many people remember something that happend pre-birth.
  • Clinically dead people who had no brain activity were able to tell what was going on around them.
By the way, saying "I don't remember before I was born so it was nothing" is a bad argument because it's not like we remember our birth, yet we know it happend because we are here. We know that babies are conscious as they can smile, laugh, and cry, but their ego (when they begin to like things and dislike things) gets developed during the first three years of their life. So there's a clear difference between consciousness and the ego. I believe consciousness is a fundamental property of the universe like time and matter is.

Nothingness is not an option. "Nothingness" literally doesn't exist, it's NOTHING.C

So here are the possible options:
  • Reincarnation in this reality.
  • Reincarnation in another reality (the multiverse theory is a well known one).
  • Endless dreams (our dreams prove that we don't require a body to do things).
  • Astral plane (Astral Projection is legit proof).
  • ???
As for heaven and hell, they are definitely fake as they are things made up by humans, so I'm not even going to consider them.

Also, a afterlife doesn't have to do with anything with God. The afterlife would prove that consciousness is immortal, that we are conscious beings in temporary human bodies; not that there's an old magic man in the sky which is absurd.
Consciousness is an individual´s ability to use various mental faculties. Do you mean soul when you write about consciousness? Soul is only a human invention. That is why no one can locate the soul. Every atom in our bodies came from a star that exploded. The brain is one organ in the body with electrical impulses. The brain is one organ in the body which may be damaged and stop functioning normally. If man has a soul - when during the evolution did it arise? Has even single-celled life have a soul? If the parents have no soul - how can the offspring have a soul? How do you know that people remember something that happened before birth? There are people who lie and say wrong about many things. The human brain can function several hours after death - that is why clinically dead people were able to tell what was going on around them. Or perhaps their stories were false. However, it is possible that there is a spirit world. But since we cannot perceive spirits with our senses - how are we supposed to know?
 
  • Like
Reactions: WAITING TO DIE, pthnrdnojvsc, DT2007 and 1 other person
drownll

drownll

Student
Jul 7, 2023
134
We don't know and never will know, although near death experiences and out of body experiences give us a good idea of what it might be. I'm guessing it depends from person to person, that's why every near death experience is different. It makes sense, because it's not like everyone expects the same thing to happen after death.

We don't even know where consciousness comes.
  • We know how each part of the brain works yet we can't locate consciousness anywhere.
  • Children remember past lives.
  • Many people remember something that happend pre-birth.
  • Clinically dead people who had no brain activity were able to tell what was going on around them.
By the way, saying "I don't remember before I was born so it was nothing" is a bad argument because it's not like we remember our birth, yet we know it happend because we are here. We know that babies are conscious as they can smile, laugh, and cry, but their ego (when they begin to like things and dislike things) gets developed during the first three years of their life. So there's a clear difference between consciousness and the ego. I believe consciousness is a fundamental property of the universe like time and matter is.

Nothingness is not an option. "Nothingness" literally doesn't exist, it's NOTHING.

So here are the possible options:
  • Reincarnation in this reality.
  • Reincarnation in another reality (the multiverse theory is a well known one).
  • Endless dreams (our dreams prove that we don't require a body to do things).
  • Astral plane (Astral Projection is legit proof).
  • ???
As for heaven and hell, they are definitely fake as they are things made up by humans, so I'm not even going to consider them.

Also, a afterlife doesn't have to do with anything with God. The afterlife would prove that consciousness is immortal, that we are conscious beings in temporary human bodies; not that there's an old magic man in the sky which is absurd.
One of the very few rational post here regarding metaphysics that I can relate to, I can tell there is knowledge, experience, and a lot of inner research behind. Thank you
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: WeDontKnowTheFuture, DT2007, sserafim and 2 others
hibikikyuxx

hibikikyuxx

Student
Oct 17, 2023
179
Consciousness is an individual´s ability to use various mental faculties.
That's an assumption.

Everyone has their own opinion so it's fine if you believe that but the fact that our conscious awareness continues after death in an environment we call the afterlife was proved by four of the top scientists of their time back in the early 1900s. Since that time, the evidence has increased exponentially through many different categories of afterlife research and investigation.

As for how this occurs, we have the answer from 100 years of research into quantum physics. Materialism has been demonstrated to be false. What the science has demonstrated is that our experience of an external reality is a mental phenomena, the foundation of which is consciousness. Our experiences of the physical world around us can be compared to the same kind of experience in a dream state, where our mind is producing an experience of an external, physical world from available information.

Since consciousness is fundamental, and the experience of an external physical world including our bodies is generated by consciousness, the death of that physical body cannot cause the death of one's conscious awareness. That would be like saying that if my body in a dream died, my consciousness would cease to exist.

The soul and be thought of as consciousness. This is also a debate, as conscious awareness is different from bodily energy. For example, a person in a coma is alive, but they are absent of conscious awareness of this reality.

Science cannot account for what happens to our consciousness when we die. Science has no idea how consciousness is formed or how it develops. There is absolutely no evidence that the brain creates consciousness, so where does it come from? Who created the part of YOU that identifies as YOU?

