Discussion What do you think about the SaSu ideology and community? Why is SaSu important? Is SaSu pro-suicide?

[developic]

Ahh, ahh, let me talk first about what I think of SaSu.

---

1. Its ideology is primarily based on the idea that people shouldn't have to conceal their suicidal feelings in their minds and suffer slowly inside. Its community is respectful towards other people's beliefs (except for a few people who are like cockroaches on a white floor), and its moderators and admins are really good and well-trained.

---

2. SaSu is important because it provides a place for people who feel lost in this endless world, offering hope in a place like SaSu.

---

3

 

[rainwillneverstop]

so u made the conclusion sasu is pro suicide based on a single post from 6 years ago?
ok.

 

[developic]

so u made the conclusion sasu is pro suicide based on a single post from 6 years ago?
ok.

Yes.....

sometime between 2019 and 2020, though I don't know the exact date of the post—I saw someone encouraging another person to commit suicide. I've seen people die by suicide because

 

[NearlyIrrelevantCake]

Dismantling the allegation that we're pro-suicide.

Most members who have been active in this forum for a while know that the media has blatantly misrepresented the purpose and philosophy of this forum for years. For example, let's take a look at these articles here...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[Nightfoot]

I wouldn't call SaSu pro-suicide, but rather pro-expression.

 

[eve2004]

Yes.....

I agree with your 2 statements about your thought on SaSu. However I disagree that it's "pro". Thousands of people here have lived another day just because they had an outlet to express themselves. I myself have been often on the edge and got through rough times by interaction with the people here, venting, etc. I'm sure many people can say the same.

 

[Pale_Rider]

Cockaroaches one a white floor. Har har.

 

[AreWeWinning]

Ahh, ahh, let me talk first about what I think of SaSu.

---

1. Its ideology is primarily based on the idea that people shouldn't have to conceal their suicidal feelings in their minds and suffer slowly inside. Its community is respectful towards other people's beliefs (except for a few people who are like cockroaches on a white floor), and its moderators and admins are really good and well-trained.

---

2. SaSu is important because it provides a place for people who feel lost in this endless world, offering hope in a place like SaSu.

---

3

For the sake of argument and as a thought experiment, I think SaSu is pro-life.

From the viewpoint of pro-lifers, there is no such thing as pro-choice. Anything that might allow, or God forbid, help a person commit suicide – even if it's just providing factual information – should be demonised and banned. Anything that is not actively pro-life is automatically pro-suicide. There is no tolerance, no middle-ground. So, it's understandable why some people might view SaSu as pro-suicide.

But looking at it from the other side, what would you call a place where saying "you should get better" or "don't do it" is always allowed, but saying "I think you would be better off by ending it" is always forbidden. Or, a place where suggesting methods for recovery and overcoming suicidal thoughts is allowed unconditionally, while suggesting methods for suicide is not allowed unless the other person asks specific questions. Opinions in favour of life are allowed, but opinions in favour of suicide are not. This is, by definition, pro-life.

Even if encouraging suicide were allowed (it is not) – as you suggested in your original post before it was edited – that would still count as pro-choice in my view, as long as encouraging recovery were allowed as well. It would be pro-choice regarding choice of options, actions, and opinions.

I'm not criticising SaSu. I understand it's the way it is for legal reasons, and it's a necessary compromise. What I'm saying is that there are always two sides to every coin. You can make the argument that it's pro-suicide, but I can make the same argument that it's pro-life.

 

[Satori Komeiji]

The day I see a substantial amount of SaSu members cheering on a member when they choose to take their own life or see a substantial amount of members saying that the solution to another members issues is suicide, I will say SaSu is pro-suicide. Neither of these things in my limited time on this forum have been anywhere close to happening from what I can see.

 

[JesiBel]

Every individual on this forum has their own ideologies, so I think it wouldn't be appropriate to label an entire community under a single term.

In my opinion, it is a place of information and support.

There are rules to maintain order and coexistence, and the safety of each user.

Each person decides what to do without being under anyone's influence. But also it is correct to warn when someone is thinking of doing something risky, incorrect, or hasty/impulsive.

Some will come looking for an escape from this world (soon or in the future), and others will come looking for someone who understands, accompanies and listens to them.

I prefer not to use labels, it's a place to connect with others on more sensitive/personal topics.

 

[fedup1982]

Idk really. My ADHD makes it hard to thoroughly read all of SaSu including the stickied thread about "dismantling allegations". But what I do know is echo chambers, although comforting for its participants, can be dangerous, and everyone should be aware of that. Every admin. Every user. Think incels. They started as an echo chamber and progressed towards being criminals and stuff. Who WANTS to be like an incel?? "The price of peace is eternal vigilence" or something like that.

Although I haven't seen anyone encourage suicide, enabling suicide is shaky ground legally.

Pro choice is a nice concept, I just wish the risks justified the benefits.

There are so many vulnerable people here, and I wouldn't want to see anyone go to prison for venting or feeling part of a compassionate community, but it's hard to rule out that eventuality. So far I do not know of any instances of anyone here ending up in prison, but I do know one supplier of SN has gotten life time sentences and that's just in one country, multiple want him extradited for the same reasons. So doing things like sharing links to SN suppliers could be the next step if prosecution services decide it's worth targeting people who share the links. So my advice would be don't do it. Unfortunately that limits the use of this forum for some people.

