I am not sure how much I support antinatalism. I was very in favor of spreading that philosophy for a long time in the past. But I was scared that others might perceive me as resentful or bitter which I was at that time. I have become more indifferent to it in the mean time. I am not sure what is the "right" philosophy. I don't want to interfere too much in other people's life and let them make their own personal decisions. However some time ago my sister opened up to me that she wants to procreate. She and her boyfriend came both from a family with severe mental health issues. And I worried a lot about her wish to procreate. In her position in this scenario this would have had a devastating outcome. I think her boyfriend ended their relationship because she lost parts of her sanity. The end of her relationship was pretty upsetting however I am glad that child won't come into the world presumably. I once told her that I don't think it would be a good idea to procreate in these circumstances. I am already planning my suicide and it is likely suicide has a genetic component. I always worried my suicide could affect that child badly. I was convinced to keep distanced to them. However I did not interfere in any way. I can remember I subconciously pressured one friend of mine into antinatalism. And gave him a guilty conscience. The story is complicated but when I realized my behavior this was a point where I distanced myself of that philosophy.
That is a long introduction. I want to show that I have to a certain degree sympathy for antinatalism and I am very very sure that I will never want to procreate. Not even adopting children. I am way too crippled mentally and I am scared this could spil over.
I have the feeling many people don't understand the difference between antinatalism and promortalism. As I said I have sympathy for antinatalism but I never had sympathy for promortalism. Some use these two words as synonyms which annoys me. Because for me there is a huge difference.
I will use some defintions of the internet:
"Antinatalism is a philosophical and ethical stance against human reproduction, rooted in harm reduction and rational consideration for future life. Antinatalism regards the implications that procreation has, both for humans, other animals, and the natural world. Antinatalists consider intentional human reproduction (besides exceptions related to force) an irreversible, unnecessary, indefensible, and enduring form of harm, regardless of circumstances, situations, or consciousness in living."
"Promortalism is a philosophical position and social movement that assigns a positive value to death. (i.e. Promortalists believe that the morally best thing to do would be to end suffering by ending our own lives. Promortalists say that the only thing that keeps most of them from killing themselves is the lack of willpower)"
Another one on promortalism: "Promortalism, also known as hyphenated form pro-mortalism, is a philosophical position for any sentient being, it is always the best to die as soon as possible."
Personally I have the feeling promortalism is kind of insane. There will be people who will fiercely disagre with me. I have healthy friends who enjoy life. They like to live, they are scared of death. When I explained them antinatalism some were interested and agreed on some stances. But my interaction of most other people show me if they internalized promortalism it would be extremely counterproductive for them to adopt a promortalist world view. I am now suicidal since a decade. I know which hell that is. Many many battle their suicidal thoughts over years before they feel with their back completely against the wall. I think most people with a somewhat decent life adopting promortalism could decrease their life quality a lot. I mean I ruminate about suicide since a decade. When I was pretty young I thought suicide was easy. It is the completely the opposite. The SI, the sorrows and the daily torment of thinking about it. People with a good life in my opinion should dodge such a mindset. It is extremely crippling to be in my position. It is a very slow processes approaching the seemingly inevitable. All the anxiety and all the fears. About the how?When? Why? Possible damage? The desperation. Being torn apart between hope and giving up. For me it is torment to face such an existential decision.
This is one reason why I think promortalism is probably not the best for one's own well-being. I have the feeling in some ways they consider dying as way too easy in that philosophy. Dying is often accompanied with fears and pain. So aiming for death is often accompanied with dread and misery. So dying is not really something which should be a goal for all people. For me such a notion is insane. These people would suffer unnecesssarily if they adopted such a philosphy.
There are other implications I disagree with. If it was the best thing for all people to die as soon as possible this would open the door to justify mudering people. I mean it was the best for them one could justify it morally. Such an argument (in another context) made me being more careful to apply my moral system to other people. Maybe I am the one who is wrong and other people are right.
Moreover promoratlism implies being pro-suicide usually. I am clearly not pro-suicide. I am suicidal since a very long time and I know how tormening it is to have those thoughts. If people have the choice to dodge all the pain that comes along with debating one's own suicide they should stay away from it. It is hell on earth. Furthermore it is for me absurd to pretend that there are not at least some people who enjoy life. Many people are struggling and sometimes people struggle who you never thought they never were struggling. Though I met many healthy young people who were scared of dying. They said they love life and enjoy life. For me it is aburd to say these people would not exist. In some way it makes my pain less valid. This is my perception. If all people would be as desperate as me my life would be average. (and the comparison with average people would be less painful). Though I don't consider this the truth. Our pain is so extremely unfair for example because the people who abused us often have way better life quality than us. I know that some of my bullies have pretty good life quality. They enjoy their life while they destroyed mine. To pretend these people were suffering does not reflect my perception. Life would be way more just if this was the true. The sad truth is: Many people who abused other people have way too often a good life quality for example because they are in a powerful position where they are protected of punishment. They can enjoy life whereas many of us suffer because of the abuse daily.