Is it 'I think, therefore I am'....or is it 'I am, there I think?'

It is reasonable to assume, given the data we have so far, that it is the consciousness we refer to when speaking of 'souls' not the energy that powers our bodies.

There are many verified cases of brain-dead people later regaining brain function and consciousness, complete with memories or 'hallucinations' that took place during the time their brain was 'dead'.

A great example is the case of Dr Eben Alexander. His brain was turned to mush but he still had vivid NDE memories during that time. What makes his accounts even more fascinating is that he is a neurosurgeon. He no longer subscribes to the idea that consciousness is created by the brain, but rather, consciousness is received by the brain. Like a radio receives satellite signals.
Do you mean soul when you write about consciousness?
No, I mean consciousness.

I guess it depends on what we consider a soul to be and what we consider consciousness to be.
Soul=spiritual essence of a person which includes one's identity, personality, and memories.
Consciousness=awareness of internal and external existence, gets also often associated with the soul, a mental state, wakefulness, one's self of selfhood, and much more.

Consciousness is too complex to put it into one category.
Soul is only a human invention
I never said anything about a soul. I believe in consciousness. I don't know about a soul as that is something that was made up by humans and sounds too similiar to our "ego".

There is clearly a difference between ego and consciousness, as consciousness doesn't come from the brain, while the ego is developed during the first three of your life. Everyone is born conscious, many people remember being conscious before their birth, but everyone's ego gets developed during the first three years of their life. If consciousness comes from the brain then it would have been located by now, and yet, none of the scientists can locate where consciousness comes from, even though we know how each part of the brain works. Trying to search for consciousness is like trying to search for time and matter. If consciousness comes from the brain, then the people who were clincally dead and had no brain activity going on, wouldn't have been able to experience anything, but they were.
Every atom in our bodies came from a star that exploded. The brain is one organ in the body with electrical impulses. The brain is one organ in the body which may be damaged and stop functioning normally.
Do you consider consciousness to be physical or non-physical?

Physical=Product of the brain.
Non physical=Non product of the brain (existing outside).

In my opinion, consciousness clearly doesn't have physical properties. If consciousness was physical then we would know by now where it is located but we don't. We know what our brain, heart, limbs, and muscles are there for, we can see them, but we can't see consciousness. I believe consciousness is a fundamental property of the universe and is neither physical nor mental.

Interesting enough, the structure of the cosmic web and galaxies are practically the same as the structure of brain cells. Wonder what's that about.
Image 9066e Brain Universe
Brain cell galaxy
2xlqMvWkT9u10X4chXpb file
If man has a soul - when during the evolution did it arise?
I never said anything about a soul.
Has even single-celled life have a soul?
Cells are minimally conscious. They can react to light, dark, gravity, heat, can repair stress and trauma damage, and can replicate themselves. They cannot, however, make complex decisions or decide to change their behaviors, they are primarily reactive.
If the parents have no soul - how can the offspring have a soul?
Assuming that there is a soul, if the parents don't have a soul then obviously their offspring doesn't have one either.
How do you know that people remember something that happened before birth?
There are many people out there who have pre-birth memories. And unless every single one of them lied for no reason, I have no reason to disregard them.
There are people who lie and say wrong about many things
Do you honestly believe that every person who has pre-birth memories is a liar? I remember things that happend when I was 2-3 years old but I know that many other people don't remember things that happend when they were that young. Does that now mean that I'm a liar?

There are many things in life that are impossible to explain unless you experience it yourself. Born bind people seeing in NDE, people reporting what the doctors and the nurses were doing while they were brain dead, people reading 5 code numbers while out of body, people sharing the same dream, people having dreams that predicted their future, people having the same "hallucination", remote viewing, sumerian tablets, quantum mechanics, etc.
The human brain can function several hours after death - that is why clinically dead people were able to tell what was going on around them
There are many people who were clinically dead and had no brain activity going on, they were considered dead, but they still experienced an out of body experience during that time where they were able to tell what's going on around them. If consciousness is part of the brain then that wouldn't have been possible because there was no brain activity going on.

Pam Reynolds case:

"Pam Reynolds Lowery (1956 – May 22, 2010), from Atlanta, Georgia, was an American singer-songwriter. In 1991, at the age of 35, she stated that she had a near-death experience (NDE) during a brain operation performed by Robert F. Spetzler at the Barrow Neurological Institute in Phoenix, Arizona. Reynolds was under close medical monitoring during the entire operation. During part of the operation she had no brain-wave activity and no blood flowing in her brain, which rendered her clinically dead. She claimed to have made several observations during the procedure which medical personnel reported to be accurate. Within the field of near-death studies and among those who believe in life after death, the case has been cited as well-documented and significant, with many proponents considering it to be evidence of the survival of consciousness after death. Reynolds reported that during the operation she heard a sound like a natural 'D' that seemed to pull her out of her body and allowed her to "float" above the operating room and watch the doctors perform the operation. Reynolds claims that during this time she felt "more aware than normal" and her vision was more focused and clearer than normal vision. She reported seeing the surgical "saw" but said it looked like an electric toothbrush, and this is in fact true. She said she could hear conversations between operating room staff, even though she had earphones in her ears which were making a loud clicking noise many times per second in order to monitor her brain function. At some point during the operation, she says she noticed a presence and was pulled towards a light. She says she began to discern figures in the light, including her grandmother, an uncle, other deceased relatives and people unknown to her. According to Reynolds, the longer she was there, the more she enjoyed it, but at some point she was reminded that she had to go back. She says her uncle brought her back to her body, but she did not want to go, so he pushed her in, and the sensation was like that of jumping into ice water."

