Help What about seeking God?

[dogemn]

If you've exhausted almost every option, nothing has worked for years and you're only becoming more depressed and more suicidal, yet you still want to try everything you can to stay alive because you don't want to cause your parents grief, could turning to God help in some way? Or is that just another path that won't work?

 

[Lost in a Dream]

God is evil so no, screw that bastard.

 

[Al_stargate]

Yeah could work but you have to find right spiritual path. And at some point you gotta actually find God, not just seek. I was heavily into spirituality for about a decade, meditated every day, and believe to have come across right path and met right spiritual teacher to guide me and it was amazing for about a decade until I fucked it up. Nothing is guaranteed, you might end up disapointed even after meeting God. But yeah can definitely help. I had so much good things happen to me.

 

[itsgone2]

Yes. Straying from God was my biggest mistake.
You could try a mass at a few churches. One may resonate more deeply with you.

 

[CarbonBased]

How can you say that? How can you not realize that God is the most evil bastard in all of existence. Your suffering and the suffering of everyone else is GOD'S FAULT 1000%

Are you saying that you are a theist, but believe that god is evil, or are you just saying that had he existed, he had to have been evil?

 

[Dot]

How can you say that? How can you not realize that God is the most evil bastard in all of existence. Your suffering and the suffering of everyone else is GOD'S FAULT 1000%

Relign = 1 of thse thngs tho whch hlps sme ppl & hrms othrs

& ppl all C Gd/gds diffrntly & = up t/ thm t/ dcide if follwng fth = rght fr thm

Slf hve sme trma frm chrch bt also stll cnsidr slf a Christn - = nt smethng tht u r slf cn dcide fr othr ppl

 

[Lost in a Dream]

Are you saying that you are a theist, but believe that god is evil, or are you just saying that had he existed, he had to have been evil?

I am a theist yes, and I hate God with all of the hatred I can possibly have.

 

[CarbonBased]

I am a theist yes, and I hate God with all of the hatred I can possibly have.

Ohh, that's cool. Are you like a gnostic or something?

 

[ZwartHartje]

Ohh, that's cool. Are you like a gnostic or something?

I hate god too - certainly the Abrahamic god. I gravitated towards Satanism in childhood already; nowadays it's way more complex but I'm still standing by it.

I agree with @Lost in a Dream that God is evil - at the very least partially evil, depending on the definition or interpretation of what is meant by "God."
I can't understand how people can believe that God is all love and goodness.
There are two main interpretations of "God", and neither can be love and goodness.

The first interpretation, as I said, would be the tyrant god of the mainstream religions, who created Man (not Woman) in his image to make the Earth subject unto him - yeah look how Man is ravaging the Earth, exploiting, enslaving and murdering all other species, invading and destroying their habitats, already having driven so many to extinction.
Seems to have been God's plan, so he's ok with this. He's a speciesist, a misogynist, a homophobe, and a tyrant.
There's the Book of Genesis - but where in that story did the Serpent actually "lie" to Adam and Eve? No harm came upon them from the act of eating the forbidden fruit and they did gain the knowledge of good and evil, all the harm only came from the wrath of God when he found out about it - I can't understand how someone can NOT see who is the evil tyrant in this story.

Then there is a second interpretation often used by people who are "spiritual but not religious", or in any case not members of any of the three mainstream, monotheistic religions. They identify God as "the All" or the Universe, or "Consciousness with a capital C'", or "Mind at Large" (as in "The Doors of Perception").
I can somewhat agree with this one but personally I'd never call it "God" because that term has always been reserved for the biblical tyrant, as explained above.
I do believe in the All, which is only logical: The All comprises all of existence, and there exists nothing that isn't part of the All, because the All couldn't be All if it didn't comprise all of existence, if there was still something else besides it.
This means the All also comprises all of consciousness - it is all of Consciousness.
It also contains all love and all goodness - but not only. Since it contains ALL of existence, it means it contains also all evil, all cruelty, all horrors and nightmarish things imaginable or unthinkable. The extremes of bliss and beauty as well as of torture and abomination.
The All is also impersonal.

