Firstly- I want to say that in no way do I mean this post to come across as offensive. I'm just curious.
Do you think gender dysphoria is biologically triggered? Can it be culturally triggered also? The same goes for sexual orientation- straight, gay, bi etc. Do you suppose we are born to be a certain way? Or, can we change as our experiences in life change us?
If it's biological- what do you think the causes may be? I remember one of my teachers saying that male fertility levels were being affected by the amount of contraceptive medication that eventually finds its way back into drinking water.
I mean- it makes a kind of sense really- the more there are of us on this planet and the more chemicals we use- not just drugs but chemicals in our food, food production and industrial production- the more unnatural crap ends up in our water, food and air. All of that stuff must be affecting us- and our reproductive functions. Not only in terms of gender and sexual orientation but overall development.
On a different subject, perhaps it's just because we have names for all these things now but it seems like just about everyone can diagnose themself with at least one mental illness. Do you suppose that too is all related to the amount of pollution in our environment and the unhealthy lifestyles we lead?
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Personally for me, it's a body hate thing. I absolutely hate the male body, but like the way the female body looks. I don't like the idea of being "handsome" and I'd prefer to be beautiful or pretty (physically anyways).
One could argue that I could transition, but given the fact that "T" has fucked my body up, it is way too late. I will never look flawlessly, and then there's also the issue of missing out on girlhood. ATP, it isn't worth it. IMO, the whole point of being female is to not have any remnants of being male. Otherwise if I liked having male features, I wouldn't be dysphoric in the first place.
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Personally for me, it's a body hate thing. I absolutely hate the male body, but like the way the female body looks. I don't like the idea of being "handsome" and I'd prefer to be beautiful or pretty (physically anyways).
One could argue that I could transition, but given the fact that "T" has fucked my body up, it is way too late. I will never look flawlessly, and then there's also the issue of missing out on girlhood. ATP, it isn't worth it. IMO, the whole point of being female is to not have any remnants of being male. Otherwise if I liked having male features, I wouldn't be dysphoric in the first place.
I'm so sorry. That has to be awful to live with. I'm curious though- if you feel open to talk about it that is. Have you always hated your male body? Did it come on in childhood?
I'm so sorry. That has to be awful to live with. I'm curious though- if you feel open to talk about it that is. Have you always hated your male body? Did it come on in childhood?
Gender Dysphoria is treated via HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy) to align physical features to their psychological features as well as various surgeries such as facial feminization surgery, genital realignment surgery and top surgery / breast augmentation (not trans exclusive but common among trans women).
Gender dysphoria is an umbrella term for various types of Dysphoria which can include; biological (appearance), psychological (the persons own perception of themselves; it can manifest when their inner voice doesn't match their psychological sense of self) and social (when other do not see the person as they see themselves; for example misgendering, deadnaming, mentions of AGAB etc).
A lot can trigger dysphoria (think of it like short episodes of extreme discomfort with oneself). I can only describe it as a deep-rooted disgust for oneself; absolutely isolating and torturous - the knowledge of not being able to change yourself in a way you see fit is agonizing.
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As the others said this is agonizing to live with it, is like being stuck in a prison where everyone that doesn't understand you, doesn't treat you like you want them to, i discover the meaning here in Sasu but i had Dysphoria por more than 10 years... i really hate how people treat me, i hate my name which they call often, and really really hate mirrors you know why don't you haha...
this is more often a hate relationship between how you see yourself and how you really are, i don't think there is a cure for it and even if i transition, already lost more time that i can count being a male and being treat as one in this society
"bornWrongSex" is right about how one would feel and i feel the same way he does about everything...
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Not sure how to describe having gender dysphoria, but I feel very distressed about how I appear and look and what sex I was assigned by birth. The way I think of myself isn't what I actually appear as and it makes me disgusted of myself.