There was also a study about 10 patients whose hearts stopped and the ones that had vivid afterlife visions were the ones without brain activity while the ones with brain activity didn't have those experiences. Scientists have no explanation for people who experienced out of body experiences without brain activity going on. Consciousness is a mystery to them just like it is for us.
Or perhaps their stories were false
Would be too many coincidences if their stories were false.
However, it is possible that there is a spirit world. But since we cannot perceive spirits with our senses - how are we supposed to know?
I mean, there's the astral plane, and we know that Astral Projection is a thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WeDontKnowTheFuture, DT2007, sserafim and 1 other person
L

Loindelaterre

Member
Oct 31, 2023
12
There's nothing after death, just a lifeless body. After death is nothingness.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: Vorty30, WAITING TO DIE, pthnrdnojvsc and 2 others
crunchycuticles

crunchycuticles

Member
Oct 5, 2023
6
I hope that there's nothing so that I don't have to think anymore
 
  • Hugs
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: Vorty30, WAITING TO DIE, hungariancorpse and 1 other person
sserafim

sserafim

brighter than the sun, that’s just me
Sep 13, 2023
9,011
Being a cat sounds amazing! Would you prefer to be a wild cat or more of a house cat, if you could choose??
I'd prefer to be a house cat. I think that being a wild cat would be tough, it would be hard to be out in the elements and have to fend for yourself. I'd love to be a house cat and be taken care of. I'd love to just lounge and laze around all day, not doing anything. I'd love to be able to just vibe and chill without anyone calling me "lazy" or "unproductive". I'd love to live life without any responsibilities, obligations, demands or expectations. I would love to be carefree, without any of the worries or troubles that come with human existence. I would like a certain degree and element of freedom though, I think I would go outside and explore and hunt for fun, but still be a house cat at the end of the day. I truly believe that pets with nice and caring owners live the best lives. I'd much rather live my dog's life over mine. He'll never have to work for a living or pay to exist on this planet, he can just simply live.
 
Last edited:
  • Love
Reactions: WAITING TO DIE, Passersby and NocturnILL
SovietSuicide

SovietSuicide

Student
Jan 8, 2022
100
That's an assumption.

Everyone has their own opinion so it's fine if you believe that but the fact that our conscious awareness continues after death in an environment we call the afterlife was proved by four of the top scientists of their time back in the early 1900s. Since that time, the evidence has increased exponentially through many different categories of afterlife research and investigation.

As for how this occurs, we have the answer from 100 years of research into quantum physics. Materialism has been demonstrated to be false. What the science has demonstrated is that our experience of an external reality is a mental phenomena, the foundation of which is consciousness. Our experiences of the physical world around us can be compared to the same kind of experience in a dream state, where our mind is producing an experience of an external, physical world from available information.

Since consciousness is fundamental, and the experience of an external physical world including our bodies is generated by consciousness, the death of that physical body cannot cause the death of one's conscious awareness. That would be like saying that if my body in a dream died, my consciousness would cease to exist.
I don't think any scientists have proven Materialism to be false. If anything Materialism has proven to be more & more accurate.

You say this
It is reasonable to assume, given the data we have so far, that it is the consciousness we refer to when speaking of 'souls' not the energy that powers our bodies.
But then you say this
Cells are minimally conscious. They can react to light, dark, gravity, heat, can repair stress and trauma damage, and can replicate themselves. They cannot, however, make complex decisions or decide to change their behaviors, they are primarily reactive.
So aren't you just equating consciousness to intelligence?

In my opinion, consciousness clearly doesn't have physical properties. If consciousness was physical then we would know by now where it is located but we don't. We know what our brain, heart, limbs, and muscles are there for, we can see them, but we can't see consciousness. I believe consciousness is a fundamental property of the universe and is neither physical nor mental.
It's an emergent property of the brain, specifically the prefrontal and posterior occipital cortices and the claustrum, this is why when people here CTB they shoot the brain stem. No blood to the brain = no consciousness.

The second point is the similarity between neural networks and galaxies but I can also point out similarities between the golden ratio and shells, plants & animals. The number of petals in a flower consistently follows the Fibonacci sequence. It doesn't mean flowers are mathematics. It just means the universe tends to build complexity from smaller units of itself in conflict & interaction which tends to produce patterns. One might call this Dialectical Materialism.

The same thing happens in evolution, smaller units of cells build complexity until you have very complex species.

