We will no longer be listing the Samaritan's suicide hotline in any official capacity on this website

[DoNotLet2]

I mean you guys are right about leaving the phone number and I know nothing but I will say it anyway.
Maybe not Samaritan? Maybe another hotline or something? That would still be considered professional, right?

 

[heheb27595]

hotline are nothing but script kiddies and hypocrites.

 

[TAW122]

I agree with @Marquis here, the Samaritans and also the other suicide prevention hotlines don't serve to help people like us here. They are first and foremost out there to prevent suicide at (almost) all costs. From what I see is regardless of what we do here, the outsiders (who don't understand us let alone want to understand us) will always look at us in a negative light as well as try to twist things to suit their agenda and narrative. There is simply no way to win via appeasement. I believe we should stick to our guns (pun intended) and be ready to resist any attempt to censor and suppress us. I don't encourage violence (except self-defense) nor illegal acts, but I would say that anything to make the anti-choice, pro-life people think twice or even lessen their persecution of us is a plus.

 

[Onomotopoeia]

I mean you guys are right about leaving the phone number and I know nothing but I will say it anyway.
Maybe not Samaritan? Maybe another hotline or something? That would still be considered professional, right?

This, really. Look, I think they are all garbage and have tried most but they are not the only organization out there. I think SS can be great for support but some alternatives are better than none.

What about something less official like a link to 7 cups for peer support? @Marquis

For reference

Free Online Therapist & Counseling | 7 Cups

Whether you’re looking for a therapist or just someone to talk to right now during some difficult times, 7 Cups is a place where you can be heard. Start for free today.

www.7cups.com

 

[deadalready]

The war is on.

 

[AllorNothing]

I agree with @Berlin76.

Removing the Samaritans' info seems like a knee-jerk reaction that's ultimately going to do more harm than good for this forum.

This site is being criticized partially because it is "vulnerable people trying to help other vulnerable people". Providing the Samaritan's hotline at the top of the page provided visitors with access to trained volunteers in addition to (not instead of) the support from their peers.

It really doesn't matter if callers ultimately found them helpful or not. Having the info on here certainly helped the image of this forum. Taking it down will achieve the opposite.

As the saying goes, don't cut your nose off to spite your face.

I agree, @Marquis what about taking a day and if you still feel like they shouldn't be on the site, then let the decision stand. Or maybe consider another hotline?

 

[calendulo]

I though samaritans gave food and goods to solve poverty and its consequences. I had that idea in my mind, but I was wrong.
Like an ideologic foundation.
Sounds heavy..........to tackle...and "bury". Forum is not welcomed to the establishment.

I like that idea................I support the choice. A poor support, I know.

And a suggestion, If May I....of course

There will be to show something at the forum cover. If is take off everything about Samaritans Hotline. There will be nothing and must to show any statement or something like that.

My suggestion is any statement that had inside insults, using asterisks; and then I would add a second part deeply political and including a comment about censorship.

 

[jgm63]

I think we should keep as many links, etc, to external help resources as possible.
Not having them makes this site an easier target for those trying to criticise.
It will allow media to report about how "no information is given referring people to places where they can get help".
This will give additional ammunition if they try to take further action.....
There's nothing to be gained by deleting the information.
Based on the "way the world works" currently, I think the correct strategic decision is to keep the information listed.
If anything, we should put the information "front and centre".
We need to act intelligently based on the world we currently live in, for better or worse.....

 

[Berlin76]

I think we should keep as many links, etc, to external help resources as possible.
Not having them makes this site an easier target for those trying to criticise.
It will allow media to report about how "no information is given referring people to places where they can get help".
This will give additional ammunition if they try to take further action.....
There's nothing to be gained by deleting the information.
Based on the "way the world works" currently, I think the correct strategic decision is to keep the information listed.
If anything, we should put the information "front and centre".
We need to act intelligently based on the world we currently live in, for better or worse.....

Precisely what i am thinking

 

[arelia]

As it is clear from the BBC article, they only seek to destroy and censor this site.

As a result of the recent comments given to the BBC by their spokesman; We will no longer be including the hotline in any official capacity on this website.

The excerpt in question is listed below:

View attachment 27049

We will no longer be officially supporting or endorsing any suicide hotlines or chats. Proceed with your own risk if you do decide to go this route.