I think well, for me, I probably saw people I wanted to be as and realized that I feel discomfort with myself. Maybe the environment or culture you're in can affect you. Even if I transition I don't think I would be happy about it either. Very much in between, biologically a female but I wish I was a man. I wish that I looked more masculine and handsome rather than pretty. But then sometimes I want to feel pretty but I don't look pretty, I look masculine. Sometimes I wish I could just cut off my breasts with a pair of scissors or maybe have a male's genital but sometimes I'm okay with it.
in short, I hate how I look and who I'm. I don't think anything would help me to be satisfied because in my mind I look like someone else when in reality I don't and that's where my frustration comes from. And also seeing some people triggers it more for me.
Where I come from the average height of females is 4'11" and for males, it's 5'3" so where I'm from I'm pretty tall enough (5'7") and sometimes I wish I was small and then sometimes I wish I was more taller because except my country, most countries the height 5'7" isn't that much. It's hard for me to describe it honestly. And I might really never find the way to actually love myself as who I am.
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this is just the ramblings of an idiot so bare with me and dont take any of what i say as like educated facts im just word vomiting lol
gender dysphoria can manifest in many different ways (as brilliantly described by NoLoveNoHope previously) and i think each different way can be caused by different things, e.g. genetics, environment etc. and each different way is kind of like an ingredient in the soup that is Gender™ if that makes sense. like gender is not as simple as sex, where its certain chromosomes that determine either male, female or intersex (even that is a simplified version, sex is still quite a spectrum). gender is more complicated and has many more factors that can contribute to the final result, which in the end can still develop over time as the brain develops, unlike sex which is predetermined before birth. (i hope my basic understanding of biology is accurate lol) its not surprising that there are people whose gender doesnt align with their sex, bc theyre not connected biologically i dont think. its basically a roll of the dice whether ur gender and sex are aligned, and even then theres multiple ways that they can align, so you might feel they align in some ways but not in others, or no way at all, or in every way, if that makes sense. i think thanks to the internet and the ability to have more discussions about gender, its become more known so more people are able to identify why they feel certain ways about their gender/body etc. its not that trans people didnt exist before now, we just werent allowed to exist, so we were forced to pretend to be "normal" (cisgender). which terrifyingly enough is starting to happen again especially in america.
in my own experience, im autistic and have never understood the reason or logic behind gendering things/objects. like the idea of skirts being girl clothes and trousers being boy clothes just makes no fucking sense to me and never has. as a kid, i hated wearing skirts, not because they were "girly" bc i didnt even care about that, i just hated the feeling of wearing skirts and i still do. but other than that i never had the typical trans kid experience of being a "girl" but playing with trucks or "boy toys" i just played with whatever i could find, even a stick was a toy to me. i still enjoyed playing with dolls and stuffed toys and dressing up, but i also used to be jealous of the toys my brother got to play with and wished i could play with them too, like video games and cars and toy guns. i managed to play with girls at school bc thats just what naturally happened, youre a girl so you get sat next to girls/put in girl groups etc. but i also wanted to play with boys but for some reason when i tried to there were problems, either teachers telling me to stay with the girls, girls making fun of me, or the boys themselves being like "ew no i dont wanna play with u ur a girl" (granted i was autistic so i still struggled interacting with other kids but overall it was easier with girls just because i wouldnt get as much back lash).
my parents also got me a lot of pink stuff when i was very little, just bc thats apparently what you're supposed to do, and as a kid i didnt care bc pink was just another colour, but eventually as i got older i realised other people saw pink as a girly colour and gradually steered away from pink when i began to make my own choices around what i wanted to wear. i still think its a nice colour, and i wish ppl didnt associate it with the female sex so much bc pink is a colour it doesnt have a vagina, you know? i also had long hair as a kid, i think mostly bc my mum was obsessed with my hair, i had rly curly blonde hair and she was incredibly upset when i eventually cut it short and dyed it lol. but if it was up to me as a kid i probably wouldnt give a shit what kinda haircut i had bc it didnt mean anything to me, it was just hair.