Do you honestly believe that every person who has pre-birth memories is a liar? I remember things that happend when I was 2-3 years old but I know that many other people don't remember things that happend when they were that young. Does that now mean that I'm a liar?

Yes absolutely, false memories have been studied in great detail & we can reliably produce false memories within a person without even much effort. A lot of the time even a suggestion is enough to completely change a person's perception of what they did that morning.

Many people were affected by the "mandela effect" phenomenon, many people claim they were abducted by aliens, many people claim they were abused when they weren't, many people claim they were members of cults that don't even exist. Memory is provably the least reliable thing we can consult as humans.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pthnrdnojvsc and sserafim
Abandoned Character

Abandoned Character

(he./him)
Mar 24, 2023
256
When the thing doing the expriencing ceases to function, there is no experience. There is nothing to undergo after death.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: Vorty30, WAITING TO DIE, pthnrdnojvsc and 1 other person
finalrequiem

finalrequiem

kill me yesterday
Oct 30, 2023
12
The love of my life. I have to believe I'll be with him in death or else I'll lose my mind (more than I already have)

That's my one and only wish. If not that, then I don't want to exist, period.
 
  • Hugs
Reactions: Vorty30, WAITING TO DIE and NocturnILL
hibikikyuxx

hibikikyuxx

Student
Oct 17, 2023
179
I don't think any scientists have proven Materialism to be false. If anything Materialism has proven to be more & more accurate
Disagree.


To quote the theoretical physicist Max Planck, whose discovery of energy quanta won him the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1918: "I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness."

Max Planck was the father of quantum theory and a winner of the Nobel Prize. His book "The Philosophy of Physics" is worth a read if you got the time for it.

Then there's also Erwin Schrödinger, an austrian physicist, one of the founders of quantum theory, and winner of the 1933 Nobel Prize in Physics.

"Although I think that life may be the result of an accident, I do not think that of consciousness. Consciousness cannot be accounted for in physical terms. For consciousness is absolutely fundamental. It cannot be accounted for in terms of anything else."
You say this

But then you say this
I said that it is reasonable to ASSUME. Nobody knows what consciousness is and where it comes from.
So aren't you just equating consciousness to intelligence?
No I'm not.
It's an emergent property of the brain, specifically the prefrontal and posterior occipital cortices and the claustrum
Wrong. That's an assumption. Nobody knows where consciousness is located. The fact that people who were clinically dead and had no brain activity were able to tell what's going on around them, disproves this.
this is why when people here CTB they shoot the brain stem.
Uhh, no. How would you even know that? That the people here ctb by shooting the brain stem? If they ctb by using a gun, they shoot it to die, obviously.
No blood to the brain = no consciousness
Then explain to me how people who were clinically dead and had no brain activity going on were able to tell what's going on around them.

Not to mention, born blind people seeing in NDE, people reporting what the doctors and the nurses were doing while they were brain dead, people reading 5 code numbers while out of body, people sharing the same dream, people having dreams that predicted their future, people having the same "hallucination", remote viewing, sumerian tablets, quantum mechanics, etc.
The second point is the similarity between neural networks and galaxies but I can also point out similarities between the golden ratio and shells, plants & animals. The number of petals in a flower consistently follows the Fibonacci sequence. It doesn't mean flowers are mathematics. It just means the universe tends to build complexity from smaller units of itself in conflict & interaction which tends to produce patterns. One might call this Dialectical Materialism.
I saw this counter argument on Reddit and I gotta agree with it:

"This is actually a myth. If you look around nature for any significant amount of time, the golden ratio and it's derivatives aren't really common at all. The only place these numbers actually consistently show up are in some plants like sunflowers; where you need to arrange growth without overcrowding. ɸ is the solution to x² = x + 1 after all. A famous example of this being blatantly false is in the case of nautilus/snail shells. If any person tries to claim shells naturally follow the Fibonacci spiral, they're either lying or they've never seen one before. Shells are equiangular spirals with the equation r = kθ(2/π). k can be any number from 1 to π to 42 depending on species. It's no surprise that if you look long enough you'll find one where k = ɸ; that doesn't make it a pattern, or even common. It's largely just an ocean of cherrypicked images of very specific people who kinda sorta have facial features that maybe line up with a few well placed set of Fibonacci spirals from the side. There's no devine form of mathematical beauty appearing in all forms of life."
Yes absolutely, false memories have been studied in great detail & we can reliably produce false memories within a person without even much effort.
That's just not true. It depends from person to person. Some people remember things that happend to them when they were toddlers, and other people don't.

When I was 3, I was conscious enough and self aware enough, to be able to run alone from the Kindergarten I was in, back to home. I was also self aware enough to pay attention to the cars and traffic lights while I was crossing the street. It's funny because I suffer from memory issues when it comes to things that happend just a day ago, but when it comes to things that happend years and even decades ago, I still have memories from that time (and clear memories at that, like I remember the exact way I went and I why I did it). And before you say "that's just a fake memory" NO, as my parents remember that it happend when we talked about it 2 decades later.
many people claim they were abducted by aliens
Many? I literally haven't heard of a single person who claims that.
many people claim they were abused when they weren't
How would you know if they were abused or not?
many people claim they were members of cults that don't even exist
Again: Many? I literally haven't heard of a single person who claims that.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: WeDontKnowTheFuture, finalrequiem, drownll and 1 other person
SovietSuicide

SovietSuicide

Student
Jan 8, 2022
100
Disagree.

