Discussion What do you think about Antinatalism?

[aneurysm]

You have some strange views.

I mostly refer to America. Houses are literally and and figuratively made of cardboard (figurative with all the property taxes for the price you pay). Have you been to other parts of the world? We use concrete.

carboard houses and fake people.

It's because America isn't a country, it's a business. Even people's personality is standardized for mass production in capitalist America.

I believe that procreation is wrong.

I disagree with the prémisses of your reasoning. I don't believe that death is the end of procreation. I see death as a form of "life" that has the potential to happen infinitely. Therefore, death somewhat leads to procreation too. Even physicists and mathematicians can't disagree with this (and especially not them).

Being amongst the most accepting societies in the world?

Look at what is happening to America because of the leftists? Their "openess" and "accepting" nature lead to disaster for them and now the whole world has gone insane because of them.

Stupidity isn't the same thing as acceptance. Becoming overly open to the point of self-destruction is called decadence in my language. Prostitution isn't a virtue.

would stone them for having differing sexualities

Well, you have a point.

 

[quicksand]

I mostly refer to America. Houses are literally and and figuratively made of cardboard (figurative with all the property taxes for the price you pay). Have you been to other parts of the world? We use concrete.



It's because America isn't a country, it's a business. Even people's personality is standardized for mass production in capitalist America.



I disagree with the prémisses of your reasoning. I don't believe that death is the end of procreation. I see death as a form of "life" that has the potential to happen infinitely. Therefore, death somewhat leads to procreation too. Even physicists and mathematicians can't disagree with this (and especially not them).


Look at what is happening to America because of the leftists? Their "openess" and "accepting" nature lead to disaster for them and now the whole world has gone insane because of them.

Stupidity isn't the same thing as acceptance. Becoming overly open to the point of self-destruction is called decadence in my language. Prostitution isn't a virtue.



Well, you have a point.

I'm not American. In Europe, houses are built well.

And where are you seeing being 'accepting to the point of self-destruction'? You literally have posts about coming to terms with your sexuality, yet you think it's disgusting you should have a place to live as what you are?

Prostitution isn't a virtue, yet worse are countries that force a child to marry their rapist. In addition, the implications around being accepted into heaven by 72 virgins doesn't seem at all virtuous either, does it?

 

[aneurysm]

Prostitution isn't a virtue, yet worse are countries that force a child to marry their rapist. In addition, the implications around being accepted into heaven by 72 virgins doesn't seem at all virtuous either, does it?

remind me who created the atomic bombs, killed the most people in war, created mass destruction weapons, who is destroying the earth and polluting the air and the water and the food and animals? who is destroying the human body's autonomy by making it dependant to drugs? who has created the ideology of capitalism that value machines over humans?who has the most case of depression despite being the wealthiest? Who is brainwashing girls into being skinny and having a perfect body? Who is sponsoring the suffering of kids and people in developed countries for fast fashion and make up? Who is responsible for the modern form or slavery and mind control (reducing humans to production machines). WHO.

you need to develop some humility and decency. Accept that something is deeply wrong with the Western way.

yes, every human civilisation is guilty of hurting others, but the west has taken everything out of proportion. Incomparable, unprecedented, unparalleled level of cruelty and egoism, masked behind a warm and curteous smile with so called good intentions (terrifying level of self-deception).
and not so long ago, the west used to practice child marriage too, it's not as evil as everything the west has done/is doing, (it's only recently that society has changed due to all the industrial changed, that rendered things like child marriage and patriarchy obsolete for the west, and progressively for the world., stop acting like these practices are inherently evil and not simple social constructs, it's pure propaganda).

 

[quicksand]

remind me who created the atomic bombs, killed the most people in war, created mass destruction weapons, who is destroying the earth and polluting the air and the water and the food and animals? who is destroying the human body's autonomy by making it dependant to drugs? who has created the ideology of capitalism that value machines over humans?who has the most case of depression despite being the wealthiest? Who is brainwashing girls into being skinny and having a perfect body? Who is sponsoring the suffering of kids and people in developed countries for fast fashion and make up? Who is responsible for the modern form or slavery and mind control (reducing humans to production machines). WHO.

you need to develop some humility and decency. Accept that something is deeply wrong with the Western way.

yes, every human civilisation is guilty of hurting others, but the west has taken everything out of proportion. Incomparable, unprecedented, unparalleled level of cruelty and egoism, masked behind a warm and curteous smile with so called good intentions (terrifying level of self-deception).
and not so long ago, the west used to practice child marriage too, it's not as evil as everything the west has done/is doing, (it's only recently that society has changed due to all the industrial changed, that rendered things like child marriage and patriarchy obsolete for the west, and progressively for the world., stop acting like these practices are inherently evil and not simple social constructs, it's pure propaganda).

Pure propaganda perfectly describes whatever you're being fed. Slavery and mind control? Come on... Every side thinks their own form of propaganda is the truth, so that's something you have to accept when you spout all these things too.

And saying we need to develop 'humility and decency' is laughable.

I know there are many, many things wrong with Western countries, and many, many things wrong with the rest of the world. But to say that the things wrong with your area is 'just a social' construct while the West is because it and everyone inside it is evil means you're just licking up pure propaganda.

I think I'm done with this discussion anyway. There's no point arguing with someone that's staring down the idea of literally being stoned with 'but West bad'.