We will always support those that recover and we'll offer as much support as we can, don't mistake this decision with not caring, as we do, but organizations that seek to censor information go against the core values of this forum.

Sincerely,
Marquis

I can understand why you've done it but from my perspective I think the phone number should be left up. The Samaritans can help people who are considering an impulse suicide or are at their wits end and I don't like the idea of taking that away.
Just because the samaritans rep isn't rational, doesn't mean you should sink to their level. Someone has to be the responsible adult here and it's obviously not them.

 

[Backwood_tilt]

The Samaritans can help people who are considering an impulse suicide

SS users do that every time someone mentions they are desperate or want to pursue an ill-advised method. And we do it without a script, but with actual empathy and compassion since most of us don't suffer from a messiah complex, but instead feel a deep pain in our own lives that helps us relate to one another's suffering. As carina said, we are one big suicide hotline.

The problem here is ideological. Most of society and mainstream culture believes places like SS should not exist, because the idea of choosing to end your own life is antithetical to how most people are taught to live. For many of us, our pain and individual experiences teach us otherwise. Others just refuse to accept this viewpoint.

You don't win a war of ideology by making concessions and ceding ground to your enemies. You win a war of ideology by consistently justifying the logic of your own ideology and reshaping the mainstream consciousness. To that end, we have no reason to bolster the visibility and profile of organizations fundamentally opposed to SS's existence and purpose.

 

[-Link-]

There are some good arguments in favour of putting it back.

I'd support the site's management either way.

 

[HopeDiesLast]

The problem here is ideological. Most of society and mainstream culture believes places like SS should not exist, because the idea of choosing to end your own life is antithetical to how most people are taught to live. For many of us, our pain and individual experiences teach us otherwise. Others just refuse to accept this viewpoint.

You don't win a war of ideology by making concessions and ceding ground to your enemies. You win a war of ideology by consistently justifying the logic of your own ideology and reshaping the mainstream consciousness. To that end, we have no reason to bolster the visibility and profile of organizations fundamentally opposed to SS's existence and purpose.

I get where you are coming from...but are we really fighting a "war of ideology" here? Is our collective goal to convert the masses to a pro-choice ideology (likely never going to happen) or is our immediate goal to protect this forum from censorship?

Personally, I don't really care to "reshape the mainstream consciousness" regarding suicide (life is challenging enough without such lofty goals). My primary concern is to protect this forum and keep it accessible to all of us. To that end, we may have to make some "concessions".

I assume there was a good reason why the hotline info and the recovery section were added. Are those reasons no longer valid?

 

[Carina]

Look at it this way, if someone comes here from the outside, they got numerous links from search engines recommending suicide hotline numbers in their area to call. They had to bypass those to come here. There are so many different numbers, that really "call EMS/go to an ER" would cover it for probably many places because if talking helped, they would've called the numbers they bypassed to click the other links.

The people think the website shouldn't exist. It wouldn't matter if everything on this site was a counseling link, phone number, "OMG OMG OMG PLEASE DON'T DO IT!!!!!" in flashing lights all over--if it had a single link or word that said "it's ok" they'd target it and blame it It's not the links or resources, it's the ideological differences. Don't believe that? Was the site targeted before the past 72 hours? yes? We had the number up then--guess it did nothing. Only having the number up was listing a resource that is actively targeting the site for shutdown. It's like fish supporting cats for protection.

 

[jgm63]

SS users do that every time someone mentions they are desperate or want to pursue an ill-advised method. And we do it without a script, but with actual empathy and compassion since most of us don't suffer from a messiah complex, but instead feel a deep pain in our own lives that helps us relate to one another's suffering. As carina said, we are one big suicide hotline.

The problem here is ideological. Most of society and mainstream culture believes places like SS should not exist, because the idea of choosing to end your own life is antithetical to how most people are taught to live. For many of us, our pain and individual experiences teach us otherwise. Others just refuse to accept this viewpoint.

You don't win a war of ideology by making concessions and ceding ground to your enemies. You win a war of ideology by consistently justifying the logic of your own ideology and reshaping the mainstream consciousness. To that end, we have no reason to bolster the visibility and profile of organizations fundamentally opposed to SS's existence and purpose.

I don't think trying to "fight the system" will achieve anything.

I believe a large global "wipeout" will eventually achieve that, but that's obviously a separate lengthy and complex discussion. If you wanted to read more about that, then see spoiler below.
However, let's not discuss that on this thread (please start a new thread if you want to talk about that).