To quote the theoretical physicist Max Planck, whose discovery of energy quanta won him the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1918: "I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness."
Okay? Does he have an argument? I don't really care what he "regards"

I said that it is reasonable to ASSUME. Nobody knows what consciousness is and where it comes from.
It's an emergent property of the brain, specifically the prefrontal and posterior occipital cortices and the claustrum.
Wrong. That's an assumption. Nobody knows where consciousness is located.
It's an emergent property of the brain, specifically the prefrontal and posterior occipital cortices and the claustrum.

You are assuming it's not.
The fact that people who were clinically dead and had no brain activity were able to tell what's going on around them, disproves this.
Based on their memories? Has this ever been tested? If so link a study.

Uhh, no. How would you even know that? That the people here ctb by shooting the brain stem? If they ctb by using a gun, they shoot it to die, obviously.
What?? That's what I said. Death = no consciousness.

Then explain to me how people who were clinically dead and had no brain activity going on were able to tell what's going on around them.
I assume you read this on conspiritualitynews.org or something.

Do you honestly believe that every person who has pre-birth memories is a liar? I remember things that happend when I was 2-3 years old but I know that many other people don't remember things that happend when they were that young. Does that now mean that I'm a liar?

Yes absolutely, false memories have been studied in great detail & we can reliably produce false memories within a person without even much effort.
That's just not true. It depends from person to person. Some people remember things that happend to them when they were toddlers, and other people don't.
Are you saying all memories have to be real if someone says they are? I remember you being wrong so therefor you're wrong.

I linked you psychological studies which prove it to be the case. "That's just not true" is not an argument. Please treat me with the same intellectual respect.


many people claim they were abducted by aliens
Many? I literally haven't heard of a single person who claims that.

many people claim they were abused when they weren't
How would you know if they were abused or not?

many people claim they were members of cults that don't even exist
Again: Many? I literally haven't heard of a single person who claims that.

These are very very common phenomena's I find it hard to believe you've never heard of any of them.


Finally the reddit post you linked is just a word salad, I couldn't derive any actual meaning from it tbh.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: Vorty30, finalrequiem, WAITING TO DIE and 2 others
NocturnILL

NocturnILL

She will become the wind…
Sep 11, 2023
434
I'd prefer to be a house cat. I think that being a wild cat would be tough, it would be hard to be out in the elements and have to fend for yourself. I'd love to be a house cat and be taken care of. I'd love to just lounge and laze around all day, not doing anything. I'd love to be able to just vibe and chill without anyone calling me "lazy" or "unproductive". I'd love to live life without any responsibilities, obligations, demands or expectations. I would love to be carefree, without any of the worries or troubles that come with human existence. I would like a certain degree and element of freedom though, I think I would go outside and explore and hunt for fun, but still be a house cat at the end of the day. I truly believe that pets with nice and caring owners live the best lives. I'd much rather take my dog's life over mine. He'll never have to work for a living or pay to exist on this planet, he can just simply live.
Oh yes wild animals are really just surviving to live when you think about it.
Being a house cat to caring owners honestly sounds like the life. Just living and existing with no real responsibilities and amazing senses. Occasional pets and cuddles too. I'd switch with my spoiled dogs in a heartbeat too loll. I'm rooting for your cat reincarnation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: finalrequiem, WAITING TO DIE and sserafim
hibikikyuxx

hibikikyuxx

Student
Oct 17, 2023
179
Okay? Does he have an argument?
Read his books.
I don't really care what he "regards"
Hey now, Max Planck won the nobel prize in physics, treat him with intellectual respect.
It's an emergent property of the brain, specifically the prefrontal and posterior occipital cortices and the claustrum.
Wrong. That's an assumption. Nobody knows where consciousness is located. Neuroscientists themselves don't even understand consciousness, nor where it comes from. If it was part of the brain, it would have been located by now, but consciousness can nowhere be found in the brain even though we know how each part of the brain works.
It's an emergent property of the brain, specifically the prefrontal and posterior occipital cortices and the claustrum.
And again. That's an assumption. Nobody knows where consciousness is located. Neuroscientists themselves don't even understand consciousness, nor where it comes from. If it was part of the brain, it would have been located by now, but consciousness can nowhere be found in the brain even though we know how each part of the brain works.
You are assuming it's not.
No, you are assuming it is. That's like you saying "unicorns exist" and I say "they don't" but then you say that I'm assuming they don't.
Based on their memories? Has this ever been tested? If so link a study
Pam Reynolds case:

"Pam Reynolds Lowery (1956 – May 22, 2010), from Atlanta, Georgia, was an American singer-songwriter. In 1991, at the age of 35, she stated that she had a near-death experience (NDE) during a brain operation performed by Robert F. Spetzler at the Barrow Neurological Institute in Phoenix, Arizona. Reynolds was under close medical monitoring during the entire operation. During part of the operation she had no brain-wave activity and no blood flowing in her brain, which rendered her clinically dead. She claimed to have made several observations during the procedure which medical personnel reported to be accurate. Within the field of near-death studies and among those who believe in life after death, the case has been cited as well-documented and significant, with many proponents considering it to be evidence of the survival of consciousness after death. Reynolds reported that during the operation she heard a sound like a natural 'D' that seemed to pull her out of her body and allowed her to "float" above the operating room and watch the doctors perform the operation. Reynolds claims that during this time she felt "more aware than normal" and her vision was more focused and clearer than normal vision. She reported seeing the surgical "saw" but said it looked like an electric toothbrush, and this is in fact true. She said she could hear conversations between operating room staff, even though she had earphones in her ears which were making a loud clicking noise many times per second in order to monitor her brain function. At some point during the operation, she says she noticed a presence and was pulled towards a light. She says she began to discern figures in the light, including her grandmother, an uncle, other deceased relatives and people unknown to her. According to Reynolds, the longer she was there, the more she enjoyed it, but at some point she was reminded that she had to go back. She says her uncle brought her back to her body, but she did not want to go, so he pushed her in, and the sensation was like that of jumping into ice water."

There was also a study about 10 patients whose hearts stopped and the ones that had vivid afterlife visions were the ones without brain activity while the ones with brain activity didn't have those experiences. Scientists have no explanation for people who experienced out of body experiences without brain activity going on. Consciousness is a mystery to them just like it is for us.
What?? That's what I said. Death = no consciousness.
That's not what I meant though.

Agree to disagree.
I assume you read this on conspiritualitynews.org or something
Very funny, considering how you went out of your way to link a random-ass site about people who claim that they were abducted by aliens.

But no, I've heard of and read many stories about people who were clinically dead and had no brain activity, yet were able to tell what's going on around them.
Are you saying all memories have to be real if someone says they are?
Again: When I was 3, I was conscious enough and self aware enough, to be able to run alone from the Kindergarten I was in, back to home. I was also self aware enough to pay attention to the cars and traffic lights while I was crossing the street. It's funny because I suffer from memory issues when it comes to things that happend just a day ago, but when it comes to things that happend years and even decades ago, I still have memories from that time (and clear memories at that, like I remember the exact way I went and I why I did it). And before you say "that's just a fake memory" NO, as my parents remember that it happend when we talked about it 2 decades later.

Yes, fake memories can be a thing BUT when not only me but multiple other people remember something happening, then no, that's not a fake memory.
I remember you being wrong so therefor you're wrong.
That's just your opinion.
I linked you psychological studies which prove it to be the case
I don't care. You fail to understand that not every human works the same and remembers the same amount of stuff. Again, some people remember things that happend when they were toddlers, and other people don't.
"That's just not true" is not an argument.
Neither is "I don't really care what he regards".
These are very very common phenomena's I find it hard to believe you've never heard of any of them
I really never heard of people claiming stuff like that. I'm interested in consciousness. I wouldn't know about some people having fake memories about alien abduction unless I purposely looked for those kind of stories. They sound too similiar to the fake ghost stories you see on YouTube.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: finalrequiem and sserafim
Abandoned Character

Abandoned Character

(he./him)
Mar 24, 2023
256
Everyone has their own opinion so it's fine if you believe that but the fact that our conscious awareness continues after death in an environment we call the afterlife was proved by four of the top scientists of their time back in the early 1900s. Since that time, the evidence has increased exponentially through many different categories of afterlife research and investigation.
This is blatantly untrue. It is on you to provide the evidence for your claims, which you have done poorly. Who are these "top scientists," where are the peer-reviewed articles? I am not going to say that all of what you're claiming is false--although I want to--but what I will say is that what you're claiming is definitely fringe, and unlikely to be called science by mainstream institutions. I could be wrong, but you failed to back up your claims with anything verifiable, which unfortunately is so common with these afterlife pushers.

As for how this occurs, we have the answer from 100 years of research into quantum physics. Materialism has been demonstrated to be false. What the science has demonstrated is that our experience of an external reality is a mental phenomena, the foundation of which is consciousness. Our experiences of the physical world around us can be compared to the same kind of experience in a dream state, where our mind is producing an experience of an external, physical world from available information.
Again, you mention quantum physics but make claims that have nothing to do with the matter. Materialism is not demonstrably dead. I speak as though I am a materialist, but I will concede that I do not fully believe in its efficacy to fully describe reality. My point is that it is not obvious and the debate still continues.

You believe in the afterlife, I ask you this, what is the nature of your afterlife? And if you are inspired by specific theology, what do you pull from?
 
  • Like
Reactions: finalrequiem, WAITING TO DIE, SovietSuicide and 1 other person
SovietSuicide

SovietSuicide

Student
Jan 8, 2022
100
Hey now, Max Planck won the nobel prize in physics, treat him with intellectual respect.
We don't afford intellectual respect to people, that's an appeal to authority fallacy, we afford it to their arguments.