Perhaps instead we should put more effort into campaigning for services like MAID in our own countries and go down the legally squeaky clean route od euthanasia

 

[amerie]

I've said my opinions on this site quite a bit, but not in a way that's organized.

I do think that the media over exaggerates how dangerous this site is, it can take years to find a method and most people just need a non judgmental space to vent or share politics. I really wish normal people took the time to get out of their echo chamber of "no all suicide discussions are bad" and "they're all evil or depressed" and realized why we're in this state. I also think that a lot of social media platforms like Reddit are heavily censored and you can't express yourself properly or else people will attack you but I feel like we can all unite and have respectful discussions (most of the time.)

That being said, this site can also get dangerous. I feel like I've become a lot more cynical from being here and I'm quite addicted to this site, and I feel like here, with any place, it can become an echo chamber and some members shame others for not being "serious" enough about wanting to die or whatever or say that ALL life has no purpose and people are crazy for enjoying life.

 

[TAW122]

I don't think SaSu is pro-suicide/pro-CTB at all. It is pro-choice, meaning that the philosophy of SaSu is for people to have an open dialogue and constructive conversation about the topic of death, CTB, and what not without judgment or censorship. Then ultimately, it depends on the individual to decide for themselves if they wish to CTB or not and nobody on here is to dictate that for anyone. CTB is a personal decision and only the individual themselves can decide.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I believe it's firmly pro choice. I would however say the suicide discussion page can be anti- pro-life. But then, is that really so unreasonable? The rest of the internet is there if someone is looking for saccharine platitudes and helplines.

Really though- if someone sounds unsure here, I'd bet on the majority of people pushing them in the direction of recovery, not suicide. We're not here to convert people.

Sure, people express themselves in a negative way a lot but, that's not the same thing as trying to convince everyone that suicide is their best choice too.

I'm not sure how many wildly optimistic people find their way to a suicide forum in the first place. An awful lot of people stumble on this place when their situation has become so bad, they are looking for methods. So- I'd say a lot have made up their mind before they get here.

Some people do find it too negative though and, decide to move over to recovery or, leave the forum all together even and, as far as I've witnessed, we all wish them well. We don't try and persuade them to stay and die with us!

But sure, it's an echo chamber of sorts. I think in part that's why it's comforting though. It's exhausting either having to hide or defend our true feelings in the real world.

 

[lament.]

I'd say some of the people on this site are definitely pro-suicide rather than pro-choice, but the overwhelming vocal majority are definitely pro-choice. Most noticably on the pro-suicide side there are some anti-natalist threads that pop up every now and again which imo mostly act as an echo chamber on that topic, but if that's how people want to vent then that's fair to them and I usually try to just avoid those threads unless the original poster is actually asking for other peoples opinions on the topic.

As a whole though, this community is definitely extremely helpful for suicidal people and I truly believe that it does far more help than harm. I could write literal paragraphs about what this site actually does to help people emotionally and mentally, but people reading this looking from the outside in wouldn't understand that, so I will just state the objective fact that this site limits harm from failed suicides (most noticeably ODs) and majorly discourages trying to CTB if you are not ready or are doing it in the spur of the moment with a method that's destined to fail and cause an unnecessary trip to the hospital or irreparable harm.

 

[R. A.]

I could wax poetic about "identity" regarding what any group of people as massive, disjointed and unorganized "is" or even "can be", but the fact of the matter is simply: there is the official position as stated by "the website" and there is the position of those who run the site - and then there are positions that are expressed or implied by the membership.

Unless you can chronicle every single post and come up with percentages, which to a degree would involve inference because not everyone outright says "I am ___", it going to depend a lot on how you spend your time here.

After I joined and was more in the darker areas and for longer, it was pretty fucking clear that a substantial and/or prominent subset of people weren't just pro-suicide but fully pro-death. Anti-life. Misguided humans who believe that because of their own unique negative human experience, all human life (or all life in general in some cases) was awful and would be better to not exist. I don't have spoons now to get into the sheer hubris of such a position (let alone the inherent incorrectness).

Some of these users were vocal and prolific as fuck. Some were very quick to espouse this on short sad quip threads from newer members who might be open to that influence more than others (I was literally in this position at a point). A thought experiment: if you condensed SaSu into a club of 100 people, 3 of whom ran it and did admin, 7 of whom were the most talkative and made a lot of posters and shit and were vehemently pro-death, while the remaining 90 were much more quiet and somewhere between pro-freedom of choice and kinda sorta pro-suicide in equalish numbers ... what would your impression of it be?

Again: it depends where you spend your time here. Nowadays, I don't enter the Suicide Discussion forum and engage with its some of its content if I notice someone I follow engages with something I find interesting, or if in the "unanswered posts" list there's a tender thread that hasn't been given any attention. Otherwise I do other stuff. This has changed my subjective impression greatly and it's much easier and more pleasant for me to be here now.
But I remember how it was before.