 

[aneurysm]

Pure propaganda perfectly describes whatever you're being fed. Slavery and mind control? Come on... Every side thinks their own form of propaganda is the truth, so that's something you have to accept when you spout all these things too.

And saying we need to develop 'humility and decency' is laughable.

I know there are many, many things wrong with Western countries, and many, many things wrong with the rest of the world. But to say that the things wrong with your area is 'just a social' construct while the West is because it and everyone inside it is evil means you're just licking up pure propaganda.

I think I'm done with this discussion anyway. There's no point arguing with someone that's staring down the idea of literally being stoned with 'but West bad'.

I do admit that I'm slightly biased haha

I recommend getting yourself an MRI scan, if nothing else works.

 

[demuic]

I believe strongly in antinatalism (and efilism) as I've yet to hear a persuasive argument against this perspective. It's very misunderstood though, and given that it goes against biological and societal pressures, it'll never become widespread. Rather, antinatalists are often mocked as "crazy," "depressed," "edgelords," or are told to "get off their high horse."

While this may sound extreme to some, I believe procreation is the most cruel, sadistic, and selfish thing anyone could ever do. It's akin to murder because both acts result in the death of another person, and in some ways, to have children is even worse because it opens the door to all the pain in existence. The origin of all the hurt you, I, or anyone else will ever experience is our births. It's destruction through creation.

To be clear, I'm not saying that all parents cruel and selfish sadists, and my intention is not to insult those who have created children. On the contrary, I believe many parents have good intentions, love their children, and don't wish to harm them in any way, but it's an irrefutable fact that to procreate is to inflict a lifetime of suffering on another. For this, there is no good justification.

When it comes down to it, procreation is a true tragedy in every sense of the word.

Yep, it's extremely misunderstood, as evidenced by whenever this topic comes up.

There's not really much convincing that can be done. You either inherently understand and accept the tenets of antinatalism, or you don't. For me, it was something apparent from a young age. From an evolutionary and social standpoint, there is too much programming for the average person to leap over.

I do see the development of consciousness as the most tragic thing to have ever occurred.

Regardless, humanity will be wiped out eventually.

In the mean time, I hope more human beings will stop to actually consider what the act of creating a human life entails, rather than just doing it because that's what everybody else is doing, or because it's an accident, or because they want a slave or a punching bag. Unfortunately, it's not likely to happen.

 

[Nexey]

It's silly. The main argument behind anti-natalism is that you can't have happiness without suffering, therefore it's better to give up both to prevent the ill effects of one.

Something I've noticed from browsing around anti-natalist communities is that a disproportionate amount of the members are clinically depressed. Of course a depressed person is going to think that the suffering they face isn't worth living through for the few upsides.

Here's the thing about non-mentally ill people, okay. They basically live in a completely different world from us. Given how so few of them understand depression and suicidal ideation even when faced with hardships, I think it's safe to say that the whole assumption of "pain > joy" likely doesn't apply to them. Otherwise, anti-natalism wouldn't have nearly as much pushback.

 

[TwoTenEightyEight]

it's pretty confusing to see them try to justify the preference to raise a child in a part of the world that would stone them for having differing sexualities, for example.

You can't really know this for certain.

Perhaps the east and west think each other are "degenerate" in some way or another. There is good and bad everywhere and everyone has a worldview.

 

[summers]

I like when people have kids that are major fuck-ups and cost them money and stress. So I hope a lot of kids are born. Can't wish the same on me - got my vasectomy at 20 years old haha :)

I also like that my friends with kids always ask how I have the things I do and travel so much. I straight up tell them - no kids.

 

[Life sucks]

Life is inherently faulty. Maybe I could write a book or an encyclopedia about this shitty life but people will ignore it because they are just programmed and indoctrinated by tens of thousands of propaganda and oppression. Lets not talk about the dirt of humans as species and how they continued to exist by oppressing each other(e.g. killing and raping) and how they kill billions of animals every year.

Additionally, most controversial stuff like politics are just a distraction from the truth, nobody wants to mention how reproduction is the cause of all problems and conflicts.

Humans are superficial, they look at the outside only and never the inside, be it the body or the consciousness. Who wants to reproduce an inherently lonely consciousness that might suffer immensely? Who wants to reproduce a skull, a heart, a lung? The lung always needs oxygen, why trap someone into this? Constantly breathing and if that doesn't happen, it would be very brutal.

Also people ignore how reproduction is inherently misogynistic, both biologically and historically. Women are oppressed to accept the horrors of reproduction. To see an example of historical misogyny, look at the Chinese characters misogyny, 妻 is wife and that means someone is holding womans hair to show ownership, then she is forced to reproduce by propaganda and oppression which is shown in other characters. Look also at most bad words and derogatory terms and many of them target women in almost every culture and language.

There is the logical and mathematical aspect which means its only about pain and suffering but how life is a contradiction and universal goals are impossible to reach.

Finally, some people want to ignore because they are parents and think its an ad hominem which is not. The world is more than 7 billion and those are facts. One of the human problems is the ego. There is no problem if a parent discovered that life is wrong, humans aren't perfect but its possible to learn.



Antinatalist until my death/ctb and thats one of my few reasons of staying here. If there is something I want to say: Dont reproduce. and I'm putting my life on the line.

 

[lofticries]

My philosophy about this subject will always be 'you do you boo and i'ma do me'. I've known from a very young age kids aren't in my future ( with or without the mental illnesses). A clue for my parents (who still hold hope) should have been when I chose the stuffed kitty rather than the toy baby at the age of 5.