Very funny, considering how you went out of your way to link a random-ass site about people who claim that they were abducted by aliens.
Lol the difference is I didn't cite it as 'proof' of aliens. I cited it as proof that people claimed they had experiences of aliens and that it was likely bs. Well, really just to bring it to your attention as you claimed you never heard of it before.

The rest I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether we can "locate" consciousness cause we're going in circles on that.

You did bring up the Pam Reynolds case which is fair enough, I would certainly count it as evidence in your favour but as you can read on the page
Reynolds' near-death experience has been put forward as evidence supporting an afterlife by proponents such as cardiologist Michael Sabom in his book Light and Death. According to Sabom, Reynolds' experience occurred during a period in which her brain had completely ceased to function.[6]

Critics say that the amount of time during which Reynolds was "flatlined" is generally misrepresented and suggest that her NDE occurred under general anesthesia when the brain was still active, hours before Reynolds underwent hypothermic cardiac arrest.[7][8][9]

Anesthesiologist Gerald Woerlee analyzed the case, and concluded that Reynolds' ability to perceive events during her surgery was a result of "anesthesia awareness".[10]
So there is still a rational explanation as to why/how that happened & I think you will find any examples we bring up there will always be both materialist & metaphysical explanations for whatever it is we're trying to explain. I would just encourage you & others to think about which explanations make more sense.

A simple episode of awareness whilst under anasthesia (which happens a lot btw) vs the existence of an afterlife & metaphysical astral universe. The simplest explanation is usually correct. The case is definitely not indisputable proof as you claimed it was.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WAITING TO DIE and sserafim
hibikikyuxx

hibikikyuxx

Student
Oct 17, 2023
179
This is blatantly untrue
How?
It is on you to provide the evidence for your claims
Same goes for SovietSuicide when it comes to the"consciousness coming from the brain" claim.
Who are these "top scientists"
Here you go:

Dr. Alfred Russel Wallace (1823-1913) – Co-originator with Charles Darwin of the natural selection theory of evolution: "My position is that the phenomena of communicating with those who crossed over - in their entirety do not require further confirmation. They are proved quite as well as facts are proved in other sciences."

Sir William Barrett (1844-1925) – Professor of physics at the Royal College of Science in Dublin for 37 years, "I'm absolutely convinced of the fact that those who once lived on earth can and do communicate with us. It is hardly possible to convey to the inexperienced an adequate idea of the strength and cumulative force of the evidence (for the afterlife)."

Sir William Crookes (1832-1919) – A physicist and chemist, the most decorated scientist in his time. He discovered the element thallium and was a pioneer in radioactivity. "It is quite true that a connection has been set up between this world and the next."

Sir Oliver Lodge (1851-1940) – Professor of physics at University College in Liverpool, England and later principal at the University of Birmingham, Lodge achieved world fame for his pioneering work in electricity, including the radio and spark plug. "I tell you with all my strength of the conviction which I can muster that we do persist, that people still continue to take an interest in what is going on, that they know far more about things on this earth than we do, and are able from time to time to communicate with us…I do not say it is easy, but it is possible, and I have conversed with my friends just as I can converse with anyone in this audience now."

The afterlife has also been demonstrated by 100 years of experimental research into quantum physics, including the experiments that won the Nobel Prize in 2022.

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness." - Max Planck, Nobel Prize-winning physicist and the father of quantum theory.

"The atoms or elementary particles themselves are not real; they form a world of potentialities or possibilities rather than one of things or facts." - Werner Heisenberg, winner of the Nobel Prize in physics.

"Observations not only disturb what is to be measured, they produce it." - Pascual Jordan, physicist, early contributor to quantum theory.

This means death cannot end consciousness because consciousness is fundamental and is what causes all of our experiences, including that of having a physical body in a physical world. Consciousness has been demonstrated fundamental, not a secondary effect caused by "matter" and "energy," neither of which exist outside of consciousness.
I could be wrong, but you failed to back up your claims with anything verifiable
Happy now?
which unfortunately is so common with these afterlife pushers
Except that I'm not religious, while these "afterlife pushers" you're talking about are religious and believe in a magic man living in the sky or whatever, which is obviously absurd. They don't care enough to properly inform themselves. The bible (a fairy tale story) is the only thing they care about, they don't care about consciousness at all.
You believe in the afterlife, I ask you this, what is the nature of your afterlife? And if you are inspired by specific theology, what do you pull from?
I never outright said that I believe in the afterlife. I'm open-minded. I believe in universal consciousness/consciousness being a fundamental property, yes, but unless I ctb, I can't say that I'm 100% certain about what to expect.
We don't afford intellectual respect to people, that's an appeal to authority fallacy, we afford it to their arguments.
Fine.
Lol the difference is I didn't cite it as 'proof' of aliens. I cited it as proof that people claimed they had experiences of aliens and that it was likely bs
My point is that you're using obvious fake memories like alien abductions to disregard my memory as a toddler even though my parents themselves remember that it happend and many people have memories from back when they were toddlers.
Well, really just to bring it to your attention as you claimed you never heard of it before
I really never heard of that before. I appreciate you bringing it to my attention it though.
The rest I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether we can "locate" consciousness cause we're going in circles on that
That's fair.
You did bring up the Pam Reynolds case which is fair enough, I would certainly count it as evidence in your favour but as you can read on the page:
Reynolds' near-death experience has been put forward as evidence supporting an afterlife by proponents such as cardiologist Michael Sabom in his book Light and Death. According to Sabom, Reynolds' experience occurred during a period in which her brain had completely ceased to function.