Spoiler: statements/end

Barry Long Foundation International

(runs over several pages..... hit "Continues" links at end of each page)

In the meantime, I personally think we should keep as many links, etc, to external help resources as possible, as explained in my post above...

Look at it this way, if someone comes here from the outside, they got numerous links from search engines recommending suicide hotline numbers in their area to call. They had to bypass those to come here. There are so many different numbers, that really "call EMS/go to an ER" would cover it for probably many places because if talking helped, they would've called the numbers they bypassed to click the other links.

The people think the website shouldn't exist. It wouldn't matter if everything on this site was a counseling link, phone number, "OMG OMG OMG PLEASE DON'T DO IT!!!!!" in flashing lights all over--if it had a single link or word that said "it's ok" they'd target it and blame it It's not the links or resources, it's the ideological differences. Don't believe that? Was the site targeted before the past 72 hours? yes? We had the number up then--guess it did nothing. Only having the number up was listing a resource that is actively targeting the site for shutdown. It's like fish supporting cats for protection.

I don't agree at all with this.
If this website had a lot of highly visible disclaimers, and links to external help resources, etc, then it's not as easy to criticise it, in my view.

 

[HopeDiesLast]

Look at it this way, if someone comes here from the outside, they got numerous links from search engines recommending suicide hotline numbers in their area to call. They had to bypass those to come here. There are so many different numbers, that really "call EMS/go to an ER" would cover it for probably many places because if talking helped, they would've called the numbers they bypassed to click the other links.

The people think the website shouldn't exist. It wouldn't matter if everything on this site was a counseling link, phone number, "OMG OMG OMG PLEASE DON'T DO IT!!!!!" in flashing lights all over--if it had a single link or word that said "it's ok" they'd target it and blame it It's not the links or resources, it's the ideological differences. Don't believe that? Was the site targeted before the past 72 hours? yes? We had the number up then--guess it did nothing. Only having the number up was listing a resource that is actively targeting the site for shutdown. It's like fish supporting cats for protection.

Has the site been "targeted" before? Sure. But has it been shut down? No. Let's try to keep it that way.

This forum will never be considered mainstream, popular or socially acceptable. It doesn't have to be. It just needs to stay within the parameters of legally protected speech.

 

[Carina]

Has the site been "targeted" before? Sure. But has it been shut down? No. Let's try to keep it that way.

This forum will never be considered mainstream, popular or socially acceptable. It doesn't have to be. It just needs to stay within the parameters of legally protected speech.

That's why we don't tell people what to do... or from the rules:
"The information offered on this site is for educational purposes only. We do not encourage, promote, advise, nor aid suicide in any way or form. The way you use the information provided on this website is fully and solely your responsibility, and you should be aware of the laws in your own country. You must be over 18 years old to use this site. "

 

[ctbUniquectb]

lol fuck intervention hotlines

Samaritans and also the other suicide prevention hotlines don't serve to help people like us here. They are first and foremost out there to prevent suicide at (almost) all costs.

Yeah I mean some random street criminal stole my friend's phone, learned I want to die and got police to raid my house twice, alienating all the neighbors and most of my few friends. How is that supposed to improve my mood?

 

[Letmego. Please]

If the reason for taking their number off is purely down to that article then the reaction is childish at best, honestly the success as such of this site will have always brought unwanted attention & it will never go away, specially as more folk will now be topping themselves leaving traces of this place on there phones or computers. So how does it help us or anyone to remove a phone number just because you think they have dissed you.

And yep you can jump on me as much as you want but sometimes making 'info' about methods so easily available to impulsive folk will cause deaths that otherwise would not have happened. And no I will not be bothering to argue with anyone about my own feelings as an old bugger.

If you really want the moral high ground then put the number back up.

 

[M]

I agree with @Berlin76.

Removing the Samaritans' info seems like a knee-jerk reaction that's ultimately going to do more harm than good for this forum.

This site is being criticized partially because it is "vulnerable people trying to help other vulnerable people". Providing the Samaritan's hotline at the top of the page provided visitors with access to trained volunteers in addition to (not instead of) the support from their peers.

It really doesn't matter if callers ultimately found them helpful or not. Having the info on here certainly helped the image of this forum. Taking it down will achieve the opposite.

As the saying goes, don't cut your nose off to spite your face.