This said, although I see everything in a more nuanced and agnostic way than I used to in my teenage, when appealing to some higher power, that would still be Satan-Lucifer to me. And there is in fact a kind of "gnostic Satanism". I know there is debate about which god or being the Gnostic "demiurge" is identified with, I know that some others believe he is Satan, but I (and some other Satanists) do believe he is Jehovah.

In any case, there exist no gods that aren't part of the All...

 

[CarbonBased]

I hate god too - certainly the Abrahamic god. I gravitated towards Satanism in childhood already; nowadays it's way more complex but I'm still standing by it.

I agree with @Lost in a Dream that God is evil - at the very least partially evil, depending on the definition or interpretation of what is meant by "God."
I can't understand how people can believe that God is all love and goodness.
There are two main interpretations of "God", and neither can be love and goodness.

The first interpretation, as I said, would be the tyrant god of the mainstream religions, who created Man (not Woman) in his image to make the Earth subject unto him - yeah look how Man is ravaging the Earth, exploiting, enslaving and murdering all other species, invading and destroying their habitats, already having driven so many to extinction.
Seems to have been God's plan, so he's ok with this. He's a speciesist, a misogynist, a homophobe, and a tyrant.
There's the Book of Genesis - but where in that story did the Serpent actually "lie" to Adam and Eve? No harm came upon them from the act of eating the forbidden fruit and they did gain the knowledge of good and evil, all the harm only came from the wrath of God when he found out about it - I can't understand how someone can NOT see who is the evil tyrant in this story.

Then there is a second interpretation often used by people who are "spiritual but not religious", or in any case not members of any of the three mainstream, monotheistic religions. They identify God as "the All" or the Universe, or "Consciousness with a capital C'", or "Mind at Large" (as in "The Doors of Perception").
I can somewhat agree with this one but personally I'd never call it "God" because that term has always been reserved for the biblical tyrant, as explained above.
I do believe in the All, which is only logical: The All comprises all of existence, and there exists nothing that isn't part of the All, because the All couldn't be All if it didn't comprise all of existence, if there was still something else besides it.
This means the All also comprises all of consciousness - it is all of Consciousness.
It also contains all love and all goodness - but not only. Since it contains ALL of existence, it means it contains also all evil, all cruelty, all horrors and nightmarish things imaginable or unthinkable. The extremes of bliss and beauty as well as of torture and abomination.
The All is also impersonal.

This said, although I see everything in a more nuanced and agnostic way than I used to in my teenage, when appealing to some higher power, that would still be Satan-Lucifer to me. And there is in fact a kind of "gnostic Satanism". I know there is debate about which god or being the Gnostic "demiurge" is identified with, I know that some others believe he is Satan, but I (and some other Satanists) do believe he is Jehovah.

In any case, there exist no gods that aren't part of the All...

I think you replied to the wrong person by mistake

 

[ZwartHartje]

I think you replied to the wrong person by mistake

Meant to reply to both of you actually. Since I hate god too I suppose you'd have asked the same question of me. :)

 

[Dot]

Thnk referrng bck t/ orignl questn tho no1 cn sy wht wll wrk & wht wll nt wrk

Slf knw ppl wh/ hve bn tramtisd frm relign & slf knw ppl wh/ hve bn savd b/ relign - s/ if r lookng fr thngs 2 try b4 finl rsort of ctb thn Y nt jst try & fnd out imo

 

[Pluto]

 

[CarbonBased]

Meant to reply to both of you actually. Since I hate god too I suppose you'd have asked the same question of me. :)

Oh, okay. I guess I should respond then, lol
So, I don't believe in any gods, but assuming some exist(s), there is a third option you're missing outside of them being evil or being literally everything. Have you considered that there is a god or gods, but they are not all-powerful or all-knowing? Maybe there is/are god(s) that is/are benevolent to humans, but do not have enough power to fix our problems?