I wanted to demonstrate by that. Yes there are people who actually enjoy living. They are not in severe pain. So argumenting their death would be preferable for them seems illogical for me.
What is your opinion on it?
That is a long introduction. I want to show that I have to a certain degree sympathy for antinatalism and I am very very sure that I will never want to procreate. Not even adopting children. I am way too crippled mentally and I am scared this could spil over.
I have the feeling many people don't understand the difference between antinatalism and promortalism. As I said I have sympathy for antinatalism but I never had sympathy for promortalism. Some use these two words as synonyms which annoys me. Because for me there is a huge difference.
I will use some defintions of the internet:
"Antinatalism is a philosophical and ethical stance against human reproduction, rooted in harm reduction and rational consideration for future life. Antinatalism regards the implications that procreation has, both for humans, other animals, and the natural world. Antinatalists consider intentional human reproduction (besides exceptions related to force) an irreversible, unnecessary, indefensible, and enduring form of harm, regardless of circumstances, situations, or consciousness in living."
"Promortalism is a philosophical position and social movement that assigns a positive value to death. (i.e. Promortalists believe that the morally best thing to do would be to end suffering by ending our own lives. Promortalists say that the only thing that keeps most of them from killing themselves is the lack of willpower)"
Another one on promortalism: "Promortalism, also known as hyphenated form pro-mortalism, is a philosophical position for any sentient being, it is always the best to die as soon as possible."
Personally I have the feeling promortalism is kind of insane. There will be people who will fiercely disagre with me. I have healthy friends who enjoy life. They like to live, they are scared of death. When I explained them antinatalism some were interested and agreed on some stances. But my interaction of most other people show me if they internalized promortalism it would be extremely counterproductive for them to adopt a promortalist world view. I am now suicidal since a decade. I know which hell that is. Many many battle their suicidal thoughts over years before they feel with their back completely against the wall. I think most people with a somewhat decent life adopting promortalism could decrease their life quality a lot. I mean I ruminate about suicide since a decade. When I was pretty young I thought suicide was easy. It is the completely the opposite. The SI, the sorrows and the daily torment of thinking about it. People with a good life in my opinion should dodge such a mindset. It is extremely crippling to be in my position. It is a very slow processes approaching the seemingly inevitable. All the anxiety and all the fears. About the how?When? Why? Possible damage? The desperation. Being torn apart between hope and giving up. For me it is torment to face such an existential decision.
This is one reason why I think promortalism is probably not the best for one's own well-being. I have the feeling in some ways they consider dying as way too easy in that philosophy. Dying is often accompanied with fears and pain. So aiming for death is often accompanied with dread and misery. So dying is not really something which should be a goal for all people. For me such a notion is insane. These people would suffer unnecesssarily if they adopted such a philosphy.
There are other implications I disagree with. If it was the best thing for all people to die as soon as possible this would open the door to justify mudering people. I mean it was the best for them one could justify it morally. Such an argument (in another context) made me being more careful to apply my moral system to other people. Maybe I am the one who is wrong and other people are right.
Moreover promoratlism implies being pro-suicide usually. I am clearly not pro-suicide. I am suicidal since a very long time and I know how tormening it is to have those thoughts. If people have the choice to dodge all the pain that comes along with debating one's own suicide they should stay away from it. It is hell on earth. Furthermore it is for me absurd to pretend that there are not at least some people who enjoy life. Many people are struggling and sometimes people struggle who you never thought they never were struggling. Though I met many healthy young people who were scared of dying. They said they love life and enjoy life. For me it is aburd to say these people would not exist. In some way it makes my pain less valid. This is my perception. If all people would be as desperate as me my life would be average. (and the comparison with average people would be less painful). Though I don't consider this the truth. Our pain is so extremely unfair for example because the people who abused us often have way better life quality than us. I know that some of my bullies have pretty good life quality. They enjoy their life while they destroyed mine. To pretend these people were suffering does not reflect my perception. Life would be way more just if this was the true. The sad truth is: Many people who abused other people have way too often a good life quality for example because they are in a powerful position where they are protected of punishment. They can enjoy life whereas many of us suffer because of the abuse daily.
I wanted to demonstrate by that. Yes there are people who actually enjoy living. They are not in severe pain. So argumenting their death would be preferable for them seems illogical for me.
What is your opinion on it?
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