I don't like to give those that are actively working to take us down or suppress this site any oxygen. It doesn't make much sense. If I can find a hotline from an organization that isn't actively trying to suppress us; I would be happy to put that up but we're not going to leave a number or email up to an organization that is working against us. If they want to work with us again then they're going to have to talk to us and retract whatever they said to the BBC first.

Hell, we may just start our own hotline or support chat if I can't find an alternative.

 

[Hennessy]

I not very often use strong language, but now I feel I must:

Hello, Samaritans; GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[WhiteDespair]

I don't like to give those that are actively working to take us down or suppress this site any oxygen. It doesn't make much sense. If I can find a hotline from an organization that isn't actively trying to suppress us; I would be happy to put that up but we're not going to leave a number or email up to an organization that is working against us. If they want to work with us again then they're going to have to talk to us and retract whatever they said to the BBC first.

Hell, we may just start our own hotline or support chat if I can't find an alternative.

Very cool.

For anyone interested a main lesson of this is: Never talk to the media.

 

[Berlin76]

I don't like to give those that are actively working to take us down or suppress this site any oxygen. It doesn't make much sense. If I can find a hotline from an organization that isn't actively trying to suppress us; I would be happy to put that up but we're not going to leave a number or email up to an organization that is working against us. If they want to work with us again then they're going to have to talk to us and retract whatever they said to the BBC first.

Hell, we may just start our own hotline or support chat if I can't find an alternative.

.
At least put a number up or a support site.
The thing governments and official organizations like to see here, is a option and also info on where to get professional help. That is what is important for further conflicts and to avoid them pointing fingers about this.

 

[HopeDiesLast]

I don't like to give those that are actively working to take us down or suppress this site any oxygen. It doesn't make much sense. If I can find a hotline from an organization that isn't actively trying to suppress us; I would be happy to put that up but we're not going to leave a number or email up to an organization that is working against us. If they want to work with us again then they're going to have to talk to us and retract whatever they said to the BBC first.

Hell, we may just start our own hotline or support chat if I can't find an alternative.

The way I see it, the Samaritans don't depend on us for oxygen. But they may very well be in a position to help snuff us out altogether. I'm all for finding an alternative to their hotline, but until that happens I would leave their number up. Keep in mind, the crucial time is RIGHT NOW. The BBC documentary just aired, and the coroner's report has been released. This forum is probably under the most scrutiny it's ever been. We expect society to treat us like reasonable, rational adults who can be trusted to make decisions about their own lives? We may have to act as such.

This is the last post I'm going to make on this subject. Obviously it is your decision to make. I understand this forum is your "baby". I'm simply cautioning you not to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

 

[Deleted member 4993]

Jacqui Morrissey was a disgrace and failed to highlight the more important issues > Austerity, homelessness, poverty, cuts to Services, etc. Afraid to rattle cages. Another mouthpiece from the top of the tree while all those below do the work voluntarily.

Even so I feel we are better than people like her and proved it by offering support to others by listing the help details.

 

[AllorNothing]

I don't like to give those that are actively working to take us down or suppress this site any oxygen. It doesn't make much sense. If I can find a hotline from an organization that isn't actively trying to suppress us; I would be happy to put that up but we're not going to leave a number or email up to an organization that is working against us. If they want to work with us again then they're going to have to talk to us and retract whatever they said to the BBC first.

Hell, we may just start our own hotline or support chat if I can't find an alternative.

Even better yet, we can have a mega-list with various different sources

Here are a few website that have a collection of different hotline/crisis support lines broken down by nation

• List of hotlines in the UK:
  • http://worldhelplines.org/uk.html#Suicide
• List of hotlines in the US:
  • http://www.suicide.org/suicide-hotlines.html
  • National Hotline: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/
• List of hotlines in various nations:
  • http://www.suicide.org/international-suicide-hotlines.html
  • https://www.buddy-project.org/hotlines
• Miscellaneous
  • Suicide Prevention Chat : https://www.suicidestop.com/suicide_prevention_chat_online.html
  • Crisis Support Texting (North American, UK): https://www.crisistextline.org/

 

[Jean4]

Even better yet, we can have a mega-list with various different sources

Here are a few website that have a collection of different hotline/crisis support lines broken down by nation

• List of hotlines in the UK:
  • http://worldhelplines.org/uk.html#Suicide
• List of hotlines in the US:
  • http://www.suicide.org/suicide-hotlines.html
  • National Hotline: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/
• List of hotlines in various nations:
  • http://www.suicide.org/international-suicide-hotlines.html
  • https://www.buddy-project.org/hotlines
• Miscellaneous
  • Suicide Prevention Chat : https://www.suicidestop.com/suicide_prevention_chat_online.html
  • Crisis Support Texting (North American, UK): https://www.crisistextline.org/

I do find it interesting that we are concentrating on the UK and the UK is causing problems and may want to shut us down.