anyway, as soon as puberty happened, thats when shit hit the fan for me. it suddenly became painfully obvious that i was "female" and thats when i realised i had gender dysphoria. because before puberty i had a flat chest and all the kids had the same high pitched voices and no facial hair, so we kind of all fit in, and i honestly believe if there was no adult influence around gender stereotypes that all kids no matter what sex could get along. but as soon as the boys start getting deeper voices and facial hair and the girls start developing boobs and hips then it becomes much more obvious and harder to kind of hide behind the androgyny, and gender stereotypes become even more forced upon you. tbh, i still dont see the point in gender stereotypes, i think they just make life unnecessarily complicated, and forces people into boxes which just doesnt sit right with me. i sometimes wish gender wasnt a thing and we could all just be treated the same despite wether we had a dick or a vagina, but then that would obviously be way more boring bc gender can be a really fun thing to play with, its just when its decided for you and forced upon you that it becomes less fun.
im not sure what caused me to have such a negative reaction to the way my body developed during puberty, and i wonder if i wasnt autistic if i might have realised i had gender dysphoria at an earlier age.
i wish there was more research into it, bc it really is interesting to me. i love learning about how gender identity has been a thing in different cultures for thousands of years, because its obvious that its a part of our biology and something we need to be aware of and not ignore. like its not just trans ppl that have gender identities, literally everyone does (as far as cis and trans ppl go, idk if theres other kinds of people who maybe dont experience gender at all, that would be cool to learn about if its a thing). gender and sex are two completely different things and in my opinion are completely separate and should be treated as separate. sex is like your skin tone and the colour of your hair, where as gender is more kind of like your personality, it develops and isnt always static.
i hope at least some of this made sense, apologies for such a long reply and i rly appreciate if anyones taken the time to read this, you didnt have to lol. if anything ive said is wrong pls do correct me, i love learning. i just find these kinds of discussions really interesting and important, not only personally bc its nice to get my thoughts out but also for future generations who will most likely know way more than us about gender eventually. any kind of discussion is important. right ill shut up now i need to stop adding to this its way too fucking long lmao
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I like how this thread shifts from "what causes" to "what is". Which is cool so I'll go with it.
Before realizing it was gender dysphoria (or sort of), it was self-hatred-related things, e.g. thinking I have zero self-worth or don't deserve any of the good things. The classic "pick the female character in video games" trope fits to me as well.
Then it turned into interest in genderbend, while all of the above remains. It was definitely gender dysphoria, but after cracking my egg the result was not much different.
Maybe there are deeper issues than that.
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this is just the ramblings of an idiot so bare with me and dont take any of what i say as like educated facts im just word vomiting lol
gender dysphoria can manifest in many different ways (as brilliantly described by NoLoveNoHope previously) and i think each different way can be caused by different things, e.g. genetics, environment etc. and each different way is kind of like an ingredient in the soup that is Gender™ if that makes sense. like gender is not as simple as sex, where its certain chromosomes that determine either male, female or intersex (even that is a simplified version, sex is still quite a spectrum). gender is more complicated and has many more factors that can contribute to the final result, which in the end can still develop over time as the brain develops, unlike sex which is predetermined before birth. (i hope my basic understanding of biology is accurate lol) its not surprising that there are people whose gender doesnt align with their sex, bc theyre not connected biologically i dont think. its basically a roll of the dice whether ur gender and sex are aligned, and even then theres multiple ways that they can align, so you might feel they align in some ways but not in others, or no way at all, or in every way, if that makes sense. i think thanks to the internet and the ability to have more discussions about gender, its become more known so more people are able to identify why they feel certain ways about their gender/body etc. its not that trans people didnt exist before now, we just werent allowed to exist, so we were forced to pretend to be "normal" (cisgender). which terrifyingly enough is starting to happen again especially in america.