Critics say that the amount of time during which Reynolds was "flatlined" is generally misrepresented and suggest that her NDE occurred under general anesthesia when the brain was still active, hours before Reynolds underwent hypothermic cardiac arrest.

Anesthesiologist Gerald Woerlee analyzed the case, and concluded that Reynolds' ability to perceive events during her surgery was a result of "anesthesia awareness". So there is still a rational explanation as to why/how that happened & I think you will find any examples we bring up there will always be both materialist & metaphysical explanations for whatever it is we're trying to explain. I would just encourage you & others to think about which explanations make more sense.

The problem with that claim is that Reynold did not only hear, she accurately saw what they did to her. She saw the tools that she has never seen before and how they were used on her, how they shaved her head, how the procedure went. She could tell loads of things with vision. There is simply no physical explanation for this, her blood was drained from her head, all her brainwaved flattened. Her body was freezed down. She had plugs for her ears eith beeping sounds, so she couldn't hear even if she were physically consious. She was dead. Every monitor said she was dead.

 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: finalrequiem, sserafim, Abandoned Character and 1 other person
SovietSuicide

SovietSuicide

Student
Jan 8, 2022
100
Thank you for being cool, these debates often become personal.

Btw I wasn't dismissing your particular memories, I just dismiss memories of metaphysical things in general because I believe metaphysics is impossible although I think a lot of concepts that come from metaphysics can be adapted to materialism it's just people don't because they get attached to the belief system as a whole or they dismiss materialism because it's boring to read 20th century philosophers.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: sserafim and hibikikyuxx
Abandoned Character

Abandoned Character

(he./him)
Mar 24, 2023
256
I am not being very rigorous in my statement, but I am using my understanding of modern academia. If this were "proven," as you say, there would be no question in science in the existence of an afterlife. However, you go to any respected university and propose this idea to its intellectuals and you will be laughed out of the room. I am not denying the pausibility of an "afterlife" (to be honest that term has a great deal of baggage, which brought me to believe you to be far less level headed than you actually are, to which I apologize), I am refuting your confidence in the assertion that an afterlife is "proven" in science. Do you understand the effort, rigor, let alone the funds that is necessary to assert an idea is "proven"? Frankly, I wouldn't be so brazen if you simply said "supported by evidence," which is naturally a weaker claim than "proven." Of course, you would have to provide that evidence in an honest discussion, which all you have given is the words of scientists--no data, no experiment, no methods, just words (these words hold more weight than John Smith down the street and are definitely interesting to ponder, but they are still just words and insufficient to convince anyone of anything).

I compare this to something like general relativity, or, as you say, quantum mechanics, which are both well-respected formalisms within their field. So well respected that we are teaching their basics to children in high school, or even middle school, whereas the "afterlife" is only relegated to the humanities, if that.

Ultimately, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Even this instance of Pam Reynolds, while interesting, is not enough to prove a reality-warping metaphysic. Also, you bring up Heisenberg, you may find another quote of his intriguing, stating "the first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you." Einstein felt a similar notion of the all-powerful, and so have I--although maybe not to such a poignant degree--in my own studies. Perhaps this "afterlife," or universal consciousness, is accessible through a realm that science cannot access, i.e. the hard problem of consciousness. It is definitely a fun topic to ponder and I appreciate your ideas and endurance, I merely take issue with the misrepresentation of the science.
 
  • Like
  • Informative
Reactions: SovietSuicide, WAITING TO DIE, hibikikyuxx and 1 other person
Ksmиda

Ksmиda

Have I died too soon or lived too long?
Oct 23, 2023
187
Hopefully some kind of heaven, where you are happy forever, doing the things you love
 
  • Like
  • Love
  • Yay!
Reactions: sserafim, Vorty30, Csmith8827 and 1 other person
Vorty30

Vorty30

Member
Oct 10, 2023
6
in addition to half life, I hope Gothic will also play when my light goes out 🙏
Me and you both, person of choice. Me and you both. Add another Doom game to that and we are all set.
 
  • Hugs
Reactions: hungariancorpse

Similar threads

divinemistress36
Replies
36
Views
900
Suicide Discussion
uniqueusername4
uniqueusername4
C
Replies
35
Views
864
Suicide Discussion
pulleditnearlyoff
P
RadiantNumber
Replies
11
Views
253
Suicide Discussion
RadiantNumber
RadiantNumber
yariousvamp
Replies
19
Views
666
Suicide Discussion
Cute_&_Loving
C