UK pro lifers. I am from the USA. Many others are also not from the UK. You are overstepping boundaries.

Just a suggestion. Being in the USA, I had Donald Trump on my ass. He tried to shut down something I do on the web (it isn't a forum.).

I moved my servers to Mauritius. He can't touch me. If you haven't already done so and if your server is UK based, move it out. They can't touch you or shut down a site whose server is in a different county.

I get threatened all the time by the Government and am on their hit list. I laugh. Legally they can do nothing. They also can't shut me down.

 

[TAW122]

SS users do that every time someone mentions they are desperate or want to pursue an ill-advised method. And we do it without a script, but with actual empathy and compassion since most of us don't suffer from a messiah complex, but instead feel a deep pain in our own lives that helps us relate to one another's suffering. As carina said, we are one big suicide hotline.

The problem here is ideological. Most of society and mainstream culture believes places like SS should not exist, because the idea of choosing to end your own life is antithetical to how most people are taught to live. For many of us, our pain and individual experiences teach us otherwise. Others just refuse to accept this viewpoint.

You don't win a war of ideology by making concessions and ceding ground to your enemies. You win a war of ideology by consistently justifying the logic of your own ideology and reshaping the mainstream consciousness. To that end, we have no reason to bolster the visibility and profile of organizations fundamentally opposed to SS's existence and purpose.

Yes, I have seen this as well which is much better than the usual platitudes provided by most hotlines and general populace out in the world. Society and mainstream culture just wish to live in delusions and that's fine for them, good for them, but not acceptable for them to force their viewpoints and will on us through threats, threats of force, forced intervention/treatment, and/or guilt and shame tactics. In fact, I believe most of us here are more realistic and practical (and more rational) than most people in mainstream society. Absolutely agree with your last paragraph and I too, am standing my ground when it comes to freedom of choice to live or die, the right to choose between life or death. So while I'm still around (until the day I CTB), I will continue supporting for the right and choice to die. Also before I CTB, I also plan to pass the torch and any ideas that I have to help this community as well as (possibly) push towards advancing legislation that will someday allow people to choose whether they wish to live or die.

Hell, we may just start our own hotline or support chat if I can't find an alternative.

That actually might be a good idea, especially from people who actually truly understands us on here. Also, without the risk of involuntary intervention for discussing suicide or plans as well as one free of preaching, platitudes, pro-life spiel, patronizing and condescending attitudes, and free of guilt and shame tactics. Furthermore, for those who wish to live, they are then directed towards recovery efforts, or those who are uncertain are given support and understanding.

 

[Berlin76]

Even better yet, we can have a mega-list with various different sources

Here are a few website that have a collection of different hotline/crisis support lines broken down by nation

• List of hotlines in the UK:
  • http://worldhelplines.org/uk.html#Suicide
• List of hotlines in the US:
  • http://www.suicide.org/suicide-hotlines.html
  • National Hotline: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/
• List of hotlines in various nations:
  • http://www.suicide.org/international-suicide-hotlines.html
  • https://www.buddy-project.org/hotlines
• Miscellaneous
  • Suicide Prevention Chat : https://www.suicidestop.com/suicide_prevention_chat_online.html
  • Crisis Support Texting (North American, UK): https://www.crisistextline.org/

Can you take that post and make it into a tread in the recovery section

 

[Majin K.]

Life is neither a gift nor is it inherently positive. People are inevitably going to suffer and not everyone can be happy. Life simply isn't for everyone. Prolonging other people's suffering and telling them empty lies is anything but morally correct. If society wants to stop people from acquiring the information on how to die a humane death, then so be it. I could always just throw myself in front of a train and psychologically damage a train driver for years to come. We're apparently not allowed to kill ourselves unless it involves a lot of pain and gore. Want me to ram a knife in my throat or something instead of finding information on painless methods? Moral bankruptcy at it's finest.