Still, even if we talk about the Platonic idea of omnipotent & omniscient god, it is still up to debate - at least in my opinion - whether than god would have to be evil or not. What many people in this thread are discussing (without explicitly naming it) is their response to the Problem of Evil, which is an objection to the existence of god that is so commonly used that it has it's own name and a wikipedia page. I can't say that I agree with the objections to the Problem of Evil that I've heard, but I would still like to point out that there are many objections that have been discussed for decades if not centuries that might be worth looking into for somebody curious about the topic

 

[ZwartHartje]

Oh, okay. I guess I should respond then, lol
So, I don't believe in any gods, but assuming some exist(s), there is a third option you're missing outside of them being evil or being literally everything. Have you considered that there is a god or gods, but they are not all-powerful or all-knowing? Maybe there is/are god(s) that is/are benevolent to humans, but do not have enough power to fix our problems?

Still, even if we talk about the Platonic idea of omnipotent & omniscient god, it is still up to debate - at least in my opinion - whether than god would have to be evil or not. What many people in this thread are discussing (without explicitly naming it) is their response to the Problem of Evil, which is an objection to the existence of god that is so commonly used that it has it's own name and a wikipedia page. I can't say that I agree with the objections to the Problem of Evil that I've heard, but I would still like to point out that there are many objections that have been discussed for decades if not centuries that might be worth looking into for somebody curious about the topic

To be honest, I wouldn't consider that a third option but the same as my first one. The biblical god can't be all-powerful because he'd be just one of many, and that's even proven by one of his own commandments - the one that "thou should not worship any other gods besides him." Why would this commandment be needed if other gods didn't exist? And why would a god who was truly almighty require any commandments in the first place?

And both of the definitions of "God" which I laid out above - and which btw do not exclude each other, they can both be true - explain the Problem of Evil, which I therefore can't see as an objection to the existence of God but rather a consequence of his/its existence, either by the petty little tyrant god himself being evil and uninterested in counteracting the evil done by humans, or by the All encompassing all including evil.

Btw, "benevolent to humans" wouldn't necessarily be compatible with goodness since humans are mostly evil towards other species. Therefore "benevolent to humans" would mean mostly "benevolent to evil."

 

[girl_with_a_plan]

this meme is amazing!

If you have a personal relationship with a religious deity you keep in private? Sure, if it gives you solace. I've known people who've done that and the Bible was helpful for them. They also stayed out of churches and were creeped out by religious people. I find most religious people highly problematic so there's no way I would worship with them, let alone the problems with most religion.

 

[Hvergelmir]

...could turning to God help in some way?

Definitely, but so could any other faith.
I don't like the idea of, and don't think that the blind faith in a god is necessary. I think there's a lot to learn from religions and other teachings, without believing in the literal existence of superhuman beings.

The message of a prophet is a real message, whether the prophet actually existed or not.
Likewise the idea of God, and the mental framework is real, whether He actually exists or not.
(I'm probably a heretic, but that's how I reconcile the obvious power of religion, with science and common reality.)

 

[iguazo falls]

ive been considering some sort of spirituality again. my partner though is against it. i think a part of me just wants to feel connected to other people though, as i enjoy visiting churches but im not welcome due to my demographic. i like going to isolated places in nature and that is where i feel most connected to something else. i've had some pretty spiritual experiences but i'm struggling with doing those things while my partner is here because i feel like he'll just see me as willfully ignorant, and/or coping thru leaning into schizotypy. its weird because i feel like i'm living a double life within a double life. i escaped my religious family to be with my partner, and now i feel the need to go off and get into a covern or do some nonsensical shit away from my partner as part of my personal religion.

i think its worth trying, if it doesn't work out, you aren't obligated to give it much thought or energy. theres also a lot of interpretation of god/gods or some beleifs which don't involve god. your reality will show you what you will know soon i guess.

 

[Bitterly_Nostalgic]

I think it would only help someone who was truly open to the possibility of being part of a religion. If someone was trying to force themselves into it just for the sake of trying to deal with their problems, it would probably just make them unhappier in the end.

I'm happy for the people who find it helpful and are able to find peace after joining. As for me, I've made plenty of positive strides without religion and I feel no need or desire to be part of one.

 

[telekon]

For the Satanists, I say that God is more complex. God is a culmination of energies, Satan being one of the energies. Ironically you are angry with the Saturnian side of God rather than the Jupiter side, in Roman terms at least. So it goes against what you believe as Saturn and Satan are one and the same.