in my own experience, im autistic and have never understood the reason or logic behind gendering things/objects. like the idea of skirts being girl clothes and trousers being boy clothes just makes no fucking sense to me and never has. as a kid, i hated wearing skirts, not because they were "girly" bc i didnt even care about that, i just hated the feeling of wearing skirts and i still do. but other than that i never had the typical trans kid experience of being a "girl" but playing with trucks or "boy toys" i just played with whatever i could find, even a stick was a toy to me. i still enjoyed playing with dolls and stuffed toys and dressing up, but i also used to be jealous of the toys my brother got to play with and wished i could play with them too, like video games and cars and toy guns. i managed to play with girls at school bc thats just what naturally happened, youre a girl so you get sat next to girls/put in girl groups etc. but i also wanted to play with boys but for some reason when i tried to there were problems, either teachers telling me to stay with the girls, girls making fun of me, or the boys themselves being like "ew no i dont wanna play with u ur a girl" (granted i was autistic so i still struggled interacting with other kids but overall it was easier with girls just because i wouldnt get as much back lash).
my parents also got me a lot of pink stuff when i was very little, just bc thats apparently what you're supposed to do, and as a kid i didnt care bc pink was just another colour, but eventually as i got older i realised other people saw pink as a girly colour and gradually steered away from pink when i began to make my own choices around what i wanted to wear. i still think its a nice colour, and i wish ppl didnt associate it with the female sex so much bc pink is a colour it doesnt have a vagina, you know? i also had long hair as a kid, i think mostly bc my mum was obsessed with my hair, i had rly curly blonde hair and she was incredibly upset when i eventually cut it short and dyed it lol. but if it was up to me as a kid i probably wouldnt give a shit what kinda haircut i had bc it didnt mean anything to me, it was just hair.
anyway, as soon as puberty happened, thats when shit hit the fan for me. it suddenly became painfully obvious that i was "female" and thats when i realised i had gender dysphoria. because before puberty i had a flat chest and all the kids had the same high pitched voices and no facial hair, so we kind of all fit in, and i honestly believe if there was no adult influence around gender stereotypes that all kids no matter what sex could get along. but as soon as the boys start getting deeper voices and facial hair and the girls start developing boobs and hips then it becomes much more obvious and harder to kind of hide behind the androgyny, and gender stereotypes become even more forced upon you. tbh, i still dont see the point in gender stereotypes, i think they just make life unnecessarily complicated, and forces people into boxes which just doesnt sit right with me. i sometimes wish gender wasnt a thing and we could all just be treated the same despite wether we had a dick or a vagina, but then that would obviously be way more boring bc gender can be a really fun thing to play with, its just when its decided for you and forced upon you that it becomes less fun.
im not sure what caused me to have such a negative reaction to the way my body developed during puberty, and i wonder if i wasnt autistic if i might have realised i had gender dysphoria at an earlier age.
i wish there was more research into it, bc it really is interesting to me. i love learning about how gender identity has been a thing in different cultures for thousands of years, because its obvious that its a part of our biology and something we need to be aware of and not ignore. like its not just trans ppl that have gender identities, literally everyone does (as far as cis and trans ppl go, idk if theres other kinds of people who maybe dont experience gender at all, that would be cool to learn about if its a thing). gender and sex are two completely different things and in my opinion are completely separate and should be treated as separate. sex is like your skin tone and the colour of your hair, where as gender is more kind of like your personality, it develops and isnt always static.
i hope at least some of this made sense, apologies for such a long reply and i rly appreciate if anyones taken the time to read this, you didnt have to lol. if anything ive said is wrong pls do correct me, i love learning. i just find these kinds of discussions really interesting and important, not only personally bc its nice to get my thoughts out but also for future generations who will most likely know way more than us about gender eventually. any kind of discussion is important. right ill shut up now i need to stop adding to this its way too fucking long lmao
Thank you for such an interesting response. Yes- I totally agree with you that gender is a spectrum.
In some ways, I'm actually surprised that I'm neither trans nor gay- I've never identified particularly well with being female! I'd say I have at least as many male traits in me as female. I actually feel pretty lucky (and surprised- seeing as my upbringing was in other ways, quite strict) that I was free to play with boys toys. My Grandma (who brought me up) did try to get me to dress nicely- but that all went when I got the chance to choose.
I do also agree with you that being trans or being gay aren't new things. They likely have existed for a long time- it's just that people were even more pressured to keep it a secret back then. I realise some people still feel that pressure now- which must be awful.
Do you suppose it is more prevalent now though? It's the same question I have for mental illnesses (not that I'm saying being trans or gay is being mentally ill.) Are they more prevalent now- or, is it just that we have names to diagnose them with? I know neither question is all that easy to answer. I'm just curious though.
In some ways, I feel like we have become so obsessed with our own identities. Again- I don't know if that's a new thing. Maybe that's what being human is... I wonder if you get trans animals. You get homosexual acts in the animal kingdom. I think that one even baffles scientists. You'd imagine most animals mate solely for the sake of procreation- although there are some that do it for fun too- eg. dolphins.
I don't know really. I do find it interesting- how do we develop these different things? Is it something we were always biologically going to do- or, does it come about via life experience and culture?
I wouldn't say my dislike of femininity is genetic. Most of my relatives, especially female relatives seemed to be very feminine. I just really rejected the signs and certain traits of femininity I suppose when I was young. I think I probably saw them as weak (I'm not saying they are weak or- that other people are- it's just how I saw it I suppose.) I wouldn't say I have dysphoria though. I don't like being female but I don't have a strong desire to be male either. It is interesting though. I do feel deeply sorry for people who have dysphoria. It must be very distressing.
i think because we have names for things now people have been able to label themselves as is appropriate to how they feel. but i think the rate of different mental illnesses that are now relatively easy to label hasnt necessarily changed, theres always been mental illnesses and such, its just that people were forced to fit into the "normal" label to be able to function in society, and there was no education around mental health so we just didnt know they existed. i do wonder if the severity of the symptoms has increased, making it harder for people to force themselves to just get on with life despite them, although its probably more that society has become increasingly more difficult to get by in with any kind of mental illness. for example, my dad always mentions how when he was young he was able to just walk into a shop and ask for a job and hed get it, but now jobs are so much harder to get, so people with mental illnesses are especially affected by this, and instead of blaming the job market for becoming increasingly more difficult, we've begun to blame ourselves for being too mentally ill.
i think also just the way we live day to day has probably resulted in higher rates of mental illness or higher severity of mental illness. like humans arent meant to sit inside concrete boxes staring at screens all day, we're supposed to be in nature. as my dad would also say, he would spend most of his time after school outside as a kid, but now a days theres less and less places where kids or anyone really can just exist in nature for free, so we're kind of stuck to being confined inside and on our phones or computers, or being in loud cities surrounded by huge concrete buildings and pollution, which is objectively bad for our mental health and physical health. either way its obvious that there's something wrong with the way we live right now, its not sustainable. its possible that these things are more prevalent now, but i think its also the fact that theres more education and knowledge around them. same thing for gender identity, there used to be very little knowledge around it, and the western societal expectation of the perfect nuclear family probably resulted in a lot of people forcing themselves to stay in the closet or just not even question their identity as they probably thought everyone felt the same way as them.
i think as weve evolved to a point where (at least in western countries) safety is a lot less of a worry in terms of predators, food is much more readily available, shelter too, we've maybe been able to evolve our brains further philosophically, so we're becoming more able to think about our experience of life rather than how to survive if that makes sense, which inevitably brings more labels as we begin to question and look for reasons behind our experiences of life. as far as trans animals, i think thats probably unlikely, but i guess kind of impossible to figure out, as we dont know whether animals experience gender. that would definitely be interesting to research but probably very difficult if not impossible. i hope for the sake of the animals that they dont experience gender cuz that must be so confusing in addition to having to worry about survival and everything lol. also i think asking whether its genetics or environmental is maybe too polarising if that makes sense, i think its most likely a mixture of the two. its definitely interesting to think about.
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I would say no just like how being gay isn't widely considered more prevalent. I think it's just people are able to come out due to less stigma and more trans-inclusive spaces.
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